CM Red Thunder page is up

Started by undercovergeek, January 30, 2014, 05:30:15 PM

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Sir Slash

I purposely held-off buying Market-Garden so I wouldn't feel so bad about totally surrendering to this one. I'd buy an empty box if it had the Combat Mission logo on it.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

ComradeP

#16
Not excited until they improve tank vs. tank combat. I don't like what I read in the AAR's about how powerless defending tanks are and how the game seems to heavily favour the attacker. PC:O does a better job at handling armoured combat than what I see in the CMx2 AAR's.
The fact that these people drew inspiration...and then became chicken farmers - Cyrano, Dragon' Up The Past #45

undercovergeek

a beta AAR is just starting up on the forum one from the Russian side and one from the German


Michael Dorosh

#18
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 01, 2014, 06:02:57 AM
a beta AAR is just starting up on the forum one from the Russian side and one from the German

For those who want the actual link:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113383

This is Bil Hardenberger's thread, playing Soviet His opponent is John Costello, playing Soviet. I'd recommend reading the Soviet side, as the German player is not exactly gifted, he's just a guy from the beta tester pool who's been hanging around the forums for years. Bil though is also an old CM player who also posts regularly about history, tactics, etc. and IIRC has done some scenario design work in the past. I thought he also had a website where he discusses tactics which is quite good.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113402

I see this is one of the "DAR" deals where they go through what they are doing in real time. John is currently posting about how he can't manage a decent screenshot. Interesting start.

Grim.Reaper

I skipped over Market Garden, but this is looking like one I will need to pick up.  Not a huge fan of the Eastern Front, but do like some of the features they are introducing.  Hoping they do make these features available in the other lines, even if they are a few dollars.

Zonso

{fanboy cap on}Can there ever be too much of a good thing? This announcement has put me way over into the 'yes' camp. Two ongoing pbems in CMFI and CMBN, two languishing campaigns of the same, one MG campaign in full swing, and now out of the blue a pbem request by a half forgotten opponent from CMBB days for a Red Thunder match. Interesting times for the CM franchise, yet where to find the time to play and savor all this goodness??? Hmm, I will have a couple months to clear the plate....{/fanboy cap off}

I was very surprised by the included feature list of Red Thunder and the ver. 3 engine, and it seems many others have been as well judging by the flurry of activity the announcement generated. Either that or there is a pent up demand for some East Front action finally that has been unfulfilled since CMBB. Dunno, but it seems BFC has made a point of addressing many of the issues raised by fans (and critics) with the series and packing them in with the upgrade. The return of the C&C links will definitely be helpful and I am very happy to see the inclusion of AI Triggers to the game. On second thought, thinking what PaperTiger will do with that makes me slightly nervous. :) A bit of eye candy with the new hit decals doesn't hurt either. I look forward to seeing these features backported to CMBN/CMFI as well.

Not preordering though as the S&H is atrocious, digital download is the norm for me nowadays.

Zonso

#21
Quote from: ComradeP on February 01, 2014, 02:53:46 AM
Not excited until they improve tank vs. tank combat. I don't like what I read in the AAR's about how powerless defending tanks are and how the game seems to heavily favour the attacker. PC:O does a better job at handling armoured combat than what I see in the CMx2 AAR's.

Agree to disagree with your assessment of tank combat, especially with the reference to PCO. I think PCO had an opportunity to truly shine as a platoon/company level command game to distinguish itself from CMBB, but fumbled and dropped the ball with its muddled design imo.

You had mentioned previously you only saw ME type battles in the AARs, well there is an Attack battle beta-AAR being started for Red Thunder. Obviously the players are going to focus on highlighting some of the new kit and features, but you'll get the idea.

ComradeP

#22
QuoteAgree to disagree with your assessment of tank combat, especially with the reference to PCO. I think PCO had an opportunity to truly shine as a platoon/company level command game to distinguish itself from CMBB, but fumbled and dropped the ball with its muddled design imo.

You had mentioned previously you only saw ME type battles in the AARs, well there is an Attack battle beta-AAR being started for Red Thunder. Obviously the players are going to focus on highlighting some of the new kit and features, but you'll get the idea.

Well, PC:O has its arcadey elements where the design direction wasn't entirely clear, but it highlights the advantages of a properly positioned defending force. None of the CMx2 AAR's I've read have the defending force's armour perform nearly as well as what would happen in PC:O or presumably in a historical engagement. You see that differently, which is fine, like you said: agree to disagree, I can only comment on what the AAR's show me and I'm not as impressed by the engine as you are.

Hardenberger's comments on tactics are interesting and his AAR's are quite good, but he's also the guy who uses combat replay to precisely pinpoint where shots came from and uses recon units without realistic means of communicating with the rest of the on-map force to move his units precisely where he would get the most advantage out of them (which seems to be a standard tactic, which is sort of weird: the players who wanted realism were happy to see Borg spotting go, but now they're using a mechanic that's nearly as ahistorical).

Now, that is of course also a sign of great skill, but it just ruins most of the immersion for me and it highlights how much the defender can be screwed due to the advantages given to the attacker in the engine. Considering that, like in the AAR with the Ferdinand/Elefant for CMBI/GL, his opponent is less skilled than him it seems, I'm guessing it will be another clear case of him mopping the floor with the opposition. I'm not really sure why they didn't select an equally skilled veteran to play against him for the AAR's.
The fact that these people drew inspiration...and then became chicken farmers - Cyrano, Dragon' Up The Past #45

undercovergeek

As a cmsf 2 beta tester we've just been given sneaky access to red thunder.... I'll run a few things through a scenario and see what it's like

Con

how did you get on the CMSF beta testing gig?

I would be very interested in that however my time commitments with work and the kids at home are ramping up so if they are looking from semi pro testers I dont think I could provide that level of input.

I am sure you already know to be careful of comments on unreleased games.  These types of discussions can fly out of control so quickly especially when it comes to a franchise like Combat Mission

Con 

Jarhead0331

Quote from: undercovergeek on February 01, 2014, 12:04:49 PM
As a cmsf 2 beta tester...

What what WHAT? I didn't even know this was in the works!!!
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Zulu1966

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 01, 2014, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 01, 2014, 12:04:49 PM
As a cmsf 2 beta tester...

What what WHAT? I didn't even know this was in the works!!!

Yes - it relates to a NATO conflict with Russia presumably in the Ukraine.

What with them choosing syria for the first and now Ukraine looking like its going to blow up - BF are in danger of having to be careful where they locate any of their modern games in future.
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

GDS_Starfury

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 01, 2014, 08:25:11 AM
Not a huge fan of the Eastern Front, but do like some of the features they are introducing. 

theres no front like Ostfront!  its where the real wargames happen.  8)
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Gusington

Eastern Front is the most interesting to me, so this will be my first CM game. Ever!


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Sir Slash

Gus! You're a CM Virgin? Hard to believe. Everyone needs to watch at least once as the AI MG's mow-down your helpless infantry or as a herd of your Shermans are taken-out by a hidden AT gun shooting at them from somewhere in Kansas. That's REAL gaming Man. My fav scenario was the original CMBO- the Wittman scenario where he takes on the whole 7th Armored Div. single-handedly. And I see the CM Scenario depository has the very same scenario available now for download. Gotta get it.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.