Hell Let Loose

[Destraex]

A good write up of the differences between the two games currently:

[MengJiao]

I work every night this week except for Thursday. Expect I'll be up for a round or two Thursday evening though. Next week my schedule is much better. I have two gaming nights scheduled but because I am in night shift mode I can come home from gaming and still spend some quality time with HLL 

So far I have only tried the rifleman role. Next up I'll probably have a go at being a medic. I want to get a better handle on the basics before taking on trickier roles like assault/recon/engineer/armor etc.

  I did the same thing.  I still take a rifleman unless there's some specific task (such as supply...which I forgot about...or tank hunting, which is fun)

[MengJiao]

A good write up of the differences between the two games currently:

  I agree with the basic assessment: Post Scriptum is the better simulator and probably always will be.  The only positive plugs I would put in for HLL are mostly personal:
1) US in Normandy
2) More going on (the review doesn't mention advancement and customization, but that might become more interesting in HLL)
3) Smaller maps (a good thing, I think)
4) more mass engagements
5) smaller "squads"
6) easier to command a squad
7) HLL is at an earlier stage developmentally and might change in a better direction soon
for me visually better and the movement is fine

I am finding the nonballistics of HLL somewhat painful since I have to be pretty close to the enemy to kill them, but that might improve soon
Plus supposedly HLL is going to get more vehicles and some "logistics" changes some time or other

[Trooperc7]

I like both games, but after playing both for many hours, I think i prefer Post Scripitum. To me, i feel it plays better and certainly gives me more of a feeling of actual warfare than HLL. Once HLL adds some transport i think it will be a better game.

[MengJiao]

I like both games, but after playing both for many hours, I think i prefer Post Scripitum. To me, i feel it plays better and certainly gives me more of a feeling of actual warfare than HLL. Once HLL adds some transport i think it will be a better game.

  I was thinking of getting back to PS since I wasn't getting kills with the M1, but I just got 9 kills in a losing battle at Foy.  Some might have been grenade-kills, but I think it was mostly the M1 in the woods.  Foy was a nice battle for me back in the RO Mod Darkest Hour and okay...I guess I like Foy okay in HLL too.  And of course, I always get more kills in losing battles for some reason.

[AchillesLastStand]

Played a bit of PS and it is surely more of a realistic simulation as compared to the more arcade-ish HLL.

With the little bit of playtime I had in PS I spent seemingly the vast majority of my time getting killed, mostly by someone whom I never seen. Wasn't very fun so I eventually refunded, played a bit on the free weekend and was more of the same.

Having way more fun in HLL, in one session I managed 3 tanks kills as an AT guy, a Tiger, and Panther and a Luchs were all victims. Having your markers set to the maximum 500 will help your game as well as prevent team kills.
The new map they are working on in HLL looks wonderful.

[MengJiao]

Played a bit of PS and it is surely more of a realistic simulation as compared to the more arcade-ish HLL.

With the little bit of playtime I had in PS I spent seemingly the vast majority of my time getting killed, mostly by someone whom I never seen. Wasn't very fun so I eventually refunded, played a bit on the free weekend and was more of the same.

Having way more fun in HLL, in one session I managed 3 tanks kills as an AT guy, a Tiger, and Panther and a Luchs were all victims. Having your markers set to the maximum 500 will help your game as well as prevent team kills.
The new map they are working on in HLL looks wonderful.

   Now that I have some confidence in the M1 in HLL -- which since RO's Darkest Hour has been my favorite weapon -- I'm worried that when and if better ballistics come to HLL, they might give me some trouble for a while.  It took me 20 hours of HLL to get the hang of a non-ballistic rifle (basically a question of how far away your moving target has to be to risk a shot -- in PS I could hit moving targets with an Enfield or an M1 at around 150 meters with reasonable probability, in HLL much less -- extreme range for me with the M1 is about 80 meters for moving targets).  Who knows how long it will take me to get ballistic again?  I do miss a lot of things about PS (well, the Bren gun mostly at the moment), but I'm definitely happier with a slightly arcade-ish tilt  -- not sure why -- its a difficult to define set of atmospheric things -- but basically, smaller maps and smaller "squads" -- I also think things will get more interesting in HLL with the improved map marking -- a more democratic version of the pick-a thing wheel in PS. 

   As for 500 meters for one's own side being visible -- I started with that and I might go back to it if I use MGs or tanks, but I'm pretty sure anyone 100 meters from me is safe  from me so I've reset to 100 meter visibility just to keep my visual field uncluttered.

   Ah,yes...the maps in HLL, well they are wonderful and the new one looks like the best so far.

[Grim.Reaper]

this is going to sound stupid since in know it’s a multiplayer game but will ask anyway.  let’s just say i am pretty much an individual without any squads or friends who place this game, is it easy fir me to find a server and just play?  what kind of team communications happen?  i am not a big fan of using head sets and such, pretty much prefer just following along.  if you don’t use headsets, how else would general strategy be shown?

how serious are the players?  no doubt i would suck and the last thing i need is people yelling at me:)

[Father Ted]

Spent a couple of hours with HLL last night, almost all of the time dying in seemingly random ways.  In a weird way I quite like that in a FPS: the confusion and lack of situational awareness seem to me to be quite realistic.  I do find that usually that begins to clear up as one learns the maps, what the enemy looks like and the game mechanisms.  I logged many hours in DH and RO2 and thus got relatively proficient as a grunt in those games - whether or not I have the stamina to get there in HLL (or PS, or Squad - I've got them all) remains to be seen.

To answer Grim's question, I'd say you could play these games without comms, but it would be tricky.  People do tag onto a squad without uttering a word (there is text chat), but a half-decent squad leader will talk to you and may expect a response. The"over-serious player" question is difficult because you won't know until you join the squad.  There may be some clues in the server description, but I guess you just have to put in the hours finding a server that has the sort of crowd you're looking for.  The short answer is that you don't have to use voice comms, and that your experience of the game will depend on the people in your squad

For me, I miss the simplicity of RO/DH, when you could just pick a side, pick a role and get on with it and team-play or lone-wolf depending on how you felt.  I understand that these Project Reality descendants are all about making game-play more realistic and less run-and-gun, but I resent being forced into it.

I was lucky last night in that I joined a squad with my son (I say "lucky" - must have done some good parenting!) and some of his mates, so it was a "safe" environment in which to learn stuff (your squad's comms are isolated from the rest of the server and you can block people from joining it).  That's the best way to experience these games - with people you already know

In the end, though, these MP games are a social thing (I got to virtually know quite a few people through DH and to know actual real people through MP flightsimming) and to get the best out of them, IMHO, you have to bite the bullet and join in that side of it.

[MengJiao]

I was lucky last night in that I joined a squad with my son (I say "lucky" - must have done some good parenting!) and some of his mates, so it was a "safe" environment in which to learn stuff (your squad's comms are isolated from the rest of the server and you can block people from joining it).  That's the best way to experience these games - with people you already know

In the end, though, these MP games are a social thing (I got to virtually know quite a few people through DH and to know actual real people through MP flightsimming) and to get the best out of them, IMHO, you have to bite the bullet and join in that side of it.

   Yep, you sorta have to roll with the social ambiance.  I was with a pretty cool group last night.  Me and a speechless Chinese guy turned back some infiltrators whilst standing on a searchlight above a trench.  Our squad-mates backed us up and our medic had a religious experience of a wonderfully comic nature.  Later we tried to rush a couple of objectives and barely lost the game -- but a good time was had by all. 

   So two lessons -- if you want to be speechless learn how to look Chinese (a few mysterious idiograms in your name tag should do)

2) if you are me (Lloyd)...set your own side tags to 250 meters because you can hit people at over 100 meters.

Okay and a third thing -- don't wear your white "Foy" helmet on non-winter maps

Okay and number 4) if you are suppressing an MG42 with rifle fire, you may be right in the line of fire from your own side (got Team killed twice doing that last night)

[MengJiao]

this is going to sound stupid since in know it’s a multiplayer game but will ask anyway.  let’s just say i am pretty much an individual without any squads or friends who place this game, is it easy fir me to find a server and just play?  what kind of team communications happen?  i am not a big fan of using head sets and such, pretty much prefer just following along.  if you don’t use headsets, how else would general strategy be shown?

how serious are the players?  no doubt i would suck and the last thing i need is people yelling at me:)

  One thing I like about HLL is that things are often (not always) less serious.  If you don't want to talk, just get a Chinese ideogram in front of your name tag.  No body is going to kick the Chinese off their server or even out of the squad.  Really, being a silent Chinese is far less annoying than the average player can be.

   However...don't be a squad leader if you aren't going to talk.  At the "command" level there's a lot of chatter.

BUT (and here's a hopeful but)...there's going to be a game mechanism that allows anyone to report things (targets or enemies) at least to the squad level ....of course some people say "so no communication"....well you know in a real battle a lot of communication is non-verbal so we can suppose when you mark the map for your squad...you are pointing and screaming or something.

You might want to wait for that map marking update.

[Grim.Reaper]

thanks guys, that is what i suspected....

[MengJiao]

thanks guys, that is what i suspected....

  Here's the non-verbal things coming soon:


   https://steamcommunity.com/games/686810/announcements/detail/1708488968124292072

[MengJiao]

  Here's the non-verbal things coming soon:

   I'm pointing at this back way into town:

   

[JasonPratt]

I've been watching Post Scriptum recently, and it has improved enough that I'm thinking about getting into it at last... (too bad we don't have a good 'pondering' smiley.)