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Digital Gaming => Ally/Opponent Finder => Dominions III LFG and Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: al_infierno on May 06, 2020, 07:42:37 PM

Title: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: al_infierno on May 06, 2020, 07:42:37 PM
Game page on llamaserver:  http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Grogsgame


Figured we should get a new thread rolling for the new game.   The game's still open to anyone who wants to join.  I think we're leaning towards Middle Ages, but haven't decided on map size or # of thrones.

Here's the list of confirmed combatants so far:

Solops - Agartha
Ajidica - Mictlan
TheMeInTeam - Eriu
W8taminute - Uruk
al_infierno - C'Tis
Myrmidon - Sceleria


My faction choice will be C'Tis regardless of era.  I'll let the other players post with their choices.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 06, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
Agartha - noble, inoffensive, peaceful one-Eyed folk who channel the love of Mairon the Admirable.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 08, 2020, 10:49:36 AM
Didn't realize a new thread had been started.

For nation, I'm good with MA as that is what I have been practicing but I'll list my full picks here.

EA: Lanka
MA: Mictlan
LA: Man

As far as map goes, I'm good keeping it as Biddyn. The map has 81 land provinces, which with 5 players gives us all 16 provinces each (not counting water), and includes additional cave provinces for Solops/Agartha. I'm also down to play another map, but I've had terrible luck finding midsize maps on llamaserver as for us to use them they have to be both uploaded there and have a download link for us.

As far as thrones, I think the 6 thrones, 5 points to win with 4 level 1 thrones and 2 level 2 thrones has worked well; but I wasn't part of last game's throne rush so I don't know how well it worked out for those participating in it!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 08, 2020, 12:16:12 PM
Please count me in!  I'd like a stab at Ermor if it's available.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 08, 2020, 12:24:27 PM
MA vs EA Ermor are a LITTLE different from each other, so you might want to clarify that pick :).

I might as well just pick TNN or Eriu since I've been playing them a lot.  I'm not exactly ready with prep on them, but if we're starting soon I'll grind out some practice.

Quote
As far as thrones, I think the 6 thrones, 5 points to win with 4 level 1 thrones and 2 level 2 thrones has worked well; but I wasn't part of last game's throne rush so I don't know how well it worked out for those participating in it!

Solops was *very* close to winning by claiming the throne near your capital.  After I repelled that I was mistaken as to which throne was the two point throne, so the game didn't end in a throne rush but rather the others going AI after W8aminute was down to one besieged non-cap province and my economy/research got too far ahead to counter.

If we add more players we might want to increase throne count to compensate.  We're not doing something like those 12-20 player games where this would make actually winning/doing throne rushes onerous with more, and it's nice to have techs after the 5-7 range matter.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 08, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Most of my experience is playing EA Ermor, but I love the idea of playing the undead version of it in MA, so I'm happy to do my Due Diligence and give it a go!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 08, 2020, 02:18:28 PM
Most of my experience is playing EA Ermor, but I love the idea of playing the undead version of it in MA, so I'm happy to do my Due Diligence and give it a go!

If you want to play the "undead version" of Ermor in MA, I'd actually recommend picking Sceleria.  You'd have access to both mainline human troop and hero production, while also having good access to Death magic.  It's your call either way, but MA Ermor might not be a great option for online play if you don't know exactly what you're doing with them.

Adding people's picks to the original post - looks like we're leaning towards MA so I'll just add those picks to the main post.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 08, 2020, 02:43:56 PM
Great to have a new player!

MA Ermor plays very differently from EA Ermor as it is a very cancerous nation due to it being a freespawn nation whose dominion kills population. We're in no rush to start so why not try out other MA nations? MA has a lot of nations that can communion like EA Ermor or break out high level death magic like EA Ermor.
If you want to play MA Ermor, be aware that it generally paints a massive target on your back.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 08, 2020, 02:46:15 PM
In terms of lore, Ermor splits after its catastrophe and Sceleria is one of its offshoots.  Unit-wise, you will feel more familiar with them than MA Ermor.  Both are very strong nations centered around oppressive masses of undead and death magic ultimately.

MA Ermor, unlike Sceleria, is also a popkill nation and tends to attract the wrong kinds of attention as a result.  Sceleria, Ermor, and Pangaea are all comfortably top 5 nations for MA.  Agartha and Ulm are up there but lots of nations are similar to those two.

With Ctis also in the game already and either Ermor or Sceleria we're going to be seeing more skeletons than last game.  A lot more.

Edit:

Nobody has yet, but don't pick a water nation if we're playing on Biddyn.  It breaks the map and places water nation capital ~ 2 provinces from multiple other capitals.  Amphibious nations like Agartha/Shinuyama/Xibalba should be fine like last time since the game still gives them land capitals. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 08, 2020, 03:50:48 PM
So good to see all of this interest as well as new faces joining in.  I'm thinking about taking MA Uruk for this game.  Need to mess around with them a bit more before I say for sure.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 08, 2020, 04:43:33 PM
Good thoughts from everyone.  Based on some of the guides I read about them, It sounds like a reasonable call to play another nation.  As fascinating as they seem to be (fired up a SP game with them), my relative inexperience in multiplayer Dominions and the fact they draw the ire of everyone around them might make them a choice for another round.  I'll do some more reading and pick another nation. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 08, 2020, 06:38:18 PM
This last game was my second MP game. I also indicated an interest in MA Ermor in the pre-game discussions. Adjidica talked me out of it, saying basically that Ermor was a people killing machine that the other players would eradicate before it's cancerous spread became fatal. I played a game against it and three other standard AIs. I now understand why he said that. The game needs a population migration dynamic based on Dominion to balance things out and allow the repopulation of barren provinces. Even that might not be enough.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 08, 2020, 06:43:40 PM
We are up to 6 players. I messaged Yskonyn, so he might make 7!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 08, 2020, 09:57:47 PM
I'll gladly edit my post if anyone wants to change their pick, by the way.  Don't think you're locked in just because it says your nation in bold next to your username in the first post.  O0
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 08, 2020, 11:18:34 PM
Just to clarify, if one of you guys want to play MA Ermor, feel free to do so. They are a blast in single player, but I just want to make sure people know what they might be getting into running the nation in MP.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Yskonyn on May 09, 2020, 02:54:12 PM
Thanks for the heads up Solops!
However I am still busy with the Civ6, FoG Empires and Battletech games.
Cannot commit to Dom 5.
Will gladly join after one of these games is done, though.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 09, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
OK, slap me down for MA Sceleria.

Thanks to everyone for the input. Now it’s time to get some practice in with some Pretender builds!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 09, 2020, 04:22:48 PM
Begun, the skellington war has.   :knuppel2:

BTW, if you're relatively new to Dom 5 like myself, take a look at this guide - it'll help give you ideas for how to build your pretender.  https://gameplay.tips/guides/6661-dominions-5.html
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 09:12:18 AM
OK, we have six players, possibly seven (someone said they had a friend?). I think we need a bigger map. Biddyn is going to be very crowded with six. I am not a fan of rush type games. And it would require a really different type of pretender. How do we get a bigger map? I have no clue. Peliwyr? Gamble on a random map? I'll look around for something. I suggest we all do. The Llamaserver game set-up has a lot of choices like Twittermap and Low_Diplo9 that might do. But not many of them are downloadable.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
I have been playing around with one of the third party map makers. In some ways it is inferior to the one included in the game, but it can guarantee no horrible starting positions. I would need to know two things: about how many provinces per player we collectively want and what, if any, special starting conditions a nation should have, i.e. Agartha needs a cave. I prefer 20+ provinces per player. Some people like more. Many like less. I can make a map, post the pic here and see what you all think. It may work out. It may not. Too bad some of us are not hard-core modders.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 11, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
That sounds like a good idea to me.  I generally do at least 15-20 provinces per player, and I don't think C'Tis has any special needs for their start.  (Lore-wise, they usually start in a swamp, but I don't think it's necessary for their capital recruitment etc.)

Feel free to post some maps here.  When I'm done with work, I'll try out some of the third-party map generators as well.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 11:27:27 AM
Here is a quick, down and dirty sample. The disadvantage is that everyone will see the starting locations of nations and thrones. That is one big advantage the Dom5 map generator has. It does rivers better, too.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 11:43:22 AM
I just saw a cool map on the Steam Workshop called Dragon Pass 2 that might do. I am giving it a trial run.
Later - very nice looking, but I find it difficult to orient myself. There are no borders drawn.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 11, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Dragon Pass does look cool, but very confusing.  Maybe I could get used to playing without borders, but eh...

I like the look of that map you posted.  I assume it wraps around both ways (East+West, North+South)?  Personally I'm not miffed about having the starting zones/thrones revealed, since we don't necessarily know who will start where (with the exception of Agartha and C'Tis of course)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
I think we can do better than the sample I posted. Everyone needs to get their requirements and recommendations in. There may be a Better Idea out there.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 11, 2020, 07:48:43 PM
Thanks for putting in the work solops!
As far as maps goes, my thoughts are:

1. I would make sure you know how to upload it into Llamaserver before putting a lot of work into it. I know W8taminute and I in our 1v1 games found that a stumbling block.
2. If we are up to 6 players, I believe the other map that ships with the game works for that number. (Peliwyr, I think). Already comes with caves and generally balanced start positions. Easier than
3. I would prefer to keep provinces per player in the 15-20 range. I prefer slightly smaller and faster games that gets into fighting other players, as opposed to fighting independents for a long period of time. 15-20 also ensures that a single bad expansion won't screw you, as the difference between 12 and 15 provinces is not as big as the difference between 7 and 10.  At the same time, it keeps things moving fast.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 11, 2020, 07:52:29 PM
I'm a sucker for a gorgeous map, and man, the Dragon Pass map looks incredible.  I'd go for that in a heartbeat, but it doesn't appear to wrap-around at all, so I could understand if that was a concern.

Peliwyr is an ideal multiplayer map at 129 provinces, and full wraparound.

My vote would be Dragon Pass for looks, Peliwyr for practicality.  I'm up for a generated map if that's what everyone wants.

Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 08:15:57 PM
I can go for Peliwyr. I am going to try to learn the map generators and editors. This situation is bound to come up again. And I would still like to know what special starting terrain is needed for each of your races, even if we use Peliwyr. I think making a library of such data will be useful over time.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 11, 2020, 08:32:39 PM
All that information is contained within the game modfiles.
http://www.illwinter.com/dom5/modmanual.html#name-era-general
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 11, 2020, 08:56:45 PM
All that information is contained within the game modfiles.
http://www.illwinter.com/dom5/modmanual.html#name-era-general

Oh!  Errr....ummmm....(shuffle)....I obviously have a lot to learn
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Yskonyn on May 12, 2020, 12:55:17 AM
So, what is the counter argument to not just using Dom’s random map system and be done with it?  ???
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 12, 2020, 04:48:54 AM
So, what is the counter argument to not just using Dom’s random map system and be done with it?  ???

It can create very unbalanced surroundings regarding income/resources, or stick land-heavy nations on peninsulas.  If you don't wrap both directions, it can even lock a land nation to 4 provinces until they can go underwater.  Even if we get rid of the water (which isn't ideal since it cuts into some nations' advantages like Agartha/Sceleria) it also virtually never generates caves, so nations like Agartha/Xibalba can consider their cave units to be cap-only.

This is enough to actually skew the game's balance between nations.  Built-in amphibious and/or river crossing becomes a big advantage.  Popkill crap becomes more attractive since they're less punished by bad land.  One might also be more inclined to pick amphibious expander chassis for pretenders.

That said, while Biddyn is a bit small (sub-15 provinces per player, even counting water), 129 provinces is rough in the other direction.  >20 provinces per player means a single mis-step by someone will let someone expanding well hit 25-30 provinces before year 2 ends, with the distance great enough that agency over who gets to capitalize on this is limited.  This actually happened last game on Biddyn, since we only had 4 players and it served to effect diplomacy and war timing pretty drastically.  Ajidica and I capitalized on an early pretender god loss in expansion phase and got so many provinces that one of us had to die.  Fortunately for me, it was him!  But this isn't a great scenario to do repeatedly in MP.

I'd be okay with that symmetical/mirrored map wrapping N/S.

If llamaserver is a struggle, we could try the clockwork bot people are using on Discord also.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 12, 2020, 07:16:23 AM
There is an argument to be made the it is diplomatically advantageous NOT to take everything you possibly can in the early game. How much can you grab without triggering a response, THAT is the question. That is not a problem I have ever had :)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 12, 2020, 10:50:03 AM
There's some metagaming sure, but generally it's a problem if someone has land as if they conquered someone...before actually conquering someone.  It's still playable, but IMO we should at least try to avoid picking initial settings where it's likely to happen.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 13, 2020, 12:35:57 PM
I think I found a nation I want to try in this game.  Not sure if they're limited to MA but I would like to pick Uruk as my nation.

As for maps, I think Llamaserver has a lot of 6-7 player maps we could use.  I'll look into it later tonight.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 14, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
I looked through some of the nations for this game. Lots of skeletons. Scary. Agartha must hide in our cave and keep our eye on the entrance.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 14, 2020, 02:25:37 PM
Skeley spam is soothing to the soul.   ;D
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 14, 2020, 04:30:27 PM
I looked through some of the nations for this game. Lots of skeletons. Scary. Agartha must hide in our cave and keep our eye on the entrance.

You say this as if Agartha can't also be cranking skeletons by late game using native path access if desired :p.

Uruk and Mictlan are pretty astral heavy. 

I have tough choices for pretender design, but it should be interesting.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 14, 2020, 05:08:51 PM
I looked through some of the nations for this game. Lots of skeletons. Scary. Agartha must hide in our cave and keep our eye on the entrance.

You say this as if Agartha can't also be cranking skeletons by late game using native path access if desired :p.


Who? Me??? Nooooo....skellingtons are waaay too scary.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 16, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
Any follow up thoughts on map choice?  I've been messing around on Peliwyr and it seems good for our purposes, imo.  I'm open to trying a Llamaserver map.

Also, I think I've got llamaserver figured out enough that I can set up the game myself, but I might delegate that to a more experienced player :)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 16, 2020, 07:57:10 PM
Peliwyr is OK unless someone comes up with something better. Most of the custom maps I made for 6 were in the 120-140 province range.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 17, 2020, 01:55:46 PM
I'm good with Peliwyr.  I'd not be the wisest choice for a host either, as I'm a relative newb.   If someone could design a server system for Dominions 5 ala Slitherine's Field of Glory 2 setup, that would be epic.

On another note, a pretty interesting new map submitted here.  Not balanced out enough yet for MP, but it's got some nice potential, and it's beautiful to play on. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dominions5/comments/gl1dtq/mystical_lands_map/

Sorry, couldn't figure out the hyperlink function... ???
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 18, 2020, 12:41:10 PM
Peliwyr it is then unless someone wants something else.  I did look over llamaserver over the weekend to see if there were any good maps for a 6 player game but nothing really caught my eye. 

If everyone is in agreement with Peliwyr let me know and I'll setup the game.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 18, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
Sounds good to me.   O0

I saw that Warlock: Master of the Arcane map on reddit the other day.  It does look quite nice, though I typically prefer wraparound maps.  I'll definitely be giving it a spin in SP.

Out of curiosity, is anyone here familiar with Dominions Enhanced 1.65?  My impression is that we're all primarily Vanilla players, so I'm not suggesting we switch it up at the last second.  But a buddy showed me this mod recently.  It adds lots of neat new pretenders, nations, and items to the game, plus a load of balance changes that makes some of the crappier items and pretender chassis more viable.  The quality varies (as with any mod) but it's quite worth checking out, though feels like I'm practically relearning the game given the amount of new content.  Curious to hear thoughts from anyone who's sunk a number of hours into the mod.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 18, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Interesting, I've not heard of that mod.  Sounds intriguing.  I'll have to check it out.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 18, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Everything sounds good to me, looking forward to starting soon!

As far as mods go, the only mods I've played with were Lucid's Thematic Gem Generator mod to reduce micromanagement and Better Heroes. However, I've largely stopped using them as W8taminute and I weren't using them in our 1v1 games, so I turned off the mods for that and never turned them back on.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 19, 2020, 09:13:13 AM
I have never tried a mod, though I am interested in some. I figure I need learn how to play the base game first. What kind of mods are out there?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 19, 2020, 09:34:32 AM
I wouldn't be against gemgen but it's probably simplest to just roll with vanilla.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Yskonyn on May 19, 2020, 03:33:00 PM
I would be hesitant with using any ‘balance mods’ for now, considering the relatively newbieness of many chaps with the game. These mods often cater to ‘the meta’ and try to ‘fix’ issues that experienced players might run into.
They can have a pretty big effect on gameplay and often require players to know what the options are in playing a nation, which tactics work, which weaknesses a nation might have, etc.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 19, 2020, 03:46:51 PM
To be clear I'm 100% in favor if playing this game Vanilla and wasn't suggesting we change that.  I was just wondering if anyone had thoughts about the mods in general.

What I really like about Dom Enhanced 1.65 is the balance changes to how much items cost.  Some of the vanilla items that are absolute trash (like the t1 enchanted sword) are actually sorta viable because they cost 1 gem or 2 gems instead of 5, for example.  I actually like this aspect of the mod more than the new pretenders and items, some of which are ridiculously powerful.  I might start a separate thread for trying out this mod if there's interest.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 19, 2020, 03:58:44 PM
How do these options look?  Any suggested changes?  Throne situation looks OK?  (You can't see the map selection but it's Peliwyr...)

(https://i.imgur.com/DzNmpRp.jpg)

I added a few thrones and bumped up the point requirement a bit.  Maybe go with 9 points to win instead of 8?  Should we maybe balance it out with more Tier 2 thrones and fewer Tier 1s?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: W8taminute on May 19, 2020, 05:14:07 PM
I think those settings look good.  I would bump up the independents strength to 6 though.  That is the setting we've been using in all our games so far and it seems to be reasonable.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 19, 2020, 05:27:18 PM
O0

Bumped up indie strength to 6.  I'll give the others in this thread a chance to chime in before I launch the server.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Ajidica on May 19, 2020, 05:43:26 PM
It all looks good! Thanks for setting it up.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: solops on May 19, 2020, 08:08:39 PM
Indie to six, yes. Never messed with artifact forging limit. Does it matter?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 19, 2020, 09:18:57 PM
Artifacts are just the level 8 stuff right?  Won't matter in normal games, people rarely pursue that tech as first 1-2 level 8 options.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 19, 2020, 11:03:14 PM
OK, the server is set up.  For those who know llamaserver, I tried to keep the game name simple:  Grogsgame

Here's the steps for the unfamiliar:

1. In the main menu, go to Tools and Manuals and create your pretender (Middle Ages).
2. On the Tools... screen, click Open User Data Directory
3. Navigate down to savedgames > newlords, find your pretender file (by date is probably easiest), and attach it in an email to turns@llamaserver.net with the subject Grogsgame
4. Before your first turn, create a folder in savegames called Grogsgame
5. When the game starts, and every turn thereafter, you will get an email with a .trn file. Download the .trn file to the folder you just made.
6. After you end your turn, email the .2h file to the same email with the same subject.


If I get knocked out of the game early I'll pass on the admin pw to someone.  We can see the status of the game here: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Grogsgame
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: al_infierno on May 19, 2020, 11:45:20 PM
Oh, quick correction on the server settings:  I changed "Score Graphs" to "Off" instead of "No info on other nations."  The intent was to hide scoregraphs from other players, not to hide the list of factions altogether, which renders certain spy actions useless.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Yskonyn on May 20, 2020, 12:08:33 AM
Have fun, chaps!
Next game I might able to join in again.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (OPEN)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 20, 2020, 07:29:31 AM
Pretender submitted. 

Thanks for getting everything set up!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (STARTING)
Post by: al_infierno on May 20, 2020, 04:42:40 PM
Everyone's in now except Uruk.  Guess we'll w8 a minute.  ;D
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (STARTING)
Post by: Ajidica on May 20, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
Its Tough to be a God (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSXijk37oNs), the God of Mictlan, looks forward to you all making his life less tough by recognizing His Greatness and preemptively surrendering to the Glorious Nation of Mictlan.

EDIT: Also, because diplomacy using in-game messages is awkward at best, feel free to message me on Steam for diplo. Same username and avatar.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (STARTING)
Post by: W8taminute on May 20, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Everyone's in now except Uruk.  Guess we'll w8 a minute.  ;D

And a minute is all you have to w8 for!   ;D

Pretender submitted.  Thanks for setting this up al_infierno.  This should be fun.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on May 20, 2020, 07:17:03 PM
Hit dat start button and put in my first turn.  O0

Let the best groghead win!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on May 22, 2020, 02:27:54 PM
FYI, it occurred to me that I can change the turn interval.  I increased the time limit from 24 hours to 72 hours to give everyone a bit more breathing room.  O0
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on May 22, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Yeah.  We should mostly shoot for ~turn a day where possible, but it's better if someone needs a little more time to not stale them.  The implications on the game can be pretty significant.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on May 22, 2020, 03:20:44 PM
Sounds good. Hopefully we can keep up the 2 turns/day for the early stage of the game.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on May 25, 2020, 07:12:52 AM
Sorry guys.. last turn was in my Spam folder for some reason. >:(

I kept waiting and waiting for the next turn last night.  Saw everyone online and was thinking, hmmm... wonder what's up.  When I checked this morning I saw I was the only hold up..... :crazy2:
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 02, 2020, 01:33:01 PM
New patch rolled out today, including a new EA nation!

Anyone know if this patch will have an impact on our ongoing game?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 03, 2020, 01:06:50 PM
I do not believe it or the subsequent hotfix will matter to us.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 03, 2020, 01:07:41 PM
Yeah, so far so good.  O0
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2020, 08:56:35 AM
Yup, I had no issues last night running our PBEM.   :)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 05, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
Friday PM - Gents, sorry for my tardiness. I will get this turn in tonight, but I will be slow until Sunday PM. My wife unexpectedly scheduled a mini-family reunion this weekend and I will have a house full of relatives this weekend. I should be able to sneak off and keep things rolling at a slow pace, at least.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 05, 2020, 03:27:33 PM
No worries, take your time and let me know if you need me to extend the turn timer.  I'd rather do that than have anyone miss a turn.  O0
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 05, 2020, 07:29:58 PM
With that last turn, my pretender died unsuccessfully defending my capital, so I'm effectively knocked out of the game.  I've handed off the admin PW to w8 - good luck to the survivors who'll be fighting over scraps of my corpse  :notworthy:
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 05, 2020, 07:38:15 PM
Although our two nations never met formally on the field the peoples of Uruk are saddened by this news.  Although picking up table scraps is not bad. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 07, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
I sent my turn in, but the server has not acknowledged it. No one else registers as having submitted a turn either.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 07, 2020, 08:41:59 PM
I wonder if there's a hiccup due to C'tis turning over to AI.  Maybe it would help to use the "Force hosting now" admin option?  I'll leave the decision in w8's hands as it's no longer my game.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 07, 2020, 08:52:35 PM
I have also submitted a turn, so this isn't an issue limited to Solops.  Probably either something with the handoff or just a llamaserver issue.

Edit: other games on llamaserver appear to have recent 2h files received, so it's probably us.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 08, 2020, 12:57:50 PM
This morning I woke up to see that my email inbox has 8 messages from llamaserver all of them saying that my turn 39 file has been received and it seems fine.  Something is not right I think with llamaserver but when I return home tonight I'll check the admin options in our game setup to make sure nothing funky happened there.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 08, 2020, 12:59:36 PM
As of right now game status says only Mictlan hasn't submitted a 2h file.  Hopefully that's true and he just hasn't, rather than more weirdness.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on June 08, 2020, 07:12:09 PM
Turn just submitted and got response email saying new turn being processed. Sorry for late submission!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 08, 2020, 10:16:08 PM
No worries about that, was just concerned about the 8x "your turn was received" after not accepting our submission for quite some time.  Hope we're back on track now, although it seems my Gmail is down so I can't actually download the new turn file yet...
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on June 20, 2020, 07:15:41 PM
Sorry about the slow turn submission this week guys. Work was super-busy and I've been more than a little preoccupied with everyone ending their NAP with me at the same time!
Hope to be more regular is my submissions.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 20, 2020, 09:53:45 PM
Tomorrow, Sunday, I leaving on a road trip until next weekend. I am taking my laptop and should be able to keep up turns.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 21, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
Guys, my laptop overheated and had a meltdown. I may not be able to get it started again. If so, I cannot do turns until next Saturday +/-. Please watch this thread as it is my only way to communicate (via Kindle).
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 21, 2020, 08:31:30 PM
OK, this is looking real bad. It won't start. I changed out the CMOS battery, the main battery and the power supply, trying different combinations of the above. I did re-sets, holding down the power button with and without the battery and power supply installed, etc. No joy. Not looking good. This old 2013 Alienware M17X R4 I bought in late 2013 (?) may have finally croaked.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2020, 10:28:40 PM
It's unfortunate...if you can't use other machines I'd obviously advocate extending the advancement time until you're situated again.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on June 21, 2020, 10:51:35 PM
I went ahead and extended the turn timer to 9999 hours, since I'm pretty sure w8aminute would prefer to wait a minute than have solops miss a turn :P

Lemme know if you guys want me to change it back to 72 once solops is home, otherwise I'll leave it as is unless w8 wants to change it again.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 22, 2020, 12:08:14 AM
My wife thinks this is a father's day plot to get a new laptop. My son thinks it's great fun. He has spent several hours now shopping for a new laptop for me.

And thanks for setting up the delay. If I can get it running while on the road, I'll be shocked. The turns now are really important.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 22, 2020, 06:45:28 AM
It sounds like you're due for a new computer solops.  Don't feel guilty about getting a new one.  It's not a Father's Day plot, you need a computer for your "work".   ;)

No worries on waiting for the next turn.  We'll still be here. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 22, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
I tried again this morning. No joy. A motherboard inspection yielded zilch - no obvious burned or melted parts. I don't have any extra RAM to swap out. The poor thing is just...dead. Absolutely no response when the on button is pushed, just silent black. I'll take it in to a shop when we get home, but I suspect they will just charge me $40 to tell me my laptop died. My guess is the old 3rd gen Intel cpu. Anyway I should be back to my desktop Saturday +/-. Sorry about the delay :/
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 22, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
Re. "Work" - yes! It is a statistical fact that we old retired guys die faster if we are idle. So it is also a health essential to get a laptop up and running ASAP so that I can continue my work-ish endeavors...a matter of life and death!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 22, 2020, 01:41:48 PM
Re. "Work" - yes! It is a statistical fact that we old retired guys die faster if we are idle. So it is also a health essential to get a laptop up and running ASAP so that I can continue my work-ish endeavors...a matter of life and death!

I love that explanation and will use it when my retirement time comes!
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2020, 01:42:55 AM
I would also suspect graphics card, I had a laptop die that way years back.  And once it's fried the machine won't do much of anything when you turn it on.  However if it's not turning on at all you could also have a damaged/failed power supply etc (I've also had a power supply go bad on a different computer).

With bad RAM you can usually still make it to the bios.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 24, 2020, 07:03:43 PM
Well, I have ordered a new laptop. I will be back home to my desktop in a few days, long before the laptop arrives. The deal my son found was too good to pass up. He found a $1700 MSI laptop for $1200 at Costco of all places. Given the cost of probable repair and replacement parts cost for my old machine, I bit the bullet and ordered it. Those old parts command high prices IF you can find them.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on June 25, 2020, 07:57:40 AM
Good to hear solops.  I bought an MSI laptop two years ago from Best Buy for around that price that you paid and I've been very happy with it.  It's not my main gaming rig but it does a good job when I'm on the road.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 25, 2020, 11:45:42 AM
The Steam summer sale has started. And I am at an isolated cabin with a broken laptop.  :(
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 25, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
My wife sniffed and said "Think of the money we'll save".   :\
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 28, 2020, 12:12:15 PM
Ok, looks like I should get my turn in by tomorrow (Monday) evening. I am really sorry about the delay. I am curious, how many times have each of you resubmitted the turn?  :)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on June 28, 2020, 01:41:42 PM
Just once, changing allocations and a move or two after Uruk ended NAP.  New EU 4 patch came out recently and I've been doing the DCSS tournament until today so haven't done a lot with Dominions during the hiatus.  I tested expansion with a few nations, that's about it.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on June 29, 2020, 08:13:25 PM
Ok, I am home, back to the desktop! I should get my turn submitted tonight. My new laptop should be delivered soon as well.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 01, 2020, 03:42:40 PM
I think llamaserver had some issues importing to a new server, so there really wasn't a lot of time lost either way.  Hope the trip was enjoyable, albeit without the laptop...
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 03, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
My new laptop came in and it is a beast compared to my old one, even though it cost much, much less. I have spent all day setting it up, probably making some questionable decisions as I try to keep up my MP games on the side :)  Getting my games reinstalled is going to be a loooong process. I live in the country and internet is just bad. It will take 15 HOURS just to download TW:Warhammer II.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on July 05, 2020, 05:35:05 PM
I live in the country and internet is just bad. It will take 15 HOURS just to download TW:Warhammer II.
FIFTEEN HOURS!?
What do you use for internet, ants running back and forth really fast?

As this game is heading swiftly toward a climax, does anybody have any thoughts on what era they would like the next game to be set in?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 05, 2020, 05:37:54 PM

As this game is heading swiftly toward a climax, does anybody have any thoughts on what era they would like the next game to be set in?

I'm feeling EA would be a good change of pace, but I'm also up for LA if we want to really switch it up.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 06, 2020, 09:48:59 AM
I'm not sure this game is near ending yet, but for next game I'd be okay with any age.

I would like to emphasize the importance of practicing expansion in whatever choice is made though.  Games skew too much with massive disparity in expansion and it's not as fun for anyone IMO if players are effectively out of the game before 1st war.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 06, 2020, 11:10:41 AM
Sorry, this was my first online game and I didn't realize how important expansion is in the first 10 turns.  I've been doing a lot better in my latest online game as MA Agartha, so maybe C'tis just isn't for me.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 06, 2020, 09:31:30 PM
I'm not intending to call out you specifically (this is only game 2 for me! We are all still making mistakes)...realistically we had 3 nations shoot out far ahead of the other 3 in initial expansion.  And anybody can have a bad opening (Lucid just got styled on by indies in a recent game a few times).  It's just that with 6 nations and the province count on this map it allowed three of us to get ~30 provinces of land without fighting another player, which is a devastating advantage that skewed diplomatic choices heavily shortly after year 1.

Nations have different strengths and weaknesses, and some are considered broadly better or weaker overall.  C'tis can get to 15-20 provinces year 1 with scales, but it's pretty finnicky and very punishing if you make a mistake in the attempt.  I'd say find a nation or few nations that speak to you and just practice them repeatedly until you can handle the openings reliably.  In game 1 I played Xibalba which is considered a bad nation in MA, and scales expanded it to 20 provinces at end of year 1.  Most nations can do something like that, or have a setup that allows them to cut some scales and still perform well (for example EA Kailasa's monkey troops are really bad in scales expansion, but tanking sloth is almost free for them, so they can go awake expander or take a decent bless and work with the sacreds to expand).
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 07, 2020, 08:28:40 AM
I could go for EA. EA Agartha was fun last time. I learned a lot and would like to try it again. Al_infierno, I have found MA Agartha to be a mediocre expansionist, not good, not bad. It has a good middle game, but it has some real drawbacks to go with the strengths, as it should be. In our game (game 3 for me) I found myself pinned on all sides by competitors who started 4 or 5 spaces away. I had a bit of a breathing space to my west, but did not discover this until too late. I wasted too much energy to my east and south. North was a lake, which in hindsight, I wish I had jumped early.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 07, 2020, 02:45:25 PM
I'd be up for another EA game.  Not sure who I'd pick but if I can't decide I might go with Vanheim since they are the nation that I have the most single player experience with.

Early expansion is key but there definitely is a formula to it that might be hard for a new comer to pick up.  But there are some tips that I've learned over these past few multiplayer games I've played with you all that have helped. 

1. Don't be afraid to buy a bunch of cheap throw away units.  They more often than not can take on independents and grab you territory.  Don't use them against actual human players however.

2. Build a couple of useless indy generals and use them to cart around reinforcements to you 'good' generals. 

3. Don't underestimate the use of a general kitted with construction 1- construction 3 items.  He can easily beat most indy armies all by himself and grab land for you quickly. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 07, 2020, 04:25:00 PM
 O0  Appreciate the tips.  MA Agartha is certainly a blast - my current game has a rather large province count, so I had no problem establishing some hefty Shard Guard + Magma Children armies.  It's the squid people just south of me in R'lyeh that worry me.    #:-)

If we play EA, I think I'd like to pick Tien Chi.  If we do MA, I might give C'tis another spin.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on July 07, 2020, 07:03:12 PM
@Solops: Oh god, not more Magma Children and Great Olms! So many brave humans and adorable little Bakemono have been scorched to a crisp by Agartha!

@al_infierno: I would make sure to practice a lot with Tien Chi, especially mid to late game magic. They are a pretty high skill cap nation with awkward magic paths and mages.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 07, 2020, 07:10:27 PM
^ I'll keep that in mind, my initial testing with TC has been pretty strong but it's hard to really practice for mid/late game against the AI, unfortunately.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 07, 2020, 07:49:14 PM
EA TC has good troops (really good by EA standards) with below average mages, unlike MA which gets the earth/astral it can recruit anywhere which can be nuts.  The main challenge for them is dealing with anti-human magic as the game wears on.  Site searching and getting higher path mages is really critical.  National summons help a lot too, you can summon nature 3's without bothering to boost and some of the summons are strong.  They can do meme blesses to give summoned ghosts some amusing effects, but they're probably best off emphasizing scales.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 08, 2020, 05:50:41 PM
EA TC is another of my favorites and one that I have a lot of single player experience with.  And yes by mid game their mages aren't that great.  At least I haven't figured out a way to use them properly.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 09, 2020, 04:48:37 PM
Oh man, missed out on some fun!

I'd be up for an EA game.  LA has got a whole different feel in another game that I'm in.... not bad, but different.  Lot less magic, lot more Crossbows and knights.  But still fun, don't get me wrong.

Just throwing this out there, but if we end up with an even number of players, a disciple game may be a fun thing to try.  No biggy if we don't though.  I'm going to start hitting the books on some EA nations I'd like to try.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 09, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Oh, disciples sounds fun too actually.  Could be an interesting changeup.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 09, 2020, 05:41:14 PM
OK... looking at EA Caelum for some excitement if we opt for Early age.   

Echoing some of the comments above, and me being a relative MP noob as well, I can't stress how helpful several of the "Let's play" videos are which are readily available.  Lucid's MP expansion video about testing a nation in SP at least 4 times and seeing how many provinces you can capture in the first 12 months is gold.  Learning which types of indies your troops can handle, and learning what expansion parties your nation needs to move are crucial.  This testing also helps one to know whether they can get away with a dormant Pretender or need one to help with expansion. 

Or, you could be like me, and bank on an imprisoned Pretender, only to have him die on the very turn he appears as your cap is taken.  And then he dies again when you realize that calling a God automatically summons him to an occupied capital....
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 09, 2020, 06:43:03 PM
Or, you could be like me, and bank on an imprisoned Pretender, only to have him die on the very turn he appears as your cap is taken.  And then he dies again when you realize that calling a God automatically summons him to an occupied capital....

Damn, where's a "skull face crying with laughter" emoji when I need one?

My end was swift and brutal, but not nearly as hilariously unfortunate.   :clap:
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 10, 2020, 08:38:40 AM
I have never played a disciples game. What is it? I guess I am ambivalent about playing that way.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 10, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
Essentially amounts to a team game, where one nation has the Pretender, and the other "disciple" nation has the prophet.  It allows the teams to benefit from the presence of 2 different nations together, so the strategies can be quite diverse, as one would imagine.

The only downside I foresee, is if we end up with another 6 player game.  In that case, we end up with an odd number of teams, which get's, well, odd. May be wiser for a normal game under those circumstances.  An 8 player game would make it more doable I believe. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 10, 2020, 02:41:22 PM
A Disciples game would be interesting, but I agree we would need more players.

If the folks here are familiar with Discord, there's an active server called Clockwork Hounds that you can use to put together games.  I created an EA game and opened it up to anyone who wanted to join, and it filled up with about 15 people within a few days.  There's always the risk of people staling, or having people join who just bought the game and don't really know what they're getting into, etc.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 10, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
The other two games I'm in right now are in the Reddit Dominions discord group.  The Clockwork hosted games are pretty slick.  Llamaserver is easy enough, but the Clockwork games are much easier to boot up without having to download the turn files, put them in the save folder, etc.  If some folks on the Grogheads forum don't want to do the Discord thing though, then the Llamaserver is certainly the way to go.

I'm part of the Clockwork Hounds discord group, but don't spend much time on there.  Next time you fire up a game on there, give me a heads up and I'll try to hop in. 

Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 10, 2020, 03:00:52 PM
 O0  Will do.  My discord handle is 408Lurker#7084 for anyone who wants to add me on there.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2020, 08:35:14 PM
We need 4 digit code too to add.

I'm TheMeInTeam #4534
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 10, 2020, 08:46:42 PM
Updated my post.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on July 10, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
I've never really used Discord, but my info is
Ajidica#9741
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 12, 2020, 07:40:37 AM
On another note, it may be fun to consider using the DE (Dominions Enhanced) mod for our next game.  It doesn't too drastically alter the game, but is a compilation of mods that adds a lot of depth and balancing to magic, nations etc... 

It seems to be used in a lot of the Discord games I've seen, and I'm in one LA game that is using it.   
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 13, 2020, 06:58:24 AM
Discord is awesome.  I joined the Clockwork Hounds group.  Sounds like an easier way to play Dominions with friends. 

My info is; W8taminute#4522
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 15, 2020, 11:06:11 PM
Apologies for the lateness of my turn. In addition to desperately trying to come up with a Great Plan to Save the World From Eriu, my A/C went out on July 6. It has been over 100 here for 6 straight days. Getting repairs done through a home appliance insurance policy has been frustrating. I expect to have my turn in tomorrow and we will all see if Eriu can overcome the defenders of Area 74 (where Agartha keeps the UFOs).
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 16, 2020, 09:28:42 AM
Apologies for the lateness of my turn. In addition to desperately trying to come up with a Great Plan to Save the World From Eriu, my A/C went out on July 6. It has been over 100 here for 6 straight days. Getting repairs done through a home appliance insurance policy has been frustrating. I expect to have my turn in tomorrow and we will all see if Eriu can overcome the defenders of Area 74 (where Agartha keeps the UFOs).

No worries solops.  We all understand how life can get in the way of our fun sometimes.  Home appliance insurance policies are so painful.  Went through something similar a few years back with a washing machine and although I'd rather not relive that experience I wouldn't wish that hassle on anyone.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 17, 2020, 01:20:14 PM
It would appear that a congrats are in order for theMeInTeam for his upcoming throne victory!   Merits to be given for outstanding(and annoying) skill with the elves and diplomacy. 

Many thanks to everyone for letting me play along.  Vichy Sceleria got to at least tag along for the duration, even if it was castrated....  Would love to hear everyone's thoughts now that we've come to a conclusion.

I'm looking forward to us firing up the next game. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 17, 2020, 02:45:39 PM
Oh man I can't wait to get home and load the turn in.  Didn't think it would be over so quick. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 17, 2020, 04:10:57 PM
Got my a-- handed to me. Learned all about some new spell combinations in a very special way. Getting tired of all the knots on my head from TMIT and Ajidica.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 17, 2020, 09:35:32 PM
I appreciate the congrats, but I want to advance the turn and see victory before I count on victory!

It was fun, though there were some rough moments.  Tough choice on early target, and then having multiple players turn against me mid-war, all the while getting almost the entirety of Mictlan's attention!  Even now there are giant Agartha armies mulching a fort deep in Mictlan territory that I was effectively forced to abandon lol.  Winning decisively against rainbow resistances and heavy prot doesn't come cheaply.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 17, 2020, 09:51:02 PM
Dang man, congrats!

I guess it's time to start talking about era choice for the next game?  O0
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on July 19, 2020, 11:48:53 AM
Congratulations to TMIT for a well-won victory!

With regards to next game, I would like to place the following nation picks:

EA: Rus (Fun with were-bears!)
MA: Abysia (Not as bad as EA Abysia.)
LA: Man (Our arrows shall blot out the sun!)
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 19, 2020, 01:12:58 PM
Very good win there Sons of Eriu!  That had to be tough though as you say with all those enemies to deal with.  I think we all realized the Eriu was the power to be stopped too late.  We got distracted by Mictlan. 

Very good game though.  I'm still thinking of EA Vanheim but not sure what I'd go with if we play any other era.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 19, 2020, 01:16:31 PM
GG all!

Some interesting tidbits from the score graphs:

- Initial expansion saw top 3 nations pretty close, but after that Mictlan was in the lead until the final war
- Despite that, Agartha and I were actually ahead in gold income during the peace time. 
- Gem income was close between Mictlan and me leading up to the war
- C'tis briefly had the research lead, but didn't have the expansion/army to back it.  After that I took a commanding with it, which is somewhat surprising because not only did I take drain, but I was relying on expensive sidhe lords for most of the research (their real purpose was killing power, but when not doing that having tech helps).
- Mictlan's dominion was pretty obnoxious.  I had a lot of temples but I think Mictlan took more candles initially
- Even on the last turn of the game, Agartha's army was barely smaller than mine, and mine was inflated with lots of trash to help siege (militia, slingers, etc).  Those rainbow resist deathballs are a pain and this would have been a difficult war for me if it were extended, possibly carried only by income differential and research lead (I wasn't too far from being able to cast army of gold).

In other words, I wasn't exactly a "power to be stopped", and this game could have gone very differently with a few different battle choices/timings.

~~~

After extensive testing with EA Tien Chi, I have concluded that it is significantly worse than the nations I've played so far, and probably worse than Mekone in practice even.  So I won't play them next game, maybe in the future if I learn more.

Tentative picks:

EA: Ulm
MA: Uruk
LA: Really unsure on LA but would be fine playing it
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 19, 2020, 03:27:34 PM
GG Indeed!

Some notes and thoughts from myself, albeit my first full MP game...

-My expansion and fort building went as planned, and as well as could be expected.  However, the investment in the infrastructure, at the cost of a larger army, left me vulnerable to the combined attacks of Eriu and Mictlan.  I would have squared off well I believe in a 1v1 war vs Mictlan at that point, but I never had an answer to the Eriu Sidhe thunder spam.  Aidijica pointed out that I needed to transition more quickly from the cultist to the Thaumaturg mages.  While I was heading in that direction, I believe he was correct.  A more effective defense from me, backed by a greater number and more capable mages,even in a 2 front war, may have allowed me to retain more holdings for when the inevitable break between Mictlan and Eriu had to occur. Speaking of....

- The Molotov-Ribbentrop accord between Eriu and Mictlan was fascinating, and understandable, even if I was salty about it at first.    It would have been interesting to see what would have taken place if the other powers jumped in to launch a war on the vulnerable flanks of the belligerents. The deal seemed to leave Eriu with the advantage overall, although Mictlan ended up with the larger empire per se, Eriu walked away with the 2 point throne, a one point throne, and my cap.  More important though, Mictlan still came across as the big threat, given the size of his empire, which allowed the formation of the Eriu/Agartha alliance, a key moment in the game.  I'd love to hear Aidijica's thoughts on things given the benefit of hindsight now.

-Agartha had some tremendous potential, and some killer doom armies.  I'd love to have seen what would have occurred without the quick throne victory.

A great game.  Would love to play another, and am open to any age.  Also, will throw in another plug for the Dominions Enhanced mod, but again, am good either way.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 19, 2020, 04:03:58 PM
Should we increase the required Ascension Points to win for the next game?  Or do you guys feel like that was a good balance?

My tentative picks:

EA: Tir Na Nog C'tis
MA: Vanheim C'tis
LA: Marignon
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 19, 2020, 06:38:43 PM
8/11 is a pretty good throne percentage IMO.  I'm not sure if we can do anything about their positioning - Mictlan, C'tis, Sceleria and I had significantly easier throne positions than Agartha or especially Uruk, but you need extensive map coverage to have a shot at 8 points and with a more balanced expansion phase nobody will be close to it early like what happened in this game.  Maybe reduce the number of 2 points thrones and add two more 1 pointers.

Per earlier discussion it looks like EA is most likely for next game, and man that's going to be painful with multiple elf nations and Rus flinging lightning everywhere.  I expect a ton of shock resist in blesses :p.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Ajidica on July 19, 2020, 08:33:35 PM
@TMIT: Could you post score graphs please?

Should we increase the required Ascension Points to win for the next game?  Or do you guys feel like that was a good balance?

My tentative picks:

EA: Tir Na Nog
MA: Vanheim
LA: Marignon
Oh god more Elf nations. I've seen enough Sidhe Lords (and by extension, Vanjarls) to last me a lifetime!

- The Molotov-Ribbentrop accord between Eriu and Mictlan was fascinating, and understandable, even if I was salty about it at first.    It would have been interesting to see what would have taken place if the other powers jumped in to launch a war on the vulnerable flanks of the belligerents. The deal seemed to leave Eriu with the advantage overall, although Mictlan ended up with the larger empire per se, Eriu walked away with the 2 point throne, a one point throne, and my cap.  More important though, Mictlan still came across as the big threat, given the size of his empire, which allowed the formation of the Eriu/Agartha alliance, a key moment in the game.  I'd love to hear Aidijica's thoughts on things given the benefit of hindsight now.
So, almost all of the diplomatic maneuvering came from 2 of the six players having poor expansion, and a third having (apparently) late expansion. Sceleria was the biggest late game threat, but I knew we had some decent midgame matchups against Sceleria (ie: Mictlan with its cheap priests and fire arrow spam, Agartha's statues and fire aura summons) so I wasn't sold on a quick war with Sceleria until Eriu and I mutually agreed on a war, which my notes indicate was around turn 16 or so. Before that, I would have been open to a potential alliance with Sceleria, perhaps not in carving up Eriu, but at least getting him off my back so I could eat Uruk or Ctis.
I know for a fact I misplayed the late game. I do not want to take anything away from TMIT's win, but I have little late game experience and it showed in my use of (or lack thereof!) buffing spells and anti-SC spells/gear.
The poor expansion by Uruk and Ctis ensured that after Sceleria was knocked out, the next war would be between me and Eriu with Agartha as kingmaker; with Agartha deciding I was the greater threat which, although probably true in an objective sense, my misplays worked against that.
With hindsight, I would probably have played the same diplo game as I did. Sceleria demonstrated himself to be a competent player which would be a major threat mid and late game, confirming my decision to 2v1 him with Eriu. After that, I'm not sure how else I could have worked the diplo game. I tried noting with Agartha and Uruk how Eriu was in a good spot, but they continued to view me (not unreasonably) as the greatest threat.

I am curious as to what Agartha's long-term plan was. By attacking me you weakened my ability to fight Eriu while also opening yourself up to a three front war. I was already falling apart, and by waiting to attack Eriu, Eriu had enough momentum to force through my last defenses and grab the thrones from me and you needed to win.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 19, 2020, 09:06:54 PM
You can see scoregraphs if you load current turn I think?

Definitely want to think about ways to kill SCs, I thought of 3 that would probably have worked for each of earth/fire kings.  Especially after earth king got so afflicted it had gutted attack rating, even a couple indy cav commanders or something could roll up with copper plate + moon blades or greatswords of sharpness and chop it up.  Axes of hate would take the RNG almost completely out.  Stellar cascades does 25 fatigue damage a cast...and still does half that even when resisted.  Blood has both leech and life for a life, depending how far you tech it, and these are F U spells to thugs/SC.

I think the biggest turning point of the game for Agartha was Uruk attacking me and losing badly.  I got a lot of land and income there, at the price of tying up an earth/fire king, a sea king, and recruiting some chaff.  This also left land for me that Uruk could have taken from Mictlan.  If Uruk and Agartha had capitalized on the fact that most of the Mictlan troops and gem resources were (reasonably) on me they could have taken more land in the war than I did with more aggression, and made the war after that very difficult for me.  Similarly, if Agartha + Mictlan attacked me together rather than the team on Mictlan, I'd have likely lost (with likely winner being Mictlan, given throne situation before the war).
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 19, 2020, 09:37:22 PM
Actually, if we do EA or MA I think I'll grab C'tis again.  At this point I've probably practiced with them more than any other nation, and I've played them in 1 other EA game.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 20, 2020, 07:04:14 AM
All good points on this game guys.  This was probably the most confusing game I've played against other humans.  Part of my indecision was due to my poor expansion.  The other part was my reluctance to attack nations who never did me wrong this game.  By the time I realized I needed to do something to at least slow down the top two it was too late.  I chose to attack Eriu based on the number of thrones held and the picture of their territory that my spies had gathered. 

From my point of view and based on the info I gathered it was apparent the Mictlan had run out of steam and Agartha was not willing or not able to fight much either.  I knew I would lose regardless of who I choose to declare war on but I didn't realize how fast I would crumble.  I had nothing to stop an SC from any nation.  That is my Achilles heal. 

I'll have to look this up but I remember that from Dom4 a turn played out with assassinations occurring first followed by movement, followed by battle.  I'm assuming that is how it works in Dom5.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 20, 2020, 10:46:50 AM
All good points on this game guys.  This was probably the most confusing game I've played against other humans.  Part of my indecision was due to my poor expansion.  The other part was my reluctance to attack nations who never did me wrong this game.  By the time I realized I needed to do something to at least slow down the top two it was too late.  I chose to attack Eriu based on the number of thrones held and the picture of their territory that my spies had gathered. 

From my point of view and based on the info I gathered it was apparent the Mictlan had run out of steam and Agartha was not willing or not able to fight much either.  I knew I would lose regardless of who I choose to declare war on but I didn't realize how fast I would crumble.  I had nothing to stop an SC from any nation.  That is my Achilles heal. 

I'll have to look this up but I remember that from Dom4 a turn played out with assassinations occurring first followed by movement, followed by battle.  I'm assuming that is how it works in Dom5.

https://illwiki.com/dom5/turn-order-sequence

Assassinations happen after magic phase attacks, but before regular movement.  We experienced that quite a bit in the previous game where you were Tien Chi :p.

This means an assassin could get mind hunted/killed by seeking arrow/earth attack/etc before attempting the assassination.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: W8taminute on July 20, 2020, 11:26:05 AM
^Thanks for the link.  That's exactly what I was looking for. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: Myrmidon on July 20, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
OK, if we go EA, I'm going Arcoscephale.  If we decide to do LA, I need to do some more research. 
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: solops on July 22, 2020, 02:47:48 PM
Guys, I am going to sit this one out.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (IN PROGRESS)
Post by: al_infierno on July 22, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
 :(
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: Ajidica on July 23, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
Sorry to hear that solops.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 24, 2020, 11:56:40 AM
Does this mean I should select Agartha for my nation :D?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 12:11:14 PM
Does this mean I should select Agartha for my nation :D?
Sure! Just be sure to wear an eye-patch when playing.
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: al_infierno on July 24, 2020, 02:04:30 PM
Can I go ahead and declare the game "finished" on llamaserver to clear up the server space for other games?
Title: Re: [Dominions 5] Grogspocalypse Now! (FINISHED)
Post by: W8taminute on July 24, 2020, 05:58:16 PM
Yeah definitely declare the game finished to clear out the llamaserver queue.