Author Topic: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.  (Read 1419 times)

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Online MOS:96B2P

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Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« on: March 26, 2021, 01:22:28 PM »
37mm has released a Vietnam-esque" Super-mod for CMSF2 called Heaven & Earth.  At the bottom of this post I attempted to link a U-Tube video.  This super-mod practically turns CMSF 2 into another CM game family.  It is still in Beta but is available for download, game play and feedback.  It even features working riverine patrol craft.  Very cool.  I'm really looking forward to the final version.       

Some of the content includes:

Four "Bong-Hai Civil War" Era Campaigns-
The 15 mission "Year of the Rat"

A 15 mission People's Militia concept campaign (The Special War).

A conversion of a 7 mission CMA campaign now dubbed Major Nguyens Command.

A 7 mission Urban "conversion" campaign. 

Sixteen "Bong-Hai Civil War" Era scenarios

One Modern era Campaign- Battle of Quy Ly- 4 missions

Nine Modern Era scenarios.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cegG3ZbpFg

Online MOS:96B2P

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2021, 01:25:36 PM »

Offline gregb41352

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2021, 02:38:17 AM »
This looks impressive.  Have to install CMSF2 I suppose.

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2021, 08:44:25 AM »
That looks very cool. River Gun Boats!  :D
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Offline Destraex

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2021, 03:49:34 AM »
I just cannot see a Vietnam game being very interesting outside of first person. Especially considering a lot of the action was patrolling, ambushing and other asymmetric warfare like village clear and searches. Additionally combat mission does not have helicopter landings as far as I am aware. Maps are also too small in combat mission to make it feel like Vietnam.
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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2021, 08:03:55 AM »
This looks impressive.  Have to install CMSF2 I suppose.

Yes, you need CMSF2.  However IMO CMSF2 is well worth it.  It is probably my favorite CM game.  At least it was until Combat Mission Cold War.  There are all kinds of user made scenarios for CMSF2 (most CMSF1 scenarios also work in 2).  These free user made scenarios are set in many locations around the globe (one of the reasons CMCW will also be so much fun).  So not only will you be able to play South East Asian scenarios with this mod but you will have access to many other scenarios set outside of Syria.  In fact you will probably never get around to playing half of them.  I know I haven't and I play often.  There is everything from operation Neptune Spear (the raid to kill Bin Laden) to 3rd World Coup d'etats, hostage rescue/evacuations to scenarios set in Africa and other places.  One designer is also working on a police mod for CMSF2.  More content and newer content still being produced by the community.






   

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2021, 09:29:29 AM »
I just cannot see a Vietnam game being very interesting outside of first person. Especially considering a lot of the action was patrolling, ambushing and other asymmetric warfare like village clear and searches. Additionally combat mission does not have helicopter landings as far as I am aware. Maps are also too small in combat mission to make it feel like Vietnam.

It is a mod pack for South East Asia that can have some similarities to Vietnam if the designer chooses.  The free scenarios and campaigns that have been made for the mod feature many different types of combat.  There is armor action, infantry, urban, jungle, rice paddies etc.  The type of scenario is up to the scenario designer.  So an infantry jungle "patrol" scenario can be created or a clash of two tank companies between two rival SE Asian countries.  To include outside intervention from a superpower nation.  With the editor almost any type of battle is possible.  The mod changes the environment and some equipment (working river patrol craft, etc.) to a SE Asia setting.    There are many, many interesting possibilities with this mod.

The mod is set in CMSF2 which was largely made with asymmetric warfare in mind.  IEDs, VBIEDs, spies, combatants etc.  CMSF2 is the perfect CM title for asymmetric warfare and probably one of the reasons it was chosen for the mod.

Depending on the scenario design some CM maps can be small.  This is usually the case in a modern armor battle scenario on an open map.  When the tanks can literally fire four kilometers from one map edge to the opposite map edge. But this is scenario design decision not a reflection on any mods. 

In the above referred to, stereotypical jungle trail patrol, scenario a CM map is huge.  With jungles, hills, swamps, scattered villages, little to no roads etc.  Some would argue this is the perfect CM infantry type terrain.  In many cases it would probably be a waste of time to build a 16 square kilometer map for such a scenario. 

Although I think it would be a lot of fun having a 16 square Km map.  Imagine a fire base with an infantry company assigned.  The company would be responsible for the 16 Sq. Km. AO.  Patrolling for insurgents, responding to protect the various villages while being careful of IEDs etc.  Protecting the fire base from attack while keeping patrols and ambushes in the field.  Or you can have an urban scenario similar to Hue.  Or an armored border clash.  The possibilities are many and I think interesting.       

The helicopters shown in the screenshots are Flavor Objects and not functional.  Helicopter operations can be simulated in the CM games.  One example is the CMBS scenario Tactical Operations Center (TOC).  Through the use of setup zones a player is given a choice of Landing Zones.  He can use one or all or none (take vehicles / foot instead) of the LZs.  This only works at the start of the scenario.  Reinforcements and supplies can also appear in landing zones during a mission.  Exit zones can be placed in the LZs to move troops / walking wounded / non-combatants out of an LZ.  In fact I'm getting all kinds of interesting ideas for scenarios with this Mod as I type.  ;D :D

Below is an example of helicopter operations from CMBS scenario TOC.  I wish I would have had helicopter Flavor Objects to place on the LZ.  Troops are arriving as reinforcements.  Others are leaving via an Exit Zone (green arrows).  An example of simulated helicopter Ops in a CM title.



And a huge rice paddy map from a scenario in the mod.  Based on a real world battle.  Using the editor even bigger maps than this one are possible.  This scenario also featured an airborne operation.   



A cool and interesting Mod. that a group of scenario designers and Moders spent their free time creating for us for free.  :)
     


Offline Skoop

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2021, 05:54:53 PM »
The mod shows how doable a Vietnam game in cm could be.

Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 08:00:30 AM »
I have never modded a CM game and for some odd reason, I feel no compelling urge to do so...twisted.
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Offline Destraex

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 04:15:42 PM »
It's doable, without the choppers swooping in 3D, but what does it mean? 300 turns before contact and then a blind bush fight?
A defend the firebase scenario? Or an Ambush scenario?

I think the Combat Mission engine only lends itself to conventional warfare. A strategic map is really needed to simulate vietnam properly. To chase the enemy around the strat map. Discover their bases. Vietnam was very much about strategic positioning of troops and mobile deployment of troops rather than set piece engagements.
I know this is simulating an encounter that is already setup, but I just think it would feel like a ww2 battle in hurtgen forest minus the heavy equipment. The enemy is going to stand and fight and you know it because it's CM.

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Offline gregb41352

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 05:04:33 PM »
"There is everything from operation Neptune Spear (the raid to kill Bin Laden) to 3rd World Coup d'etats, hostage rescue/evacuations to scenarios set in Africa and other places.  One designer is also working on a police mod for CMSF2."

Where are such goodies to be found?  The Battlefront website community forums?  I poked around in there some and I couldn't find much.

Offline z1812

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 05:37:48 PM »
"There is everything from operation Neptune Spear (the raid to kill Bin Laden) to 3rd World Coup d'etats, hostage rescue/evacuations to scenarios set in Africa and other places.  One designer is also working on a police mod for CMSF2."

Where are such goodies to be found?  The Battlefront website community forums?  I poked around in there some and I couldn't find much.

Here you are:       https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/cm-mod-warehouse/

There is also the scenario depot:        https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/

Here is the Heaven and Earth Mod      https://community.battlefront.com/topic/138677-heaven-earth-the-peoples-beta/
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 05:41:51 PM by z1812 »

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2021, 07:37:41 AM »
I just cannot see a Vietnam game being very interesting outside of first person. Especially considering a lot of the action was patrolling, ambushing and other asymmetric warfare like village clear and searches. Additionally combat mission does not have helicopter landings as far as I am aware. Maps are also too small in combat mission to make it feel like Vietnam.

A cursory examination of the history of the war shows plenty of conventional force on force encounters of a scale suitable to CM.

Immediately coming to mind are Long Tan (Australian mech infantry assault on a rubber plantation),  Lang Vei (NVA armour versus US special forces camp), Hue City (street fighting during TET), and many of the late war encounters between NVA and ARVN during the final invasions of the south 1973-75. Helicopters were just a way of getting to the battle - Combat Mission: Battle of Normandy has no parachute/glider landings or amphibious assaults, yet the first thing you think of when hearing "Normandy" is the D-Day landings.  Didn't seem to trouble many people that none of that stuff was present in the game. In other words, helicopters are a red herring - the battles I just mentioned didn't involve them.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 07:52:26 AM by Michael Dorosh »

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2021, 07:40:49 AM »
In the above referred to, stereotypical jungle trail patrol, scenario a CM map is huge.  With jungles, hills, swamps, scattered villages, little to no roads etc.  Some would argue this is the perfect CM infantry type terrain.  In many cases it would probably be a waste of time to build a 16 square kilometer map for such a scenario. 

Vietnam had a large mix of terrain types - it wasn't just jungle.  There was plenty of conventional woodland areas very similar to the European terrain depicted by the other CM titles.


Quote
The helicopters shown in the screenshots are Flavor Objects and not functional.  Helicopter operations can be simulated in the CM games.  One example is the CMBS scenario Tactical Operations Center (TOC).  Through the use of setup zones a player is given a choice of Landing Zones.  He can use one or all or none (take vehicles / foot instead) of the LZs.  This only works at the start of the scenario. 

Not necessarily - you could have reinforcements "teleport" into different areas of the map throughout the game, to simulate helicopter landings. You couldn't simulate the effects of ground fire on the aircraft, nor prevent the landings by AA, etc., nor could you control where or when they "landed", but it isn't restricted to scenario start IIRC.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 07:48:02 AM by Michael Dorosh »

Offline z1812

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Re: Combat Mission Shock Force 2 Vietnam-esque Super Mod.
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2021, 12:14:19 PM »
I imagine the reinforcement option could be used to simulate helicopter insertions.