Author Topic: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?  (Read 572 times)

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Offline Destraex

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Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« on: July 27, 2020, 08:17:01 PM »
This is just for tank crew and specifically with regard to the tiger and panther sights. So far I have only been able to find a blurry photo of the panther D sight and a tiger 1 sight. I want to see how small the triangles appear to a person.

This is the best I have been able to find:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CASRBLzraGvbHAftflCU_T6IBEMctvf6ssj2bk_QpRk/edit#gid=1266323588
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 02:14:35 AM by Destraex »
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Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 09:34:24 AM »
Googling Zeiss optics did not return any useful results?
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Offline Destraex

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 04:51:27 AM »
No. What usually pops up are a few training manuals and drawings rather than what the gunner actually saw and how small the triangles looked to the gunner. Apparently it was low on peoples priority list to take pictures of.
You can get pictures of games using the sight and also pictures of the mechanical exterior of the metal sight tube. But nothing of the inside.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 04:55:41 AM by Destraex »
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Offline RyanE

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 06:57:32 AM »
From Osprey Duel books #80 and #13.

Tiger is the single and Panther is the double.  They are not pics, but CGIs.  They also show an enemy tank at a known distance as a reference. The books have good descriptions of how they work and how overly complicated they were.

I own digital copies of both books, but I bet you can find them around in various online formats.

Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 07:21:09 AM »
PzKpfw IV Ausf. D tank 2.5-power Leitz TZF5b (Turmzielfernrohr) monocular telescopic gun sight


Panther Ausf. G tank TFZ 12a monocular telescope


Good link for info, but watch out...there are some dirty pop-ups.

https://publicism.info/history/armored/1.html

No good sight pictures, but good info. here for further research

https://panzerworld.com/german-armor-optics#tank-gun-sights
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 07:27:36 AM by Jarhead0331 »
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Offline Destraex

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 08:27:11 PM »
Thanks guys will look properly when I get home.
Jarhead your second sight pic looks like one of ryanE’s pictures. Except it is black and white?
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Offline Destraex

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 04:04:42 AM »
ok. Yeah. Pretty sure all of those pics above are osprey artists drawings made with CGI.
I am betting like a lot of old history books, that their is potential for publications to simply propagate other books myths without ever seeing the primary evidence. That is not to say that I don't think either tank crew the game or osprey have got it wrong. Let me explain.

This whole thing started because a friend of mine who got the game when he saw I had it, complained that he thinks the triangles on the German tanks should be larger. He just did not understand how the triangle could be useful to the gunner if it was so small. Now my friend is over 60 and I suspect he just has trouble see such a small object when "he" is aiming. None the less he is just as much a grognard as any of us here and he does love to count rivets. He will not be happy until I prove that the game is correct and he is wrong.
This means primary evidence. Then I can relax and enjoy the game with him until the next problem comes about  :pullhair:
Honestly though, his grog quality is quite endearing and me having to constantly defend tank crew to get him to play quite annoying!

There is the possibility of a Panther being on display in Cairns here in the near future so maybe, depending on how good the tank restoration is, they will be able to shed some light on this question.... although with Covid19 getting worse here at the moment, I don't think I will get to visit for a year or more.
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Offline bobarossa

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 12:11:06 PM »
I imagine it was pretty difficult to take a picture through one of those sights using the camera's of the day.  Maybe you could get someone to visit a tank museum in Europe and talk the curators into letting them get a pic. 

Reminds me of one of my first jobs after college.  We had a project to put a camera into an M60 tank's IR gunsight at Fort Knox (forget the alphabet soup for the armor school there).  The project lead told me there were two sights in the tank so I'm assuming they let us use the IR one.  Apparently they were a little worried since the gunners could hit Lousville suburbs at max elevation (once again what the boss told me).  They wanted the supervisor to be able to see what the gunner was actually aiming at before giving permission to fire.  Best memory from the trip was driving through the base in the boss's Piinto (talk about dangerous) and looking back and seeing an Abrams tank following us.  Doubt he would have even felt a bump running us over. 

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2020, 07:29:00 AM »
The author of Panzer Gunner talks about this in his book but I don't recall if there are any pictures. I can take a look at home tonight.

Offline Destraex

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Re: Anybody got actual photos of german tank sight markings?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2020, 02:57:45 AM »
Appreciated Michael... I am hoping you find some.
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