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Ahsoka

Started by GDS_Starfury, April 07, 2023, 08:50:16 AM

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GDS_Starfury

not at all.  this is one of those cases where there is so much content now that its easier to just go from a to z to keep plots and stories coherent.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


SirAndrewD

Well, if there was any question at all that they were retconning the sequels out and not leading into them, tonight's Mandalorian decisively and definitively put that to rest.

 :emporerslightning:  :emporerslightning:  :emporerslightning:

At least some of the glaring questions about who, what and why the First Order even exists finally got expounded on.   
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

GDS_Starfury

kinda hard to retcon them out when Rey is confirmed to be doing another movie.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

JasonPratt

#49
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 12, 2023, 08:05:55 PMkinda hard to retcon them out when Rey is confirmed to be doing another movie.

KK has 'confirmed' a lot of things that never happened -- so much so that she was reprimanded by Iger (iirc) for repeatedly announcing projects to boost stock value when there weren't really actual plans in motion yet for doing them.

That being said, I fully acknowledge there seem to be more legs on this move, so far.

It could also be related to KK throwing a final Hail Mary with IJ5, which her involvement nearly ruined, and hoping it lands in the end-zone to cement her involvement in more Lucas-things going forward. Whatever the truth is behind the shifting delays and changes in the Dial of Destiny, including its marketing (such as it is), the current push does show bold confidence in its quality, including releasing it at Cannes many months before actual distribution. Boldly confident announcing of more Star Wars vaporfilms at the same time could be part of the same show-no-weakness hope. A new hope, one might say.

Jon Favreau being edged out would be part of that same show-confidence strategy. If IJ5 hits a home run (or near enough) KK's current plans can proceed (even if she retires with honors on the way, cementing her legacy going forward). If it flops, that Veil of the Force pattern behind the Ahsoka logo can be plot-activated, in which case it doesn't necessarily matter that Mando is setting up connections to the First Order: the retcon will be as complete as the new overseers decide it needs to be.

Regardless of whether JonFav or KK succeed in creative control going forward (or neither of them), I have no confidence in (live-action) product quality at this point. If it's great or even good, great; if not, that's only what I expect now, no disappointments anymore.  :buck2:
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JasonPratt

Quote from: SirAndrewD on April 12, 2023, 11:39:38 AMBut, to the point of Lucas being more anti-colonial than anti-capitalist, the important thing to note there is that Lucas was far more an admirer of the Viet-Minh than Viet-Cong.  He was less passionate about the socio-economic struggle of the great powers and more interested in Vietnam's struggle for independence against, both sides Communist and Capitalist over time. 

It's important to note in his mindset, if you're looking at fictional inspiration, that the Battle of Endor was inspired by Dien Bien Phu rather than any of the later events.

That's a fair qualification.  :peace:
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#51
Back to KK, keep in mind that up until now she has had a good grip on the trade magazines when it comes to supportive preliminary buzz for her announced projects. No less than three trades, however, pronounced scepticism about the Rey trilogy coming. On the business side of things, it's important to remember there is no preproduction yet, everything's still very much in flux, and these business mags aren't the Overlord Doomcock types who hate the drop in quality (blamed fairly or unfairly on social justice pandering -- although the point for most of such critics, Doomcock included, isn't the social justice messaging per se but the use of that material as insulation against criticizing a drop in quality, which happens to correlate with the increase of overt messaging for whatever reasons or coincidences.)

Those trades by the way are The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, and Matthew Bellamy (I might have his name slightly wrong) who left the Reporter to start his own trade. Bellamy's trade is new, but he's highly connected, and the other two are the top trades in the US. If Bellamy says earlier this week those projects aren't greenlit, then at that time those projects weren't greenlit, and Variety today (or yesterday) basically still concurs. Moreover, at the level of high-source announcements, the trades are more-or-less company propaganda promotion: if they're being sceptical and cautioning about not getting expectations up yet, that probably means Iger told them to say so or at least gave permission.

KK's announcement of the new trilogy and related projects, like another push for Acolytes, fits very much into her prior struggles with pushback from higher management over their perceived failure of the brand. Iger himself sends a lot of mixed messages -- most recently his infamous live-shareholder call reports -- but he fired Victoria Alonzo over her reportedly sketchy financial behavior, which she has (perhaps conveniently) reframed as punishment for her insistence on fighting Florida over social issues and refusing to support Iger negotiating with Florida. The more important point is that, regardless for why he kicked her out, she was regarded as invulnerable within the Disney system thanks to her unimpeachable intersectional hierarchy (for which she predictably launched ripostes with various lawsuit threats that Iger fired her because he's various ista-phobe flavors.) If Iger was willing to bite the bullet on kicking her to the curb, that's a signal that KK's final chance has arrived to repair brand damage to Lucasfilm property and its consequential financial damage; because if Alonzo can go, Kennedy is definitely vulnerable. It's in this context that KK defied Iger's remonstrations about announcing phantom projects, and started pushing The Acolyte again along with a suddenly announced Rey-centered trilogy. As long as they look like they still might be made, she has at least a little more protection from being moved along from creative control over Lucasfilm. And if she rolls a hard eight betting on IJ5, then she gets to stay for another five-years-plus; and plans will be in place, or look like they're in place, for her to go forward with. (Though as with her other phantom plans, she can always jettison them for various reasons in favor of other plans; which to be fair is usually normal studio procedure, but she has a weird track record on this so far: even her released products don't tend to go home with whoever brought them!)

Again, Iger says publicly (during that shareholder meeting) they're going to be very careful about how many Star Wars projects they'll be doing for the foreseeable future; and suddenly, out of the blue, Kennedy announces the Acolyte project will continue and a new Rey trilogy (with Daisy brought out for the announcement) at the public festival. One of the reasons the trades were skeptical about this, is that their sources indicated this announcement was such a closely guarded secret that only a few people around Kennedy knew about it. That means there were no plans first and then a public announcement. As usual for KK, it's an announcement of intention first, and then plans are made later, maybe.

There's a lot of infighting going on at Disney right now over the various houses of cards collapsing, and those collapses aren't simply whiny internet commentators whose feelings feel hurt by the products (at least in live action) since TFA. The market broadly is leaving Disney-related products, including Marvel and Lucasfilm, and there's an unavoidable power struggle at Disney over whose fault that is, why, and what should or even can be done about it.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#52
The infighting at Disney has reached some seriously schizophrenic levels this week. On one hand, Kennedy is busy promoting The Acolyte series and its spin-off Skeleton Crew, telling her audience that she doesn't need fans of Lucas' Star Wars, she just wants to do her own thing and she's never making a Lucas-style Star Wars product again, she's done with that. (This isn't subtext, btw, this is text.) This is despite her looming disaster with the Dial of Destiny which she had sent to Cannes as a confidence move but which has returned some seriously dire sounding reviews even from access media types -- she's even setting up her own production company in case she leaves Lucasfilm, and in case no one else wants to hire her (with industry buzz being that other studios regard her as poison now). She has supposedly brought on board some people jumping ship from Marvel Studios.

On the other hand, Filoni -- whose alliance with Kennedy has driven off Favreau at last -- has launched a plan to do a reboot sequel trilogy making an adaptation of Heir to the Empire, for which he has brought on board a star-studded creative-effort crew up to and including Lucas himself, using the Ahsoka series as well as Kenobi Season 2 (maybe also Mando Season 4 and Andor Season 2) as his setup. This sounds a lot like the Veil of the Force plot which has been rumored for a while.

I don't even know anymore. Is it possible that Lucasfilm will keep two distinct continuities going, even if one side overtly distances itself from Lucas material? Could work, by doing deep prequel stories, except that Kennedy has a habit of announcing projects which don't happen or which ripcord off very differently than what was sold at a huge expense. On the other hand, is Filoni just wishful thinking, or fan-pandering for a bait and switch? Ahsoka is VERY MUCH his baby, and the first thing in production that (reportedly) Kennedy had no hand in at all, so it isn't impossible that he has crazy-big plans for it going back to Lucas-root focus. Which in itself isn't necessarily a good thing (e.g. the prequel trilogy and George's own increasingly crazy sequel plans, though by now the prequels have done well in fan re-evaluations over the generation since release.) True, Lucas signed off on Zahn's Thrawn trilogy as the official sequel plot for a long time, but he had little to no creative input on it, and supposedly (that word gets a lot of qualifier application!) he's going to be brought back in for creative input if not control -- and yet Heir to the Empire, a kickoff to a sequel storyline Lucas had practically nothing to do with creatively, is supposedly coming now.

Oh and also for their 10 year anniversary, the current sequel trilogy will be re-released with re-edits, new filmed scenes, new scene sequencing, deleted scenes installed, new effects....

 :buck2:

I really just want things to settle down into stable quality stories and production.

Mike Zeroh has been collecting recent news about both sides of Lucasfilm's Star Wars plotting on his channel over the past few days. He's a moderate fan who likes portions of the Disney SW material and sees potential for it while also acknowledging its problems.

Reminder: this isn't fan speculation, it's based on actual comments by the producers and creators recently, BUT neither are these things (mostly) set to go.

I'm going to try to sort Zeroh's news recaps over the past 5 days in the next post. Patience while I edit, please.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#53
Accidentally closed some tabs before I could post them; and I'm resorting in chronological order. As new news gets released over the past 5 days, Zeroh will talk about it and naturally some things get re-covered again and again for context. The whole thing is very confusing as to what's really happening, what various creators wish would happen, and who is even still involved: I started this thinking JonFav was gone, and by the time I finished editing the sequence apparently (!) I was wrong and he's re-investing in his Star Wars projects with (apparent!) treacherous enemy Filoni, or maybe he's leaving but on really good terms with his plans in good hands going forward......

oy. Have fun parsing through two hours of news. And somewhat clickbaity titles.  :buck2:




















ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Sir Slash

I think they should do a re-make of, "Thunderdome". And all get in it. And stay there.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

JasonPratt

And get new scenes with recently-passed Tina Turner, using CGI facework.  :ThumbsUp:
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#56
In case anyone cares what Overlord Doomcock and his sources (and Kamran Pasha's sources) rumor about what's going on recently, here's some discussion between them on Filoni's Heir to the Empire project:


Keeping in mind Doomcock has been VERY increasingly hostile to the (live-action) Disney projects, aside from Andor to some degree, and Mando Seasons 1 and 2 which he initially loved but has come to see increasing problems with over the years (but still holds as the gold standard for the current work, such as it is).

He is full of grave suspicion over Filoni's plans and intentions, although logically it makes sense that an Heir film, even though an adaptation of the first Thrawn Trilogy novel, would need to be replotted significantly in order to fit prior work including the sequel trilogy. That said he is MUCH more hostile toward Filoni than for example Zeroh. Or Pasha for that matter, who regards Filoni's moves as company politics necessary to survive and get things done, but whose own sources report that Filoni and Fav are on good working and creative terms behind the scenes.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

GDS_Starfury

Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


JasonPratt

#58
Bro's birthday will be on the 22nd. He and I will both be ready: I'm hearing a lot of good buzz about Ahsoka!

Zeroh has some news about Ahsoka Season Two plans.

ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Mike Zeroh pulls together more plans of Filoni and (to a lesser extent) JonFav to retcon Eps 7-9 with special edition releases in 2025, 27, and 29 (for their 10 year anniversaries).


That Veil pattern is DEFINITELY part of Ahsoka's title card, so it's going to be used for changing things; however, the current plan is not to retcon the sequel trilogy out of existence but to effectively work up to the sequel trilogy in a much better way (including an intraquel film trilogy borrowing as much of the Thrawn trilogy plotline as possible under the circumstances, becoming the back lore for the 'official' trilogy).

There is a massive fix-fic plan coming, in other words, which Kennedy has nothing to do with, but which will rehabilitate and save her own sequel trilogy as much as possible. The Ahsoka Season One starting in late August kicks this off.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!