Author Topic: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?  (Read 839 times)

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Offline devoncop

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Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« on: February 22, 2021, 08:28:37 AM »
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ckii-subscription-service.1457585/#post-27302723

I play a few Paradox games off and on but can't say I am thrilled about this development. Yes, at the minute it is optional but the "auto renew" feature is just wrong.

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Online Tripoli

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2021, 08:39:44 AM »
I think right now it is a non-issue.  If you were interested in CKII, you've already purchased the game and all the mods you wanted, so you won't be subscribing.  If they plan on expanding it to other titles, such as Imperator: Rome, they risk people like me subscribing, realizing the game was bad, and canceling the subscription, losing a small fraction of what the player would have spent on buying the game outright.  Apparently, the subscription is $5/month so right now it isn't worth me paying for CKII.  However, if they were to offer a subscription to CKIII for $5 (or even $10/month), I would probably do it, just to see if I wanted to buy the game.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 08:42:23 AM by Tripoli »

Offline Geezer

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2021, 08:50:46 AM »
After buying a Paradox game I pick and choose the DLC I want so this is a non-issue for me as well.
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Offline Manassassas

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2021, 09:11:39 AM »
Dunno what my personal thoughts are but I suspect there will be quite a few developers watching with interest to see if it works. Subscription services for streaming TV and music have become totally normalised within the span of just a few years (I can't even remember the last time I watched a DVD!) so why not videogames?

Offline Rayfer

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2021, 09:19:28 AM »
Does the $5.00 per month get you access to just that one game or to a host of others as well? I'm not sure I understand how this works.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2021, 09:29:53 AM »
For CK2, the subscription gets you access to all the DLC, from which you can pick and choose what to use as usual (plus picking and choosing which effects from which DLCs to use, as usual).

CK2 itself is free to play now. Presumably this also includes modding, but aside from cosmetic modding I expect all functional modding now works off a late-stage DLC.
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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2021, 09:32:55 AM »
Does the $5.00 per month get you access to just that one game or to a host of others as well? I'm not sure I understand how this works.

it is exclusive to CKII. I can only imagine that this is a trial run to see if it is popular before being expanded to other titles. Probably trying to somehow break into the subscription service craze. I can't really conceive of this making sense for that many people. Perhaps someone who has neither the base game nor any of the DLCs or expansions, and then only to a certain extent for a finite period. Even new players who have never played CKII might not jump on this since the series has moved on to CKIII. Overall, strange idea at a really strange time, but I guess it is always good to have more options...
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Offline devoncop

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2021, 11:21:06 AM »
I can see the advantages if and only if it remains an option.

My concern is for folks who are a little less organised and who sign up and dont monitor their accounts as real life takes over. A huge percent of folk in the UK never switch bank accounts/electricity,gas or insurance providers through ignorance, lack of time or whatever and end up paying hundreds of pounds too much each year as a result.

My concern is that these folk are the target audience.
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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2021, 11:37:32 AM »
I can see the advantages if and only if it remains an option.

My concern is for folks who are a little less organised and who sign up and dont monitor their accounts as real life takes over. A huge percent of folk in the UK never switch bank accounts/electricity,gas or insurance providers through ignorance, lack of time or whatever and end up paying hundreds of pounds too much each year as a result.

My concern is that these folk are the target audience.

I guess...but you can't really put that on Paradox. People have to take personal responsibility for their own money and how it is spent, and so long as Paradox is open and discloses everything without trying to deceive in any way, then they cannot be criticized in my view. if you sign up for something that you know is a monthly service with reoccurring fees that auto-renew unless you cancel, I don't see any problem. Again, it is not something that I find attractive in any sense, but YMMV.
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Offline devoncop

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2021, 12:00:39 PM »
Oh I am 100% in agreement on personal responsibility  being a much ignored principle these days which really needs to come back into fashion so I get your point Jarhead.

What folks need to realise is this model pretty much removes the ability to dip in and out of games you own in your Steam Library...some pretty old whenever you get the urge.

As someone also pointed out on the Paradox forum Crusader Kings 2 had a 4 year development cycle. Assuming CK3 has the same then if they introduce the same thing then a subscriber who wanted to stay with the journey would end up paying over 200.00 and still not own the game or DLC's.

Like you say though customers stand and fall on their own choices in life.

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Offline Dammit Carl!

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2021, 12:03:31 PM »
Subscriptions for a game or game related stuff?  No thanks.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2021, 12:11:44 PM »
To reiterate: anyone can currently own the CK2 game for free without a subscription. This has been true for around (at least?) a year already, with DLC being the paid points (and already being batched together in some cases).

The subscription model, according to the Paradox press release, isn't going to change owning CK2 for free.

It is true however that going forward (on this new subscription strategy) if you don't own the DLC already, you'll only be renting access to them now.

Edited to add: come to think of it, among other previously stated reasons, Paradox might be trying to partly offset CK2 competing against CK3 while still monetizing significant portions of CK2 going forward. Sure, you can rent access to the CK2 DLC, but you won't be able to keep it, whereas (currently) you can keep any DLC for CK3.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 12:14:05 PM by JasonPratt »
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Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2021, 12:16:36 PM »
I don't discount subscription based services in total. I subscribe to the subscription services of EA and Microsoft and have found these to be very worthwhile and economically beneficial. However, these services give you access to nearly their entire catalogues, as well as of new games on release. If Paradox had something similar with a service that gave you access to their entire catalog, plus all new releases, it might start to look a little more attractive to me...even though their releases are sometimes few and far between.
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2021, 12:23:47 PM »
If I was setting up the DLC subscription service for CK2, I'd offer it as a rent-to-own.

I'd establish a new reasonable price point for the entire DLC package (since that's what's being rented), and then let Steam (and other services) track how often an account has paid 'rent' on the package. Once you ever pass the threshold point, even from taking however many breaks on the subscription for however long, then you now own the DLC total package.


....meanwhile, anyone who's like me (and I know I am!  :D ), may be asking yourself, "Hey, if CK2 is free to own now, and its DLC is going into rental mode for new owners, then what about CK1?"

The answer to your question, oh fictional voice in my head, is that Steam is still selling CK Complete for $9.99 when not on sale!  ;D
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline bobarossa

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Re: Paradox fans....what do you think to this ?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2021, 01:33:03 PM »
You could also think of it as a $5 demo.  If you're willing to pay full price for a game when it comes out, you could by 1 month for $5 and then decide if it's worth it. Assuming you can cancel the sub and then buy the game. 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 01:40:15 PM by bobarossa »