Author Topic: I am Jesus (simulation)  (Read 2336 times)

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2019, 04:51:21 PM »
Oh yeah, I'm all about that subjugation of other people, I do it all the time here. BOW, YIELD, KNEEL!  :coolsmiley:

...I wonder if that's in the simulation. Seems important.
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Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2019, 06:18:27 PM »
DRINK!  GIRLS!

Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2019, 11:29:24 PM »

I'd be interested to hear your evidence to support this proposition over in the "Religion, Politics, and Flame Wars" board.   :)

Are we doing this?  I'm on Team Father Ted.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2019, 06:45:16 AM »
Touchy subject no doubt. I'll just add that I want to play as God of the Old Testament so I could smite some people.

Quite a number of games do that already; most notoriously the Dominions series which leans REAAAAALLLY HARD into the idea that a bunch of lesser lords and gods are trying to get themselves declared the Most High after the previous Most High retires/disappears/whatever. The lore of the in-game descriptions treats the previous Most High rather like the OT YHWH ADNY (without the better qualities that contributed to human social development down the ages).
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2019, 06:55:06 AM »

I'd be interested to hear your evidence to support this proposition over in the "Religion, Politics, and Flame Wars" board.   :)

Are we doing this?  I'm on Team Father Ted.

I stand ready to debate the issue over at the RP&F board.  I believe the proposition for debate is "No religions are "true" or,  indeed, anything other than human constructs to erroneously explain the world and/or subjugate other humans." or some variation of that

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2019, 07:19:51 AM »
To be fair, FTed was dialing it down a notch with that phrasing; previously he had said,"Espousing a religion is essentially attempting to exploit a person's ignorance about the nature of the world in order to manipulate them for your own gain." No exceptions allowed.

His new phrasing allows that not every religious belief necessarily involves religious believers espousing a religion to attempt to subjugate other humans aka to manipulate other humans for our own gain. We might only be erroneously explaining the world (per the "and/or").

Amusingly, the new phraseology also technically allows that that a religion could be a human construct that CORRECTLY explains the world (while still being not true!?!), but in that case the correct explanation(s) would only be for the purpose of subjugating other humans.  ::)

Maybe he has Soviet science in mind as a religion? I've seen it described that way before, when atheists want to dismiss examples of monstrously tyrannical atheistic regimes: sure they're correct about explanations (by and large, such as atheism being true -- or ahem maybe not true, nothing other than a human construct though correctly explaining the world), but they're still a religion because they're using correct explanations about the world to subjugate other humans.


But I doubt he was thinking that precisely; I expect he was just trying to be nicer and more fair.  O:-)  O0

(Being a picky logician however with a primary hobby in metaphysics, I did notice.  ^-^ )

As Tripoli says, though, it's really a discussion for RFP. Ted might be taking the time to work up a proper opening argument to kick it off; but if not, you could, SirAndy!

Alternately, if I get bored on my other projects, I could restart an RFP thread based on my longform philosophical argument that I posted here back in 2015 -- I update it every few years and I've been thinking of giving it another repolish next year anyway. http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=14114.msg366954#msg366954
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Father Ted

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2019, 03:05:21 PM »
Sorry guys it's a bit of a hobby-horse of mine - shouldn't have brought it up on the on this bit of the forum.

@ Tripoli - I doubt there'd be much in the way of debate.  I've basically couched my view in those two statements.  But OK, I'll toddle down to RFP...

@Jason - I usually (as now) write these posts after a few drinks, so I'm not checking them for robust logic

@SirAndrewD - here's to kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse!

Sorry to whoever's thread this is.


Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2019, 11:06:21 PM »
I stand ready to debate the issue over at the RP&F board.  I believe the proposition for debate is "No religions are "true" or,  indeed, anything other than human constructs to erroneously explain the world and/or subjugate other humans." or some variation of that

I think it's best for all of us to just let it go and be amused at the dumb game. 

If something in R&P ever got formed to that effect, there's no point.  No one can prove a negative.  In any debate the burden of proof is on the positive, not negative. 

I can't prove there are no unicorns.  The burden of proof lies on the positive assertion that there are unicorns.  If there are. then that's the basis. 

If Father Ted says no Religions are True, it's not his burden of proof.  He can not prove a negative, if it is a negative, clearly there is no proof.  The burden of proof must be on the alternate, that "There is a true Religion" and then they must provide direct, unarguable proof that their point is true. 

So, no I don't think it should go further based on the proposed criteria, nor do I think it should proceed at all.   We all are all over the place on religion, or lack thereof. 

I don't think some dumb game about walking on water should draw out our disagreements.

Offline Father Ted

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2019, 04:07:06 PM »

If Father Ted says no Religions are True, it's not his burden of proof.  He can not prove a negative, if it is a negative, clearly there is no proof.  The burden of proof must be on the alternate, that "There is a true Religion" and then they must provide direct, unarguable proof that their point is true. 


Jeez (ahem)  I wish I'd thought of that  - cheers SirAndrewD (for the record no [and I mean no] sarcasm).

Offline Gusington

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2019, 04:14:09 PM »
Very impressive keeping this out of R&P. Well done all!
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2019, 05:04:02 PM »
I agree a dumb game shouldn't draw us to fight against one another; but neither do I mind opportunities for friendly discussions (where possible) about our differences of belief.

Which seems to me to be the point to Tripoli inviting FTed to create a new RFP thread to discuss whether all religious belief is about "essentially attempting to exploit a person's ignorance about the nature of the world in order to manipulate them for your own gain" or in other words to "subjugate" them.

And maybe also about whether "no religions are true" along the way -- a much, much larger topic -- but I'm at least 50% sure Tripoli was aiming primarily at discussing those other, positive not negative, details. I know I was! ;)
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2019, 05:20:54 PM »
I don't mean Father Ted or anyone else has to make an RFP thread about that topic, btw. I'm only reminding that there were other details that we were offering to discuss elsewhere.
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: I am Jesus (simulation)
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2019, 06:56:58 PM »
I agree a dumb game shouldn't draw us to fight against one another; but neither do I mind opportunities for friendly discussions (where possible) about our differences of belief.

Which seems to me to be the point to Tripoli inviting FTed to create a new RFP thread to discuss whether all religious belief is about "essentially attempting to exploit a person's ignorance about the nature of the world in order to manipulate them for your own gain" or in other words to "subjugate" them.

And maybe also about whether "no religions are true" along the way -- a much, much larger topic -- but I'm at least 50% sure Tripoli was aiming primarily at discussing those other, positive not negative, details. I know I was! ;)

Yes, that was my objective