Game DRM

[Darkspire]

My feelings on this have evolved a lot over the last few years. 

I think I just have tiers of games now.

First there are the non-DRM, GoG type games...I'm talking about those games with pretty much unlimited installs, maybe serial-number based.

Then there are my Steam games.  Extremely easy to continue to install over and over, until Steam goes TU someday.  But for now, extremely convenient and perhaps even my preferred means of purchasing games.  Can't beat having everything in a library, patched, and ready to go at a moment's notice, workshop, and all that.

Finally, there are my headache-DRM games.  These are games/add-ons I've bought, but I have no expectation of having them forever.  In a sense, I consider them "throw-away" games.  I'm talking things like Battlefront games (CM, etc.), add-on planes for FSX, DCS sort of...games that have install limits or weird activations...limited downloads, whatever.  I pick and choose which of these games to buy, but I don't expect them to live forever.  I enjoy them while I can, but someday I know they will die and I will be sad but I'll just move on.

I hate that it is like this, but it just is.  I try to enjoy the games I have, and I have the core that I know will always be with me, but more often I have games that become hardware-limited before they become DRM-limited.  So I've stopped being so worried about DRM as I might have used to be.

So on that note you must not care to much about money, I have been with computers since the late 70's and am a firm believer in having something I paid for, with the way you describe things you don't seem to mind paying for things and are even expecting for your paid for goods to become vapourware, that sort of attitude to this problem only reinforces the suits positions and bank balances, I am all for a digital download but it stops there, If I can not choose when and how often I want to install a piece of software then I would tend to feel that I have been robbed, all this paying for the license and not the software nonsense is a complete rip off, would you would be happy to buy a washing machine and know that you can only use it for 100 washes then you would need to buy another one?

Darkspire

[undercovergeek]

DRM arguement alert!!!

your arguement falls down on the basic premise that you actually accidentally throw your washing machine away (hard drive crash, loss of data, new pc) and then ring up the manufacturer for a new one (re licence) for someone keen to look after their money you sure are shoddy with your washing machines

[Tuna]

The ability depends on the game.  The new CMBN/CMFI cannot be deactivated.  You get like 3/yr with 1/yr added on to your activations or some such nonsense.  However an email to support will result with a quick reply and a activation reset, which has been my experience.]

The older games do allow for a deactivation.

Maybe it's that documentation I read...so never bothered with any of them. What bullshit.

When I was trying to move install my CMSF that I bought on GG, I was in the same situation.. I searched far and wide.. there was no place that I could do an de-activation.. they 'said' there was one in the program group.. there was not.. I think BF was just upset to support their game sold on GG, which they felt was under priced...

Bottom line for me, was that GG rocked.. Customer Service responded right away and gave me a new key (3 more activations).. I don't know if they could still do that now, where their relationship has been severed for so long.. But at the time I really appreciated their stance on the situation.

You are right Judge.. You bought a game, legitimately.. you are not pirating software, they should NEVER say to, that you have to buy the game again. DRM is to prevent piracy.. It is not to make people by more copies of a game, that they already paid for... Or supposedly that is why we have all suffered through DRM with some companies.

[MengJiao]

It's posts like yours that really make me realize that my decision to not have anything to do with steam or any form of DRM was a very wise move,.....

   But the OP said that Steam worked fine.  I got a new machine about six months ago and I did the Steam transfer with no problems and didn't bother with anything else.

I used to hate Steam (about 6-7 years ago), but these days it works much better than other DRM systems (in my experience).

[Toonces]

My feelings on this have evolved a lot over the last few years. 

I think I just have tiers of games now.

First there are the non-DRM, GoG type games...I'm talking about those games with pretty much unlimited installs, maybe serial-number based.

Then there are my Steam games.  Extremely easy to continue to install over and over, until Steam goes TU someday.  But for now, extremely convenient and perhaps even my preferred means of purchasing games.  Can't beat having everything in a library, patched, and ready to go at a moment's notice, workshop, and all that.

Finally, there are my headache-DRM games.  These are games/add-ons I've bought, but I have no expectation of having them forever.  In a sense, I consider them "throw-away" games.  I'm talking things like Battlefront games (CM, etc.), add-on planes for FSX, DCS sort of...games that have install limits or weird activations...limited downloads, whatever.  I pick and choose which of these games to buy, but I don't expect them to live forever.  I enjoy them while I can, but someday I know they will die and I will be sad but I'll just move on.

I hate that it is like this, but it just is.  I try to enjoy the games I have, and I have the core that I know will always be with me, but more often I have games that become hardware-limited before they become DRM-limited.  So I've stopped being so worried about DRM as I might have used to be.

So on that note you must not care to much about money, I have been with computers since the late 70's and am a firm believer in having something I paid for, with the way you describe things you don't seem to mind paying for things and are even expecting for your paid for goods to become vapourware, that sort of attitude to this problem only reinforces the suits positions and bank balances, I am all for a digital download but it stops there, If I can not choose when and how often I want to install a piece of software then I would tend to feel that I have been robbed, all this paying for the license and not the software nonsense is a complete rip off, would you would be happy to buy a washing machine and know that you can only use it for 100 washes then you would need to buy another one?

Darkspire

Sure I care about money, but like I said my thoughts have evolved.

There are any number of things I have bought that don't last forever.  I paid 18k for my car and I expect I'll have to replace it in about 2 more years...it's not going to last forever.  Either are my video games.

I used to be a DRM-free guy, and in general I agree with that stance.  However, over the years, and I've been gaming since they invented computer games, I realize that I have more games that simply don't work with modern hardware than I do games that have DRM that prevents me from playing them.  This may not be the case in 10 years, but right now it is so. 

[Darkspire]

I used to hate Steam (about 6-7 years ago), but these days it works much better than other DRM systems (in my experience).

Steam and DRM go hand in hand, hence I wrote 'Steam and any other form of DRM' If Steam goes the way of the dinosaur you lose all your games, at least with a CD / DVD and no DRM or online activation I can install and not worry about that sort of thing, the throwaway culture of today is what feeds the monster and only makes matters worse. I rebuild / build a new PC sometimes 3 times in a year and although I only have a few games that have been on every machine I do not have to worry about all the juggling that folks have to do to get there games back. I really like the idea of Steam, having all your games in one place and being able to install without looking for patches etc but the thought if losing my collection and all the money invested if they go t**s up is a worrying thought not to mention all the background running code that goes on with the Steam DRM.

Darkspire

[Tuna]

I think Steam is kind of too big to go belly up.. They're like the Amazon of PC gaming...

[MengJiao]

I used to hate Steam (about 6-7 years ago), but these days it works much better than other DRM systems (in my experience).

Steam and DRM go hand in hand, hence I wrote 'Steam and any other form of DRM' If Steam goes the way of the dinosaur you lose all your games, at least with a CD / DVD and no DRM or online activation I can install and not worry about that sort of thing, the throwaway culture of today is what feeds the monster and only makes matters worse. I rebuild / build a new PC sometimes 3 times in a year and although I only have a few games that have been on every machine I do not have to worry about all the juggling that folks have to do to get there games back. I really like the idea of Steam, having all your games in one place and being able to install without looking for patches etc but the thought if losing my collection and all the money invested if they go t**s up is a worrying thought not to mention all the background running code that goes on with the Steam DRM.

Darkspire

  While being wary of Steam going belly-up makes logical sense, in practice (as Toones pointed out), most games have a pretty short technical life-time and for me an even shorter period where I'm interested in playing them.  For example, if Steam blew up right now, I'd only lose two games that I'm actively playing -- RomeII and ArmaIII.  The other dozen or so are no longer of much interest.

Plus -- these days really good games are becoming more and more like subscriptions; you subscribe and get updates of one kind (patches) or another (DLC) or even another (stand-alone expansions).    Steam works well with this subscription model.

[Darkspire]

Very good points but somewhere things changed, I suppose it must have been about ten years ago thinking about it. Companies used to release new content / large game altering patches for free, like Bioware did for Baldurs Gate and KOTOR for example, this worked as folks knew they were really getting there moneys worth and would stick with a company, now its all called DLC and you have to pay for it, I remember when I first noticed it with Morrowind Oblivion on the consoles and then it started creeping onto the PC like a cancer and has only got worse over the years.

Darkspire

[JudgeDredd]

Well after the initial fast response, I'm still waiting to be able to play my CMSF games :-(

[Tuna]

Long Shot but try sending a mail to Gamers Gate.. might be too old and they no longer have access to keys.. but always worth a shot.. Gamers Gate has excellent Customer Service record!

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks but the ones I want replacement keys for I bought from Battlefront.

Combat Mission:Shock Force loads - GG is not the problem - Battlefront is the problem. I can't play any of the addons (marines, british forces, nato or Afghanistan)

[Dolan50]

I don't have problems paying for a DLC if it added new content and enhanced my game.
I think the people who make this new stuff should be compensated some how for their time and effort.

But I wouldn't pay for a patch that only fixes things that were broken,I expect those for free.
I shouldn't have to pay extra to fix a defective product.

I think calling patches upgrades and requiring the customer to pay to upgrade so that they can accept the companies new line of products is a dis-service to the customer and a poor marketing move.

I never liked paying for upgrades and I especially dislike products that require frequent upgrades to keep your product running properly.Too me it's nothing more than a price gouging practice.

So for me,new content I have no problem paying for.
Upgrades and patches,maybe if I think paying for it is actually worth it and not some new scheme to rip me off.

[Tuna]

Thanks but the ones I want replacement keys for I bought from Battlefront.

Combat Mission:Shock Force loads - GG is not the problem - Battlefront is the problem. I can't play any of the addons (marines, british forces, nato or Afghanistan)

Well then BF should take care of you!.. If not, tell them that you are a prominent figure in the wargaming community, and if they don't take care of you heads will roll!!

[Tuna]

Kind of scares me cause I bought my CMSF from GG and the bundle from GG.. I only started it up right after I upgraded and it seemed to work.. but so did my CMBN, then a few days later.. Bamm CMBN stopped working, which they fixed quickly.. but maybe I should start CMSF again and make sure it's still working..