Total War: Warhammer

[Gusington]

Total War.

[jomni]

I won a large battle where all my troops retreated except my lone Dwarf general. He beat every other enemy unit and led to victory. 

[Nefaro]

Total War.

I've played something like 16 or 17 hours.  Much more left to go.

Only tried Greenskins and Vampire Counts thus far.

[Gusington]

^Initial opinion/impressions?

[Nefaro]

^Initial opinion/impressions?

TW: Warhammer is more army/warfare focused than previous ones.  By that I mean most of the settlement improvements are for unlocking various unit types.  The economy is tighter, too, since there are few wealth-improving buildings to be had.  This tends to result in fewer armies, overall, but they are more varied.  Especially with the commanders and heroes having far more RPG-style progression.

As Jarhead mentioned, each faction's armies are different.  Being a fantasy-themed Total War, they're obviously able to enhance the faction individuality without all the restraints of the previous historical themes.  Not just via troop types, which is wonderful, but also with differing economies that drive their military play style. 

The engine is basically TW Attila, with most of it's improvements.  But some of the new features are quite a leap. 

Your Army Commanders and Heroes level-up, as they have in past TWs, but they have more options & flexibility in Warhammer.  Aside from the Agent activities like those from the other TW games, they can also fight on the battlefield.  One man wrecking crews.  Between those options, possible magic choices, and Magical Equipment (from post-battle loot & some mission rewards) you have a good deal more options on specialization.  It lends a better RPG feel to your leaders & heroes.  I feel more attached to them, in TW Warhammer, and that's a great thing.

This thing also drips Warhammer theme.  From the beautiful faction-specific UI art & paintings, to the excellent voice acting, to the wonderful music (which I normally turn off in most games).  It's really a work of art. 

The combat is just a bit too fast, for my taste, but I've said the same of Shogun 2 and other TW games so that's nothing new.  I just rebind the 'Pause' hotkey closer to the WASD camera controls ('C' iirc), to occasionally stop the action easily & issue orders when too much is happening at once.  Pretty much the same as other TWs, but this one also has flying units, and some that are very fast.  I think a Warg or Giant Bat unit (don't recall which) has a speed of 125, for example, while most infantry types are around 36-45.   So a few types can come at you pretty quick. 

Combat is, of course, quite enjoyable with all the additions in this new fantasy themed TW.  Watching a giant monster smashing hordes of man-sized enemies, or a big winged beast descend onto them, is damn entertaining.

I tended to hate siege battles in the past two or three TWs.  It often seemed like those were the only battles which would happen for long stretches, in those.  Thus far, playing Warhammer, I feel as if I'm getting more open field battles.  This is a huge plus!  Also doesn't hurt that the Warhammer siege battles are less "fidgety" too.  Like they compacted them into less of a messy map than they had been in Attila and Rome 2.  8)

I'm glad Warhammer regular units don't have those extra clickable abilities, like previous TWs.  Always thought those were too contrived and a pain in the ass considering how quickly combat was usually joined by the masses.  Now only the commanders & heroes have such things, but there can be quite a few once you've leveled and equipped one of them into badassery.  They can have multiple abilities, spells, and effects from magic items.  Can build up some real brutes, but you only have to worry about using such activated things on your few hero units instead of every damn unit in the army.  ^-^

It is also pretty stable, and relatively bug-free for a TW release.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd compare it to the Shogun 2 release.   O0




My CONs:

> Needs moar factions!  Not a big deal at the moment, since each faction is so much more varied than past TWs.  With the extra RPG mechanics for heroes, the replayability of each is better than ever.  Especially since there are two different options for your main leader, for each faction start, and you're generally pushed into specializing toward certain troop type lines more than others.  We'll definitely be getting DLC anyway, and I'm very much looking forward to them.  I wanna see Skaven Stormvermin chopping up humies ASAP (for example).  I only see this eventually becoming an issue if they take too long putting out extra faction DLCs, since each faction obviously takes more time to create than in past games of the series.  Doubt they're gonna waffle, though, since CA loves it's DLCs.

> I actually miss some of the extra campaign-level economy management.  This could be a PRO for some people who always struggled with such things in earlier TWs, so keep in mind this is just hot-warm-cold porridge preference. There is still some econ to be had in Warhammer, but it's less than the previous ones.  This is more warfare oriented.  Although it seems like they've also added more random Missions than ever before, and that tends to break up the invade-invade-invade rut a bit along with more aggressive AI armies.

> Higher quality army units tend to start popping out rather quickly in some of the AI armies.  Seems like I'm a bit behind the curve when it comes to getting the proper Research & Buildings unlocked.  At the same time, the campaign AI is proving challenging in some areas, so that's actually a plus too.  Noticed that you need to focus more on a single unit improvement line, and specialize more in order to keep up.

> TWW is a little more demanding of your video and/or CPU than Attila and Rome 2.  I'm positive this is due to all the extra 3D terrain represented on both the campaign map and in battles.  There are some pretty amazing looking landscapes to experience, if you got the juice to run it.  Looks great on my desktop PC and don't even have it cranked up to 11 (set at High or Very High iirc).  My laptop has to run it on Low video settings; the first TW game I've had to lower it that far on ye olde Acer Aspire M (puny Core i5 and GT640M).  Still runs it though.

I'm trying to think of more cons, but other than a weird Nvidia flickering (easily fixed by Alt+Tab'ing out & back in after startup), I'm not seeing anything big in the way of negatives right now.  It's a great base game, and can only get better.


One last thing: 

Expect the campaign to be challenging until you get familiar with each faction, it's units, and it's strengths/weaknesses.  My first campaign, as the Greenskins, was a pretty brutal back & forth affair while at constant war with neighboring Dwarves & Greenskins.  Took me awhile to figure out how to herd the extra WAAAAGH armies and it was still clumsy to move in tandem, getting some of those extra AI-run armies dead in the attempt.



Anyway.. I love it.

Would've played a lot more TW Warhammer by now, but it runs a bit sluggish on my wimpy laptop video card where I often play single-player stuff these days.  Also did a lot of World of Warships wit Da Boyz this past month, so time was divided.

[jomni]

I like the unique faction specific objectives / characteristics and the conquering limitations. For example the Dwarves keep grudges and the more grudges you leave unfulfilled, leads to loss of face (economic, diplomatic consequences). Orks need to keep waging war. If you become peaceful, they fight themselves (attrition). Dwarves and Orcs can only conquer each other's lands and not Human realms. Humans and Vampires can conquer each other but not the little guys.  So it's not just about taking land. Forces you to make more choices.

It gives a lot of flavour.

[Gusington]

Wow...little in the way of dissent here. I can't believe it! Thanks for taking the time to post the above guys.

[mirth]

Ready to buy it?

[mikeck]

I'm enjoying it a lot...but I cheat. I picked up a mod that removes army maintenance costs. With those costs I can only get 4 stacks; break even. There is no way I can fight the vampire counts to my southeast, chaos to the west and the vargs/skaeling Viking guys in the north and northeast. If I lose public order and have to "untax" a province, then I can't support the army. I limit myself to six and bank the rest.

[Fetrik]

I don't think anyone mentioned that if you click away the movies the client starts in less than 5 seconds. That's a huge plus for the people that remember Shogun 2.

[Gusington]

^What do you mean?

Still haven't capitulated yet Mirth :)

[jomni]

I'm enjoying it a lot...but I cheat. I picked up a mod that removes army maintenance costs. With those costs I can only get 4 stacks; break even. There is no way I can fight the vampire counts to my southeast, chaos to the west and the vargs/skaeling Viking guys in the north and northeast. If I lose public order and have to "untax" a province, then I can't support the army. I limit myself to six and bank the rest.

You got quests?  Maybe you should perform them as they can give a significant amount of money.  Then use the reward to build money generating upgrades.

[mikeck]

I'm enjoying it a lot...but I cheat. I picked up a mod that removes army maintenance costs. With those costs I can only get 4 stacks; break even. There is no way I can fight the vampire counts to my southeast, chaos to the west and the vargs/skaeling Viking guys in the north and northeast. If I lose public order and have to "untax" a province, then I can't support the army. I limit myself to six and bank the rest.

You got quests?  Maybe you should perform them as they can give a significant amount of money.  Then use the reward to build money generating upgrades.

Yep. Usually it's $1500 or so in the treasury or some cool loot (an aspect I love...equipping army leaders and heroes with special armor and weapons) but that's not a lot of $$. With 6 armies, your looking at 8k or so a Turn in maintenance. Maybe more. Plus the higher level buildings have more maintenance costs. At this late stage I'm dealing with the Chaos invasion, war with the vampire lords, and two Viking invasions of the Skaeling and Varg. Plus, i have to use commandments and heroes with anti-Corruption buffs to keep down province chaos and vampiric corruption. Heroes cost $$ too.

Edit: I should also add that although I do have a lot of revenue generating buildings, I had to replace a lot of them with "temples of sigmar" to help fight corruption. I have rebuilt "the empire" bringing all the human nations between bretonnia and osterand into it. That's a lot of love territory and I need high level unit construction buildings in more locations than I would like to support the armies.

[jomni]

I have now eliminated the Greenskins.  Now Chaos is attacking me and their army is super powerful.  :'(

[jomni]

My realm as we speak. 4000 income every turn.  Raiding Chaos armies and Norsca tribes in the Northern Worlds Edge Mountains. And some minor rebellions here and there.  I left the Vampires alone.  In the south I left some savage orcs alone and is pretty quiet there.  But I'm about to finish them off to complete the province.


Take note of the wastelands (ruined towns) in the north.  The AI doesn't seem to be keen on resettling as far as I have seen.