Author Topic: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?  (Read 5827 times)

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Offline gameleaper

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2016, 09:39:50 AM »
thx Nef, its on offer for about an hour left of the sale, I'm a bit drained of cash, but I will have to look at it a bit now quick smart

Offline ExWargamerJoe

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2016, 09:10:06 AM »
This is easily one of my go-to games at the moment. EUIV is in such a good place post Rights of Man expansion. I don't consider it strictly speaking a 'wargame', so we don't cover it a lot on the site, but I'm finding ways to expand the scope that make sense so it does slip in every now and then.

[SHAMELESS PLUG] For example, my recent article looking at how Patch 1.19 changes the 'meta' of warfare in EUIV: http://www.wargamer.com/news/meta-warfare-europa-universalis-iv-and-patch-1-19/
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Offline gameleaper

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2016, 09:39:19 AM »
EU4 stuff is not a plug , its essentials :)

Offline Philippe

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2016, 11:34:28 AM »
I'm afraid I lost a lot of enthusiasm for EU IV when it became impossible to reduplicate Columbus' first crossing of the Atlantic in anything resembling the historical voyage.

I don't have anything against alternate history, but not when it includes an aparent allergy for the real thing.
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2016, 11:42:31 AM »
Yeah... that kind of bummed me out as well... they were able to have it happen in all the past versions....

Offline Raied

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2016, 01:34:19 PM »
I lost interest in all paradox games recently, their direction is to emphasize on freedom of choices and forcing alternative history, most new paradox gamers like this direction, and that is good, but for me history and plausible outcomes what made me originally love those games. If I want alt history and all crazy things could happen I will be playing Civ games.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2016, 06:27:57 PM »
The EU games have always been beyond my understanding. I never felt like I was actually playing anything, but just x-ing out a series of message boxes until I got to the last one that read: 'you lose.'
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Offline gameleaper

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2016, 11:17:07 PM »
I'm sure I have seen the Columbus 3 ships Pinta etc in a DLC on youtube, and in the vanilla I think its one ship, but It looked possible to do with colonests and conquistadores. you need these to venture into the unknown map locations.

It was complex and unplayable for me, but after studying the game I would feel awful now if I didn't have it, and simpler games just don't do it for me now, it dosnt seem that difficult after learning it.

Offline ExWargamerJoe

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2016, 08:29:18 AM »
I think this struggle between "History" and "Sandbox" has always been something Paradox have been grappling with. Hearts of Iron IV feels this problem way more acutely.

The thing is, History happened because of the choices that were made. It's extremely hard to offer that without railroading the player (which is basically what Hearts of Iron III did). It's essentially down to pure luck that history happened the way it did, and it could have easily not happened that way. I think perhaps the 'True' history of the world has gotten lost somewhat in current EUIV, but the sand-box direction they've gone in makes the game better.

Even in vanilla EUIV though, apart from key events it was nigh on impossible to keep things on the true path because of AI and player agency.

Honestly, if you wanted actual history, you wouldn't be playing a game at all, you'd be watching a documentary.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:32:04 AM by WargamerJoe »
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2016, 09:03:22 AM »
Yeah.. the old "if you want history go read a book" thing.... I read lots of books on history... sometimes I want to play in it too.  :)
I'm OK with sandbox type games but things should be at least doable as they happened in history.

Right now, or at least the last time I played EUIV, you couldn't possibly make Columbus' Atlantic journey because all yer ships will sink... period. It's the way they have setup the attrition rate, or whatever they call it, for early ships. Now, the only feasible way to get to the new world is the short hope from Africa to South America.... even with the best admiral/explorer and teched up ships.

It just makes you think that if they can't get that "simple" thing to be doable in their model of the world then how much more of the model is flawed....

Offline ExWargamerJoe

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2016, 09:33:40 AM »
Yeah.. the old "if you want history go read a book" thing.... I read lots of books on history... sometimes I want to play in it too.  :)
I'm OK with sandbox type games but things should be at least doable as they happened in history.

Right now, or at least the last time I played EUIV, you couldn't possibly make Columbus' Atlantic journey because all yer ships will sink... period. It's the way they have setup the attrition rate, or whatever they call it, for early ships. Now, the only feasible way to get to the new world is the short hope from Africa to South America.... even with the best admiral/explorer and teched up ships.

It just makes you think that if they can't get that "simple" thing to be doable in their model of the world then how much more of the model is flawed....

When was the last time you played it? The generic exploration rules yeah can be quite harsh, and it can be quite tough to get places... but I think there are Columbus specific event chains now. He's definitely a recruitable person that you get, but haven't played Portugal in a while so haven't tested it.
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2016, 09:39:26 AM »
It was a few DLC's ago that I played so maybe it's been fixed. I did recruit Columbus, as Spain, managed to get Portugal to lend me their port in Azores and sent him to find NA by sailing "straight" across...and lost him at sea... repeatedly... over many game re-starts...  :pullhair:

But maybe that's been fixed since. I'm way behind on DLC's so maybe if there's a big Christmas sale I'll catch up and try again... definition of insanity  :idiot2:....

Offline Nefaro

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2016, 11:58:51 AM »
Yeah.. the old "if you want history go read a book" thing.... I read lots of books on history... sometimes I want to play in it too.  :)


Then other much more military oriented games are what you're looking for.  The AGEOD series is a good example of a large scale strategy game that generally follows the history. 

The key being that the a-historical "sandbox" is removed when you don't have much Diplomacy or Economic control.  In other words 4X games and other similar grand strategy titles shouldn't be on your list if you want history to be followed pretty well.

Offline OJsDad

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2016, 12:06:33 PM »
BH, I understand what your saying, and need to fire up EUIV again and try as Spain and see how it goes.  From your example above, it does sound like an issue with the way exploration and ship voyage work can make it impossible. 

But I also agree with WGJoe.  The further you get from a starting point, the more difficult its going to be to replicate.  I was playing as Spain once in EUIII and late in the game got a historical bankruptcy event.  It didn't matter how well you were doing, it always fired, because it was historical.  Kind of ruined the game at that point. 
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: Europa Universalis, please sir can I have some MOOR :) ?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2016, 12:16:40 PM »
Right guys, I understand about games wandering off from history... but to not even be able to recreate Columbus' voyage seems odd and bad design.. to me. His ability to make the voyage, in a purely mechanical sense, should have nothing to do with whether I've conquered the entire Iberian Peninsula, or all of France, by 1453, for example. With the same ship types and tech that Columbus used in real life I should be able to recreate his journey.

When I play EUIV I'm not looking to replicate history but I'd like to be able to recreate some of it within the boundaries of reality....