Fire In the Lake

[JasonPratt]

I can definitely say not ARVN! -- they have the trickiest rules. Statistically they tend to win the least, too.

VC have the least rules, but that's partly because they have no divisions (cubes) and also have the fewest overall pieces they can play. They tend to win the most statistically, so once you learn to play them they can be handy.

The US is the strongest fighter on the board, but their scoring rules are a little weird and actually weigh AGAINST just crushing everyone off the board.

The NVA has as many specs (insurgents, special forces, which I nickname specs) and bases as the VC, and as many Troops (the cubes) as ARVN, all readily available to deploy, and they have very straightforward win conditions. They also have the only nearly-invulnerable territory in the game, and can best exploit the side-territories (in Laos and Cambodia). The first time I taught the game to someone, he was playing NVA and came back from literally one point to win the game for Team North (NVA and VC) with a crushing tidal wave.

So, I recommend the NVA on balance.

[Moreb]

NVA sounds good. I keep hearing how FitL is the hardest of the bunch but the subject matter intrigues me the most. Now what do you use to chat while playing TTS?

[JasonPratt]

Forgot to drop a line here (duh): after doing some test connections last night, I'll be introducing Moreb to FitL gameplay tonight (time still to be determined).

Anyone else is welcome to join! -- or if you have a preferred time and day, drop me a line (here or by Steam chat, the latter likely to be seen more quickly.)

[Nefaro]

I am currently in The Peoples Republic of Illinois and spend most weekends at our place just in the Ozarks of Missouri. I despise Illinois. High taxes, stupid laws, broken roads etc. I miss Missouri every day I am not there. Being in this state where dreams go to die was never a planned event. A family member in trouble and a conscience larger than my brain has me a prisoner here for just a short bit longer.
..

Hey Moreb, sent you a PM.  Fellow Ozarkian here. 

[Moreb]

So tonight I had my first experience with FitL and what a system it seems to be. I want to thank Jason for patiently and thoroughly running me through a large part of the game. And thanks to W8aminute for his patience while Jason did so. You will be a tough adversary no doubt. 

I can honestly say that I'm both overwhelmed and enthralled to dig further into FitL. There are so many moving parts and layers that I am having trouble seeing how they relate to each other but thanks to Jason, I certainly understand much of the mechanics.  If anyone gets the offer to be taught a game by Jason, I highly encourage you to take him up on it. You'd be hard pressed to find a more talented orator and concise teacher.

Thanks again. Now off to dig into the rules. Maybe after some time I can actually formulate a strategy? Maybe.

[JasonPratt]

Both Moreb and W8 did very well tonight -- granted, following some advice but they both had to choose between good choices for themselves, and have left their factions (NVA and US respectively) in better position than at game start.

In order to balance out the game as fairly as possible, I've taken the position of playing both VC and ARVN; so I'm on each of their side -- but by playing a full competitive game, that means I only have a 50% chance of winning (maybe less since after all I'm playing ARVN ) instead of 100% chance of sharing a win. This has also brought out more of the crazy political flavor of the game, much to their interest and appreciation!

(For what it's worth, the Viet Cong just leaped within a few points of winning -- if I can keep the points up! -- and ARVN has had some fine luck to exploit so while I'm much farther away from winning than the VC, NO I AM NOT SCHIZOPHRENIC, YOU'RE THINKING OF HYSTERIA!  )

I didn't film things, because I didn't want to post people actually learning the game; but I may take some snapshots of the gameboard for illustration. Both of them are set to do some real pounding, although overall I'd say the United States is struggling the most right now (as might be expected in 1964.)

Amusingly, the first card we drew was a Coup Round! -- which (I think correctly) we skipped as that would be poison to ARVN out of the gate. (Also amusingly, I completely forgot to make my pdf of the rules easily available.  ) So we got through the first seven turns without needing to process that.

Thanks again to W8 and Moreb for giving me an excuse to mess around with the game! -- hopefully we can continue later, and if one or two other players want to team in as the VC and/or ARVN, you're welcome to do so. 

[Nefaro]

Sorry for missing it.  Had company over. 

[JasonPratt]

Moreb and W8 did very well again two weekends ago. (This past weekend W8 and I played Scythe with Tuna and his son Eric.)

Thursday night tonight, with the weekend coming up, so I thought I'd check if SDR and/or Nef want to take shots this weekend.

[Yskonyn]

What about the 27th?

[JasonPratt]

As far as I know, I'm free on the 27th! (That's Friday afternoon/night.) Work might shift that a little, but normally I'll be back at the house by 4 pm Central Standard (-6 Zulu/Greenwich).

That seems like 10 or 11 pm your time though...? 

[Yskonyn]

Ok, keep you posted!

[Yskonyn]

Unfortunately I will have to sign off for today, Jason.

[JasonPratt]

Unfortunately I will have to sign off for today, Jason.

I was going to have to say the same thing -- it looks like I'll be running late at work (actually out of the state).

[Philippe]

Does anyone know how Fire in the Lake compares with the 3rd Edition of John Poniskie's Hearts and Minds?

I've noticed a few complaints about the physical quality of the earlier editions, but the 3rd edition is published by Compass games (and includes a solitaire bot scenario).

I know everyone seems to play Fire in the Lake, but I really don't care for wooden cubes because they lack immersion and remind me of Risk.

I'm not a big fan of block games either, but at least when playing a board game on a tabletop there's a reasonable rationale for the blocks.  But I think my dislike of wooden cubes explains why my copy of Pendragon has been gathering dust for about a year.

Unlike Fire in the Lake, the counters of Hearts and Minds actually have something drawn and written on them that makes them worth looking at.  I'm also a fan of John Ponisikie (the designer of King Philip's War and Blood on the Ohio).

[GJK]

I've been curious about FiTL but read a BGG comment that struck home with me about these types of games: that during the game, it becomes less about the actual conflict and simulation and more about card play as if it could be a game of Gin or something.  Also, because of the duplicity of the card play, it becomes a case of some major historical event not happening because the card was played for the points and not the event.  A big turn-off for me for a subject that I'd want to experience historically.