Matrix World in Flames

[mirth]

So some good came out of it

[BanzaiCat]

Better someone else do it than me.

When you invest 80 hours of your time in developing something that massive, and you get paid a flat rate, and it comes out to a rate per hour that's below what I was making in 1993...no. My free time was much more valuable to me.

Course I could have handled it better, but oh well. That was ten years ago.

[Sir Slash]

Once upon a time, I thought I'd found my True Love in this game. Then I realized she was just a beautiful picture posted on a website not a real girl at all. The pain is still very real to me and I will never let her convince me to risk my heart again that she has changed.     Plus she's too damned expensive.

[JudgeDredd]

Better someone else do it than me.

When you invest 80 hours of your time in developing something that massive, and you get paid a flat rate, and it comes out to a rate per hour that's below what I was making in 1993...no. My free time was much more valuable to me.

Course I could have handled it better, but oh well. That was ten years ago.

Did you write the manuals for WiF? If so you should be proud - they were apparently very well received.

As for payment for them - you'll have to blame us gamers. We're the ones that want nice big manuals at low cost.

[BanzaiCat]

Nope, I didn't. It's a long story - I was supposed to, but that was the breaking point for me. I'd already done about a dozen at that point for games leading up to it...can't recall all of them but it included World at War (both editions), the Harpoon remake, OAW III, Massive Assault, and several others. I think Moby Games has my credits listed but I'm too lazy to check.

As for low cost, that had little to do with my rate. I can't speak poorly of it because that side job came at a time when we desperately needed it, so I have nothing but good things to say/think about Matrix. It just became something whose reward was not worth the effort it would take on my part. By the time this happened I had a better-paying job, thankfully...but this side gig helped bridge the gap big time.

[Zulu1966]

As long as I can play solo and it works I will be happy.

This is precisely the point for me. And frankly even now I have no idea whether it is. I believe I can't and in many ways it is still non functional even from that point of view. Yet matrix are still selling it and at the same exorbitant price. That is my biggest issue.

[spelk]

This surfaced in my Twitter feed:

https://bigbossbattle.com/observation-matrix-world-in-flames/

[RyanE]

Reading this thread got me curious about WiF.  I know nothing about the game, PC or board.  So I decided to take a look at the Matrix forums.  For one thing, there is not much complaining for a game that after four years appears to still be under development.  The one thread where someone was complaining they got ripped off really surprised me because there were a couple people aggressively defending the game.  Are these people just stooges or am I missing something?  Why would someone so aggressively defend a game that appears, from the outside, to have basically ripped off their customers?

On another note, I am stunned that Matrix is involved in something like this.  Forcing people to spend over $100 on hardcover books and then later saying you didn't have to.  It makes no business sense to screw you customers over like that.  Like I said, I am a real outsider on this and really just trying to figure it out.

[JudgeDredd]

The reason there's very little in the way of "complainers" is because they were chased out to make it a nice friendly atmosphere.

The vitriol early on coming from the mouths of defenders of the game - people mostly who are hard core fans of the board game.

I remember one thread with someone complaining about the state of the game etc, etc. and pretty much in a nutshell being told they shouldn't be complaining because buying all the board game stuff would cost hundreds of pounds.

It was ridiculous. Once the early adopters who were pissed off with being ripped off buggered off, it was almost exclusively a haven for people who wanted to pat themselves on the back about being able to play a broken game and "standing by the developer".

And whomever mentioned it earlier (Gus?) Yes - they did say that netplay would be fixed in two weeks. I haven't caught up again, but I'm pretty sure it's still broke.

What really chaps my ass though is that even if it was fixed - and who know because alot of problems were further down the road - the manuals and tutorials ain't worth shit - so it's impossible to pick the game up and learn it. Last I looked the tutorials didn't work.

It should be said - given it's retro look, I love the look of the game. But it's interface is so shit and clunky and no proper documentation to learn the game means your screwed if you buy now.

I could be wrong on the documentation and if I am, I apologise. But I'm certain (last I looked) the tutorials were screwed.

[RyanE]

What I don't understand is Matrix getting a pass on this on the wargaming forums.  I mean people go apoplectic over a $10 game on steam...$150 to participate in a 4+ year early access?  I would have expected Matrix to eat a little humble pie on this.  They should do a few things:

1) Offer full refund on the game at any time up to the game function as advertised
2) Not allow a single customer to be shouted down for complaining.  They should have an entire forum dedicated to people venting
3) Ban guys like warspite for attacking paying customers complaining about the game
4) Have in huge red letters on the buying page that the game doen't function as advertised, buy at your own risk, pr maybe pull it off the store page.

When I saw the screen shots, I thought of this link from the Command forums making fun of UIs...https://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/146784

[ArizonaTank]

Personally I feel this game is an embarrassment along with how Matrix handled it.....really great to see them roll out huge patches 4 YEARS LATER...just goes to show you how far it ever was from release, but yet they released it and never offered any compensation for it.....

I agree with you of course. 

But it is interesting that if they released it unfinished today on Steam, they could call it an "alpha" and everybody would be OK with that. 

There are games that have been in development on Steam for 3-4 years and still in "alpha".

As far as Matrix WiF is concerned...I am still on the sidelines, waiting patiently for the price to rationalize and the development to settle more. 

In the meantime, DDD Game designs hosts a beautiful vassal module for World in Flames.  I haven't actually used it yet, but it is on my list.  I have played around with it, and it looks wonderful and it is free.

http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/

[RyanE]

I agree on the alpha, but for $150 and it wasn't rolled out that way.

[JudgeDredd]

Personally I feel this game is an embarrassment along with how Matrix handled it.....really great to see them roll out huge patches 4 YEARS LATER...just goes to show you how far it ever was from release, but yet they released it and never offered any compensation for it.....

I agree with you of course. 

But it is interesting that if they released it unfinished today on Steam, they could call it an "alpha" and everybody would be OK with that. 

There are games that have been in development on Steam for 3-4 years and still in "alpha".

As far as Matrix WiF is concerned...I am still on the sidelines, waiting patiently for the price to rationalize and the development to settle more. 

In the meantime, DDD Game designs hosts a beautiful vassal module for World in Flames.  I haven't actually used it yet, but it is on my list.  I have played around with it, and it looks wonderful and it is free.

http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/

I agree - but at least you know it's ALPHA. It's about knowing what you're buying into. Not being sold a broken product at full tilt. If you want to buy an ALPHA product at £100 then you can make that choice. But if you're told it's a working game (or will be working in 2 weeks), then that's a different matter. You may choose to wait the 2 weeks.

[Grim.Reaper]

Agree with the others, if sold as alpha that is one thing, but this was marketed as premium finished product.

[Zulu1966]

This surfaced in my Twitter feed:

https://bigbossbattle.com/observation-matrix-world-in-flames/

Thats an interesting article. One thing strikes me above all else - in that (the fact it doesnt work aside) he is talking about the computer game - so how the hell does anyone ever learn how to play the board game - which must be infinitely more complex given everything the computer must be doing...