YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH
https://youtu.be/d_KcI61tdgI
(If you haven't played it- 1 is the best, most moddable space combat/RTS game ever made and still holds up today)
Wow. That is HUGE news. I suspect some will be disappointed that it appears to be Epic exclusive...at least initially.
Honestly I've never had any understanding at all of this irrational hatred people have for the Epic store. It's a platform selling Windows games exactly like Steam. Steam also is a form of DRM. Countless games are exclusive on Steam and nowhere else, as they are for Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo. It's OK to hate just one of those distribution systems and no others, I guess, but then don't expect to see the games you want developed actually get funded and made. I find this attitude incomprehensible.
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on September 15, 2022, 06:36:29 PM
Honestly I've never had any understanding at all of this irrational hatred people have for the Epic store. It's a platform selling Windows games exactly like Steam. Steam also is a form of DRM. Countless games are exclusive on Steam and nowhere else, as they are for Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo. It's OK to hate just one of those distribution systems and no others, I guess, but then don't expect to see the games you want developed actually get funded and made. I find this attitude incomprehensible.
I think it probably stems from the initial roll-out where there was some bad press about malicious behavior of the platform with respect to spyware or data harvesting. I'm not sure if any of this is true or not, and although I much prefer Steam to Epic as a digital library management system, I'm full in on Epic and have no problem using it.
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I prefer Steam, but have no issue with Epic. There's this weird extremely vocal contingent in the Redditverse however that seems to think Epic is basically directly controlled by Satan and they would rather not have a game even exist than have it be on Epic. I don't get it. :shrug:
I instinctively distrust Chinese owned tech companies ( Huawei being banned from supplying telecoms infrastructure by multple Western countries being a good example of why) so I will stick to Canadian owned Steam thanks, but each to ther own.
On the other hand, and more to the point this is a very welcome sequel providing it is done well. Big shoes to fill !
Finally :notworthy:
And the price is really nice.
I mostly hope to see improvements on the strategy map.
It seems logic that it's an Epic exclusive as it's a Stardock product (same procedure as GalCiv3)
Quote from: Anguille on September 16, 2022, 01:34:25 AM
Finally :notworthy:
And the price is really nice.
I mostly hope to see improvements on the strategy map.
It seems logic that it's an Epic exclusive as it's a Stardock product (same procedure as GalCiv3)
I think you mean GalCiv IV.
Quote from: devoncop on September 16, 2022, 01:14:15 AM
I instinctively distrust Chinese owned tech companies ( Huawei being banned from supplying telecoms infrastructure by multple Western countries being a good example of why) so I will stick to Canadian owned Steam thanks, but each to ther own.
On the other hand, and more to the point this is a very welcome sequel providing it is done well. Big shoes to fill !
As far as I know, Epic Games is an American company based out of North Carolina and owned by an American named Tim Sweeney. I think the "Chinese" connection was part of the initial bad press and misinformation that circulated when the epic games store was first rolled out. It doesn't seem like there is any actual Chinese connection.
Edit: It appears that the Chinese company Tencent may have a minority stake in the company, but it is certainly based in the US and controlled by an American.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 15, 2022, 07:05:58 PM
.....I'm full in on Epic and have no problem using it.
I'm happy to see Epic thrive. Steam needs some good competition to keep it honest. A Steam monopoly would be very bad for PC gaming in the long run.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 16, 2022, 04:11:26 AM
Quote from: Anguille on September 16, 2022, 01:34:25 AM
Finally :notworthy:
And the price is really nice.
I mostly hope to see improvements on the strategy map.
It seems logic that it's an Epic exclusive as it's a Stardock product (same procedure as GalCiv3)
I think you mean GalCiv IV.
Yes indeed....my bad
^Meh...at this point, who is even counting anyway? lol
Speaking of, did you try out GCIV? Thoughts?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 16, 2022, 09:19:32 AM
^Meh...at this point, who is even counting anyway? lol
Speaking of, did you try out GCIV? Thoughts?
Not yet, i have so many games library that are on my ToDo list...but i keep an eye on it. It's just i haven't very much into GalCiv after the first one (which i liked). Couldn't really get into the second nor the third one.
Hopefully by the time it gets to Steam they will have all the bugs fixed.
I should be excited about this, but I can't help thinking that the devs were on the fence about doing sins2 until they realised they could finance the game development with Epic money. I wonder how enthusiastic the devs really are about doing Sins2? Will this simply be a drop and run project, a normal 9-5 kinda deal? Is it a bandwagon trend.
At least we are getting sins right? Well so far apart from the orbit mechanics for planetary objects which were tried and discounted as too complicated for the original sins, I cannot really see anything new. The races are the same, multithreading though is new, as is the "claim" that their will be more 4x elements. Again here I get the impression that what the devs mean here is that they will take 4x elements from their "experiments" with the last Rebellion DLCs.
With Nebulous Fleet Command and Homeworld3 almost upon us I can certainly afford to wait for sins2 to prove itself.
I myself am not an Epic fan. But am amost certain to pickup sins2 if it reaches steam. Chivalry2 is a good example of problems you can have, Epic players still cannot friend Steam players to group up in game before searching for a match.
Quote from: Destraex on September 17, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
I should be excited about this, but I can't help thinking that the devs were on the fence about doing sins2 until they realised they could finance the game development with Epic money. I wonder how enthusiastic the devs really are about doing Sins2? Will this simply be a drop and run project, a normal 9-5 kinda deal? Is it a bandwagon trend.
I have no idea what intentions the developers have, but putting out a game is a lot of work and find it difficult to believe the developers wouldn't have some level of interest to even bother doing versus just going through the motions to make some quick money. They haven't done anything for awhile for this game series why would this all of a sudden be a need and go this route? Do you have an article or write up that you can link where they give some kind of hint this is a possibility?
Even if accurate that having some level of Epic support pushed them over the edge of putting out a new version, why is that a bad thing? I am sure plenty of developers have things they want to do and may require financial support to pursue them, especially for a game they hope to have high visibility, which of course leads to increased money?
Feels like these concerns (non-gameplay) are more about Epic then the game/developer themselves. Would the same concerns (non-gameplay) be raised if they deployed directly to Steam and had additional financial support in some other way? It's totally everyone's right to like or not like Epic, but think the developer deserves a chance until proven otherwise. Personally, I have no issues with Epic although their platform is not as robust as Steam and given the choice I would purchase from Steam first, but it wouldn't prevent me from buying games from Epic. But I understand that everyone doesn't feel that way.
I guess we'll see how it all turns out soon enough as the store page lists first access on October 27th.
^not only that, but Stardock isn't exactly a spring chicken. It's been around for awhile. We know how they operate and I think we know what to expect from their titles, good and bad alike.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2022, 06:07:25 AM
^not only that, but Stardock isn't exactly a spring chicken. It's been around for awhile. We know how they operate and I think we know what to expect from their titles, good and bad alike.
Yep, that too.....I was not very good at the previous versions, but enjoyed just watching the battles. I'll be picking up for sure and hopefully it clicks better for me this time.
Quote from: Destraex on September 17, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
I should be excited about this, but I can't help thinking that the devs were on the fence about doing sins2 until they realised they could finance the game development with Epic money. I wonder how enthusiastic the devs really are about doing Sins2? Will this simply be a drop and run project, a normal 9-5 kinda deal? Is it a bandwagon trend.
At least we are getting sins right? Well so far apart from the orbit mechanics for planetary objects which were tried and discounted as too complicated for the original sins, I cannot really see anything new. The races are the same, multithreading though is new, as is the "claim" that their will be more 4x elements. Again here I get the impression that what the devs mean here is that they will take 4x elements from their "experiments" with the last Rebellion DLCs.
With Nebulous Fleet Command and Homeworld3 almost upon us I can certainly afford to wait for sins2 to prove itself.
I myself am not an Epic fan. But am amost certain to pickup sins2 if it reaches steam. Chivalry2 is a good example of problems you can have, Epic players still cannot friend Steam players to group up in game before searching for a match.
You make some good points, though I figure, best outcome we get a great game, and worst comes to worst... Sins 1 isn't going anywhere. It's sort of win win.
I find it peculiar that they release news of this on the heals of updates for Homeworld 3.
The RTS genre has been mostly dormant for what, over a decade minus some outliers and H3 is one of the more anticipated titles and they decide to drop this?
Doesn't seem to make much sense to me. But hey, I'm just a guy, what do I know
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 18, 2022, 05:21:16 AM
Quote from: Destraex on September 17, 2022, 09:01:50 PM
I should be excited about this, but I can't help thinking that the devs were on the fence about doing sins2 until they realised they could finance the game development with Epic money. I wonder how enthusiastic the devs really are about doing Sins2? Will this simply be a drop and run project, a normal 9-5 kinda deal? Is it a bandwagon trend.
I have no idea what intentions the developers have, but putting out a game is a lot of work and find it difficult to believe the developers wouldn't have some level of interest to even bother doing versus just going through the motions to make some quick money. They haven't done anything for awhile for this game series why would this all of a sudden be a need and go this route? Do you have an article or write up that you can link where they give some kind of hint this is a possibility?
Even if accurate that having some level of Epic support pushed them over the edge of putting out a new version, why is that a bad thing? I am sure plenty of developers have things they want to do and may require financial support to pursue them, especially for a game they hope to have high visibility, which of course leads to increased money?
Feels like these concerns (non-gameplay) are more about Epic then the game/developer themselves. Would the same concerns (non-gameplay) be raised if they deployed directly to Steam and had additional financial support in some other way? It's totally everyone's right to like or not like Epic, but think the developer deserves a chance until proven otherwise. Personally, I have no issues with Epic although their platform is not as robust as Steam and given the choice I would purchase from Steam first, but it wouldn't prevent me from buying games from Epic. But I understand that everyone doesn't feel that way.
I guess we'll see how it all turns out soon enough as the store page lists first access on October 27th.
I hear you, I have no proof, just past projects like Total War Troy. That also seemed like it would not have happened without EPIC and was done simply because EPIC threw money at CA. I have no proof of that either. Just observing the results and coming to my own unsupported conclusions.
I was always going to give them a chance. I am just trying to dissuade myself from any form of early access.
Disappointment is the foundation of revolt, my friend! :)
Early access now up for 39.99
https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/sins-of-a-solar-empire-ii
Watched some of the youtube videos with footage. I hope they have a lot more surprises up their sleeves. Because this looks much like a remaster rather than a sequel at the moment. Fingers crossed.
Time will tell but a post by the company that explains the route they are going. If they are believed, they plan to make changes based on community feedback along the way and we are way early in this process.
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire2.com/515090/sins-ii-we-need-your-help
Patch update today.....happened to notice and EPIC coupon for the holiday, so I decided to buy today...would have caved eventually anyway:)
NEW FACTION
Added initial content for TEC Rebel faction
NEW UNITS
Added TEC Sova capital ship
Added TEC Marza capital ship
Added TEC Dunov capital ship
Added TEC Neruda Envoy
Added TEC Argonev starbase
Added Phase Inhibitor
NEW SHIP COMPONENTS
Added Exotic Salvage Policy:
Insures the capital ship so that exotics used in its manufacture are automatically recovered in the event the ship is destroyed
Your initial free capital ship comes with this insurance in its inventory. The goal is to make it much easier to rebuild your capital ship if it was destroyed early in the game
Added Mobile Argonev Starbase:
Grants capital ships the ability to deploy starbases at remote locations
NEW PLANET COMPONENTS
Added Munitions Plant:
grants bonus dps to allied structures and starbases in orbit
Remade Autonomous Refinery:
improves orbital resource extraction rates
only available on certain planet types (e.g. asteroids)
Added Civic University:
Establishes ground-based Civilian research facilities.
Added Hidden Military Lab:
Establishes ground-based Military research facilities.
NEW MAP
Added 5 player random medium map
Renamed the previous map with a "_custom" postfix to indicate it was a custom hand-made design (as opposed to randomly generated)
NEW CULTURE
Added initial TEC culture content
NEW RESEARCH SYSTEM:
Added first pass of new research system and interface. Still incomplete but gives a better idea of the direction we are heading. Focus is on the gameplay of research and the structure of the interface (not the aesthetics).
GAMEPLAY
Orbital resource extractor structures are now dependent on research, not mining track levels
Switched Kol's Finest Hour to deal a percentage of damage dealt as splash damage rather than a fixed amount
Fixed Energized Space planet bonus bad data
Fix derelict loot spawning inside stars
Fixed upgraded Retrofit Bay not repairing corvettes and frigates
Changed item building to allow queuing of items if their prerequisite items are queued, but only build them if those prerequisites are finished
Fixed Media Conglomerate buff not being removed when item is removed
MODELS
Update TEC Exotic Refinery mesh
Updated TEC Gauss Defense mesh
Updated TEC Retrofit Bay mesh
Updated TEC Heavy Factory mesh
Updated TEC Light Factory mesh
Updated Pirate Pillager mesh
Update experiment with TEC Kol textures (testing new detail and scale cues)
RENDERING
FPS optimizations: Some hardware combinations could receive 5x to 50x fps improvement
Fixed dynamic light discontinuities (e.g., when bombing a planet)
BALANCE
Nothing of consequence unless it was part of a complete system change
Not a priority at this stage
USER INTERFACE
Added temporary new scuttle interface:
Select all units to scuttle, press 'delete' key to scuttle en masse
You may need to delete \AppData\Local\sins2_pre_alpha\settings\input_bindings.json and restart the game to force the new default key bindings.
If you made custom key binding edits and don't want to lose them you can also edit the file manually:
-"toggle_scuttle_units": [
{
"keyboard_key": "del"
}],
Added new bottom bar structure for ships and planets:
Added ship and structure build groups to help with organization
Added planet bonus and artifact buttons
Removed planet asset rates from window (info still available on tooltip)
Removed set rally point button (right click to set rally points or use related ship component)
Added advanced planet window
Moved excavation to be with other track buttons
Adjusted advanced and carrier bottom bars to leave room for build queue
Added new exotic window
Improved fleet supply window
Improved colonized planet window
Escape menu can now be accessed from the root window by pressing the escape key
Added close button to escape menu
Added dpi settings to settings->user interface window
Fixed various dpi issues
Removed extra background from buttons
Update various unit main view icons
Added various background windows
Added disabled state to npc reward buttons
Added focused_text_color
Added garrison tooltip icons (main view icons will be coming at a later date)
Added highlighted state to default button
Added item_prerequisites to item_tooltip
Added pirate portraits
Added merchant and miner npc player portraits
Added new exotic pictures
Adjusted the spacing of the top bar on the title screen
Added ability to customize cursors for different npc rewards (e.g., pirate raid vs others)
Attached name and culture indicator properly to picture window
Updated notification icons
Fixed notification spacing
Fixed auction button spacing
Darkened assorted hud frames
Updated structure of some front-end screens
Cleaned up some front-end layout issues
Fixed tooltip flickering when over an extractor AND canceled extractor
Fixed culture indicator tooltip showing up when unit not visible
Suppressed culture rate tooltip value rendering if the rate is zero
Fixed missing nightmare difficulty icon
Fixed npc auction bid button alignment
Fixed Advent and Vasari player icons showing up for TEC
Fixed random hud components never getting focused
Fixed top bar buttons being active when they shouldn't be
Fixed ultimate exotic reward icon binding
Fixed unit bars in ship window not showing shields and antimatter
Fixed units without gui (e.g., debris) getting into bookmark window
Fixed camera panning
Fixed waiting for exotic on tooltip for newly built structures
Hide player icons on meshes when cursor over by default
Improved unit name text entry behavior
Added lock and open icons
Added icons and layout for the discord, forum, and guide
Added new test cursors
Added npc reward targeting UI (can customize cursors for different npc rewards (pirate raid vs others))
EFFECTS
Experiment with TEC Kol exhaust particles (testing new particle behaviors)
Experiment with TEC Kol Heavy Gauss effects (testing new particle behaviors)
Added placeholder muzzle effect for Kol beam
Added particle effects spawned from beam effects
Added beam duration to muzzle effects
Added placeholder effects for Research Station PSIDAR
Added placeholder projectile effect to EMP Droids
Added variation seeding to particle_effects so there is less perfectly synchronized behavior (e.g., dual barrel muzzle flashes)
Fixed acceleration of particles not being cleared
AUDIO
Added missile impact sfx alternates
Added physical heavy hull impact sfx alternates
Added physical medium hull impact sfx alternates
Added physical light hull impact sfx alternates
Added more music
Updated capitalship death explosion sfx
Updated cruiser death sfx
Updated TEC capital ship exhaust sfx
Updated TEC frigate death sfx
Updated TEC strikecraft death sfx
Updated TEC corvette death sfx
CRASHES
Fixed crash in exotic_tooltip
Fixed crash in planet tooltip
Fixed crash when dragging ship items in production window
Fixed crash when dragging research items
Fixed common assert(is_unit) (very likely to cause crashes)
MISC
Removed garrison ships from player regular ship unit limit
Added trigger events and action to support modifying pending damage as it is registered
Add text-based rendering_system settings to help track down video card issues
Fixed acquire research tier exotic reservations not being cleaned up
Fixed various misleading strings
Fixed various string misspellings
Fixed militia attacking derelict guardians
Added ignoring of old save games that could cause crashes
Fixed missing "delete" key binding for Scuttle action
Fixed unable to rename ships and planets
Fixed tooltip overlapping bottom bar at lower resolutions
Fix list box inverted scrolling with mouse scroll wheel
Fixed all Point Defense weapons not acquiring best possible target
Fixed Starbase beams and missiles being enabled prematurely
Fixed Dunov only firing 1 missile per volley
Fixed Dunov and Sova attack alignments
Improved Kol, Dunov, and Sova firing arcs
Adjusted research balance slightly
Adjusted economy slightly
OK, I've been able to put a good number of hours into the game over the holiday - not as much as I'd like to really think through the game mechanics deeply (that would be hundreds of hours), but at least a couple dozen- enough that I feel like I can give some high-level feedback.
First of all, the TLDR: I love this game. I am having a blast with it. The wife had to tear me away from it multiple times over the holiday. It's definitely a "Sins quality game", a worthy successor to the original, a true sequel rather than just a facelift. There's still a ton that needs to be changed and lots and lots of content that hasn't been added yet; bear in mind that the below comments refer to an early alpha or pre-alpha.
Improvements in this version of the game over Sins 1:
1) Planetary motion
I didn't think much of this when it was mentioned in the previews, but I've been very pleasantly surprised at how much it changes up the gameplay and causes me to think along yet another strategic dimension. Planets I heavily build up and fortify as major nexuses may be useless an hour later, and vice versa. You can't just chokepoint everything through one starbase as you previously could. This is a massive, massive improvement to the gameplay. I also love how the moons work and that the planets and asteroids rotate, taking structures with them. Having objects constantly in motion adds yet another great strategic element to the game that forces you to think many steps ahead. This is terrific. And I like how (as far as I can tell) you can't see exactly where the future phase lanes will be, adding some randomness/fog of war to the proceedings.
2) Research system
Not that it's really new, but I feel like everything is exceptionally well integrated- I want this, so I need to get that, so I need that prerequisite- it doesn't feel like anything in the research tree is superfluous or can be skipped, and it seems very well linked together. I also like the new research tier system. It's functionally the same as the old required number of research stations, but I like this implementation better.
3) Planet/ship slot upgrade system
I love this. Fantastic improvement to the gameplay to have modular components. I wouldn't mind "moar stuff" and additional components, but the implementation is excellent.
4) Use of actual turrent pointing
This is great. And this isn't yet utilized to anywhere near its full potential, and it could be a real game changer.
5) Change in pirate mechanics
Pirates in Sins 1 were mostly a nuisnace, and an actual nuisance in the sense of not being much fun to deal with. The new pirate/minor faction system probably isn't 100% there yet, I need to think about it some more, but it's close, and I think it's perfectly fine as is.
6) Black market overhaul
Much better. In Sins 1 it was easy to just keep dumping crystal for credits (or whatever other combination you wanted) such that resources weren't much of an issue after the initial stages of the game: this system is much better. That being said, I do think the price needs to be more reactive to your market actions as it was in the first game.
7) Art, music
I'm neither much of an artist or musician, but I'm quite happy with the art direction, graphics, and sound.
8 ) Replacement of capital ship crew cap with exotics
I feel like this is a much better system. Before there was a somewhat artifical system to limit the number of capships - now it's more like "if you really want to spend that much, you can at your own risk", which I feel like is a more interesting option for the player.
9) Nerudas are much more useful
I never used diplomacy in Sins 1. The new Nerudas are much more interesting and useful in that they can spread culture (maybe they did this Sins 1, I hardly ever used them, but I don't think they did). I think this use of the envoy ships is much improved.
10) Stability
Quite excellent for such an early build. I only had one crash and it was sort of a fluke (trying to send some ships to meet up at a certain planet) - never happened again in dozens of hours of gameplay.
11) Moddability
I am convinced that the superb implemention of moddability on Sins 1 is one of the things that's kept it going so strong 15 years (!) later. There are very few strategy games, if any, that I can think of, that have this degree of longevity that aren't also highly moddable, so I'm extremely happy to see that it remains a key part of the roadmap for later. It's a core feature of a great, long-lived game in my view, and there are still incredibly talented teams putting together amazing mods for Sins 1 to this day.
12) Starbases
I like the new implementation of starbases a lot better. In Sins 1 they were definitely overpowered, especially since you could build them anywhere. Having them be more of a true gravity-well fixed structure nerfs them appropriately, and, combined with the moving planets, this means they're no longer unstoppable deathtraps that you can stack at choke points.
It's still early enough that I'd recommend it only to real Sins 1 diehards- but if that's you and you're on the fence, buy this game. You won't be disappointed.
Thanks for the great summary. I have it, but haven't put much time into it. Glad that they are making meaningful changes and additions.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 02, 2023, 12:37:17 PM
Thanks for the great summary. I have it, but haven't put much time into it. Glad that they are making meaningful changes and additions.
Ironically it looks like just a facelift, but it's not- there are some really excellent improvements to the gameplay mechanics.
Just one thng- good luck learning it. The documentation is currently nonexistent, including missing buttons and tooltips. Even the forum isn't of much help or is quickly outdated. But if you know Sins 1 you'll figure out most of it in a couple of hours.
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on January 02, 2023, 11:45:16 AM
OK, I've been able to put a good number of hours into the game over the holiday - not as much as I'd like to really think through the game mechanics deeply (that would be hundreds of hours), but at least a couple dozen- enough that I feel like I can give some high-level feedback.
First of all, the TLDR: I love this game. I am having a blast with it. The wife had to tear me away from it multiple times over the holiday. It's definitely a "Sins quality game", a worthy successor to the original, a true sequel rather than just a facelift. There's still a ton that needs to be changed and lots and lots of content that hasn't been added yet; bear in mind that the below comments refer to an early alpha or pre-alpha.
Improvements in this version of the game over Sins 1:
1) Planetary motion
I didn't think much of this when it was mentioned in the previews, but I've been very pleasantly surprised at how much it changes up the gameplay and causes me to think along yet another strategic dimension. Planets I heavily build up and fortify as major nexuses may be useless an hour later, and vice versa. You can't just chokepoint everything through one starbase as you previously could. This is a massive, massive improvement to the gameplay. I also love how the moons work and that the planets and asteroids rotate, taking structures with them. Having objects constantly in motion adds yet another great strategic element to the game that forces you to think many steps ahead. This is terrific. And I like how (as far as I can tell) you can't see exactly where the future phase lanes will be, adding some randomness/fog of war to the proceedings.
2) Research system
Not that it's really new, but I feel like everything is exceptionally well integrated- I want this, so I need to get that, so I need that prerequisite- it doesn't feel like anything in the research tree is superfluous or can be skipped, and it seems very well linked together. I also like the new research tier system. It's functionally the same as the old required number of research stations, but I like this implementation better.
3) Planet/ship slot upgrade system
I love this. Fantastic improvement to the gameplay to have modular components. I wouldn't mind "moar stuff" and additional components, but the implementation is excellent.
4) Use of actual turrent pointing
This is great. And this isn't yet utilized to anywhere near its full potential, and it could be a real game changer.
5) Change in pirate mechanics
Pirates in Sins 1 were mostly a nuisnace, and an actual nuisance in the sense of not being much fun to deal with. The new pirate/minor faction system probably isn't 100% there yet, I need to think about it some more, but it's close, and I think it's perfectly fine as is.
6) Black market overhaul
Much better. In Sins 1 it was easy to just keep dumping crystal for credits (or whatever other combination you wanted) such that resources weren't much of an issue after the initial stages of the game: this system is much better. That being said, I do think the price needs to be more reactive to your market actions as it was in the first game.
7) Art, music
I'm neither much of an artist or musician, but I'm quite happy with the art direction, graphics, and sound.
8 ) Replacement of capital ship crew cap with exotics
I feel like this is a much better system. Before there was a somewhat artifical system to limit the number of capships - now it's more like "if you really want to spend that much, you can at your own risk", which I feel like is a more interesting option for the player.
9) Nerudas are much more useful
I never used diplomacy in Sins 1. The new Nerudas are much more interesting and useful in that they can spread culture (maybe they did this Sins 1, I hardly ever used them, but I don't think they did). I think this use of the envoy ships is much improved.
10) Stability
Quite excellent for such an early build. I only had one crash and it was sort of a fluke (trying to send some ships to meet up at a certain planet) - never happened again in dozens of hours of gameplay.
11) Moddability
I am convinced that the superb implemention of moddability on Sins 1 is one of the things that's kept it going so strong 15 years (!) later. There are very few strategy games, if any, that I can think of, that have this degree of longevity that aren't also highly moddable, so I'm extremely happy to see that it remains a key part of the roadmap for later. It's a core feature of a great, long-lived game in my view, and there are still incredibly talented teams putting together amazing mods for Sins 1 to this day.
12) Starbases
I like the new implementation of starbases a lot better. In Sins 1 they were definitely overpowered, especially since you could build them anywhere. Having them be more of a true gravity-well fixed structure nerfs them appropriately, and, combined with the moving planets, this means they're no longer unstoppable deathtraps that you can stack at choke points.
It's still early enough that I'd recommend it only to real Sins 1 diehards- but if that's you and you're on the fence, buy this game. You won't be disappointed.
Really appreciate this write up Koloth. It was a great read.
A few questions.
1) Did I understand correctly that solar systems rotate or just that moons rotate planets?
2) Did I understand correctly that starbases orbit planets and thus will not be useful until they come around to meet the enemy ships in stationary rather than geocentric orbits?
3) Ships are affected by gravity and must use orbits to slingshot themselves? I assume that this would not be and that they somehow just defy gravity or are extemely inefficient with their power usage to fight gravity or planets and large bodies as they approach a planet?
4) Is their any point maintaining heliocentric positions?
5) With regard to the jumping between systems, does this look cheesy or are proper orbits of some kind being followed??
6) Research stations are still used right? I liked that system.
7) Research tree certainly does not seem more 4X that they said they wanted the game to be.
The cap ships needing rare ores sounds like stellaris but I really don't know if it will work in sins. I hated the capital ship crew requirements. But I do like crew requirements as a mechanic in general so it would be great if that was a thing. But incidental really. Oh and I did hope that their would be a battlecruiser class in between the capital class and the cruiser class from sins1
BTW did you play sins rebellion with all the DLC when you last plays sins1? Curious if you can compare it to the fully upgraded sins1. Which had a tonne of the 4x stuff they wanted to do, but for me was really not enough and generally felt cheesy.
You have my full attention. You make it sound really good.
I really want a stellaris with good combat and physics. Could sins2 be that game?
As a control, did you play Stellaris Koloth? What did you think of that?
Well I just missed out on the Epic coupon cutoff. So that does that for a while. :(
It makes more sense for me to wait out on this anyways.
I watched this video that is only a few weeks old and just not that impressed yet. Until all the placeholders and major features are in place it's going to be hard to tell where this is heading. There is so little information on what they are actually doing.
I am a little worried about the way battles seem like stellaris furballs especially for smaller ships. You should be able to control things like this or just go back to the old way of sin1 where ships just statically faced off against each other.
Multiplayer is to come shortly and I am worried about cross platform friend invites (steam/epic) but I think I will wait until next christmas now when this game is complete. None of my friends will commit to this because of Epic and this means if I get it I have to wait for a year in which case I may have burnt myself out on it.
Add to that we have homeworld3 this year. Among other RTS games like coh3.
Quote from: Destraex on January 03, 2023, 03:26:38 AM
Really appreciate this write up Koloth. It was a great read.
A few questions.
1) Did I understand correctly that solar systems rotate or just that moons rotate planets?
Both the entire system and individual bodies both rotate and revolve.
Quote2) Did I understand correctly that starbases orbit planets and thus will not be useful until they come around to meet the enemy ships in stationary rather than geocentric orbits?
No, you can still go between bodies at any time, but the usefulness and tactics will change depending on the bodies' relative solar system locations at the time.
Quote3) Ships are affected by gravity and must use orbits to slingshot themselves? I assume that this would not be and that they somehow just defy gravity or are extemely inefficient with their power usage to fight gravity or planets and large bodies as they approach a planet?
No, this isn't in the game.
Quote4) Is their any point maintaining heliocentric positions?
Not quite sure what you mean here. As in Sins 1 you have to be at a planet or asteroid, it's just that they're moving relative to the each other now.
Quote5) With regard to the jumping between systems, does this look cheesy or are proper orbits of some kind being followed??
They look like proper orbits. They're not (like all of Sins, the physics are "cartoonized"), but it's not like they're doing figure 8s or anything. They're circles/ellipses.
Quote6) Research stations are still used right? I liked that system.
Yes. The mechanics have changed a little (there's only one kind of research station now as opposed to both civilian and military) but it's fundamentally similar.
Quote from: Destraex on January 06, 2023, 08:06:02 AM
Well I just missed out on the Epic coupon cutoff. So that does that for a while. :(
It makes more sense for me to wait out on this anyways.
I watched this video that is only a few weeks old and just not that impressed yet. Until all the placeholders and major features are in place it's going to be hard to tell where this is heading. There is so little information on what they are actually doing.
I am a little worried about the way battles seem like stellaris furballs especially for smaller ships. You should be able to control things like this or just go back to the old way of sin1 where ships just statically faced off against each other.
Multiplayer is to come shortly and I am worried about cross platform friend invites (steam/epic) but I think I will wait until next christmas now when this game is complete. None of my friends will commit to this because of Epic and this means if I get it I have to wait for a year in which case I may have burnt myself out on it.
Add to that we have homeworld3 this year. Among other RTS games like coh3.
Well, up to you of course. You're missing out!
I liked SoaS and played it a lot. I still boot it occasionally. But, for some reason I always felt "restricted" or "limited". Maybe it was the map.
There are modded maps with literally thousands of planets if you need room...
I always feel limited in stellaris\sins because of the star lanes corraling me into the enemy defences.
I know that stellaris tried to do other kinds of jump techs but failed but I think it can be done.
I have been thinking about this lately and some of the things I came up with to mitigate jumping around defences to make things feel more space like would be:
* Add fuel consumption. Make outside of space lane jumps both use rare materials and expensive to do. This would both make the jumps rare and not with too many ships.
* Make off starlane jumps have randomness chance of ending up in the wrong location and leaving your fleet stranded until you can afford to jump them again hopefully closer to somewhere other than deep space
* Make off star lane jumps need to be mapped first by a special survey ship. Of course the idea here is that the enemy will see you do it and expect an attack in that area.
* There should be the potential out of system jumps to be hijacked and used in the opposite direction a little like counterbattery artillery finds enemy batteries and sends rounds back the other way.
* Off star lane jump flashes should have a chance of being detected by spies. Leaving you with an idea that enemy ships may be incoming. Of course this idea is probably the least likely to suspend disbelief unless factions are already known to each other and infiltrated through relations.
* Fleets should be helpless for a while after arriving from an out of starlane jump, leaving them vulnerable to response until the effect wears off.
* Only very special custom built expensive ships should be able to do these out of lane jumps and most of their hull should necessarily be taken up by the special warp drive leaving little room for weaponry.
* Range - Out of lane jumps should be very limited in range. Only allowing one space lane to be bypassed. Any more and your ships could end up anywhere at random in the galaxy.
You can see all of these ideas aim to limit the size of out of lane fleets along with the regularlity that these tactics are used.
P.S. CaptainKoloth do you need a stardock account to play sins2 atm?
P.S.2.
I would also love some stellaris features like the research randomiser and such... the tech tree in sins is too predicatable.
Interstellar Space: Genesis eschews warp lines. There are still some terrain effects: Different kinds of nebula either block travel altogether or slow it down.
This produces a milder form of bottleneck, but one that I find quite satisfying to play with, plan around, and adapt to (especially in the middle of a shooting war). While there is technology to reroute craft in the late game, even in the mid-game (with faster engines) it typically takes 2-4 turns to travel to a nearby star, so it's easy to get caught with your fleets in the wrong place.
This largely prevents the "stacks of doom" default strategy that I find to be the primary limiting factor in 4x space games that feature only travel by star lanes.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on January 11, 2023, 10:15:56 PM
Interstellar Space: Genesis eschews warp lines. There are still some terrain effects: Different kinds of nebula either block travel altogether or slow it down.
This produces a milder form of bottleneck, but one that I find quite satisfying to play with, plan around, and adapt to (especially in the middle of a shooting war). While there is technology to reroute craft in the late game, even in the mid-game (with faster engines) it typically takes 2-4 turns to travel to a nearby star, so it's easy to get caught with your fleets in the wrong place.
This largely prevents the "stacks of doom" default strategy that I find to be the primary limiting factor in 4x space games that feature only travel by star lanes.
That sounds great. Stack of doom works both ways as well. Defensive stack of doom is very real too.
The other way of fixing people going around your defences is to have every platform or planet inherently equipped with defences when they are designed with the knowledge that help will not always be close by. Or by having local defence fleets. You might even find that factions are for the most part not interested in doing more than capturing and not destroying anyways.
Some shots of me playing the game. Generally I try to keep them raw and unadulterated to give people an idea of exactly how the game looks. I like to show the strangest shots that include things like admin and crucial captions to give people clues as to what they would be in for. Although a few glory shots inveitably make it into the shots. Apologies, I forgot to caption the shots as I added them, which would have made them a little more interesting in terms of what I was trying to show. Wish I could load the screenshots in edit mode, but they only turn up as lines of code. Which makes finding the correct one to caption a chore.
I will leave the shots in their original resolution as I think most people will be running at my res or larger these days (EDIT: sweet, the new forum auto sizes screenshots anyway). Obviously sins2 although being slated for release late this year is in it's very early stages. Single player with one faction at the moment with a build that includes multiplayer support due to release soon.
Am enjoying the game so far. However gravity wells are too small and orbital facilitie models too large.
I like that you can upgrade the planet surface with buildings and mines and also like that capital ships can be customised with modules in addition to upgrading their normal skill based special abilities.
I like that you now have to discover markets instead of immediately having access to them and also that pirates now run their own auctions when they like and not constantly. It's also nice to be able to choose the target for that pirate raid at a time of your choosing.
The tech tree shuffles things around a bit and although more entertaining than the original tech tree it's only a very very slight improvement. I find it strange that orbital research platforms now offer 1 point in both military and civilian research. I would think military research would be classified and therefore an advantage to have it on a separate specialised sealed off facility like the original sins1 had.
The orbiting planets create some really nice gameplay situations including enemy planets ending up between your own planets forcing you to either wait for them to pass or forge a way through them to the other side. Of course this also means they are "ripe for the taking" as the pirates would say.
Most everything else in the game is the same as sins1. Their are a few QOL imrpovements like scout ships coming out with auto-explore pre-selected. But apart from that it's the same old.
Late game atm against the medium AI I played is a case of putting the game on 10x speed and simply jumping from planet to planet quickly until you win.
I am NOT a fan of the militia system which you can turn down (or up) a bit but acts as an automatic self defence fleet that rebuilds when lost and raids one jump away. Sometimes feeding the enemy so they can level up. I think as in sins1 DLC this is some kind of attempt to add life and automated defence to planets. But it ends up feeling annoying. Additionally it's a little hard for me to identify which ships I can control in the initial game start.
Unfortunately the game feels very formulaic at the moment. Sins1 felt the same I guess. Build tonnes of capital ships and starbases to win.
Another thing to consider is that while this game is on EPIC mods are going to be a real pain I would say unless their is some sort of in game mod workshop that is vetted by the team as mods are put into it.
Graphically I thinks sins1 looks better than sins2 without effects on planets or ships. But when sins2 is being lit up by weapons fire or lighting it looks better. Obviously the interface is very "cell shaded cartoon" looking compared to even sins1 which I thought looked very comic book back in the day compared to say homeworld. I don't mind but I still would prefer a more "real" look to things. However one caveat to this is that you can see a lot of things definitely are not finished graphically. So a long journey to enjoy as this games graphics and the rest develop.
From what I can see thus far their are two sins2 camps when it comes to the games development. Those that simply want a verbatim copy of sins1 with a better engine and those that actually want more than a facelift for sins2, those that want deeper and improved gameplay. I would lean towards the devs listening to their hardcore sins1 players who are still around, the "remnants" of a vast empire if you will. I am in the latter camp. I want more than sins1. Sins1 still works fine and if it comes to that the sins1 community can make a sins2 mod to make it like sins1.
Still really enjoying sins2. Eagerly awaiting the Vasari which are the next faction to be released.
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The Vasari are in the test build (which is public and usually takes two weeks to reach production)
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