Author Topic: Combat Mission status  (Read 55581 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Tuna

  • Condottieri
  • ******
  • Posts: 3016
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #675 on: December 30, 2018, 02:02:59 PM »
No, I bought at GamersGate as well.. had to buy an 'upgrade' to get the other modules.

Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 13205
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #676 on: December 30, 2018, 04:12:27 PM »
Been playing a lot of CMSF2, CMFI, CMRT and CMBN, and what I'm finding is that in the WWII themed titles, my units seem to be breaking and running with a frustrating frequency. I've observed this behavior across several different scenarios involving multiple nationalities, but always involving well equipped and trained units with strong morale. This tends to happen when moving under fire and it also seems to happen once the unit arrives at the intended location; usually inside of a building, or at a position of cover that I intended to use as a base for fire. In other words, it typically does not happen on the way to the objective. They arrive, turn around and run away. 

Yes, the units are under fire and yes, they on some occasions took a casualty or two, but it still seems unusual that they would get to their objective and then leave the security of the position to get shot in the back. They take far heavier casualties when running away, then they do when running toward the objective, or when they are actually at the specified locale.  I do not observe the enemy AI reacting to fire this way.

Is it me? Am I doing something wrong? I feel like I am using relatively sound tactics and am not asking the troops to do anything out of the ordinary, aside from the usual orders to risk their lives for God and country.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 04:15:46 PM by Jarhead0331 »
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Offline IronX

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • Graphics Grog
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #677 on: December 30, 2018, 05:00:14 PM »
I've mainly been playing CMSF2, but it was one of the first things I noticed when my Marines broke and ran after one man got shot. It's frustrating to watch several men get shot in the back because of one or two casualties. This seems to happen much more frequently than it did in previous versions.

Also, I noticed that the squads in the game go through way more ammunition than before. I'm now having to resupply them by going into an IFV/APC to acquire more ammo.

Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 13205
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #678 on: December 30, 2018, 05:47:27 PM »
^besides being frustrating, itís also unrealistic. Marines donít break and run.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Offline JasonPratt

  • Arquebusier
  • ***
  • Posts: 17837
  • Now let us see what the future will bring...
    • The Evangelical Universalist
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #679 on: December 30, 2018, 06:03:27 PM »
Except toward the enemy. HOORAH!!  :cowboy:
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline IronX

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • Graphics Grog
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #680 on: December 30, 2018, 07:31:48 PM »
Exactly. They reacted more like I would expect from militia. Panicked troops also run in odd directions, at times closer to the enemy, which cannot be corrected by the player. It needs to be fixed. If they are going to run, they should probably pop smoke first and then head for cover.

Offline sandman2575

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 2156
  • Poet Warrior in the Classical Sense...
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #681 on: December 30, 2018, 09:00:26 PM »
The brittle infantry issue with troops breaking easily under heavy fire is by now a longstanding issue -- pretty sure it was introduced in the 4.0 engine, which is getting on 2 years old now.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/124998-infantry-breaking-to-easily-in-40/

There were reports of a patch 'on the way' but to my knowledge that patch was never released.

I do think it's a major problem -- endemic to all CMx2 modules that have the 4.0 engine upgrade, so not just Shock Force II, but Red Thunder, Battle for Normandy, etc. etc.  I've been playing a lot of Red Thunder of late, and it's the exact same issue. I'm just kind of putting up with it, but at some point it's going to prevent me from continuing.

Of course, if you search around the CMx2 forums, you will find the usual stalwarts who insist this is 'working as designed' and that it's 'more realistic' and so on. I personally think that's nonsense but reasoned debate has a way of breaking down very quickly over in them parts of the internets...


EDIT -- sorry JH, missed that you mentioned it's in all the titles, not just Shock Force. But in any event, very much just confirming that I'm seeing what you're seeing in terms of problematic infantry behavior.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 09:05:45 PM by sandman2575 »

Offline sandman2575

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 2156
  • Poet Warrior in the Classical Sense...
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #682 on: December 30, 2018, 09:12:16 PM »
A little more digging in the forums yields this from the devs, in regard to a patch to the 4.0 engine and specifically the infantry issue:

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/126860-update-on-engine-4-patches/

  "   5 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

    Thanks for the update! Sounds like summer is going to be quite the season of releases. Very much looking forward to it all!

    Can you elaborate at all on what the patch will be fixing/tweaking?

Oooo... good question!  Well, the one I can say for sure is fixed is the one you are most concerned with.  And that is TacAI behavior in relation to enemy fire and cover (in particular Fortifications).  What looked to be a fairly straight forward and binary problem instead turned out to be something that was very nuanced and difficult to pin down.  Sure, we made improvements pretty quickly, but there were all kinds of corner cases where things didn't work as intended or in fact were made worse by the fixes.  It took quite a long time to get a handle on it and develop fixes (plural) to address the underlying problems.  Not surprisingly, the root of this came from the Game Engine 4 feature that introduced proactive TacAI behavior under fire. "


-- Of course, this was said back in June...  ::)

Offline MOS:96B2P

  • Equites
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #683 on: December 30, 2018, 09:30:34 PM »
The running away behavior was suppose to have been fixed for the CMSF2 release.  I've been playing mostly SF2 lately and have not noticed a problem.  However all the other titles, with the exception of CM Afghanistan, still need to be patched for the running behavior.  Since the behavior is now fixed in one title hopefully the fix will be introduced to the remaining titles soon.

Then after that patch I think they have a CM Fortress Italy Rome to Victory module coming out.   :)     

Offline IronX

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • Graphics Grog
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #684 on: December 30, 2018, 10:22:50 PM »
It doesnít appear to me to be fixed (well) in CMSF2. I donít know about the fortifications issue, but in general troops will flee easily and retreat in odd directions. Of course, thatís not to say this happens all the time, but it certainly does happen in this title.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 10:31:35 PM by IronX »

Online Pete Dero

  • Condottieri
  • ******
  • Posts: 2526
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #685 on: December 31, 2018, 02:26:21 AM »
No, I bought at GamersGate as well.. had to buy an 'upgrade' to get the other modules.

I checked my orders on the Battlefront site and can't find any upgrade.
In 2008 I have my Gamersgate purchase for the base game and later that year I paid $ 25 for the first module.

Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 13205
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #686 on: December 31, 2018, 05:08:01 AM »
It doesnít appear to me to be fixed (well) in CMSF2. I donít know about the fortifications issue, but in general troops will flee easily and retreat in odd directions. Of course, thatís not to say this happens all the time, but it certainly does happen in this title.

My personal experiences with CMSF2 have thankfully not been frustrated by this issue. In the scenarios Iíve run, I just havenít seen it, so if it is still there, I havenít been able to replicate it, or it is not as obvious. In the WWII titles, on the other hand, the problem is frequent and annoying as hell. Iím very disappointed too because I really have the urge to dig into these games again, and I just finally bought CMFI, but this single issue is ruining the entire experience for me.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Offline Yskonyn

  • Landsknecht
  • *******
  • Posts: 3800
  • The Flying Dutchman
    • Visit my blog: Yassy HQ for various things combat simulation.
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #687 on: December 31, 2018, 05:20:06 AM »
Yes, dissapointingly at the BFC forums, people get sent to stand in the corner if you express any discontent about the patch taking so long. The issue is made out to be a much smaller issue than it actually is by some or (and I like this one best) you get told to just downgrade to the 3.0 engine.

I get that the issue might be hard to tackle and I am very happy to see CMSF2 isn't having the issue, or at least not glaringly so.
But the fact remains that the WW2 titles have had this issue for a long time now, effectively shutting down gameplay for quite a few people, including me.

CMSF2 is the only title I play at the moment and it's great to see it has made CM great again!
But personally I find it extremely annoying that the older titles have been left like this for so long.
The game Jason and I started was put on hold for the very same reason. How long ago now? Pfff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 05:22:18 AM by Yskonyn »
"(...) running a group thing online can be a little like herding cats :P" - mirth

Offline mikeck

  • Condottieri
  • ******
  • Posts: 3266
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #688 on: December 31, 2018, 09:24:14 AM »
Is it only affecting WW2 titles? Wondering if anyone has experienced it with Black Sea?
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 13205
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Combat Mission status
« Reply #689 on: December 31, 2018, 11:16:52 AM »
Is it only affecting WW2 titles? Wondering if anyone has experienced it with Black Sea?

I think it impacts everything running on the 4.0 engine, except for CMSF2. I'll check out CMBS.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18