Post Scriptum - Operation Market Garden Shooter

[MengJiao]

I know likely never work but would be so cool to have a proper battle in one of these games.

  I guess my standards are a lot lower.  Having played these games for years I'm always surprised when my gun shoots and actually kills the target.  Even from three yards in the back I always half expect the shot to do no apparent damage while the MG42 gunner jumps up, flips through the air, whistles and kills me instantly with a wrench.  So far this hasn't happened in PS, so it seems like a great game.

[Father Ted]

I am talking two platoon sized units moving and operating as in a realistic fight. Not seen that kind of thing anywhere.

Clans do this sort of thing.  I've posted about this before, but there was a clan in Darkest Hour who would invite public players to partake in this sort of event and it was great.  You needed a bit of patience as the game was being set up, but the ensuing experience was huge.  Maybe there will be clans in PS which will do this...

Even in pub-play with these games you will sometimes luck into a decent squad and it is a bunch of fun.  Of course a Grogs' squad would be so much better...

[Trooperc7]

trying to get people to play as a team in an online FPS brings to mind trying to herd cats!

[MengJiao]

trying to get people to play as a team in an online FPS brings to mind trying to herd cats!

I was in some battles yesterday.  From what I could see and understand (which was sometimes not a lot), coordination was pretty good.  There is a strong hierarchy with loadouts and roles associated, but not identical.  So for example, the "Commander" (a platoon-level officer) can call in airstrikes and artillery, while the logistics unit sets up mortars.  There are three kinds of mortars in the game (roughly the 50mm at the secton level, the 3-inch above that and the 4-inch (the 106mm I guess)) so that's unusually cool in itself.  Attacking is a lot harder than defending and things can go wrong fast.  In the night battle I think I followed pretty well, the main punch went in well and we were say 30 seconds from winning BUT casualties were high especially among the section and platoon leaders and all sorts of odd things happened plus armored coordination wasn't very good -- but that seems pretty realistic and therefore "Cool" or even "Neato" in my kid-from-the-60s aesthetics.  The main interest I have in this game is the coolness of having weapons and situations that resemble things you might actually have seen if you had been present for Market-Garden in 1944.  It's true that with Fireflies on hand you are in a more ideal version of things for the allied paratroops north of the Rhine, but still it is pretty cool.

[Zulu1966]

Also think no respawn would make people more cautious. Sort of rogue FPS if you like.

[MengJiao]

Also think no respawn would make people more cautious. Sort of rogue FPS if you like.

   Respawning is sort of the boundary marker of the game as game versus the game as something else.  After all the game doesn't simulate the social and disciplinary pressures that make soldiers undertake very dangerous or even suicidal tasks.  Plus respawning sort of makes up for the limited population of players that can be represented at any one time.   So though the game seems to represent one heavily-reinforced platoon attacking another heavily-reinforced platoon, the actual numbers of troops (counting each respawn or even wound as a separate soldier) is more like a not-very-well-supported and fantastically uncoordinated battalion undertaking a probe or feint -- which does match the frontage more closely as well.

[Michael Dorosh]

and the 4-inch (the 106mm I guess)) .

4.2" Mortar was used by the Americans also - I believe it is 107mm, so close. The Yanks used them in chemical mortar battalions as they fired smoke and WP. The British had one company per division of the 4.2", as a part of the divisional MG battalion.

[Zulu1966]

Also think no respawn would make people more cautious. Sort of rogue FPS if you like.

   Respawning is sort of the boundary marker of the game as game versus the game as something else.  After all the game doesn't simulate the social and disciplinary pressures that make soldiers undertake very dangerous or even suicidal tasks.  Plus respawning sort of makes up for the limited population of players that can be represented at any one time.   So though the game seems to represent one heavily-reinforced platoon attacking another heavily-reinforced platoon, the actual numbers of troops (counting each respawn or even wound as a separate soldier) is more like a not-very-well-supported and fantastically uncoordinated battalion undertaking a probe or feint -- which does match the frontage more closely as well.

Yes I get the point of the respawn. I guess what I am saying is that if a player knew when he got killed he would have to spectate or leave.and find another server then it may by effect introduce some of that real world caution and by extension introduce some proper co op as simply the only or best way to survive.

Not saying it's enjoyable for those that like to simply run around shooting people knowing they will just be reincarnated, but would add something

[Tuna]

Also think no respawn would make people more cautious. Sort of rogue FPS if you like.

   Respawning is sort of the boundary marker of the game as game versus the game as something else.  After all the game doesn't simulate the social and disciplinary pressures that make soldiers undertake very dangerous or even suicidal tasks.  Plus respawning sort of makes up for the limited population of players that can be represented at any one time.   So though the game seems to represent one heavily-reinforced platoon attacking another heavily-reinforced platoon, the actual numbers of troops (counting each respawn or even wound as a separate soldier) is more like a not-very-well-supported and fantastically uncoordinated battalion undertaking a probe or feint -- which does match the frontage more closely as well.

Yes I get the point of the respawn. I guess what I am saying is that if a player knew when he got killed he would have to spectate or leave.and find another server then it may by effect introduce some of that real world caution and by extension introduce some proper co op as simply the only or best way to survive.

Not saying it's enjoyable for those that like to simply run around shooting people knowing they will just be reincarnated, but would add something

That's how my friends and I used to do that Call of Duty mode.. I forget what it was called, but once you died you 'watched' cause your dead. Some people hate that (the free for all - bunny hopping types). But some, like myself really enjoyed it, makes you pursue the objective with caution.

Think I played that Arma 2 mod, that way too on SimHQ's UK server.. SDR are you the one that turned me on to them? Those were fun games!

[MengJiao]

Yes I get the point of the respawn. I guess what I am saying is that if a player knew when he got killed he would have to spectate or leave.and find another server then it may by effect introduce some of that real world caution and by extension introduce some proper co op as simply the only or best way to survive.

Not saying it's enjoyable for those that like to simply run around shooting people knowing they will just be reincarnated, but would add something

  I think for some games no respawn would be fine.  On the other hand the spawn and respawning in PS is pretty constructive and meshes well with the medic mechanics to keep sections grouped and reward staying grouped.  People are still pretty shocked when they get killed in PS or even near-missed (there are suppression effects) and wounds have effects similar to suppression.  PLUS respawning takes time and offers options for restructuring the section as players come in and out of the game.  It's pretty hard to run around shooting in PS -- you are pretty likely to be picked off by people who are more cautious or machine-gun fire or mortar fire or an air strike or exploding ammunition or your own AT guns shooting HE etc. etc..  Anyone who stays with his section is likely to live longer due to help spotting the enemy, fire support, smoke, not being hit by your own side and medics among other things.

[jomni]

No respawn is ok for Team Deathmatch style games in a small space.  Territory capture would be boring without respawn.  Firefights become too sparse and doesn’t give you a feeling of a big operation. 

[MengJiao]

No respawn is ok for Team Deathmatch style games in a small space.  Territory capture would be boring without respawn.  Firefights become too sparse and doesn’t give you a feeling of a big operation.

   At least in PS, respawning is built in so as to mesh some levels of complexity (sections, deployment, switching roles, medics).  Here is a snapshot of a Cromwell with some damage returning for repair:

[Jarhead0331]

Anybody playing the release build? How is it?

[MengJiao]

Anybody playing the release build? How is it?

   There are at least two new maps: Doorwerth (with a castle) and Arnhem Range (which might be the same as Arnhem, but I only saw training servers using it).  Otherwise I've never had trouble with whatever "optimization" means and I don't drive Tiger tanks so I don't get upset when somebody blows me up so the game has seemed perfectly workable even in beta.  There's some kind of training now -- but that was jammed so I went to Doorwerth and drove a halftrack and a jeep for the first time.  Perhaps there are more vehicles available on all maps now?

    If the release build is otherwise as stable as the beta then -- for me -- the game works fine.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

It still runs quite poorly on my machine with the FPS dropping to 12 or so from time to time.  Texture fill is often delayed and will take a second or two to pop in whenever I spawn in or transition out of a vehicle.

Rebinding keys still causes issues.  I've remapped my controls but some no longer function.  I can't change the zero range on my rifles even though the commands are bound.  I've tried various combos but nothing outside of the defaults works.