Author Topic: Armored Brigade  (Read 33007 times)

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Offline Apocalypse 31

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #300 on: January 09, 2021, 08:22:05 PM »
^ I've seen your review before and don't entirely agree with it.  I've found pathfinding to be fine based on order types I used, and you shouldn't be microing squads anyways.

IMO pathfinding is not fine, and if you keep units in platoon formations then individual vehicles will usually take up AWFUL positions. For example, if I order a tank platoon to take up positions along a treeline, inevitably, one vehicle will take a position INSIDE the treeline with no LOS, and the only solution is to break the platoon apart and manually position vehicles (micromanage + induce insane command delay)

Related to a MECH infantry platoons - Squads need to stay close by their vehicles to maintain command radius. That's not how MECH infantry fight in real life.

This game is so unrealistic that is laughable.


But
even if you disregarded the pathfinding issues, then the game still has unbelievable flaws-

Most notably the pointless objectives that hold no tactical value and an enemy AI that just bunches up around objectives and applies no coherent tactics.

"But there's a battle generator where you can set your own Objectives"

Yes, and the AI will still just bunch up around defense objectives or rush into a meeting engagement with zero tactics.

I especially love the random infantry squads that I see laying in open fields.

Good reference for doctrinal templates for offense/defense of WARSAW Pact nations

Offline MOS:96B2P

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #301 on: January 10, 2021, 08:19:11 AM »

Good reference for doctrinal templates for offense/defense of WARSAW Pact nations



Thanks, that was an interesting video.  I re-posted it on the BFC CMBS forum.

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #302 on: January 12, 2021, 03:42:53 PM »
^ I've seen your review before and don't entirely agree with it.  I've found pathfinding to be fine based on order types I used, and you shouldn't be microing squads anyways.

IMO pathfinding is not fine, and if you keep units in platoon formations then individual vehicles will usually take up AWFUL positions. For example, if I order a tank platoon to take up positions along a treeline, inevitably, one vehicle will take a position INSIDE the treeline with no LOS, and the only solution is to break the platoon apart and manually position vehicles (micromanage + induce insane command delay)

Related to a MECH infantry platoons - Squads need to stay close by their vehicles to maintain command radius. That's not how MECH infantry fight in real life.

This game is so unrealistic that is laughable.


But
even if you disregarded the pathfinding issues, then the game still has unbelievable flaws-

Most notably the pointless objectives that hold no tactical value and an enemy AI that just bunches up around objectives and applies no coherent tactics.

"But there's a battle generator where you can set your own Objectives"

Yes, and the AI will still just bunch up around defense objectives or rush into a meeting engagement with zero tactics.

I especially love the random infantry squads that I see laying in open fields.


Because of your thoughts, I played through some generated scenarios again. Paying particular attention to your points. 

I had a great time...and IMHO the game is not 'unbelievably flawed.'

Both scenarios I played were at the reinforced company level. One was a US assault against the Soviets in a heavily wooded area of Fulda, the other a US defense against the Soviets in a relatively open valley at NTC. 

When I get time over the next week or so, I'll put together some AARs.

Maybe I am just undiscerning, but for an AI playing in a dynamically generated scenario, the AI was OK IMHO. Robo Ivan even had some surprises for me. On defense, I did not see it clump around the objectives (but that may have had something to do with the way I set the scenario up). In one case the defending AI took up good positions covering an open area I had to cross....I left some burning M-60s and M113s there as a result... It used artillery and air strikes well. Once I had taken the objectives, it counter-attacked. Was the AI coordinating its efforts well?  No. Did it have a well thought out defense plan? No. But I still had a good time, and the AI gave me some challenges.     

I don't think "pathfinding" is an issue. But the AI deployment of units certainly is. Yes, if you move a tank platoon, the AI will inevitably screw up placing one or more of the tanks. So you do need to guide them somewhat. The game allows you to adjust these placements manually as you said, but you are right, it is more work. But I am OK with some manual work at the level I usually play the game (battalion and below). Of course, If I was playing a game at the regiment level, all of that fiddling would make the game a bit of a monster.

Does the AI have problems, sure.  But none of these rise to the level where I can't play the game or where it affects the "fun" factor.

I am also now curious to play some of the hand built scenarios...just to see if there are any differences.

Don't get me wrong, the game is not everything I want (multiplayer support would be very nice for example). But for anyone who got the game on sale for $25, I think the game is an incredible bargain. 
Honus Wagner
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Shortstop: Pittsburgh Pirates 1900-1917
Rated as the 2nd most valuable player of all time by Bill James.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #303 on: January 12, 2021, 04:54:32 PM »

Because of your thoughts, I played through some generated scenarios again. Paying particular attention to your points. 

I had a great time...and IMHO the game is not 'unbelievably flawed.'

Both scenarios I played were at the reinforced company level. One was a US assault against the Soviets in a heavily wooded area of Fulda, the other a US defense against the Soviets in a relatively open valley at NTC. 

When I get time over the next week or so, I'll put together some AARs.

Maybe I am just undiscerning, but for an AI playing in a dynamically generated scenario, the AI was OK IMHO. Robo Ivan even had some surprises for me. On defense, I did not see it clump around the objectives (but that may have had something to do with the way I set the scenario up). In one case the defending AI took up good positions covering an open area I had to cross....I left some burning M-60s and M113s there as a result... It used artillery and air strikes well. Once I had taken the objectives, it counter-attacked. Was the AI coordinating its efforts well?  No. Did it have a well thought out defense plan? No. But I still had a good time, and the AI gave me some challenges.     

I don't think "pathfinding" is an issue. But the AI deployment of units certainly is. Yes, if you move a tank platoon, the AI will inevitably screw up placing one or more of the tanks. So you do need to guide them somewhat. The game allows you to adjust these placements manually as you said, but you are right, it is more work. But I am OK with some manual work at the level I usually play the game (battalion and below). Of course, If I was playing a game at the regiment level, all of that fiddling would make the game a bit of a monster.

Does the AI have problems, sure.  But none of these rise to the level where I can't play the game or where it affects the "fun" factor.

I am also now curious to play some of the hand built scenarios...just to see if there are any differences.

Don't get me wrong, the game is not everything I want (multiplayer support would be very nice for example). But for anyone who got the game on sale for $25, I think the game is an incredible bargain.


 :clap:
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline z1812

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #304 on: January 14, 2021, 06:51:31 PM »
I just bought the game yesterday. In many ways it reminds me very much of TAC OPS, but with much better graphics ,combat resolution and combat routines.

I always liked TAC OPs and hoped it would be updated.

Offline Bardolph

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #305 on: January 15, 2021, 10:51:34 PM »
I've been hoping for ages the Major would drop a new, updated TacOps for the faithful. What a great game.

Offline z1812

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #306 on: January 16, 2021, 08:41:54 AM »
I've been hoping for ages the Major would drop a new, updated TacOps for the faithful. What a great game.

Have you tried Armored Brigade? To me it really has the Tac Ops feel.

Offline Zulu1966

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #307 on: January 16, 2021, 10:02:04 AM »
^ I've seen your review before and don't entirely agree with it.  I've found pathfinding to be fine based on order types I used, and you shouldn't be microing squads anyways.

IMO pathfinding is not fine, and if you keep units in platoon formations then individual vehicles will usually take up AWFUL positions. For example, if I order a tank platoon to take up positions along a treeline, inevitably, one vehicle will take a position INSIDE the treeline with no LOS, and the only solution is to break the platoon apart and manually position vehicles (micromanage + induce insane command delay)

Related to a MECH infantry platoons - Squads need to stay close by their vehicles to maintain command radius. That's not how MECH infantry fight in real life.

This game is so unrealistic that is laughable.


But
even if you disregarded the pathfinding issues, then the game still has unbelievable flaws-

Most notably the pointless objectives that hold no tactical value and an enemy AI that just bunches up around objectives and applies no coherent tactics.

"But there's a battle generator where you can set your own Objectives"

Yes, and the AI will still just bunch up around defense objectives or rush into a meeting engagement with zero tactics.

I especially love the random infantry squads that I see laying in open fields.

Good reference for doctrinal templates for offense/defense of WARSAW Pact nations


Pretty much have to agree with all of this. Most rage inducing experience I have had with a wargame. If thats even possible.
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #308 on: January 16, 2021, 01:04:34 PM »
^ I've seen your review before and don't entirely agree with it.  I've found pathfinding to be fine based on order types I used, and you shouldn't be microing squads anyways.

IMO pathfinding is not fine, and if you keep units in platoon formations then individual vehicles will usually take up AWFUL positions. For example, if I order a tank platoon to take up positions along a treeline, inevitably, one vehicle will take a position INSIDE the treeline with no LOS, and the only solution is to break the platoon apart and manually position vehicles (micromanage + induce insane command delay)

Related to a MECH infantry platoons - Squads need to stay close by their vehicles to maintain command radius. That's not how MECH infantry fight in real life.

This game is so unrealistic that is laughable.


But
even if you disregarded the pathfinding issues, then the game still has unbelievable flaws-

Most notably the pointless objectives that hold no tactical value and an enemy AI that just bunches up around objectives and applies no coherent tactics.

"But there's a battle generator where you can set your own Objectives"

Yes, and the AI will still just bunch up around defense objectives or rush into a meeting engagement with zero tactics.

I especially love the random infantry squads that I see laying in open fields.


Pretty much have to agree with all of this. Most rage inducing experience I have had with a wargame. If thats even possible.

Just curious, what are some tactical games you like?
Honus Wagner
"The Flying Dutchman"
Shortstop: Pittsburgh Pirates 1900-1917
Rated as the 2nd most valuable player of all time by Bill James.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #309 on: January 24, 2021, 02:30:23 AM »
I don't understand the wargamer obsession with this game. I think it is a terrible game.

What is even more irritating is that it has had so much potential. I don't think a new factions DLC is going to change anything- more units re-skinned. Big deal.

My review:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999416881/recommended/1089840/

By the way, I noticed an inaccuracy in your review. 

Quote
The game ends whenever a force level is smashed - so the player doesn't even need to accomplish their objectives - just kill enough stuff.

This is wrong.  The custom battle generator has a Victory Point setting which determines victory.  Holding objectives causes the enemy to lose victory points (shown as colored bars at the top) in addition to killing their stuff.  If you're finding that you have to kill everything before VPs run out, try turning down the Victory Points in scenario generation.

I loaded up a quick scenario and turned down the Victory Points a bit just to prove it.  The game gave me a Draw before either side was dead.  Before the VPs ran out I managed to grab 2 objectives out of 3, at a high cost of casualties that helped balance out my higher VP total from holding objectives.  As you can see from the AAR, the AI did put a number of guys in the objectives, but also spread out in fairly logical defensive positions around them.  I got chewed up on the approach to objectives more than the objectives themselves, so I still don't think your review holds much water in this regard.  I agree the AI is pretty weak in Meeting and when they Attack, which is why I exclusively play as the Attacker myself.... But this is also true of Combat Mission, Close Combat, etc.



« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 02:49:00 AM by al_infierno »
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline Veitikka

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    • Armored Brigade
Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #310 on: February 09, 2021, 09:25:39 AM »
Czechoslovakia and Netherlands will be arriving on Matrix stores and on Steam on February 25th as part of the third Nation Pack.

Have a look at some of the most iconic units:

https://www.matrixgames.com/news/armored-brigade-nation-pack-czechoslovakia-netherlands-iconic-units