Middle East campaign series releases sep. 24

[Cyrano]

While CS is the one series that sort of -- I stress sort of -- made the Battleground era 3D view work for me, I do not understand the dev's desire to to stay after that view in this iteration.  They've done so much to make the 2D better -- principally making bigger, clearer NATO counters -- that messing with the 3D seems to me to be chasing an audience they'll never get.  On Target has shown the way on this -- Bauhaus not withstanding -- and I would that others followed their lead.

Still, as I won't be PLAYING at that level, I suppose it doesn't matter overmuch.  Still excited...

[Nefaro]

The ATGMs in the original Divided Ground were buggy as hell.  Specifically ones fired from helos.  Even though you'd have a clear LOS, the missile would exploded against terrain nowhere near your target when fired.  Even the helos would run into hillsides and explode sometimes IIRC.

I'm sure that quick video was to show they've succeeded in creating a version that actually works.  The sound effects are bad in the vid.  Sounds like they came via desktop speakers much more distant than the mic, rather than recorded from the game itself.

Not a great feast for the eyes and ears, but if it works I'll have it sometime.  Been wanting to dodge Saggers & shoot T-55/62s with my Centurions & M-60s for awhile.  ^-^  Was so sad after buying the original to find that it was unplayable.

[Wolfe1759]

Agree with Judge and Jar.

Until it was highlighted I didn't even see there was a helicopter in that hex.

Also having watched the clip, once a helicopter has popped up you can't put it back to Nap of the Earth without moving it a hex first - that is either a bug or a rather clunky oversight.

[berto]

While CS is the one series that sort of -- I stress sort of -- made the Battleground era 3D view work for me, I do not understand the dev's desire to to stay after that view in this iteration.  They've done so much to make the 2D better -- principally making bigger, clearer NATO counters -- that messing with the 3D seems to me to be chasing an audience they'll never get.

Quoting from an older thread here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=14151.msg367818#msg367818):

Making use of the limited time and resources we have, in Middle East we have substantially revamped the 2D map modes, adding two new larger, zoomed-in 2D modes (50% and 100% larger than the earlier largest zoom), along with a host of other 2D improvements. To some of us (old board war game grognards), the game has shifted focus, with 2D the new primary playing modes, and 3D in secondary status. (Much like, say, TOAW, where 2D is the primary interface, and 3D is an afterthought.)

That said, we do have longer-range plans to buff the Campaign Series' 3D. Rome Wasn't Built in a Day.

We retain the older 3D, because it still works for some, and because we do indeed have plans to buff it in future.  In fact, a complete 3D graphics overhaul might be in the offing.  Much depends on having a person with just the right talents and expertise join the team, also their long-term commitment and dedication and work ethic.

(Do people fault TOAW so much because its 3D graphics are lackluster?)

Still, as I won't be PLAYING at that level, I suppose it doesn't matter overmuch.  Still excited...

As are we!  Thanks for your interest and support, Cyrano!

[berto]

Also having watched the clip, once a helicopter has popped up you can't put it back to Nap of the Earth without moving it a hex first - that is either a bug or a rather clunky oversight.

The "no two consecutive ascents/descents in the same hex" rule is meant to enforce more natural flight paths.  So that helos aren't vertically ascending/descending all the time.

In the video, the helo had moved to that one hex, then ascended from NOE to Low air level in order to sight the target and make the shot.  Having ascended in that hex, it would then move back a hex, descend back down to NOE air level, in order to hide from view once again.

So the usual sequence would be:  move forward one hex, ascend; fire; move backward one hex, descend.  Rinse and repeat.

We have a Vietnam War combat veteran on the team (Australian) who is fine with the Air Model and how it portrays helos, and their flight pathing.

CS is not a flight sim.

Not a bug, WAD.  Clunky?  Your Mileage May Vary.

[Tamas]

Berto and the others spent a lot of effort on the 2D mode to make it at least equal in functionality to the 3D one.

But as somebody who was madly in love with the original East Front and East Front 2 back in the day, I still prefer 3D, and have found it to hold up very well.

[Zulu1966]

Yeah. Not sure I get the comments on the 3d. The cs series was one of the only hex based wargames where it actually worked and even after all this time the models are still on a par with or far better than anything else in a hex based wargame.  Day one buy especially if it helps the Vietnam game along.

[Jason Petho]

Not many games with this subject matter so would like to purchase some time, but will depend on the pricing they come up with.  I believe the older campaign series game is $30 so assuming it will be in that range, but one never knows with this company.

Good day.

I believe the retail price will be $39.99 USD for the download, $49.99 USD for the boxed version.

We thought that was both reasonable and competitive.

Jason Petho

[Jason Petho]

The ATGMs in the original Divided Ground were buggy as hell.  Specifically ones fired from helos.  Even though you'd have a clear LOS, the missile would exploded against terrain nowhere near your target when fired.  Even the helos would run into hillsides and explode sometimes IIRC.

I'm sure that quick video was to show they've succeeded in creating a version that actually works.  The sound effects are bad in the vid.  Sounds like they came via desktop speakers much more distant than the mic, rather than recorded from the game itself.

Not a great feast for the eyes and ears, but if it works I'll have it sometime.  Been wanting to dodge Saggers & shoot T-55/62s with my Centurions & M-60s for awhile.  ^-^  Was so sad after buying the original to find that it was unplayable.

Guilty about the video.

I just purchased the Camtasia video software that day and that was my first attempt and putting together a quick video. My speakers were up too loud and I reduced the overall volume in the editing session without realizing it.

Lessons learned.  There will be more videos in the near, hopefully they will be clearer... especially as I figure out how to use the software properly.

Jason Petho

[Jason Petho]

As Berto has eluded to, there are plans for revamping the 3D in the future. That will come in time, but definitely on the radar.

The more successful Middle East is, the more likely the massive graphics upgrades will be coming in the future (which will be ported back to Middle East).

Jason Petho

[-budd-]

paypal locked and loaded.

[Warhorse]

Hello all, I'm Mike, the graphics guy, specifically the 3d graphics guy! I have loved the CS since it's inception, and indeed started to mod the unit graphics with the original East Front. It always bothered me how a lot of them were shapeless lumps, and endeavored to improve on them when I could. I joined the Dev team a few years ago to tackle all the graphics at the time, settled into revamping the 2d views, which in itself was a very daunting project! After that, I began to tackle the very neglected, even more so than EF, WF, and RS titles, 3d graphics, oh boy!! The original Divided Ground team had two graphics artists, and as with the previous titles used a turntable with miniatures on them at the different facings, and photographed them, usually only in primer, later would be added color, if any. I work totally on the pixel level, and redo these graphics, a lot of them never even existed before, such as the Israeli Gillois Amphibian, and many, many others. This is an ongoing project, as I am the only 3d graphics guy on staff, although Jason has helped out immensely with the infantry. There are literally thousands of graphics, each made up of 6 facings to give you the view you see on the screen when you play. For sure, come tomorrow, when you open up an Israel-Egyptian scenario, you WILL see a difference, I assure you! More later, just wanted to pop in and say hey!

[Nefaro]

But as somebody who was madly in love with the original East Front and East Front 2 back in the day, I still prefer 3D, and have found it to hold up very well.

Same.  I thought the pseudo-3D mode worked best for this series.

[panzerde]

Game play in this series is simply great if you are into the periods covered and scale. East Front, West Front, and Rising Sun are classics of the genre and thanks to the efforts of the team that just posted above me here have remained very playable and enjoyable to the present day. This game will be an instant buy for me. I've been impatiently waiting for it to be released for over a year now. I suspect Jim and I will have it fired up for PBEM about ten minutes after it's released.


Nope, not everyone is going to enjoy it. It's a very groggy game, as is the series.

[Warhorse]

But as somebody who was madly in love with the original East Front and East Front 2 back in the day, I still prefer 3D, and have found it to hold up very well.

Same.  I thought the pseudo-3D mode worked best for this series.

I wholeheartedly concur!! Although I have moved over to the 2d side as well periodically, what with the new size I can actually see them! Added a crap-load of new NATO-Military symbols as well, and most units have a dedicated 2d AND 3d icon!!