Author Topic: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)  (Read 33989 times)

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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #300 on: June 25, 2018, 07:01:55 AM »
I'm genuinely curious to hear what you guys think, especially those that go to Origins regularly (heh) -

Would it be fair to say there are still attendees that are socially awkward/introverted individuals that have no idea how to behave around women? Or other people in general?

I'm definitely NOT trying to excuse the individual's behavior - but I've known dudes that are "that guy" that joins your game group at some point, and almost immediately you know there's something off about them, as they say really inappropriate/weird things, but that's their attempt at being social. You'd vote them as 'most likely to machine-gun a mall.' In their mind, they're hilarious, but when the tires meet the road, it comes across exactly the opposite.

When I worked these conventions, most people were really nice and great to talk to. But there was always the 10% that were creepy, weird, smelled bad, made off-color jokes, and would go on at length about the oddest and most inappropriate things.

Again, not to excuse this or any other individual engaging in this behavior; just wondering if the intent behind those words was real or if they really thought they were being funny.

I think that this is not going to change, that some will STILL be like this, but maybe getting this to light will mean they think twice before they open their mouths and say something like that to someone they don't know.

Offline Advocator

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #301 on: June 25, 2018, 07:41:42 AM »
I've been going to Origins and GenCon for about 10 years now. It's getting better. You're seeing more, for want of a better word, normal people. But you still have people from that 10% group you referenced. It's less than it used to be (at some of my first trips to GenCon, we would play Gamer or Vagrant, it was harder than it should have been), but it's there.

Thing is, you can usually spot those people a mile away. And for better or worse, no one is caught off guard by their sometimes inappropriate behavior. It's the ones that look like your average everyday person that are the bigger issue. And, outside of blatant playtest my penis comments, they probably don't recognize their own behavior that makes others feel uncomfortable.

This thread on reddit high lights some of the things some men will do, likely without even realizing it: https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/8t0wpb/are_you_gonna_play_the_victim_all_life_long_my/

Some of that stuff can be subtle, even unconscious. I think that's where the bigger issues are not because they are more serious than  things like cornering people or downblousing, but because of their greater prevalence. I've seen all of those things mentioned happen at local stores, meet ups, and conventions. Maybe I notice it because my local gaming groups are a decent mix of men and women, heck, my old d&d group was 50/50 or maybe because the girl who came up with Gamer or Vagrant was anything but shy about calling people on their behavior (e.g., "I've got a vagina, not brain damage," really curtailed the condescending rule explanations).

Regardless, I've seen things get better, but it's still out there if you look for it.

Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #302 on: June 25, 2018, 07:50:10 AM »
but I've known dudes that are "that guy" that joins your game group at some point, and almost immediately you know there's something off about them, as they say really inappropriate/weird things

Not really what was happening here


but that's their attempt at being social

Unwarranted lewd propositions are not an attempt at being social, nor is stalking someone back to her hotel


Just to be clear, there were several incidents, involving different women, that are under investigation.
At least one of the guys is (apparently) a known cad with a reputation for being an asshole to women.

Moreover, near as anyone can tell (and the investigation is still ongoing) no one is complaining that "some guy asked to buy me a drink and I said no and we never talked again but that's still harassment".

But if you want to see what asshats men can be around gaming, hang out where you can watch the FPG booth for a while and after an hour or so, you'll be embarrassed on behalf of men everywhere.
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #303 on: June 25, 2018, 07:56:31 AM »
Just so I'm being clear, I was referencing the 'playtest my penis' comment, not the stalking-back-to-the-hotel behavior.

Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #304 on: June 25, 2018, 08:00:36 AM »
Just so I'm being clear, I was referencing the 'playtest my penis' comment, not the stalking-back-to-the-hotel behavior.

nope - that guy is the known cad



as Ardwulf noted
https://twitter.com/Ardwulf/status/1009464035501379585

and

https://twitter.com/Ardwulf/status/1009464239839416321
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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #305 on: June 25, 2018, 08:06:14 AM »
here's the biggest takeaway I've seen from the majority of people asking about these incidents around the web:

most of the questions being asked might be acceptable if there was actual root-cause-analysis to address the behavior, but it too often seems like the "root-cause-analysis" to try and excuse the behavior as though it's acceptable and everyone just needs to "get over it"

(note, this is not a GH problem; it's a gaming-across-the-web problem)
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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #306 on: June 25, 2018, 08:33:18 PM »
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline airboy

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #307 on: June 25, 2018, 08:54:02 PM »
here's the biggest takeaway I've seen from the majority of people asking about these incidents around the web:

most of the questions being asked might be acceptable if there was actual root-cause-analysis to address the behavior, but it too often seems like the "root-cause-analysis" to try and excuse the behavior as though it's acceptable and everyone just needs to "get over it"

(note, this is not a GH problem; it's a gaming-across-the-web problem)

According to my wife (same age as I am), there is a small proportion of incredibly crude males out there.  Today she got an incredibly crude comment from a random male at Wal-Mart.  I mention this because I had told her about the Origins stuff.  We were about 99% in agreement.
1] It is a mistake to assume that because of race, age, sex, or whatever that one person is "right."
2] Get the evidence
3] When warranted, publically sanction the individual.



Offline airboy

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #308 on: June 25, 2018, 08:57:17 PM »
I've been going to Origins and GenCon for about 10 years now. It's getting better. You're seeing more, for want of a better word, normal people. But you still have people from that 10% group you referenced. It's less than it used to be (at some of my first trips to GenCon, we would play Gamer or Vagrant, it was harder than it should have been), but it's there.

Thing is, you can usually spot those people a mile away. And for better or worse, no one is caught off guard by their sometimes inappropriate behavior. It's the ones that look like your average everyday person that are the bigger issue. And, outside of blatant playtest my penis comments, they probably don't recognize their own behavior that makes others feel uncomfortable.

This thread on reddit high lights some of the things some men will do, likely without even realizing it: https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/8t0wpb/are_you_gonna_play_the_victim_all_life_long_my/

Some of that stuff can be subtle, even unconscious. I think that's where the bigger issues are not because they are more serious than  things like cornering people or downblousing, but because of their greater prevalence. I've seen all of those things mentioned happen at local stores, meet ups, and conventions. Maybe I notice it because my local gaming groups are a decent mix of men and women, heck, my old d&d group was 50/50 or maybe because the girl who came up with Gamer or Vagrant was anything but shy about calling people on their behavior (e.g., "I've got a vagina, not brain damage," really curtailed the condescending rule explanations).

Regardless, I've seen things get better, but it's still out there if you look for it.


That was an interesting link.  In some ways horrifying and depressing, but interesting. 

Even back in the early 1980s I had trouble understanding why anyone would be patronizing to someone walking up with ready money in a business situation.  One of my buddies (female accounting major) rolled her eyes and said that "when money can be made the only color you ever see is green."  I've taught sales for almost three decades now.  One of the big things we work on is how to ask good questions and to carefully listen before you pitch something.  Both are critical selling skills that are necessary for basic competence.

Offline bbmike

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #309 on: June 26, 2018, 04:19:40 AM »
Lots o' photos

http://grogheads.com/featured-posts/19130

The Academy Games 1754 modeled terrain map with miniatures was really cool.  O0
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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #310 on: June 26, 2018, 04:24:00 AM »
Lots o' photos

http://grogheads.com/featured-posts/19130

The Academy Games 1754 modeled terrain map with miniatures was really cool.  O0

I know.  I wonder if they set that up in the warehouse sometimes just for the staff to game
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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #311 on: June 27, 2018, 03:21:51 PM »
Pretty sure folks liked the Kriegspiel

« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 03:23:54 PM by bayonetbrant »
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Offline panzerde

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #312 on: June 27, 2018, 03:35:56 PM »
Can I change my answer? I want to point out how cool the Kriegsspeil was...

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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #313 on: June 27, 2018, 04:13:21 PM »
Can I change my answer? I want to point out how cool the Kriegsspeil was...



I suspect we have it covered :)
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Offline Cyrano

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Re: Origins 2018 ~ June 13-17 (Columbus OH)
« Reply #314 on: June 27, 2018, 04:25:06 PM »
Woah, woah, woah...

Why did no one mention the Kriegsspiel?

Or Purple Prussians...
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