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History, Reference, Research, and GrogTalk => Military (and other) History => Topic started by: BanzaiCat on October 04, 2013, 08:12:07 AM

Title: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 04, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278

Quote
Vo Nguyen Giap, the Vietnamese general who masterminded victories against France and the US, has died aged 102.

His defeat of French forces at Dien Bien Phu in 1953 made him the first military commander to defeat a major Western power in Asia.

He went on to oversee the Tet Offensive against American forces in 1968, often cited as one of the factors that led to the Americans' withdrawal.

Gen Giap also published a number of works on military strategy.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Martok on October 04, 2013, 08:15:23 AM
Wow.  I didn't realize the old bastard was still alive. 

Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 04, 2013, 08:24:51 AM
Agree with Martok... File that one under "Holy shit!" 
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: LongBlade on October 04, 2013, 08:52:56 AM
Hmmm.

I think I'll file it under: See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 04, 2013, 08:57:25 AM
he may have been the enemy but he certainly has his shit together.
Title: Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, Who Ousted US From Vietnam, Is Dead.
Post by: Dolan50 on October 04, 2013, 09:56:23 AM
Vo Nguyen Giap, the relentless and charismatic North Vietnamese general whose battlefield victory at Dien Bien Phu drove France out of Vietnam and whose tenacious resistance to the United States in a long and costly war there and eventually sapped America’s political will to fight, died on Friday in Hanoi. He was believed to be 102.
Title: Re: Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, Who Ousted US From Vietnam, Is Dead.
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
I am assuming he also fought the Japanese before the French. Would be interesting to pick his brain.
Title: Giap Dead at 102.
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 04, 2013, 12:50:50 PM
Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap has passed.  RIP.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/world/asia/vietnam-general-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/world/asia/vietnam-general-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 04, 2013, 12:57:53 PM
merging multiple topics - moving to Current Events for now
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 04, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
so weve got Tom Clancy and Giap so far.

whos gonna be #3?
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: mirth on October 04, 2013, 02:46:53 PM
Me, if my weekend goes according to plan :P
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 04, 2013, 02:50:49 PM
so, how is the girlfriend?
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Sounds like she's awesome :)
Title: Gen. Giap Dies
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 04, 2013, 03:27:15 PM
Just posting this topic to mess with with Brant. Yay!
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: LongBlade on October 04, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
Sounds like she's awesome :)

He's got the best of both worlds.

And I have a music vid for that, but I love you guys too much to post Hannah Montana.
Title: Re: Gen. Giap Dies
Post by: LongBlade on October 04, 2013, 03:31:54 PM
For the record, I hold the record on ninjaing the same thread six times.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Bison on October 04, 2013, 03:32:53 PM
Hmm...I never knew we celebrated men who were directly responsible for the death for thousands of Americans. 
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: GDS_Starfury on October 04, 2013, 03:38:30 PM
do I like him, no.
but I can respect the fact that the guy re-wrote the book on asymmetrical warfare.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: LongBlade on October 04, 2013, 03:43:16 PM
Hmm...I never knew we celebrated men who were directly responsible for the death for thousands of Americans.

For the record, I thought my reaction was clearly not a celebration.

Hannah Montana was for Mirth.

For Giap I'd have to think of something else. Maybe Elvis Costello's Tramp the Dirt Down or something. That would be a nice irony.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 03:47:06 PM
It's the same thing as studying Japanese or German tactics from WWII. Study them from a technical standpoint, etc. Doesn't mean we're joining the Vietnamese Army.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: bob48 on October 04, 2013, 03:49:25 PM
^+1

I agree with Gussy on that.
Title: Re: Gen. Giap Dies
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
HA
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Bison on October 04, 2013, 03:57:12 PM
I can respect the fact that the guy re-wrote the book on asymmetrical warfare.

The notion that his asymmetrical warfare was alone responsible for the outcome of Vietnam is to ignore major aspects of media, political, and military handicaps self imposed upon American forces that were a much more direct impact to the long term outcome of the conflict.

This is not to say that his theories are not worth study or consideration.  It is prudent to study them.  They were in many ways effective and also had shortfalls but they do give insight to the current and future implementations of asymmetrical warfare. 
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Bison on October 04, 2013, 04:02:19 PM
It's the same thing as studying Japanese or German tactics from WWII. Study them from a technical standpoint, etc. Doesn't mean we're joining the Vietnamese Army.

No I understand Gus.  I'm just a little bit more than pissed off with the whole WW2 Memorial and Normandy Beach cemetery shutdowns and disrespect shown to those Veterans for no reason other than political theater.  Carry on Gentlemen.  My annoyance is with something else entirely.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 04:10:40 PM
No problem. I know where you're coming from.

Additionally vets in my family were never able to see one time enemies as anything but enemies...Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.

I know that's not exactly where you're coming from but, well...it's a sensitive subject.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: mirth on October 04, 2013, 04:41:01 PM
It pleases me that we can mix a Hannah Montana reference into a thread on General Giap.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Gusington on October 04, 2013, 05:17:26 PM
It flowed naturally. Good job by everyone involved.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: LongBlade on October 04, 2013, 05:28:54 PM
It pleases me that we can mix a Hannah Montana reference into a thread on General Giap.

And now that she's grow up we can discuss her boobs.

Frankly, she should stick to her boobs - and keep those in private. Her public performance as both a singer and a sex object are both failures.

But at least we've covered the Grogheads basics now.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 04, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
In a tweet (https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/386126088243404800), Senator McCain described Gen Giap as "a brilliant military strategist who once told me that we were an honourable enemy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278)
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: mirth on October 04, 2013, 06:31:09 PM
In a tweet (https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/386126088243404800), Senator McCain described Gen Giap as "a brilliant military strategist who once told me that we were an honourable enemy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24402278)

Okay. That's something coming from McCain.
Title: Re: Giap Dead at 102.
Post by: pawelj on October 08, 2013, 06:56:48 AM
Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap has passed.  RIP.

RIP? Seriously?
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 08, 2013, 07:06:07 AM
From Globalsecurity.org (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/vietnam/vo-nguyen-giap.htm)

Quote
Giap's nearly fatal mistake in the anti-French war was the too-early challenge of French forces in open battles during the first half of 1951. In three battles, the Viet-minh were defeated each time and Giap almost lost his position as Viet-minh commander in chief. The Viet-minh immediately went back to stage II - smaller battles on their own terms in scattered areas.

The basis of this fame is Giap's leadership of the Viet Minh in their victory over the French in the Indochina War. Giap's fame as a tactician and strategist were exaggerated, that neither his tactics nor his strategies were new or imaginative. Giap's greatest ability was an organizer of the masses in a total effort behind the war. Giap successfully combined the roles of civil organizer, politician and battlefield leader in achieving his victory over the French.

simple word replacement
Quote
Washington's nearly fatal mistake in the anti-British war was the too-early challenge of British forces in open battles during the first half of 1777. In three battles, the Colonials were defeated each time and Washington almost lost his position as Colonials commander in chief. The Colonials immediately went back to stage II - smaller battles on their own terms in scattered areas.

The basis of this fame is Washington's leadership of the Colonials in their victory over the British in the AWI. Washington's fame as a tactician and strategist were exaggerated, that neither his tactics nor his strategies were new or imaginative. Washington's greatest ability was an organizer of the masses in a total effort behind the war. Washington successfully combined the roles of civil organizer, politician and battlefield leader in achieving his victory over the British.

I'm with Star - I can stand that the bastard won, but I can appreciate the influence he had.
Title: Re: Vietnam's General Vo Nguyen Giap dies
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 08, 2013, 08:19:51 AM
Nguyen is this thread going to get some puns in it? Viet as it may, I think I'll go to a Pho restaurant today for some Viet-Noms.