Author Topic: Ray Rice  (Read 15486 times)

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Offline Marty Ward

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2014, 07:40:58 AM »
If this had been handled up front and he had been given and accepted a year suspension (and said and done all the "right things" during that year), I think he would have been able to come back and the general public would have accepted (ignored) it. It's too late for any of that now.

Nothing to do with excusing Ray Rice's actions but the more that comes out the more you realize that the NFL also really fucked it up.

When I saw the first video of Rice dragging his girlfriend out of the elevator I thought he deserved a 2 game suspension just for the way he pulled her out, even if she just passed out on her own. That is not what you do. It reminded me of a caveman.
Then when he only got 2 games total and Goodell said the punishment fit the incident I figured either she did just pass out or something accidental happened because you KNEW there was a video (it's a casino for christ sake and they film everything) assumed that the NFL had seen the tape and knew exactly what happened.
Then the 2nd tape comes out an Goodell denies that the NFL ever saw it.
Then it comes out that the video had been sent to the NFL and someone watched it and even commented on how horrible it was.
Then it comes out that Rice told Goodell during the investigation that he punched his wife and knocked her out.
How can an organization that has faced so many 'crisis' moments in the past screw this up so bad? They aren't a bunch of dummies there, how could think the video of inside the elevator would not eventually come out and how could they NOT get the video before making the initial decision?
It makes you think they just didn't want to know what really happened.
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Offline mirth

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2014, 07:53:09 AM »
I completely agree about the Goodell and the League totally fucking up on this. And it's a clear indication of how the League has been completely mishandling domestic violence issues for years (along with other major sports which in turn is a reflection of society at large). There are players who will start on Sunday who have done far worse to women than Ray Rice has done, but because none of itwas so vividly captured on video no one noticed or cared very much if they did. I sincerely hope that starts to change now with the level of attention that the Ray Rice case has brought.
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Offline Marty Ward

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2014, 08:30:11 AM »
I completely agree about the Goodell and the League totally fucking up on this. And it's a clear indication of how the League has been completely mishandling domestic violence issues for years (along with other major sports which in turn is a reflection of society at large). There are players who will start on Sunday who have done far worse to women than Ray Rice has done, but because none of itwas so vividly captured on video no one noticed or cared very much if they did. I sincerely hope that starts to change now with the level of attention that the Ray Rice case has brought.

I agree and there is no reason for it. The league owed Rice nothing and had no reason to go easy on him. They could have given a year suspension right off the bat and justified it since you get 4 games for recreational drug use. They totally botched it and deserve all the fallout they get.
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Offline mirth

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #78 on: September 12, 2014, 09:08:05 AM »
Goodell needs to go as well, imho.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

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Offline mirth

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #79 on: September 12, 2014, 09:13:50 AM »
I'd also be happy to see the NFL revisit other domestic violence cases that they've allowed to slide. Pretty sure they could address it under the existing conduct policy, even retroactively. If they do it now with the current level of public scrutiny, I can't see the Player's Association trying to defend abusers of women.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

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Offline Marty Ward

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2014, 09:51:30 AM »
I'd also be happy to see the NFL revisit other domestic violence cases that they've allowed to slide. Pretty sure they could address it under the existing conduct policy, even retroactively. If they do it now with the current level of public scrutiny, I can't see the Player's Association trying to defend abusers of women.

I'm not so sure about retroactively doing things. How far do you go back?
I think they could make all suspensions conditional on the outcome of any legal investigation or if other evidence comes to light before the suspension is filled. If they have a policy in place why do they have to wait for months until a court case is finished. They do their own investigations anyway so what is the purpose of them if they just wait for the courts before doing anything? 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:00:01 AM by Marty Ward »
If it looks like chicken, tastes like chicken, and feels like chicken but Chuck Norris says its beef, then it's beef.

If women had apostrophes instead of periods they would be even more possessive!

Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2014, 10:27:37 AM »
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Offline mirth

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2014, 10:54:48 AM »
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline OJsDad

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2014, 12:34:46 PM »
Just out of curiosity, what is the players union take on all of this.
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Offline MetalDog

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2014, 01:21:24 PM »
They are too busy trying to get Josh Gordon's suspension reduced and giving the NFL blood testing on HGH.  Other than that, I haven't heard anything.  It's my understanding that the union is pretty ineffective.  Not like the MLBPA.
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Offline OJsDad

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2014, 06:35:39 PM »
So, does this mean everyone will want the union president fired also;

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nflpa-expect-to-file-ray-rice-appeal-tuesday-091514?

Quote
NEW YORK   —   
The players' union on Tuesday plans to appeal the indefinite suspension the NFL handed to Ray Rice last week.

NFL Players Association spokesman George Atallah told The Associated Press on Monday "we are expecting to appeal before the deadline on Tuesday night." That deadline is 11:59 p.m. EDT.

Rice originally was suspended two games under the NFL's personal conduct policy for striking his then-fiancee in a hotel elevator. When videotape of that incident was made public and showed Rice punching his now-wife Janay, knocking her unconscious, the Baltimore Ravens released the running back.

Almost immediately after that, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell made Rice's suspension indefinite.

Although he doesn't have a team, Rice remains a member of the NFLPA.

Rice can apply for reinstatement when he convinces Goodell that he is "addressing this issue." Rice can avoid prosecution and a criminal record by completing a pretrial intervention program, a resolution prosecutors said they agreed to after consulting with Janay Rice.

The NFL hired former FBI director Robert Mueller to look into how the league sought and handled evidence in the domestic violence case.
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Offline Arctic Blast

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2014, 08:14:39 PM »
Nope. He's representing the player, which is his job. And honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to release a new policy stating a 6 game suspension for a first offense, and then throwing down an indefinite suspension instead.

Offline OJsDad

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2014, 12:18:41 PM »
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/11544540/nfl-players-take-fight-violence

Quote
Time for players to stand vs. violence
By Johnette Howard
ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- There is little make-believe talk this week that what goes on outside NFL team buildings stays outside the building during this young-but-embattled season.

Giants linebacker Mathias Kiwanuka was at MetLife Stadium on Sunday when a plane towing a banner that read "Goodell Must Go" flew overhead before New York's game against Arizona. Eli Manning says it's hard to ignore the image crises the NFL is fighting when it's on TV day after day.

By the time Kiwanuka, Manning and Victor Cruz -- three of the most thoughtful Giants -- spoke with the media Wednesday afternoon, they didn't pretend they were too deep into preparations for Houston this week to hear how the NFL's major corporate sponsors such as Anheuser-Busch had complained about the league's bungling of its child abuse and domestic violence scandals.


They knew NFL league office remained in full crises-control mode, too, with commissioner Roger Goodell still out of sight. They saw the amended punishments handed out to Ravens running back Ray Rice and Vikings star Adrian Peterson, the consternation that the Panthers' Greg Hardy and the 49ers' Ray McDonald are attracting for not being immediately benched. They agreed little had been handled correctly.

But there is still a missing piece to this story, too, you know. And Kiwanuka, Manning and Cruz all landed upon it independently as each of them stood by his locker Wednesday, saying some things that haven't been said enough.

What is stopping NFL players themselves from carrying the fight against domestic violence in their ranks?

What is the responsibility of players themselves to respond to the league's poor record on domestic abuse rather than leave it to sponsors or the league?

Why hasn't there been a unified, forceful -- even imaginative -- initiative undertaken by the players' association as a group, especially since player after player has complained how the many good guys are being tarred by the actions of a few?

Said Kiwanuka: "Speaking as a member of the players' association, you want the league to handle [these cases] right. You want them to get it right the first time. You want to get all the facts first. But if someone does something wrong, then they should take their punishment like a man. ... A few cases like this ruin 100 good deeds that are going on every week."

Added Manning: "These are serious issues that we've got to make sure don't happen and we can't accept from players, from teammates. We don't like it when the NFL gets a black eye on anything. As players, we've got to be aware of what's going on. ... Be good citizens in the community."


“The reason to do it isn't because of how public opinion is running now, because what happens when public opinion goes away? That only creates cynicism. The reason for players to do it is because it's right.

”Across the room, Cruz said: "Players have to do a good job of keeping order. ... It's up to leaders of each team to keep teammates in check. ... Player to player."

That's a stronger, more proactive personal-responsibility message than union president Eric Winston embraced earlier this week, when he said that the NFLPA is ready to sit down with the league if the NFL wants to discuss what to do about domestic violence.

Why does the union need an invitation?

Why not have NFL players own this issue rather than continue to let the issue demonize them?

As Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter pointedly asked on television Sunday, sometimes amid tears as he talked about how violence against women has touched his own family: Why are the vast majority of players, who do nothing illegal, surrendering power so easily to the likes of Rice or Peterson, the minority that does behave badly? Especially when, as Manning said, learning the details of how the Vikings' Peterson hit his 4-year-old son with a switch "make you just want to go home and hug your own child."

"I saw Cris Carter speak," Kiwanuka said, "and you can see why someone who experienced that in his life would want to cry over this. ... I agree with him."

Kiwanuka also agrees that if a young man with ALS can spark a recent national movement by coming up with a fundraising idea like the Ice Bucket Challenge, and the NFL players can get so demonstrably behind the work the league does for breast cancer awareness, there's nothing stopping the NFLPA from, say, independently adopting the fight against domestic violence as their own cause, and maybe even show a little ingenuity of their own in the process.

Super Bowl Sunday is already called America's unofficial national holiday.

While the two-decade-old assertion that Super Bowl Sunday is the most violent day of the year for women has been debunked again and again as a myth, domestic violence experts add the actual truth is much worse: Domestic violence is a horrific problem every day of the year. A woman is assaulted every nine seconds in America and one in four females will experience abuse in their lifetime.

These are not trifling stats.


What if the players engaged the league and advertisers to take a look at Super Bowl Sunday -- their most high-profile collaboration of the year, the one day when the players and the league and the sponsors' ambitions to leverage the game's colossal popularity all actually dovetail perfectly -- and dedicate the day to some effort to combat domestic violence? Something similar to how the league throws its muscle behind breast cancer awareness month.

Give the new campaign a sharp name. Make it happen.

Think how much NFL players could change perceptions if the effort to stop domestic violence originated among the players themselves, not the league or a beer company eager to protect market share.

"It could work. And it's something that could be done on Super Bowl Sunday this year," Kiwanuka nodded.

For the players themselves, leading the league's work against domestic violence could flip an issue that demonizes too many of them unfairly.

The sight of players actively leading the NFL's fight against domestic violence from the ground up rather than the league office down could be a certifiable point of pride instead.

It would be something more useful and far-reaching than just a punitive policy in which the league office punishes offenders and everyone moves on.

And it would make the players' personal stories more important.

So far, one of the most powerful asides of the Rice/Peterson fallout has been the high number of other NFL players who have stepped forward to reveal how domestic violence has touched their family's lives. As it turns out, what they've been saying all along is true: They're not all perpetrators. Sometimes their families are victims, same as you or you or you.

The Ravens' Chris Canty choked up on camera after more information came out about Rice and his suspension. Hall of Famer Howie Long has spoken about being shuttled among relatives who raised him as a child, and tough times he had. Other players have spoken of sisters, parents and other relatives who've been raped or killed in domestic violence incidents.

Nothing is stopping players from organizing an effort to combat domestic violence no matter what the owners or sponsors or Goodell does.

"The reason to do it isn't because of how public opinion is running now, because what happens when public opinion goes away?" Kiwanuka stresses. "That only creates cynicism. The reason for players to do it is because it's right."

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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2014, 10:55:23 AM »
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline endfire79

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Re: Ray Rice
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2014, 11:03:30 AM »
... I guess its more convenient to blame the gladiators :)

I won't try to defend congressmen/women (I'm not crazy), but I think I've seen variations of that post flying around the internet for a while.  Snopes has flagged it up as well.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp
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