PC Game Review: Panzer Corps Grand Campaign '45 East
http://www.wargamer.com/article/3249...ign-%2745-east
I know it probably shouldn't bother me, but for some reason leaves a bad taste when another site only posts on this site to draw attention to their material.....guess I should just forget about it:)
At first glance, it bothered me too. But then I figure that we all came from there and some of us still check the posts. It's not like it is selling something.
Infiltration is the sincerest form of flattery.
What goes around, comes around.
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=584638&pg=1#624860 (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=584638&pg=1#624860)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 23, 2012, 07:09:48 PM
What goes around, comes around.
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=584638&pg=1#624860 (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=584638&pg=1#624860)
I like:)
Interesting advertising concept I guess.
I thought I smelled skullduggery.
Gee, I wonder who Grogheadsdotcom could be... :D
Quote from: Bison on September 23, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
Interesting advertising concept I guess.
I'm not sure it's advertising as much as desperation. Apparently their own audience is insufficient so they're trying to get more here.
<shrug>
We'll think over whether we want to permit this in principle - it's certainly not good taste and of questionable ethics.
While they have more to lose by us posting over there and pulling their dwindling audience here, I don't think it behooves any of us to stoop so low and I wouldn't encourage folks to go over there and counter-post.
^oooppps. Too late.
They could post some more news stories about software for playing Hearts. That will grow their member base.
....someone seems to be so incompetent that even his SPAM doesent work ::)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi47.tinypic.com%2F2mqs07m.jpg&hash=e4615e9c9d10464bbbfb3730b3f76484e76649b0)
LOL ;D
(of course the article can be read on the frontpage of that side... so its there
http://www.wargamer.com/article/3249/pc-game-review-panzer-corps-grand-campaign-'45-east)
in addition, i doubt this kind of blatant cry for a little trafic is sanctioned by Slitherine management ...i will talk about this and all the other recent fails at the Wargamer with JD in person, when i see him at the Spiel2012 trade fair in October.
Quote from: LongBlade on September 23, 2012, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Bison on September 23, 2012, 07:11:27 PM
Interesting advertising concept I guess.
I'm not sure it's advertising as much as desperation. Apparently their own audience is insufficient so they're trying to get more here.
<shrug>
We'll think over whether we want to permit this in principle - it's certainly not good taste and of questionable ethics.
While they have more to lose by us posting over there and pulling their dwindling audience here, I don't think it behooves any of us to stoop so low and I wouldn't encourage folks to go over there and counter-post.
Personally I don't think any site should allow a user account to post with the only purpose being to advertise another sites content, equates to spam and really bad taste. It might be different if the user account participated in other general discussions but this account clearly is used for advertising.
My vote would be to not allow it for this account and any other account like this that would come along.
Why would it bother you? Spammer? Is there a ban on promoting another site's relevant articles?
Quote from: jomni on September 24, 2012, 07:57:38 AM
Why would it bother you? Spammer? There's an account on the other side posting announcing links to articles here.
I think one guy went over there and made one post just for giggles.
I'm not encouraging people to cross-post over there, as noted above. But if someone goes over there and posts there's not much I can do about it.
[Sorry I change my post as I was saying something that someone else already pointed out.] But yeah I guess that guy posted in retaliation to this.
Quote from: jomni on September 24, 2012, 08:04:25 AM
[Sorry I change my post as I was saying something that someone else already pointed out.] But yeah I guess that guy posted in retaliation to this.
I appreciate the head's up. I spend zero time thinking about what happens on other websites so I'm truly in the dark about what goes on there or elsewhere.
And frankly, I don't care what happens there. What I don't want is some kind of flame war popping up between sites. I've got plenty of work to do today without being distracted.
I'll be watching that thread on the other side. So far no one has taken the bait if it was indeed a bait.
Quote from: jomni on September 24, 2012, 09:10:05 AM
I'll be watching that thread on the other side. So far no one has taken the bait if it was indeed a bait.
Thank you :)
Quote from: jomni on September 24, 2012, 07:57:38 AM
Why would it bother you? Spammer? Is there a ban on promoting another site's relevant articles?
Netiquette tends to lean toward not cross-posting links in a competitor's forum without first asking permission from the site admins/mods. It just leads to bad blood and possibility for a flame war.
wow - where did this spring from? Is there bad feeling between the two or something? I certainly didn't think that was the case when I was invited here - I just thought it was an additional place to talk wargaming.
I frequent both places and Matrix - though don't post as much as I used to here, there or Matrix for that matter - but if one site posts something on here (or Wargamer or Matrix) and I pick it up there - and it's relevant, then I'm pleased.
This just makes me feel kind of uneasy and will make me think twice about posting something that I found on one of the other sites.
Can't we all just share?
I don't think there is any issue sharing and discussing wargames, boardgames games or whatnot across forums. The actual community that plays a number of the wargames is quite small. I think most here visit sites like wargamer, matrix, battlefront, slitherine, rock paper shotgun, gamesquad, etc...
The question is for me simply as a member is: is there an exchange of ideas and chatter or is it limited to a single impersonal line and a link?
I know that there are a number of guys here who post links to other sites or blogs. It's cool to get all the different perspectives. However, they also stick around to chat it up a little every now and again.
Just my 2 coppers.
I wouldn't see any problem with sharing links and the like, JD. As Bison said, I think we all frequent many forums all over the Internets.
The issue I personally have with stuff like this is that stuff like this is being put up, time and again, by an account that exists for no other reason than to shill for another site. It isn't a community member pointing out something they've seen elsewhere, it's pretty much spamming the forum with no other purpose for existing here and no other contributions being made at all. It really isn't very far removed from an actual spam account.
The fact that, as far as I'm aware, they are doing so without even asking the people running this place if they have any issues with them acting as a full bore ad-bot is what really comes off as pretty damn lame.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on September 24, 2012, 05:29:39 PM
The issue I personally have with stuff like this is that stuff like this is being put up, time and again, by an account that exists for no other reason than to shill for another site. It isn't a community member pointing out something they've seen elsewhere, it's pretty much spamming the forum with no other purpose for existing here and no other contributions being made at all. It really isn't very far removed from an actual spam account.
I think you and Bison hit it on the head. Nothing wrong with sharing information, but more how this comes across by just posting a link with the sole intent to draw attention. As you pointed out, this account has been used for nothing but this purpose, no contributions made by it and seems like only created for this purpose.
I have no issue with sharing information amongst active members at all.....
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 24, 2012, 04:56:00 PM
wow - where did this spring from? Is there bad feeling between the two or something? I certainly didn't think that was the case when I was invited here - I just thought it was an additional place to talk wargaming.
I frequent both places and Matrix - though don't post as much as I used to here, there or Matrix for that matter - but if one site posts something on here (or Wargamer or Matrix) and I pick it up there - and it's relevant, then I'm pleased.
This just makes me feel kind of uneasy and will make me think twice about posting something that I found on one of the other sites.
Can't we all just share?
i have to say i don't get this either -- it does seem like there's some vague turf war or bad blood between Wargamer and Grogheads -- i guess it's something between insiders... although as someone who has frequented Wargamer for a while, and who is happy to check out what's up on Grogheads as well, i just have no idea what the backstory is here. :-\
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 24, 2012, 06:51:14 PM
i just have no idea what the backstory is here. :-\
Think, "Real Housewives of New Jersey," and you'll get the gist of it. ;)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 24, 2012, 07:48:44 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 24, 2012, 06:51:14 PM
i just have no idea what the backstory is here. :-\
Think, "Real Housewives of New Jersey," and you'll get the gist of it. ;)
Except with less sex.
Someone posted over there about Matrix owning Wargamer.
As far as I remember, they guy that started WG had some problems. David Heath helped him out by letting him use the Matrix servers and feed him some money with the Ads. Matrix never owned the site.
Recently, like the last couple of years, the site changed hands a time or two and the site was no longer using Matrix servers. However my experience is that if Matrix is down, so is WG.
As a mod on the other side, all I can say is that people are free to nitpick Matrix Titles in the forums and we are taking in more non-matrix articles.
Quote from: junk2drive on September 24, 2012, 08:30:18 PM
Someone posted over there about Matrix owning Wargamer.
As far as I remember, they guy that started WG had some problems. David Heath helped him out by letting him use the Matrix servers and feed him some money with the Ads. Matrix never owned the site.
Recently, like the last couple of years, the site changed hands a time or two and the site was no longer using Matrix servers. However my experience is that if Matrix is down, so is WG.
Matrix owned wargamer. Now the company that owns matrix, also owns wargamer. This is no secret, nor has it ever been, and I do not see a problem with it, so long as the wargamer remains independent in terms of management.
Quote from: junk2drive on September 24, 2012, 08:30:18 PM
Someone posted over there about Matrix owning Wargamer.
As far as I remember, they guy that started WG had some problems. David Heath helped him out by letting him use the Matrix servers and feed him some money with the Ads. Matrix never owned the site.
Recently, like the last couple of years, the site changed hands a time or two and the site was no longer using Matrix servers. However my experience is that if Matrix is down, so is WG.
It was literally true that "Matrix" never owned Wargamer. David Heath, and a couple of investors, owned Wargamer. David also owned a majority share of Matrix. I worked for a long time at Wargamer with the clear understanding that I had 100% control over the editorial content and never had a problem.
Slitherine now owns Matrix and with that deal came Wargamer. Shortly after the acquisition I quit working at Wargamer over professional and ethical differences with Slitherine management.
Thanks for clearing that up. Sorta.
Quote from: junk2drive on September 24, 2012, 10:26:29 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. Sorta.
LMK if something isn't clear. I'll do my best to help.
So does Slith/Matrix own a majority interest in WG? Or all or nothing?
Side note, does David own any of it anymore?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 24, 2012, 04:56:00 PM
Can't we all just share?
of course ! :)
Judge, you (and i) are just wargamers talking about our wide field of hobbies ...you don't want to sell B-17-paint or bikes (i don't sell action-cams or old Landcruisers) its all about fun and games and the hobbies and to get to know each other a little bit in the community.
Let's say: the face behind the strategy ...if you happen to game with someone online or PBEM or even run into at a games trade fair in RL.
You brought me into TAL and boardgaming again for example and that's just great! I owe you :)
...if the editor in chief of The Wargamer would join here as just another wargaming fellow (with a nick) and point out an interesting topic in another forum (even the one
he steamed with flank speed into an iceberg ...and most passengers had to evacuate to GrogHeads) that would be great!
but just another bad PR-idea on the job ...to get some traffic to the front page is a no-go
like spamming his own forum with links to the front page-articles and news every given day, cloaking the good last-24h-activity-screen function with stuff you just happened to read.
even mild critical annotations over-there are not wanted, the forum-software still doesn't work as advertised, trolls and their sock-puppets roam free, long time moderators resign because they didn't get fire-support when they do the job they volunteered for... and the guy runnig the show has developed IMHO community-managing-skills like
a blend of the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld and an Interrogation robot from the Death Star's arsenal...
The over-all experience, the vibes are gone... and that's a pity! and still makes me upset sometimes when i have to witness the next Fail.
-end of rant- :-X
You owe me nothing MikeGer - TaL was bought with your hard earned(?) :P cash not mine (I hope you are still enjoying it by the way - as the rules bed in, I'm getting more and more into it)
I can see from a webmasters pov. I just don't think it's anything us minions have to be involved in...just let the mods/web site owners sort it. If they want to ban the account or stop future posts like it, then more power to them - it's their show.
But us lot getting involved just causes bad feeling - and as I frequent all 3 sites, I'd rather we all lived and loved :)
Anyway - I've got to go fight some crime (get to work!) :P
Quote from: junk2drive on September 24, 2012, 10:44:06 PM
So does Slith/Matrix own a majority interest in WG? Or all or nothing?
Side note, does David own any of it anymore?
I was not privy to the exact details of the deal, but in general it is correct to view them as Slitherine having purchased Matrix.
When I was there, JD was my boss and David had zero control/influence over Wargamer. When the merger took place both companies took great pains to emphasize that nothing would change immediately, and of course it didn't. It couldn't - these things take time for new ownership to learn the ins and outs. Make no mistake: Slitherine calls the shots. Any changes over the last two years - for better and worse - have been directed by them.
I may have been your boss Longblade - but I did try to give you free reign! :P
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 25, 2012, 07:07:31 AM
I may have been your boss Longblade - but I did try to give you free reign! :P
Thanks!
I'm most impressed with your new line of minis: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/judge-dredd-miniatures-game-block-war
And the movie you have in the works: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1343727/
Quote from: LongBlade on September 24, 2012, 10:19:29 PM
Slitherine now owns Matrix and with that deal came Wargamer. Shortly after the acquisition I quit working at Wargamer over professional and ethical differences with Slitherine management.
Thanks for clearing this up. The fact that you and many of the original Wargamer faithful have migrated away from the site really gives me pause about the new management. Obviously I don't know the details... but it sure doesn't seem to speak well of the new regime that it could alienate what were the site's most dedicated contributors like this.....
I've actually not given my seal of approval for the movie yet :)
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 25, 2012, 07:50:00 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on September 24, 2012, 10:19:29 PM
Slitherine now owns Matrix and with that deal came Wargamer. Shortly after the acquisition I quit working at Wargamer over professional and ethical differences with Slitherine management.
Thanks for clearing this up. The fact that you and many of the original Wargamer faithful have migrated away from the site really gives me pause about the new management. Obviously I don't know the details... but it sure doesn't seem to speak well of the new regime that it could alienate what were the site's most dedicated contributors like this.....
I have no idea how they run things these days. They may have learned from their mistakes.
My focus is on building a gaming community here. We're trying to create a safe, fun environment where folks can enjoy each others' company, chat about games, BS about other stuff, and read reviews and stuff on the front page. I spend zero time worrying about what other sites are doing these days. But the question came up, and I've answered it.
I just had an LOL moment when I realised that we are on page 3 of comments without any of them being about the review in the OP.
^That's how we roll ;D
Those are modified sweat glands for producing and storing baby food. Attractive to both men and women as a survival instinct.
I thought they were nature's stress balls.
I write occasional reviews for three different websites (wargamer, armchairgeneral & grogheads). I will alert people to a review I wrote on one site to the other two (excepting sometimes armchairgeneral which has very little gaming activity on the boards).
Jim Cobb will occasionally do the same thing.
All of us can get really busy and miss stuff.
Quote from: airboy on September 25, 2012, 10:38:09 AM
I write occasional reviews for three different websites (wargamer, armchairgeneral & grogheads). I will alert people to a review I wrote on one site to the other two (excepting sometimes armchairgeneral which has very little gaming activity on the boards).
Jim Cobb will occasionally do the same thing.
All of us can get really busy and miss stuff.
It's one thing for an author to cross post. I don't love it, but I've never asked anyone to not do it.
It's another for a publisher to go to his competitors and cross post.
^Exactly. And that is a HUGE difference!
It's ironic that they just promoted a couple of new Moderators. Why?
Ummm.....because they chased off all the old ones?
I mean what do they need new ones for?
I find that I'm now a lot less sympathetic with Slitherine over that BS EA Games pulled over Battlefield Academy. They're teaming up with a guy like Norb Tempko, even indirectly, and when you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas.
I was being a smartass, Uber. Sorry :)
We were both being smartasses, I think. Nevertheless, we both said valid things.
I read the review - and somehow the player was defending Berlin and managed to "win the war" according to the screen shot of the final briefing.
HUH????????????????????
I have not played the '45 download although I have played all of the rest of them. This does not seem to make any sense.
Quote from: airboy on September 25, 2012, 02:45:57 PM
I read the review - and somehow the player was defending Berlin and managed to "win the war" according to the screen shot of the final briefing.
HUH????????????????????
I have not played the '45 download although I have played all of the rest of them. This does not seem to make any sense.
It's obvious. By successfully holding off the Soviets from entering Berlin the Germans convinced them to return to Moscow. The Western Allies, seeing the Soviets give up, returned to Paris for some well-deserved R&R with the French ladies. The good news is that this version of history saves us all the pain in the ass that was the Cold War and it still preserves complete historical accuracy by fast-forwarding to the 1990 status quo. I suspect a few of us should amend our class lectures, but it's nice to know that all's well that ends well.
^ Actually - that's not exactly the issue. There is a special unit the Germans can employ - the JudgeDredd - and he persuades the Russkies that the Motherland is more welcoming than the Fatherland...and they leave.
It costs alot - but it's very effective. :)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 25, 2012, 03:08:14 PM
^ Actually - that's not exactly the issue. There is a special unit the Germans can employ - the JudgeDredd - and he persuades the Russkies that the Motherland is more welcoming than the Fatherland...and they leave.
It costs alot - but it's very effective. :)
Well, you ARE the law.
Boobs.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs2.ebaystatic.com%2Fm%2FmriuZvisqi81O2EhzBX-kiw%2F140.jpg&hash=68082b9b6eb18fa685c4654eb9d1293e8b667b8b)
(...from '45 / Heimatfront)
No MikeGer - he said "boobs"! ;)
its hard to cup-up if you rely on Lebensmittelkarten ;)
(since 1942 it was 6,4 kg bread, 1200 g meat auf 825 g fat / a month)
Quote from: Ubercat on September 25, 2012, 11:54:57 AM
It's ironic that they just promoted a couple of new Moderators. Why?
I am one of them. Are moderators still needed? I don't know, there's a lot less traffic than there used to have that's for sure. I have been the only moderator for the Haemimont forum for almost 10 years until the forum was taken down so it's nothing new to me. The other new mods are also familiar faces here so i wouldn't worry.