Author Topic: Starship troopers?  (Read 5469 times)

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Offline Destraex

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2019, 04:48:38 PM »
MOS if you never read it, that also precludes you from reading it in the future. Take it off your list :P
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2019, 04:55:54 PM »
aggressors that were trying to destroy humanity.

I think you need to rewatch the movie my dude, it's pretty clearly hinted that the humans were the aggressors and the bugs were retaliating.  Then again, based on the rest of your post, it sounds to me like you would prefer the book over the movie.

Thanks.  I never read the book.  I'll put it on my list.  Did you like the book?

I admit I was cheering for humanity during the movie.

Hell, I still cheer for humanity every time I watch it ;)  I'm not saying you're wrong for liking them, the Mobile Infantry are fuckin badass and I'll lap up any chance to play them in a game.  I just think it's missing the point a bit to take their propaganda claims at face value is all.

I love the book, I think it's a SF classic.  Later editions are a bit long-winded due to Heinlein adding back in some political speeches that editors cut out of the initial publishings.  In the same genre, I personally like Forever War by Joe Haldeman a bit better because it's shorter, and it has the awesome themes of time dilation and the allegory of vietnam vets returning to a home that's completely different than what they left -- except in space, and with hundreds of years passing.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
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Offline MOS:96B2P

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2019, 05:02:13 PM »
It has been a long time since I saw the movie.  It didn't make a big impression since the special effects etc were not that great as I recall.  So I was probably wrong about the bugs I guess?  Learn something everyday.  Maybe I'll have watch it again and refresh my memory. 

I was surprised to read that Verhoeven was anti-military since I thought (as I can remember) it was a military movie that showed the military fighting the good fight.  Then the ironic part was the following and now a PC game.  The PC game doesn't look anti-military from what I can tell.  So I don't think he accomplished his goal. 

Is the book not good to read?  Just never bothered since I saw the movie (many years ago).         

Offline The_Admiral

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2019, 05:09:20 PM »
Honestly, I got to watch the movie a few months after 9.11, and the parallel was sort of striking.
To think of it, the plot similarities are uncanny to the point it is scary, from the shock of the asteroid strike all the way to the end battle in the cave system... My young mind was left with quite an impression then, and still is, now that we know how the story IRL unraveled itself.

Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2019, 05:10:19 PM »
The book is a good and short read.  It's a lot more politics than action, most of it is spent in a classroom and it's mostly a debate on civilian vs military rule, but it's an interesting book. 

Verhoeven absolutely wanted to make the humans exciting, square jawed prototypical heroes, fighting what you're told is an evil genocidal race.  He wanted to paint what he saw as bad guys as good guys, sometimes not obviously.  Essentially, he wanted to troll people that read the movie as a straight, heroic action film. 

Some quotes from him on it..

"It’s an idiotic story: young people go to fight bugs. So I felt the human characters should have a comic-book look. Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned, but I was looking for the prototype of blond, white and arrogant, and Casper Van Dien was so close to the images I remembered from Leni Riefenstahl’s films. I borrowed from Triumph of the Will in the parody propaganda reel that opens the film, too. I was using Riefenstahl to point out, or so I thought, that these heroes and heroines were straight out of Nazi propaganda. No one saw it at the time. I don’t know whether or not the actors realised – we never discussed it. I thought Neil Patrick Harris arriving on the set in an SS uniform might clear it up."

 “Here are your heroes and your heroines, but by the way – they’re fascists.”

Offline MOS:96B2P

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2019, 05:14:39 PM »
The book is a good and short read.  It's a lot more politics than action, most of it is spent in a classroom and it's mostly a debate on civilian vs military rule, but it's an interesting book. 

Verhoeven absolutely wanted to make the humans exciting, square jawed prototypical heroes, fighting what you're told is an evil genocidal race.  He wanted to paint what he saw as bad guys as good guys, sometimes not obviously.  Essentially, he wanted to troll people that read the movie as a straight, heroic action film. 

Some quotes from him on it..

"It’s an idiotic story: young people go to fight bugs. So I felt the human characters should have a comic-book look. Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned, but I was looking for the prototype of blond, white and arrogant, and Casper Van Dien was so close to the images I remembered from Leni Riefenstahl’s films. I borrowed from Triumph of the Will in the parody propaganda reel that opens the film, too. I was using Riefenstahl to point out, or so I thought, that these heroes and heroines were straight out of Nazi propaganda. No one saw it at the time. I don’t know whether or not the actors realised – we never discussed it. I thought Neil Patrick Harris arriving on the set in an SS uniform might clear it up."

 “Here are your heroes and your heroines, but by the way – they’re fascists.”

Thanks.  Interesting stuff.  I had no idea about this part of the book & movie.   

Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2019, 05:27:33 PM »
You guys are reaaaally reading into all this, rightfully or not. In my view, it's just a damn fun action movie about humans fighting aliens from outer space. Reading too much into it and the statement or message the creator might have been trying to make takes away some of the enjoyment at a certain point. Drawing parallels with current affairs and history is cool for the sake of discussion, but not at the risk of detracting from the film, games, IP , etc. The ultimate goal is to enjoy the medium, even if intended to also cause thought and reflection.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 05:29:19 PM by Jarhead0331 »
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2019, 05:37:42 PM »
JH I respectfully disagree -- I love Starship Troopers as a fun action movie and simultaneously love dissecting the layers/details that the director included to subtly hint at an underlying theme that isn't outright stated.  There's certainly a point of over-thinking it that can reduce the discussion to absurdity, but I don't think the discussion here falls into that category yet.  Starship Troopers a genuinely well-layered movie that can also still be enjoyed for what it is on the surface. 
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2019, 06:10:51 PM »
Yeah, I enjoy all the readings of it.  I think adding layers makes it more fun. 

Same with Robocop and Total Recall.

The exception I take with readings on it is that it's just a "bad" movie.   I absolutely don't think it is in any way. 

I look forward to a game on it, especially if they go a but satirical nuts with it, but I'll take it straight too.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 06:14:25 PM by SirAndrewD »

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2019, 06:45:39 PM »
I read "Starship Troopers" probably twice, the most recently in 1975 or so.  I would classify it as juvenile science fiction.  However, I liked it then, and still would recommend it as light reading. It did win the Hugo award soon after publication, so it isn't a bad book.  I don't recall it being fascistic.  Heinlein was clearly arguing that the voting franchise be earned by a period of service to society.  He was also arguing against some of the lack of discipline he was seeing in US society in the 1950's.  If I recall, the society he invented did not require military service: any service would do, and that anyone who wanted to serve could, and thereby gain the franchise.  Nor did he argue that people who didn't serve had fewer rights (except the right to vote and hold public office).  Because of this, I don't think of the society he created was fascistic.  Certainly, his other books show no sympathy to fascism, and his experience in the US military as a naval officer in the 1930's, while likely giving him a favorable opinion of military service, would have been unlikely to have given him a favorable opinion of fascism.

Edit: Apparenlty, Heinlein considered himself a libertarian. 
Interesting Factoid: Heinlein apparently was one of the sources of inspiration behind the USN's Combat Information Center (CIC) concept.
 His ideas were used by his USNA classmate. RADM Cal Laning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_information_center)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:00:57 PM by Tripoli »

Offline jomni

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2019, 07:14:38 PM »
Back to regular programming



Offline Destraex

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2019, 08:48:30 PM »
Looks ok. But I wonder whether putting the infantry in power armour like I think the books had them in would have been better?
Also unless the game takes the animated series into account, the units you can use will be minimal.
Also I hear their is no multiplayer?

The Music in starship troopers, the movie, was always one of my favourite scores.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roughnecks:_Starship_Troopers_Chronicles#Earth_forces

In the show, there are various technologies used by SICON and the Skinnes:

Starships - Small city-like vessel that troopers consider their home-away-from home. They are equipped with hyperspace drives, subspace communicators, missiles, lasers and ballistics, including sensors that can detect movement of other crafts in other systems.
Dropship - A small type of ship that can drop and pickup troopers on planets. They are equipped with guns at the cockpit.
Marauder - A mecha-like exoskeleton that stands 10 ft. tall and walks faster than a human. Marauders are piloted by a single soldier and offer more firepower and augmented physical strength, at the cost of a limited power supply. There are two kinds, the "Duck" and the "Ape."
Morita Smart Rifle - The standard issue weapon for all SICON troopers. Capable of fully automatic or single-round fire.
Shock Stick - A staff weapon capable of delivering a powerful, usually non-lethal electric shock. Many troopers carry shock sticks as a back-up weapon for their rifles.
Fighter - A small, short-ranged craft armed with missiles and machine guns used primarily for air-to-air combat to provide cover for ground troops. Crewed by one or two people. Capable of operating in space or planetary atmosphere.
Bomber - Similar to the fighter, but with explosive payloads instead of weapons. Used to destroy large groups of ground-based enemies or enemy strongholds.
Troop Transport - A six-wheeled transport used by troopers.
Flatbed - This is only shown on Pluto. It is in the remains of an older station on Pluto from before Operation Pest Control.
Drop suit - A heavily armored suit that is capable of keeping the occupant alive while being dropped to a planet's surface from orbit.
Skimmer - A hovering transport, this is capable of going on both water and land and was even shown to have flight abilities. Having no personal offensive capabilities, it relies on personnel to fire from the open deck of the ship.
Jet ski/Raft - A single-person transport used in water.
WASP flier - A one-manned flying unit that is capable of low level flight. Razak attempts to strap two others to it, but it is unable to hold the weight.
Submersible - Similar to the troop transport, but for under water instead of over land.
Power Suit - Standard-issue armor for S.I.C.O.N. soldiers. Has an air-tight seal, a self-contained air recycling system, radio, and flotation device. M.I. troopers (as opposed to fleet pilots) also have jet-packs for short flights and a flip-down visor with zoom, thermal imaging, and assisted-targeting.
Grappling gun - Also known as Lizard Lines. These guns fire drills with lines attached to them, and are capable of carrying great amounts of weight. Two are capable of carrying a Marauder and two power suited soldiers.
Rocket Launcher - Packing more firepower than the rifles, the shoulder-mounted rocket launchers have a five-rocket magazine, each capable of destroying man-sized targets while injuring or destroying enemies close to the primary target. Rockets can be substituted for small nuclear missiles capable of destroying plasma bugs and wounding other large enemies.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 09:05:32 PM by Destraex »
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Offline ExWargamerJoe

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2019, 02:51:58 AM »
Starship Troopers is one of the finest pieces of entertainment of all time which is a Fact(TM). It's right up there with Zulu being the greatest war film of all time (another FACT(TM)).

I remember reading the book once many years after I'd seen the film and I found it rather dry, I haven't gone back to it since. From what I remember though (and apologies if this has already been stated as I haven't read the whole thread) the people who made the film came up with a more generic 'Bug Hunt' concept first, and then someone told them there was an old sci-fi book that was similar, so they then bought the rights to use the IP and back-filled in some of the political stuff.

So while it's impossible to know if it would have made a difference to how the movie turned out, it didn't start it's life as a ST adaptation so I'm tempted to side with JH on and suggest that perhaps you can read too much into the film's portrayal of events. The book is where all the subtext really is.

Coming back to the game, it's worth noting that since this is a license deal, it's possible that Slitherine are going to be restricted in what they can and can't cover. They had a lot of freedom with the BSG license in terms of creating new ships and a canon story, but they may not have the same freedom here.
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Offline Anguille

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2019, 04:16:45 AM »
This game is going to be fun!

I did like the movie (really liked the ships as well, too bad they are not going to be in the game). The society in the movie is rather fascist or militarist (clearly not the Federation kind of society).  I didn't read the books but i think that the bugs were actually the victims trying to defend themselves. I've always been wondering about the similarity with Conquest: frontier wars...


Offline Destraex

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Re: Starship troopers?
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2019, 05:39:05 AM »
A question for those that have read the novel. Was every "mobile" infantryman equipped with a power armour suit and did they all have jetpacks?
https://starshiptroopers.fandom.com/wiki/Powered_armor
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