Author Topic: War in the East 2 could have a rival in the form of an upcoming WDS/JTS title  (Read 1336 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline al_infierno

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Giudecca in the hell of unknowing
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/war-in-the-east-2-jts-wds-game/

OK, sorry to start the thread by being a wet blanket but I have to say - the idea of a WitE-sized John Tiller game is actually feverdream inducing.  If they don't add some sort of post-turn report function and proper tools for managing your OOB I just don't see how a game of this magnitude on that engine would be enjoyable.  I really hope to be proved wrong.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline ArizonaTank

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Honus Wagner - "The Flying Dutchman"
+1 While it sounds interesting, without a major interface upgrade a combined JTS Eastern Front title would be unmanageable. GG got the interface just right for WiTE, making a giant Division level game actually playable in a person's lifetime. I fear that a JTS title, at the Battalion level would be just too much without some serious interface automation.
Honus Wagner
"The Flying Dutchman"
Shortstop: Pittsburgh Pirates 1900-1917
Rated as the 2nd most valuable player of all time by Bill James.

Offline GibbyG

  • Equites
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Reading that blog post it doesn't sound like a whole war game.  Saying it fills a hole in the timeline sounds like just a big Panzer Campaign game covering a certain time period.

Offline Zulu1966

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Reading that blog post it doesn't sound like a whole war game.  Saying it fills a hole in the timeline sounds like just a big Panzer Campaign game covering a certain time period.

Yeah - from the map and what's said doesn't sound at all like a full east front game. so not a competitor at all to the other game.
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

Offline smittyohio

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
If this is actually trying to simulate the entire war on the eastern front from start to finish, it'd require so many new features that have never been in any Tiller game that I'm aware of.   It's one thing to simulate a battle, even a large one, and an entire front for the duration of a war.

Offline Strela

  • Equites
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
Well they say all PR is good PR....

As the guy who actually wrote the original WDS Post, I can say that that the intention was not to build a War in the East competitor.

The full post is here: https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2020/12/30/2020-end-of-year-update/


Here is the applicable FULL paragraph, which was not fully quoted in the Wargamer post:

Panzer Campaigns has been a hive of activity and we are extremely fortunate to have three teams that are actively working on games. There are six (!) games currently in various stages of development. A new team member, Daniel Asensio is working in partnership with Cesar on a large Eastern Front title. Dani had done a huge amount of work before approaching the WDS team and is filling a nice gap in the Panzer Campaigns timeline. Mike Prucha and Dave Michas already had their next title mapped out before Scheldt ’44 was completed. Both are real dynamos, with Mike already having much of the order of battle done and David having completed the largest ever standalone Panzer Campaigns map. The map is over 851,000 hexes in size and for comparison, the previous biggest was Moscow ’42 at just under 244,000 hexes. To blow everyone’s mind on the scale, the following image covers 929,000 hexes, so the new map is equivalent to a big hunk of Russia!

Contiguous Eastern Front Maps:




The statement in red was left out of report which makes it clear that the composite map shown was to show an equivalent sized map to the one being worked on. The bolded statement was the applicable one for the following image.

So in summary, we are working on a monster 851,000 hex map that is the biggest ever Panzer Campaigns map and comparable to all the previous Russia maps (excluding Stalingrad) combined. No where do we say this new map is even in Russia...

So I hope that clarifies. Panzer Campaigns is the wrong engine for a WITE equivalent game and if we go down that path we will use an engine that is appropriately featured.

Thanks,

David
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 04:43:58 AM by Strela »

Offline al_infierno

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Giudecca in the hell of unknowing
^ Well I feel silly for not reading your original post before sharing this.  I place the blame squarely on Wargamer for my lack of fact checking before posting this thread.   :buck2:
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline The_Admiral

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Well they say all PR is good PR....

As the guy who actually wrote the original WDS Post, I can say that this is being reported out of context. (Fake news anyone?  ;D)

Aye! The original achievement in itself is huge nonetheless, and could be the very basis for a great endeavour of another kind after all, but I agree that the way the post was twisted out of its original meaning was peculiar, to say the least. :o

But congratulations on your next game-not-to-be, perhaps it is some sort of not so subtle nudge in a direction we'd all love to see you go, with all that deep, useful knowledge of yours  :coolsmiley:
The work on the AARs & the maps itself is worth bars of gold and will be a great resource to anybody willing to try his luck at game designing a new Eastern front flick.

Offline ExWargamerJoe

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • PCGamesN
I can only apologise if I misinterpreted what I was reading - I did go over it a couple of times but Tiller is not one of my strong suits so I guess I got carried away with the comparison.

I did provide a direct quote of what I thought was the most important part, including the contiguous map sample, but I guess I didn't clock it wasn't mean't to be taken literally.

I will update my copy to reflect this.
Section Editor (Strategy)
PCGamesN

Former editor of The Wargamer & Strategy Gamer

"Determining the appropriate level of interference in somebody else's war is never a simple matter." - Special Circumstances

Offline Strela

  • Equites
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
I can only apologise if I misinterpreted what I was reading - I did go over it a couple of times but Tiller is not one of my strong suits so I guess I got carried away with the comparison.

I did provide a direct quote of what I thought was the most important part, including the contiguous map sample, but I guess I didn't clock it wasn't mean't to be taken literally.

I will update my copy to reflect this.

All,

Firstly, Joe and I have spoken directly. I was out of line posting here, rather than talking and correcting the Wargamer article proactively.

Joe and the Wargamer team have been fantastic supporters of WDS/JTS and in that spirit Joe has immediately reached out to ensure the Wargamer article is factually correct.

I want to publicly apologise to Joe and we are very thankful for the support he and the Wargamer team have given us.

David

Offline The_Admiral

  • Viking
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Supporters of the last true bastions of actual wargaming, that they are  :notworthy:
But as you say there's no bad advertisement, especially when it's about rejoicing about things that don't exist yet, when so many people get criticized for existing stuff instead  :hug:

Offline Eliane2

  • Hoplite
  • *
  • Posts: 1
I hope China is in.

Offline MengJiao

  • Landsknecht
  • *******
  • Posts: 4239
I hope China is in.

  I'd like to see a Chinese JTS game myself.  Maybe a squad-level Boxer thing with magic fist attacks or something.