Falling Frontier - upcoming space RTS

[Millipede]

Hard science sci-fi. Logistics. Realistic size engagements due to economic reality. Early access in June. It all sounds good to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBOreVx6Z1M&feature=emb_rel_end

[W8taminute]

This game looks good.  I'm wishlisting this one for sure.

[hellfish6]

I'd seen this somewhere recently, can't remember where. But it does look very interesting.

[Dammit Carl!]

Sexy!

[bobarossa]

Love everything except the asteroids.  Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space? 

[Destraex]

Z axis?

[Millipede]

Love everything except the asteroids.  Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?

I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.

[Destraex]

ok. Just noticed it's single player. That is a real shame. Traditional RTS games generally have coop vs AI.
Already had this on my wishlist as well. Strange.

[bobarossa]

Love everything except the asteroids.  Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?

I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.

From the University of Warwick  https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/knowledgecentre/science/maths-statistics/starwarsasteroid

"Diagrams of the asteroids show an awful lot of dots jammed into a small ring-shaped region, pretty much bumping into each other. But even the largest asteroid, Ceres, would be totally invisible if its dot were to scale. The asteroid belt spans an awful lot of space, but contains relatively few asteroids. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation bears this out. The asteroid belt lies between 320 million and 480 million kilometres from the Sun. Like the planets, most asteroids orbit close to the same plane, the ecliptic. The total area of the ecliptic occupied by the asteroid belt is about 400 quadrillion square kilometres. If you share that among 150 million rocks, the typical distance between neighbouring asteroids turns out to be 30,000 kilometres. Roughly two and a half times the diameter of the Earth."

I had read something about this years ago.  The typical sci-fi asteroid belt is simply unsustainable.  All those tumbling rock should either clump together from their own gravity or grind themselves into smaller and smaller pieces and become dust. 

[Anguille]

Looks nice.....wait and see

[Millipede]

Love everything except the asteroids.  Why claim hard sci-fi while persisting in creating space terrain that can't exist in actual space?

I may be mistaken but I think that what you're saying is that there're no asteroids in interstellar space because there's nothing for them to orbit. If that's what you're saying, I agree but then again, I assume that all the mining and battles etc. are taking place within various solar systems. As I said, I may be mistaken or misunderstand your point.

From the University of Warwick  https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/knowledgecentre/science/maths-statistics/starwarsasteroid

"Diagrams of the asteroids show an awful lot of dots jammed into a small ring-shaped region, pretty much bumping into each other. But even the largest asteroid, Ceres, would be totally invisible if its dot were to scale. The asteroid belt spans an awful lot of space, but contains relatively few asteroids. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation bears this out. The asteroid belt lies between 320 million and 480 million kilometres from the Sun. Like the planets, most asteroids orbit close to the same plane, the ecliptic. The total area of the ecliptic occupied by the asteroid belt is about 400 quadrillion square kilometres. If you share that among 150 million rocks, the typical distance between neighbouring asteroids turns out to be 30,000 kilometres. Roughly two and a half times the diameter of the Earth."

I had read something about this years ago.  The typical sci-fi asteroid belt is simply unsustainable.  All those tumbling rock should either clump together from their own gravity or grind themselves into smaller and smaller pieces and become dust.

Good info! Thanks.

Edit...

Hmmm... thinking about this a little bit more, both JAXA and NASA have rendezvoused and interacted with asteroids, and the article that you referenced specifically mentions Ceres, so we know asteroids are out there and we know where they are so why is it not possible to mine them and/or use them tactically in combat situations? Again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. 

[hellfish6]

I get the sense that the problem he's got is either just the disproportionate scale and/or the idea that asteroids can be meaningful terrain in space. I tend to agree with the idea that the scale is wrong, but in reality the speeds are all relative, right? I mean how fast does the IIS orbit the earth? Suddenly the 30,000km average distance between asteroids isn't so vast. I'm generally willing to overlook things like this in a game. Weirder for me is seeing 3D space depicted in 2D. Sure, most things orbit on a plane, but there is still above and below the plane, no?

[Phantom]

I'm currently playing High Frontier - a board game based on hard science - take a look at the map for it - https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2585121/high-frontier-third-edition a 2d representation of the solar system with "distances" shown by a mix of orbits/energy required to get there - a work of art (or science) by a real rocket scientist. What I guess I'm saying is that this stuff can be abstracted to a large degree whilst still remaining realistic, at least in game terms.
I'll be following this one.

[bobarossa]

Ever since the original Star Wars came out, movies and games have been using groups of asteroids to provide a space terrain for battles to be fought in.  I'm just saying that for a 'hard-sci-fi" game, this is not realistic.  Groups of asteroids simply aren't that close together.  The game video is showing ships plowing through asteroids during a battle (that will leave a mark) and having enemy ships going in and out of view.  I can see ships playing hide a seek around a single large asteroid but I doubt they could ever experience a battle like in the video.  I'm not saying my problem with asteroid groups is a game killer.  I hope to play the game when it gets farther into development.  The emphasis on logistics reminds me of Aurora where you would worry about running out of missiles during an engagement.

[Millipede]

Ever since the original Star Wars came out, movies and games have been using groups of asteroids to provide a space terrain for battles to be fought in.  I'm just saying that for a 'hard-sci-fi" game, this is not realistic.  Groups of asteroids simply aren't that close together.  The game video is showing ships plowing through asteroids during a battle (that will leave a mark) and having enemy ships going in and out of view.  I can see ships playing hide a seek around a single large asteroid but I doubt they could ever experience a battle like in the video.  I'm not saying my problem with asteroid groups is a game killer.  I hope to play the game when it gets farther into development.  The emphasis on logistics reminds me of Aurora where you would worry about running out of missiles during an engagement.

Okay, gotcha. I completely understand (a little slow on my part) what you're saying and completely agree with your perspective. On the other hand, any developer has to walk that fine line between reality and entertainment. Once the game is released, we'll see how they did.