Author Topic: Another Super Virus from China  (Read 19359 times)

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Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #615 on: May 20, 2020, 06:16:42 PM »
US debt is just about at the level it was in 1946...

That's worth exploring in detail. Is there a good website for specifics?

Here is a handy dandy chart of US debt vs Gross Domestic Product going before WW2 to the present.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-debt-and-deficit-projections-hit-records/

In general, in the last 30 years it is driven by spending.  Taxes as a percentage of GDP is lower than the 30 year running average - but not that much lower.  Spending has exploded.

Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #616 on: May 20, 2020, 06:18:51 PM »
I’d like to hear more about Cuomo’s stupidity.

The article I linked to earlier has specifics comparing Florida and New York.  New York Times among other sources have documented the State of NY deciding to send recovering virus patients to recovery centers and long term care facilities over the objections of the managers.  Death toll in NY State is heavily concentrated on nursing home patients - as it is most other States.  NY just did it much worse.

Offline em2nought

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #617 on: May 20, 2020, 06:37:03 PM »
Florida & Sweden did opposite from most places - quarantine the nursing home people and not shut down businesses by arbitrary "essential" or not.  Both have done well and will do much better long-term economically.

Florida's economy is mostly dependent on tourism so I sure hope you're correct.

Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #618 on: May 21, 2020, 09:45:19 PM »
I’d like to hear more about Cuomo’s stupidity.

This is an article about Cumo's specifics on ORDERING covid patients into rehab facilities and nursing homes.  This is from NBC - which has a strong leftist tilt and the facts are damning. 

This is utterly tragic and led to a lot of needless deaths by government fiat.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-spreads-new-york-nursing-home-forced-take-recovering-patients-n1191811

Offline Pete Dero

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #619 on: May 22, 2020, 11:29:52 AM »
If the drug is so deadly, where all the deaths from the past-- 40+ years of use? The military uses it routinely to treat it's members over seas. Or is this just myth sold by Snake-Oil Salesmen? You're saying it's deadly used for one treatment but not for another. The reason? People are taking it incorrectly or with the Z-Pak which does cause irregular heartbeat on occasion. That's why you should, repeat, ASK YOUR DOCTOR before taking anything. If he says as your wife does, it'll kill you--then don't take it. But I see ER Doctors treating Covid patients who have and are taking it preventatively as well as nurses too. And they're all still alive.  :o  And doctors who've given it to their patients for Covid and SOME, not all, have had very positive results from it. So you can't just dismiss the whole subject out of hand because you don't agree with it lest you risk missing a treatment that may help some people.  :idiot2:  The Medical field depends on open-minded thinking to treat all diseases as should we all as well.
You are confusing cohorts of patient populations
Its why people are struggling to understand basic pharmacology and why we do three phases of clinical trials to determine efficacy in different patient populations.
The logic you are using is OK for military = all american population (children/sick/elderly/morbid/ etc).
The military (fit above average exercise and good weight, predominantly young, good medical access) from a physiological standpoint is probably only representative of less than 10% of the US population

Con

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-coronavirus-drug-cocktail-linked-to-45-higher-death-risk-says-major-study

The study published Friday in the medical journal the Lancet, shows that this cocktail of drugs—hydroxychloroquine plus a macrolide antibiotic such as azithromycin—is linked to a 45 percent increased risk of death and a more than quadrupled risk of a serious heart arrhythmia. The study looked at 96,000 hospitalized virus patients around the world and found that, overall, those given hydroxychloroquine had a 34 percent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 percent increased risk of a serious heart arrhythmia. “It’s one thing not to have benefit, but this shows distinct harm,” said Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute. “If there was ever was hope for this drug, this is the death of it.”

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

Offline Gusington

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #620 on: May 23, 2020, 07:24:00 AM »
Yeah the NY nursing home story made it pretty big around here yesterday, in left leaning outlets like the NY Times and CNN too. But Cuomo is riding such a high right now, I doubt it will do much damage, as tragic and incomprehensible as it is.
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Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #621 on: May 23, 2020, 07:53:54 AM »
Much the same thing happened in N.J. and Illinois that I've heard reported. I saw my doctor Wednesday and even though I've had no symptoms of the disease he tested me anyway. He said the government covered the cost so why not? With so many people being tested now, I think we'll all turn-up positive at some point. I'm on the 'Alcohol-Based Preventative Treatment' at the moment. It may not work but you're still happy about it anyway.  <:-)
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #622 on: May 23, 2020, 10:54:24 AM »
I'm on the 'Alcohol-Based Preventative Treatment' at the moment. It may not work but you're still happy about it anyway.  <:-)

I think we are on the same maintenance program.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #623 on: May 23, 2020, 11:54:21 AM »
I definitely was yesterday. Cheers!
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Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #624 on: May 23, 2020, 12:33:12 PM »
This is my last comment on the disease itself unless profoundly different data arise.  There is a lot of hard data now on transmission, mortality rates by age, and the overall mortality rate by age cohort.  "Models" are predictions about the future.  Almost all of them were terribly wrong.  Mass media and politicians went wild with fear.



50%+ of the people who get it never even know they had it.

If you are under 20 or so, you are more likely to die from being struck by lightning during the last three months and to die of Covid.  Closing schools was irrational.

If you are under 60, the death rate or serious (hospitalization rate) was minimal.  Less than car accidents.

In the West, most of the deaths were in nursing homes. 

The deaths are concentrated among the elderly, especially the very old with multiple health conditions.

However, if you are in a nursing home your mortality rate is about 30% ANNUALLY under normal conditions.  [Another way of looking at it - if you are in a nursing home you are not likely to be alive three years later].  Covid did kill a lot of people in nursing homes, but the deaths were concentrated among those with very short life expectancies.  Regular flu kills tens of thousands annually in nursing homes under normal conditions.  If the political leadership was especially stupid, like in New York, then the death rate was much higher in nursing homes.

The death toll was much higher for those with multiple, serious, underlying conditions.  But the death rate from everything is higher if you have multiple, serious, underlying conditions.  I'm one of those people (diabetes & heart disease) which is why I'm financially planning for my wife to live to 100 and for me to live to 80.  I think I have 22 years left if the population odds hold].

The madness of crowds struck the world.  Governments made very bad decisions.  The economic harm from this is catastrophic.  The death, disease, and misery caused by a massive worldwide economic calamity is horrible.

Within 2 years, everyone will be claiming that they were one of the ones who did not panic, did not want to shut down the economy, and they will blame this catastrophe of humanity on their favorite scapegoats.

This is not to say that having the flu is enjoyable for anyone.  I'm not saying that those who died will not be mourned or that it was tragic that so many died alone.  And I'm not saying that the unfortunates who were unlucky to die even though they were not elderly or had serious health issues were irrelevant.  We pray for the souls of the departed every week.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  Predicting the future is always fraught with error.  But this is my take on what has happened already and what is going to happen in the next 24 months.  I've been going to the gym, church and bars.  I wear a mask when I'm out with the general public - but this is to put others at ease because I sneeze & cough all of the time because of my horrid allergies.  Also, if I'm one of the legion of silent carriers then the mask will reduce transmission rates to others.   But I'm a lot more concerned about dying from a car accident than I am from dying with covid - as someone with heart stents and diabetes.




Offline em2nought

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #625 on: May 24, 2020, 11:50:47 AM »

The study looked at 96,000 hospitalized virus patients around the world
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

They're doing it wrong(on purpose?),  It's not a drug for after you're sick enough to be in the hospital.  It's a preventative like Vitamin D or Vitamin C.

Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #626 on: June 03, 2020, 08:06:20 AM »
Unfortunately, it looks like the medical journals may have been suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.  The drug he was touting was debunked by a study in Lancet & another medical journal - but the study appears to have been fraud.  The "researchers" were an unknown group that it is now determined had at most 6 employees, one was a porn star, anther a science fiction writer, and the author was someone who has been nailed for malpractice.  The leftist UK paper the Guardian is the source of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine

Con may have been wrong (although the sources he used are usually good) and Sir. Slash may have been right.

For me, it is embarassing that an otherwise sane medical journal is stooping to publishing garbage because of politics.  It is also nutty that the President is touting a treatment that was not vetted by the primary medical advisors - so there you go.  I know nothing about chemistry aside from what I had in High School - my understanding of medical research are meta-analyses and population demographic studies and other statistical analyses of largely descriptive data - which is well in my wheelhouse.  Con & Sir Slash have the pharmacy & biology background.


Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #627 on: June 03, 2020, 08:38:50 AM »
As a nurse for the better part of 25+ years, I can tell you there are NO completely safe drugs, and any drug can kill you if you have an allergy to it. So Con's right that that drug could kill people, especially with the Z-Pak added in. That's why you should ASK YOUR DOCTOR, as I said previously before you take anything.

My Wife's far more conservative than me about the Corona Virus, staying at home, wearing a mask, and disinfecting everything and everyone coming & going. That's why I was proud to tell her my doctor gave me the Covid Test my last visit and I, the one she tells me is taking too many risks, tested Negative for the virus. She's also happy, to take credit for saving my life by doing all of the above. You can beat Covid but, you can't beat a quick-witted woman.  O:-)
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Offline airboy

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #628 on: June 03, 2020, 09:47:07 AM »
^You made your boss happy.  You won! :bd:

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Another Super Virus from China
« Reply #629 on: June 03, 2020, 09:19:53 PM »
I ALWAYS keep the Boss happy.  :notworthy:
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.