Sins Of a Solar Empire 2

[Grim.Reaper]

What happened with galciv?

See post #11
Hard to imagine anyone making such a poor business decision.

Guess didn't see a huge deal myself.  Originally purchased in 2021 for $29.99, with a coupon that had $10 off.  People that own the Epic version can upgrade to Supernova for $15.99.  That brings my total cost to $45.98.  Supernova version on steam for the base version is $49.99, which my total investment is less for the same thing.  Even if didn't have the coupon, I guess my cost would have been around $55.  So at worst case $5 more for playing the game much earlier than Steam release.

That's fair when you break it down like that. However, it would have been really nice if Stardock had thanked early adopters on Epic by giving them a key on Steam. After all, the Supernova version is not available at all on Epic, and as far as I understand, the Epic version is no longer receiving updates. Thus Epic owners are forced to buy on steam if they want to experience the most up to date supported version. Stardock easily could have turned this into a big win rather than rubbing a lot of players the wrong way.

But even if required to buy, still about same cost as people who buy directly on steam.  I understand might have been nice to get a steam key, but don't think they ever promised anything like that so I guess I just assume risk when I knowingly buy into games early.  Certainly respect others feel differently, but for me not really    a huge deal as any minor extra cost i chalk up to playing much earlier (around 2 years) than others.  In sins case, they have stated strong desire to provide the steam key, so let's see what they do this time.

They didn't promise that, but they also didn't put Epic buyers on notice that the Steam version was going to have a major game changing update that the Epic version was not going to receive nor that the Epic version was going to be, in essence, abandoned once released on Steam. This is what really pissed me off the most. Had I known, I would not have bought on Epic at all.

Fair being upset about them not supporting on epic.  I guess for me, I typically get the latest versions beyond base so I would have done any way, which I did for the $15 and total cost was still cheaper for me versus buying when released on steam.  But I get it.

Let's hope they do better this time.

[solops]

In almost all businesses company reputation and customer relations are paramount. I am unfamiliar with the incident other than what was related here, but this seems like an easily avoided, self inflicted wound. Just the mention of it is enough to put this potential customer off. Regardless of whatever real or potential expense may have been involved, the perception of mistreatment has very high damage potential to a company. I do not want to do business with a company that does not value me as a customer. I have over 30 unplayed games. I do not NEED to buy another. The seller had better convince me that that his product is good and that he values me as a buyer of his product, that he cares about my satisfaction and lives only to make me happy. Yeah, i know he's probably lying, but he has to sell it to me and make an effort to make it so. Companies live on repeat customers! Its not just the money, it is how i am treated. I am a sensitive guy!

[solops]

- sniffle -

[Grim.Reaper]

Yep, everyone has to decide who they want to invest in and for what reason.  In this case, at least for me not enough reason for me to not ever do business with the company, in the end worked out cheaper for me so really don't have a major issue at this time, but I certainly agree if the company knew they were headed in this direction they should have informed their customer base at the time they knew so people could have made an informed purchasing decision.

[Destraex]

...and let me guess...it will include some kind of an update that will not be provided to those who bought early access on Epic. Stardock and Wardell screwed everyone over like this with Gal Civ IV.

Actually there is a rumour going around that epic owners who purchased before a particular date might get a steam key.
But no difference in content that I know of and ironclad are ensuring the title is platform neutral for modding and crossplay.

[Grim.Reaper]

Yep, mentioned a few times above about developers stating they were 99% sure about prior purchases before the steam announcement on may 1st would get steam keys and so far no mention of different versions,

[Destraex]

A good write up by the devs on some of the differences between earlier sins titles and sins2:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/527795/page/1/#3930114

[Destraex]

I am loving the new feature the devs added that allows you to adjust your defences to the changing planetary alignment and phase lane changes by moving your defences. This is a slow process and your defences will not fire and are not operational for any other functions while being transported under basic thrusters.

[Destraex]

Have to say I am a little bummed that streamers are showing off the advent while early access supporters are left to wait for release. I hate spoilers and love to get in early, but when this sort of thing happens it just leaves a bad taste i the mouth.

I knew it was going to happen but now that it's happened and others get to play in front of me with my toys, teasing me after I already own the game. I dunno, I guess I must just feel entitled. Am I being a brat? For being able to get access to the latest  public beta and stable builds and then all of a sudden have another party get exclusive rights to another form of early access?

[rss334]

A good write up by the devs on some of the differences between earlier sins titles and sins2:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/527795/page/1/#3930114

I remember watching some youtube videos of this a few month back being excited it was announced, then after seeing the videos I thought man this looks just like the original sins.   This document was helpful, thank you. So many sequels get screwed up because they try to change the formula that made the original games so good, looks like this is just a case of keeping the same formula but just enhancing the gameplay and UI.  This is how sequels should be done, if you want to completely change a game then don't create a sequel, create a new game.

[steve58]

Coming to Steam on August 15, 2024.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1575940?emclan=103582791474504856&emgid=4372516065077757061

[CaptainKoloth]

A good write up by the devs on some of the differences between earlier sins titles and sins2:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/527795/page/1/#3930114

I remember watching some youtube videos of this a few month back being excited it was announced, then after seeing the videos I thought man this looks just like the original sins.   This document was helpful, thank you. So many sequels get screwed up because they try to change the formula that made the original games so good, looks like this is just a case of keeping the same formula but just enhancing the gameplay and UI.  This is how sequels should be done, if you want to completely change a game then don't create a sequel, create a new game.

I actually have a different take on this. There was so much potential this had that exists in the engine that they're not realizing. Long screed follows.

The new systems that track where each individual weapons system is pointed and so forth could have in theory allowed for really interesting emergent gameplay resulting in fleet-style maneuvers like at Jutland or other real-world naval battles.

Opportunities for this to enhance gameplay seem boundless. Where is the button to arrange your capital ships and titans to take missiles to their broadside and defend the rest of the fleet? Where the option to orient my ships such that lasers, or point turrets, are brought to bear against the enemy in one direction, perhaps leaving another open to attack? Why can't I order my cruisers to go out of plane in the z direction so that I can fire my lasers past the line of heavily shielded vessels the enemy has lined up in front?

It would seem that, for example, a simple set of buttons could enhance the tactical options greatly. Just as for example in Sins I there were buttons for tight and loose fleet formations, you could imagine buttons ordering ships to turn turrets in a certain direction, to line themselves up in linear formations in 2 or 3 dimensions, line up capital ships in front, hide them in the rear, etc.

The possibilities for emergent gameplay are boundless. Rather than being based primarily on who can arrange the largest deathball, battles would be far more tactical in nature, where an extra element of strategy has to be brought to bear in order to win. Slipped that destroyer between the enemy's capital ships? Now they can't easily fire at for fear of hitting other friendlies (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars is a good piece of science fiction that shows this exact situation and how difficult it is for the enemy to combat the tactic even in a three-dimensional battle). "I was going to lose that Titan but was able to send my flak ships in a line in front of it, soaking up the missiles and giving the Titan a chance to use its ability to and turn the tide of battle". The enemy has a formidable fleet of battleships? Good luck attacking your cruisers as they arch over them in the Z dimensions and they have to make big lumbering turns to bring their weapons to bear.

Sorry to go so long on this topic, but I'm really frustrated because the technical machinery seems to be there in the engine to do all of this, but at some level they're just slapping a new coat of paint on it and calling it a day. I don't get it.

[Destraex]

A good write up by the devs on some of the differences between earlier sins titles and sins2:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/527795/page/1/#3930114

I remember watching some youtube videos of this a few month back being excited it was announced, then after seeing the videos I thought man this looks just like the original sins.   This document was helpful, thank you. So many sequels get screwed up because they try to change the formula that made the original games so good, looks like this is just a case of keeping the same formula but just enhancing the gameplay and UI.  This is how sequels should be done, if you want to completely change a game then don't create a sequel, create a new game.

I actually have a different take on this. There was so much potential this had that exists in the engine that they're not realizing. Long screed follows.

The new systems that track where each individual weapons system is pointed and so forth could have in theory allowed for really interesting emergent gameplay resulting in fleet-style maneuvers like at Jutland or other real-world naval battles.

Opportunities for this to enhance gameplay seem boundless. Where is the button to arrange your capital ships and titans to take missiles to their broadside and defend the rest of the fleet? Where the option to orient my ships such that lasers, or point turrets, are brought to bear against the enemy in one direction, perhaps leaving another open to attack? Why can't I order my cruisers to go out of plane in the z direction so that I can fire my lasers past the line of heavily shielded vessels the enemy has lined up in front?

It would seem that, for example, a simple set of buttons could enhance the tactical options greatly. Just as for example in Sins I there were buttons for tight and loose fleet formations, you could imagine buttons ordering ships to turn turrets in a certain direction, to line themselves up in linear formations in 2 or 3 dimensions, line up capital ships in front, hide them in the rear, etc.

The possibilities for emergent gameplay are boundless. Rather than being based primarily on who can arrange the largest deathball, battles would be far more tactical in nature, where an extra element of strategy has to be brought to bear in order to win. Slipped that destroyer between the enemy's capital ships? Now they can't easily fire at for fear of hitting other friendlies (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars is a good piece of science fiction that shows this exact situation and how difficult it is for the enemy to combat the tactic even in a three-dimensional battle). "I was going to lose that Titan but was able to send my flak ships in a line in front of it, soaking up the missiles and giving the Titan a chance to use its ability to and turn the tide of battle". The enemy has a formidable fleet of battleships? Good luck attacking your cruisers as they arch over them in the Z dimensions and they have to make big lumbering turns to bring their weapons to bear.

Sorry to go so long on this topic, but I'm really frustrated because the technical machinery seems to be there in the engine to do all of this, but at some level they're just slapping a new coat of paint on it and calling it a day. I don't get it.

I agree. In fact I have seen it advertised that their is more tactical gameplay than sins1. But this is really debatable. What their are, are more options to customise your deathball ships.

The one thing that does stand out though is that some ships have turrets now which means you can roll past with your deathball and keep shooting. Another cool thing I am not sure was in sins 1 is that  dedicated anti fighter ships also shoot missiles down.

[Destraex]

Releases in 4hrs apparently on Epic and Steam simulateously.

[rss334]

A good write up by the devs on some of the differences between earlier sins titles and sins2:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/527795/page/1/#3930114

I remember watching some youtube videos of this a few month back being excited it was announced, then after seeing the videos I thought man this looks just like the original sins.   This document was helpful, thank you. So many sequels get screwed up because they try to change the formula that made the original games so good, looks like this is just a case of keeping the same formula but just enhancing the gameplay and UI.  This is how sequels should be done, if you want to completely change a game then don't create a sequel, create a new game.

I actually have a different take on this. There was so much potential this had that exists in the engine that they're not realizing. Long screed follows.

The new systems that track where each individual weapons system is pointed and so forth could have in theory allowed for really interesting emergent gameplay resulting in fleet-style maneuvers like at Jutland or other real-world naval battles.

Opportunities for this to enhance gameplay seem boundless. Where is the button to arrange your capital ships and titans to take missiles to their broadside and defend the rest of the fleet? Where the option to orient my ships such that lasers, or point turrets, are brought to bear against the enemy in one direction, perhaps leaving another open to attack? Why can't I order my cruisers to go out of plane in the z direction so that I can fire my lasers past the line of heavily shielded vessels the enemy has lined up in front?

It would seem that, for example, a simple set of buttons could enhance the tactical options greatly. Just as for example in Sins I there were buttons for tight and loose fleet formations, you could imagine buttons ordering ships to turn turrets in a certain direction, to line themselves up in linear formations in 2 or 3 dimensions, line up capital ships in front, hide them in the rear, etc.

The possibilities for emergent gameplay are boundless. Rather than being based primarily on who can arrange the largest deathball, battles would be far more tactical in nature, where an extra element of strategy has to be brought to bear in order to win. Slipped that destroyer between the enemy's capital ships? Now they can't easily fire at for fear of hitting other friendlies (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars is a good piece of science fiction that shows this exact situation and how difficult it is for the enemy to combat the tactic even in a three-dimensional battle). "I was going to lose that Titan but was able to send my flak ships in a line in front of it, soaking up the missiles and giving the Titan a chance to use its ability to and turn the tide of battle". The enemy has a formidable fleet of battleships? Good luck attacking your cruisers as they arch over them in the Z dimensions and they have to make big lumbering turns to bring their weapons to bear.

Sorry to go so long on this topic, but I'm really frustrated because the technical machinery seems to be there in the engine to do all of this, but at some level they're just slapping a new coat of paint on it and calling it a day. I don't get it.

I agree. In fact I have seen it advertised that their is more tactical gameplay than sins1. But this is really debatable. What their are, are more options to customise your deathball ships.

The one thing that does stand out though is that some ships have turrets now which means you can roll past with your deathball and keep shooting. Another cool thing I am not sure was in sins 1 is that  dedicated anti fighter ships also shoot missiles down.

While disappointing to hear in some respects I'm also somewhat happy to hear it.   So many sequel end up ruining what made the first game so great.   This is one of those dammed if they do and dammed if they don't things.   If they change the gameplay too much they take heat, not enough take heat. 

They priced it @ $40 to release usd which if not much has changed I'd say it about $10.00 too much for current SOS1 people.  For anyone who's never played it I would say it's priced about right at $40 - $50.  What a treat to people who never played a sins solar empire game, I'll be curious to watch reviews and see how prior version players feel about the new release.