GrogHeads Forum

Digital Gaming => Ally/Opponent Finder => Dominions III LFG and Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: al_infierno on July 24, 2020, 02:10:16 PM

Title: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 24, 2020, 02:10:16 PM
Another grogs game of Dominions 5, this time in Early Ages.  Will be using llamaserver PBEM to play.

Nation picks:

Ajidica - Rus
W8taminute - Vanheim
TheMeInTeam - Atlantis
Myrmidon - Arcoscephale
al_infierno - C'tis
solops - Agartha
Tanaka - Abysia


http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=GrogsPrequel
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grospocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Yskonyn on July 24, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
Hey man! Thanks for thinking of me once again.
I canít quite yet commit yet, sorry

Have fun and keep me in the loop for next one.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on July 24, 2020, 05:57:48 PM
Hi al_infierno,

Thanks for putting this game together for us.  I will indeed stick with EA Vanheim for this game.  Good luck to us all!
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 24, 2020, 06:03:04 PM
Thanks for putting this together al_infierno!

Any thought on maps? With only five players, Biddyn looks good to me. It is a bit on the large side for four players so five should fit nicely.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 24, 2020, 06:14:52 PM
I'm thinking I probably won't do Ulm.  Was test-casing a water nation but that would be unplayable on Biddyn, so I'll demo a few other things.  It's tempting to pick Agartha too but I probably won't.  Probably :).
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 06:42:18 PM
You guys are making me have second thought about not playing.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 24, 2020, 07:41:10 PM
You guys are making me have second thought about not playing.

SU NIOJ... SU NIOJ...  >:D
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 24, 2020, 08:07:51 PM
You guys are making me have second thought about not playing.

Please do join!  The game is definitely a richer experience with more people.  If time is an issue, I'm sure we could slow down the turn timer to allow more to have an opportunity to play. 
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 08:19:44 PM
Ok. I'll play. If Agartha is still open I'll take it.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 08:30:40 PM
Map thoughts - I think that the pre-fab maps like Biddyn  and Pelywr have a set max number of starting places set up. If the map is set up for 8 players but only 6 join that leaves uninhabited start slots that will give the nearby nations an empty space to expand into. Not good. If the map is fully populated, then you have to be happy with the designed number of provinces per player. Some of these maps are pretty tight, biasing events towards early war and the resulting effect on pretender design. I am going to suggest we strongly consider an agreeable number of provinces per player and the let Dominions5 make a map for us. The game will space us out fairly well evenly. It does occasionally put a player in a really bad spot, but the devs have made improvements. If someone feels that they have an absolutely untenable starting spot, we can re-gen. Thoughts?
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 08:35:05 PM
Now that the swelling from the knots on my head have gone down (thanks TMIT and Ajidica), I'm going to start pretender testing. I think I forgot how to play.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 24, 2020, 08:36:01 PM
Agartha is yours!  Good to have ya back :bd:

As for map choice, I'd agree with doing a random map this time.  I've had good experiences with MapNuke making pretty balanced maps, with the downsides being: A. they're harder on the eyes than the vanilla maps, and B. someone would have to basically curate the map while seeing everyone's starting points.

If we want to keep it simple, then we could do a vanilla random map and restart until everyone's happy.  I'm also not against using a premade again, of course.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 24, 2020, 10:52:52 PM
I'm fine with a randomized map as well.  Will influence starting build a bit but that's not a big deal.  A warning to Agartha if we use vanilla that it's unlikely to generate caves outside your capital.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 24, 2020, 11:59:20 PM
I'm fine with a randomized map as well.  Will influence starting build a bit but that's not a big deal.  A warning to Agartha if we use vanilla that it's unlikely to generate caves outside your capital.

So I have noticed :(
You can increase the percentage in the generator and sometimes get a few more but, in general you are correct. I also noticed that the generator does not make many rivers unless you put rivers in as a large number.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 25, 2020, 07:58:37 AM
If we are going random map, I'd like to see the map before we start the game. EA Rus is heavily dependent on access to forests outside of its cap.
(Also, do we know how to upload a map to llamaserver? That was always a stumbling block whenever W8taminute and I wanted to use a custom map in our 1v1 games.)

Since we are keeping six players, should we keep the thrones the same? 8 total, 2 level 2, 6 to win?
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 25, 2020, 08:17:51 AM
Awesome news Solops!

I'm good with the randomized map as well.  At the end of the day, I don't think we are going to have a perfect map for everyone, but if we gen a map, and someone feels that there is an unreasonable disadvantage, we can go from there. 





Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 25, 2020, 09:15:57 AM

(Also, do we know how to upload a map to llamaserver? That was always a stumbling block whenever W8taminute and I wanted to use a custom map in our 1v1 games.)


<rolls eyes>  There's always someone who spoils the splendor of an idea with cold, hard facts. :)

And no, have no clue how to upload a map :\
But a lot of other people do it. Are they smarter than we are? NO!!! We can DO it!  Go Team Grog!

Now. Someone figure it out....
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 25, 2020, 09:19:06 AM
Thrones -  I am fine with what we had. Or whatever. I'm really flexible on that.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 25, 2020, 09:49:17 AM
It appears easy enough to upload a map, based on what I've read.  Happy to give it a go, unless someone else wants to. 

Regarding thrones, I'm pretty flexible.  Thrones are fun to have around, so I'd rather have more than less, but I'm wide open about it.   If we want to spice things up, we can throw in a cataclysm at turn 99 (or less) to keep the game from dragging on into the Ether... of course, that wasn't a problem last game... ;D
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 25, 2020, 09:51:32 AM
Actually... take a look at this...

http://www.llamaserver.net/createDom5Game.cgi

There appears to be a wide wide array of map options,  we can upload our own if we want, or we can generate our own from this page.  There's a lot of potentially nice premade ones though if everyone wants to browse.

EDIT: If any of the above information was already known and incredibly obvious to you guys since day 1, please accept my apologies. The Dunning-Kruger effect runs strong in me sometimes unless I check myself.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 26, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
I think you still have to be able to download the map, if it has been uploaded?
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 26, 2020, 12:54:27 PM
Not quite Solops. The map has to be uploaded to Llamaserver to it can be selected on game creation. It also has to be distributed to the players so they have a copy of the map on their computer.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 26, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
One of the things I like about the Clockwork Network games, the map and mods are automatically downloaded when one plays a game the first time.

Anywho, there are tons of maps already on there that we could choose from. Worst case scenario, we upload one. 

I'm sure it would be easy enough for all of us to download the map we select.  I could even setup a temporary dropbox link to distribute it, if that would make things easier.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 27, 2020, 08:59:06 AM
I know you all have been testing out things for the new game. Are any of you finding the EA early expansion tougher than MA, or is it just me  :)
I kind of like it, as long as it isn't just me.  :))
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 27, 2020, 02:48:41 PM
Depends on nation played.  Some nations can massacre indies to 20+ provinces by t12.  Just one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoLmD6vWGIY

I don't think EA Agartha can do that, but it seems to be able to expand okay.  I was joking when I said I'd pick them when you weren't playing, so I haven't actually tested them.
 Just now I theorycrafted a few builds and then threw this together, I think it could be optimized more: https://i.imgur.com/dX080Kr.jpg.  Still even as-is it's 16 provinces on turn 12 with 2nd fort done and 3rd fort under construction (moving to place 4th and 5th in a few turns). 

EA Agartha's regular troops are straight trash in direct combat.  Not only do they have below average attack and defense scores (so they hit less often and get hit more often), but they are size 3 so only fit 2 to a square.  So you get 2 relatively unimpressive attacks that hit slightly harder but more rarely against 3 also-unimpressive attacks that hit more often...when compared to *indy light infantry*.  The sacreds share this problem, except for three redeeming properties: 1) they have more HP, 2) some of them are recruit-anywhere 3) unlike regular troops they can take a bless.

This means EA and MA play pretty differently in practice.  Recruit-anywhere sacreds are a rare property for most nations, and EA's weak troop lineup and decent mage options lends itself to blessing based on troops.  In MA, you have some high prot standard human troops, sacreds troops are cap-only, and your by-far most common mage is sacred with known paths.  In MA I'd be tempted to take a rainbow bless that fits far caster into it for the 45 range maws of earth or (using 3 gem fire in jars) magma eruption spam.  In EA it's more blessed + buffed troops with maybe some light thugging from earth readers...though earth readers can do a lot of direct damage with maws of the earth/size 6 earth elemental summons or spamming stoneskin or ironskin onto still-resistant sacreds.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 27, 2020, 04:19:27 PM
The MeinTeam is of course a far senior advisor than I, but I'll share a few pointers I've gotten recently when it comes to the early expanding:

Any squads used in expansion party, should always have more than 5 per squad... minimum 8 to be safe.  When a squad falls below 5 peeps, morale checks take place every turn, which can lead to a route.  I was testing an EA Caelum build and struggling, even with Mammoths, but I had them in separate squads from my flying infantry, which was causing morale problems.  Putting them in the same squad took away some tactical possibilities, but made early expansion forces, which tend to be small, much more effective.

Even with decent expansion squads, there are still certain indies that will wreck.  Barbarians are ruthless at first, and certain expansion forces will do better vs infantry than cavalry, and vice versa.

Of course, if despite all testing, your early expansions aren't up to what you want, than there's always the combat pretender, designed to help achieve nice expansion.  It's not a sin to go that route. I believe it was TheMeinTeam who more or less pointed out- "To make it to the late game, one has to make it past the early game".

As a final note, the folks in my discord MP have pointed out that expanding on Dominions 5 generated maps can be more challenging than the mapnuke maps or player designed ones... so if some of the maps you are genning are proving difficult, it may be due to that.

And of course, if all the above was already obvious to you from the get-go, my apologies.   

Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 27, 2020, 04:33:43 PM
The MeinTeam is of course a far senior advisor than I, but I'll share a few pointers I've gotten recently when it comes to the early expanding:

Any squads used in expansion party, should always have more than 5 per squad... minimum 8 to be safe.  When a squad falls below 5 peeps, morale checks take place every turn, which can lead to a route.  I was testing an EA Caelum build and struggling, even with Mammoths, but I had them in separate squads from my flying infantry, which was causing morale problems.  Putting them in the same squad took away some tactical possibilities, but made early expansion forces, which tend to be small, much more effective.

Even with decent expansion squads, there are still certain indies that will wreck.  Barbarians are ruthless at first, and certain expansion forces will do better vs infantry than cavalry, and vice versa.

Of course, if despite all testing, your early expansions aren't up to what you want, than there's always the combat pretender, designed to help achieve nice expansion.  It's not a sin to go that route. I believe it was TheMeinTeam who more or less pointed out- "To make it to the late game, one has to make it past the early game".

As a final note, the folks in my discord MP have pointed out that expanding on Dominions 5 generated maps can be more challenging than the mapnuke maps or player designed ones... so if some of the maps you are genning are proving difficult, it may be due to that.

And of course, if all the above was already obvious to you from the get-go, my apologies.

Definitely not obvious, and I actually didn't even know the part about fewer than 5 per squad causing an MC every turn.   :o  I really feel like this kind of thing should be communicated to the player better than word of mouth or digging through the manual....
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 27, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
^ You can also do separate squads for tramplers, but throw some trash infantry into it so it doesn't route.  That infantry will lag behind the actual trample units, but it's still a "5-8 man squad" and thus won't take morale checks unless either the tramplers themselves die or something picks off the deliberate-straggler units lagging behind them (or the rest of your army gets trashed, heh).

Also keep in mind that these last two grogs games are the only MP games I've played...I'm still relatively new to MP.  I've just learned a lot of things from listening to YouTube/speed reading through guides/forums/etc.  I was pretty obnoxious back in my days as a student in terms of time spent : performance on assignments/exams, guess that extends to learning this kind of stuff too :p.  Even so, there are going to be things I'm missing in advice. I'm a rapidly learning amateur in this game, not an expert!

Agreed wrt awake expander of course.  I took a nerfed-price awake expander just last game (earth serpent), which expands nicely at a whopping price of 270 design points (!!!) and falls off in utility after years 1-2, turning into a glorified big earth mage/sack of HP.  But it shored up otherwise bad expansion on a nation that really doesn't benefit a great deal from heavily blessing sacreds.  It was the sole reason I won the vast majority of water provinces in the game, so I don't regret taking it in the context of the settings/known opposition.  If someone had picked a water nation I'd have chosen something else though.

For EA Agartha and other nations with recruit-anywhere sacreds that aren't a complete joke it's worth strong consideration of a heavier bless or at least a high-utility bless.  Maybe not quite to the extent of trashing scales like Mictlan did last game (though that's a classic choice in the case of Mictlan, most sacreds benefit less from thunder weapons), but it's still worth sacrificing a bit for recruit-anywhere sacreds (or a lot for Mictlan/Kailasa types).

That "you have to survive early game to win late game" comment was in regards to taking drain scales on some nations.  It's an option on Agartha, but I probably wouldn't go that route on them.  Though IMO the engravers are a bit of a trap.  Efficient researchers for cost, yes, but hard to get enough forts to leverage that and much worse in fights than earth readers, which are the vast majority of mage recruitments for EA Agartha.  Some olm sages for water searching/path access/casting resist cold (if needed), an oracle per main army for divine blessing and one for E4 to boost for rituals, but otherwise earth readers all the way.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 27, 2020, 05:10:54 PM
I am using a Dom5 generated map with indie strength 6. The first MP game we played I was EA Agartha. I remember it being easier :) Ysonkyn was Caelum, W8taminute was Vanheim and Ajidica was relentless.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 27, 2020, 05:34:59 PM
I'd be down to join if there is still space available? If so Abysia please.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 27, 2020, 05:58:21 PM
I'd be down to join if there is still space available? If so Abysia please.

Abysia is yours!   ;)
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 27, 2020, 07:01:48 PM
I've been practicing with indy strength 6, but I'm not sure it's the best or what would be the most balanced.  I've had a few test runs blown up by unfair indy setups (twice by an A6/A2 mage pairing that you can't see in a scouting report, looks like a normal province).  In one of those cases the province in question was "mostly militia" with some other stuff and immediately adjacent to cap.

I'm not sure if indy strength factors into generation of such provinces at all, but it's really nasty to lose an early expansion party with effectively no counterplay.  It's a non-linear effect on future expansion, probably halves the t12 outcome and costs in the 1000's of gold in practice.

Most provinces are reasonable in that you can see if a strong mages is present/radiating with power, or that the indy type in the province is unusual.  Having an air mage stronger than a conjuration 8 5 path summon appear with a bunch of air gems to throw first a few air elementals, then 100's of phantasmal troops in your face without warning seems a little excessive.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 27, 2020, 07:08:13 PM
Always glad to have another person!

On the subject of indy strength, I haven't had any problems with default indy strength, especially compared to LA where every province is full of heavy cav and crossbows it seems! That said, when using the random map generator, it seems nasty indies can appear more often than on the fixed maps; though that could just be because random maps seem biased toward giving you only one or two paths out from your cap.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 27, 2020, 09:18:04 PM
On the subject of maps, MapNuke tends create an evenly balanced, rolling landmass rather than the "continent" that the vanilla mapmaker gives you.  There also tend to be much fewer extraneous water provinces if there aren't any UW nations.  I'd agree that early expansion is generally less challenging, since you tend to have a lot more options for expansion with many provinces around you.  I've also never seen thrones end up next to capitals on MapNuke-made maps, which is a plus.

That said, I'm still pretty fond of the vanilla mapmaker, even if it has its issues.  Feels like a rarity when it doesn't place me on a coast or next to a throne, though.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 27, 2020, 09:39:04 PM
Always glad to have another person!

On the subject of indy strength, I haven't had any problems with default indy strength, especially compared to LA where every province is full of heavy cav and crossbows it seems! That said, when using the random map generator, it seems nasty indies can appear more often than on the fixed maps; though that could just be because random maps seem biased toward giving you only one or two paths out from your cap.
I would point out that the default strength is 5. We have been using 6 in our games to slow things down. Paths...yeah. particularly out of caves. I could not get more than two caves on the map unless I changed the default setting from 3 to 7  or eight. I don't know a great deal about the other generators, though I have tried them. I do like having a few roads on a map.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 27, 2020, 11:09:29 PM
After some practice games I am changing my pick to Atlantis.

Default strength is 5, yes.  The issue with increasing indy strength is that this does not affect each nation the same way.  Some are forced into more attrition while others can, with bless or just big prot/etc take out huge numbers w/o losses.

Since I'm playing a water nation I can't have something stronger than an air queen in my underwater cap circle, though that isn't why I'm playing them.  I underestimated them a bit since their magic path diversity is kind of bad (no sorcery outside S1), but they do get some things that help make up for that.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 28, 2020, 03:14:08 PM
Welcome Tanaka! 

This game is shaping up to be pretty exciting.  I agree with the general sentiments about sticking with an indy strength of 5.  Although RNG can't be eliminated, it's ideal if we can mitigate it to a certain extent.

I'd like to throw out another idea.. my other MP games all utilize 2 point thrones only (of course, the ascension points needed to win is adjusted accordingly).  I like this because claiming a throne now becomes somewhat of an investment, but it's typically worth it. Again though, I'm not married to the idea.

Having a water nation, especially manned by TheMeinTeam, is going to be very interesting.... :arr:
 
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 28, 2020, 05:07:02 PM
Definitely won't be safe to go in the water. Must add Jaws music to my playlist.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 28, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
Now that everyone has settled on a nation, do we know what map we are going to use?
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 28, 2020, 08:01:23 PM
I was just browsing on the Llamaserver website at the already loaded maps... I hadn't made it down very far, but the first one entitled casualracism(not racist) looked OK.  150 land provinces, 25 sea, looked fairly balanced....

But there may be some much better ones on there that I didn't get to.  We also need to decide how many provinces we are shooting for.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 28, 2020, 08:05:38 PM
if we want to use a map on llamaserver that we don't already have in our games, it has to provide a download link

As far as province count, was thinking 15-20 a player with about 1/6 water provinces. Agartha can contest water fairly well, and late game Rus has some interesting water summons while ctis' skeletons can go under water.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 28, 2020, 08:59:21 PM
Agartha is yours!  Good to have ya back :bd:

As for map choice, I'd agree with doing a random map this time.  I've had good experiences with MapNuke making pretty balanced maps, with the downsides being: A. they're harder on the eyes than the vanilla maps, and B. someone would have to basically curate the map while seeing everyone's starting points.

If we want to keep it simple, then we could do a vanilla random map and restart until everyone's happy.  I'm also not against using a premade again, of course.

My vote is for random MapNuke as well...
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 28, 2020, 10:24:34 PM
I think I like the idea of creating a MapNuke map, uploading it to DropBox for everyone to download and playtest for a period of time (1-2 weeks?) before we start the game, or someone can veto in favor of a re-gen if their start sucks.  That would be a decent balance between randomizing a map catered to our nation list, and giving everyone a fair chance to test expansion.

The big issue here is that start positions seem to be more strictly defined on MapNuke than vanilla.  You can set generic starts, but our nations are pretty diverse - the only 2 nations who share starting region types are Agartha and Abysia, who both start in caves, so it would be pretty obvious who is where anyways.

If randomizing our start locations is important to anyone, I'd recommend we use the vanilla mapgen or a premade.  Any thoughts one way or the other?
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 29, 2020, 06:43:09 AM
I am pretty ambivalent about the map generator used. 15-20 areas per player sounds fine. The map Myrmidon mentioned would probably be OK. A map that has a few roads would be desirable but not necessary. Random starting is preferable to using a map with pre-determined starting spots unless ALL the spots are occupied. Oh, and an all caves map would be really great, too.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 29, 2020, 11:06:52 AM
I think I like the idea of creating a MapNuke map, uploading it to DropBox for everyone to download and playtest for a period of time (1-2 weeks?) before we start the game, or someone can veto in favor of a re-gen if their start sucks.  That would be a decent balance between randomizing a map catered to our nation list, and giving everyone a fair chance to test expansion.

The big issue here is that start positions seem to be more strictly defined on MapNuke than vanilla.  You can set generic starts, but our nations are pretty diverse - the only 2 nations who share starting region types are Agartha and Abysia, who both start in caves, so it would be pretty obvious who is where anyways.

If randomizing our start locations is important to anyone, I'd recommend we use the vanilla mapgen or a premade.  Any thoughts one way or the other?

My vote is just to accept what the rmg gives us and start playing and not keep waiting weeks for people everyone to be happy with a perfect starting position...
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 29, 2020, 12:27:51 PM
I think I like the idea of creating a MapNuke map, uploading it to DropBox for everyone to download and playtest for a period of time (1-2 weeks?) before we start the game, or someone can veto in favor of a re-gen if their start sucks.  That would be a decent balance between randomizing a map catered to our nation list, and giving everyone a fair chance to test expansion.

The big issue here is that start positions seem to be more strictly defined on MapNuke than vanilla.  You can set generic starts, but our nations are pretty diverse - the only 2 nations who share starting region types are Agartha and Abysia, who both start in caves, so it would be pretty obvious who is where anyways.

If randomizing our start locations is important to anyone, I'd recommend we use the vanilla mapgen or a premade.  Any thoughts one way or the other?

My vote is just to accept what the rmg gives us and start playing and not keep waiting weeks for people everyone to be happy with a perfect starting position...

I was thinking less "perfect starting positions for everybody" and more "nobody has total garbage starting positions," which admittedly is less common on MapNuke than vanilla.

Also, I wouldn't want anyone to feel like the person who made/uploaded the map has an unfair advantage.  Maybe giving it a week+ is overkill, but someone has to look at the map when it's generated, and I'd rather everyone has equal advantage in this regard than having 1 player who's seen the map.

If y'all don't think that's an issue, I'd be happy to just generate something and upload it without looking too closely at it.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 29, 2020, 04:01:06 PM
I'm fine with al_infierno generating a random map and doing a quick check of start locations locations to make sure there aren't any problems.
I'm ready to get this show on the road!
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 29, 2020, 06:51:37 PM
I'm fine with al_infierno generating a random map and doing a quick check of start locations locations to make sure there aren't any problems.
I'm ready to get this show on the road!

I totally agree. 

If Al_infierno is not comfortable doing that on his own though, I'm fine with everyone taking a quick look-see at the map before we begin.  I trust him, and the Mapnuke is pretty good at spawning maps, but I'd hate for him to feel overly pressured in making that decision on his own. 
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 30, 2020, 08:05:45 AM
Fine with me. Remember I need a cave. Roomy, but not too big. Dry, but with a nice river running through it and a rough-ish roof for the bats.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 30, 2020, 02:52:15 PM
You know, all caves doesn't sound too bad actually.  Atlantis approves!
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 30, 2020, 05:32:47 PM
 O0  Sounds good, will set it up tonight after work and get the Llamaserver going.
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 30, 2020, 08:07:48 PM
All right, generated a map and took a gander to make sure nobody had wonky starts (took a few gens to keep Vanheim from being sandwiched between oceans), but not long enough to remember anything.  ;)   The upload process is not very clear, but you just have to upload the TGA and the PNG (not the winter file) before you upload the MAP file.

The map is uploaded and you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Wkr0fuYpdb69ltGX2okLBJG2OuhkQCu/view?usp=sharing  (same download link is listed on the llamaserver listing for the map)

How are these settings?  I bumped up the throne count and AP requirement just a notch to account for having 7 instead of 6.  (Four 1-point thrones, Four 2-point thrones, 9 out of 12 points required to win.)  Happy to change the throne settings or add in a Level 3 throne if we want.

I'm considering enabling Lucid's Thematic Gem Gen to ease gem micromanagement a bit in the late game.  Any thoughts one way or the other?  I'm happy to do Vanilla too.

(https://i.imgur.com/3gWmUtT.png)
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 30, 2020, 10:11:02 PM
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=GrogsPrequel

Game is open for pretenders  :bd:  I can still change the above settings if there's any opinions one way or the other.


Game name: GrogsPrequel

Steps to submit your pretender

1. In the main menu, go to Tools and Manuals and create your pretender (Early Ages).
2. On the Tools... screen, click Open User Data Directory
3. Navigate down to savedgames > newlords, find your pretender file (by date is probably easiest), and attach it in an email to turns@llamaserver.net with the subject GrogsPrequel
4. Before your first turn, create a folder in savegames called GrogsPrequel
5. When the game starts, and every turn thereafter, you will get an email with a .trn file. Download the .trn file to the folder you just made.
6. After you end your turn, email the .2h file to the same email with the same subject.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on July 30, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
"3. Navigate down to savedgames > newlords, find your pretender file (by date is probably easiest), and attach it in an email to turns@llamaserver.net with the subject Grogsgame
4. Before your first turn, create a folder in savegames called Grogsgame"

Is this right? Shouldn't it be GrogsPrequel instead of Grogsgame?
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 30, 2020, 10:57:00 PM
Whoops!  Good catch, sorry I copy + pasted from last time!  ;D
Title: Re: (OPEN) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 31, 2020, 02:06:55 AM
All right, generated a map and took a gander to make sure nobody had wonky starts (took a few gens to keep Vanheim from being sandwiched between oceans), but not long enough to remember anything.  ;)   The upload process is not very clear, but you just have to upload the TGA and the PNG (not the winter file) before you upload the MAP file.

The map is uploaded and you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Wkr0fuYpdb69ltGX2okLBJG2OuhkQCu/view?usp=sharing  (same download link is listed on the llamaserver listing for the map)

How are these settings?  I bumped up the throne count and AP requirement just a notch to account for having 7 instead of 6.  (Four 1-point thrones, Four 2-point thrones, 9 out of 12 points required to win.)  Happy to change the throne settings or add in a Level 3 throne if we want.

I'm considering enabling Lucid's Thematic Gem Gen to ease gem micromanagement a bit in the late game.  Any thoughts one way or the other?  I'm happy to do Vanilla too.

(https://i.imgur.com/3gWmUtT.png)

Looks good! Let's do this!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 31, 2020, 02:10:41 AM
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=GrogsPrequel

Game is open for pretenders  :bd:  I can still change the above settings if there's any opinions one way or the other.


Game name: GrogsPrequel

Steps to submit your pretender

1. In the main menu, go to Tools and Manuals and create your pretender (Early Ages).
2. On the Tools... screen, click Open User Data Directory
3. Navigate down to savedgames > newlords, find your pretender file (by date is probably easiest), and attach it in an email to turns@llamaserver.net with the subject GrogsPrequel
4. Before your first turn, create a folder in savegames called GrogsPrequel
5. When the game starts, and every turn thereafter, you will get an email with a .trn file. Download the .trn file to the folder you just made.
6. After you end your turn, email the .2h file to the same email with the same subject.

I've always sent my pretenders to pretenders@llamaserver.net? Also did you mean to include a pic of the whole map and all locations?
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on July 31, 2020, 11:36:39 AM
Thanks for putting this together al_infienro

I will probably upload my pretender later on tonight.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 31, 2020, 12:45:35 PM

I've always sent my pretenders to pretenders@llamaserver.net? Also did you mean to include a pic of the whole map and all locations?

Both ways seem to work?  Whatever you did worked, as I see Abysia as a submitted pretender  O0

You mean the PNG in the zip file?  I assumed it was required for the map to run, but looking now it appears to just be a reference. 
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 31, 2020, 03:17:11 PM
Done and Done. 

Many thanks for putting the game together al_infierno.   Looking forward to squaring off with you all once again in the Dominions universe!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on July 31, 2020, 04:34:34 PM
Although it may be blindingly obvious to everyone, but FYI playtesting is possible by placing the map package in the Dominions 5 map folder and creating a new game.  AIs will be autogenned with the same nations that will be in our game.

Words can't describe my happiness at being wedged between TheMeinTeam and Aidjica again.    :bd:

GL everyone!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on July 31, 2020, 05:08:34 PM
Although it may be blindingly obvious to everyone, but FYI playtesting is possible by placing the map package in the Dominions 5 map folder and creating a new game.  AIs will be autogenned with the same nations that will be in our game.

Words can't describe my happiness at being wedged between TheMeinTeam and Aidjica again.    :bd:

GL everyone!

You're playing a good nation, but you're not playing a non-linear scaling nation with 9 forts before t24, so maybe the diplo will shake out a little differently this time!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on July 31, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Pretender submitted!

All praise The Number One Threat To America (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/f0uh68/the-colbert-report-threatdown---all-bear-edition), Lord of the Bears!

His Hibernatingness awaits your inevitable surrender of prime salmon-eating rivers.

Tanaka, in the last game we used Steam chat for diplomacy, though I know some prefer Discord. On steam I have the same username and avatar as here; while on discord I am:
Ajidica#9741
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on July 31, 2020, 06:56:51 PM
Pretender submitted.  Wait 'till you get a load of him!  haha
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 31, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
My steam username is al infierno, discord is 408Lurker#7084
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on July 31, 2020, 07:29:56 PM
And away we go!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on July 31, 2020, 10:32:08 PM

I've always sent my pretenders to pretenders@llamaserver.net? Also did you mean to include a pic of the whole map and all locations?

Both ways seem to work?  Whatever you did worked, as I see Abysia as a submitted pretender  O0

You mean the PNG in the zip file?  I assumed it was required for the map to run, but looking now it appears to just be a reference.

Yes it seems so! I see well I guess we all know the layout and locations so that's fair haha. Added those who game me your steam name!
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 01, 2020, 12:58:55 AM

I've always sent my pretenders to pretenders@llamaserver.net? Also did you mean to include a pic of the whole map and all locations?

Both ways seem to work?  Whatever you did worked, as I see Abysia as a submitted pretender  O0

You mean the PNG in the zip file?  I assumed it was required for the map to run, but looking now it appears to just be a reference.

Yes it seems so! I see well I guess we all know the layout and locations so that's fair haha. Added those who game me your steam name!

In case you missed the PM, my steam name is TheMeInTeam.  I'm friends with the others on Steam so you can find me that way too.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 01, 2020, 11:11:12 AM

I've always sent my pretenders to pretenders@llamaserver.net? Also did you mean to include a pic of the whole map and all locations?

Both ways seem to work?  Whatever you did worked, as I see Abysia as a submitted pretender  O0

You mean the PNG in the zip file?  I assumed it was required for the map to run, but looking now it appears to just be a reference.

Yes it seems so! I see well I guess we all know the layout and locations so that's fair haha. Added those who game me your steam name!

In case you missed the PM, my steam name is TheMeInTeam.  I'm friends with the others on Steam so you can find me that way too.

Yes I added you? My steam name is also Tanaka.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 01, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
I still don't see an invite.  Don't know what's going on, but I found you in the others' friend list and added you just now.  If you also don't see it we'll need to troubleshoot.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 01, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
Sorry about the turn 1 delay, guys. I had a teensy e-mail snafu. AF fixed it.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 09, 2020, 03:56:30 PM
I've learned something. Avoid playing two games at the same time on the same map. It really messes with your organizational memory-keeping.
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 09, 2020, 04:23:04 PM
I've learned that expanding like Germany in 1938 will earn me the Molotov Ribbentrop treatment from my neighbors. #:-)   :hide:
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 09, 2020, 05:19:54 PM
I've learned that expanding like Germany in 1938 will earn me the Molotov Ribbentrop treatment from my neighbors. #:-)   :hide:
Some things fall under the heading of "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". The human element keeps messing with all generals' plans. I don't have that problem. I've never "been able to."   :)
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on August 09, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
I've learned that expanding like Germany in 1938 will earn me the Molotov Ribbentrop treatment from my neighbors. #:-)   :hide:

That's well put and made me laugh.  Vanheim and Rus are akin to Germany and the USSR dividing up Poland. 
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 09, 2020, 11:53:58 PM
BTW guys, I am on the road again and playing these turns out on my new laptop! Everything is working fine so far. Sad that this relatively cheap laptop is better than my main desktop rig at home :)
Title: Re: (STARTING) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on August 11, 2020, 05:56:53 PM
I've learned that expanding like Germany in 1938 will earn me the Molotov Ribbentrop treatment from my neighbors. #:-)   :hide:

Been there, done that  ;D

Or, put another way, "All of this has happened before, and will happen again."

PS:  Still laughing about the Skeletons on the hat vid you posted in the last game!
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 11, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
Heh, I guess if there were a nation in the game with a rat's anus as it's banner, I'd feel like less of a bad guy :D

(Video in question for anyone who missed it in the other thread)

 
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on August 11, 2020, 06:48:39 PM
Mitchell and Webb had another great Nazi sketch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnyQXyuTGY


Nobody makes comedy laughing at the Nazis like the Brits, some other excellent ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8mJvQQRGUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Z6tv7cQmM

And in the interest of political fairness, SCTV's fake Soviet TV spots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXqKkYYALMU


No idea why embed isn't working for me.

Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 11, 2020, 08:17:10 PM
^ You have to click "Share" on Youtube to get the shortened link and add that into the [youtube] tags.  If you use the full address bar URL, it doesn't work right.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 12, 2020, 06:38:15 PM
Back home. Might get my turn out tonight. Curious to see messages.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 12, 2020, 06:40:15 PM
It sure didn't take long for this lot to devolve from "peace among nations" to "World War Ascension"  :crazy2:
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on August 12, 2020, 07:27:51 PM
It sure didn't take long for this lot to devolve from "peace among nations" to "World War Ascension"  :crazy2:
Reminds me of the staff motto at a model UN conference I worked at: "Diplomacy: It's Like Herding Cats With Access to Nuclear Weapons".
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 13, 2020, 01:09:13 PM
It sure didn't take long for this lot to devolve from "peace among nations" to "World War Ascension"  :crazy2:

The prophesy foretells of one that will bring back balance to the force...

 :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on August 13, 2020, 02:15:09 PM
...or join the sith.   ;D
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 13, 2020, 05:32:46 PM
I always felt the Jedi a little too cult-like, the Sith too self-destructive.  Perhaps it is time for another path.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on August 13, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
Or perhaps just a path.  Any path, at this point.   ;D
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 13, 2020, 07:39:28 PM
Sorry guys. Had a little problem pop up and had to have eye surgery today. Will try to get back on track Friday (tomorrow).
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 13, 2020, 07:42:52 PM
It sure didn't take long for this lot to devolve from "peace among nations" to "World War Ascension"  :crazy2:

The prophesy foretells of one that will bring back balance to the force...

 :uglystupid2:

"One-eye". A proper translation of the text clearly indicates the individual will have one eye.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 13, 2020, 08:03:26 PM
No worries solops, take your time and get well soon!  O0
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 13, 2020, 09:13:33 PM
That might be RPing Agartha a little too far.  Get well soon!
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on August 14, 2020, 08:01:14 AM
solops get well soon.  We'll still be here when you get back.   8)
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 19, 2020, 11:46:06 AM
Anyone know what happened to Solops? Been a few days...
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 19, 2020, 01:51:27 PM
Solops has been online a few times in other games on steam, but not for too long IIRC.  But yeah > 72h between turns is a little unusual unless something comes up.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 19, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
Looks like he hasn't been on Steam in the last 1-2 days, hope everything's all right.  I went ahead and extended the turn timer just in case.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 19, 2020, 06:06:29 PM
Sorry. Thought I had submitted. Will do so in a bit. My eyes are a bit messed up and I have to have a second surgery next week. I have not been able to do much gaming.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 19, 2020, 07:35:31 PM
Sorry. Thought I had submitted. Will do so in a bit. My eyes are a bit messed up and I have to have a second surgery next week. I have not been able to do much gaming.

Just glad you are ok!  :bd:
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on August 19, 2020, 07:38:24 PM
Sorry. Thought I had submitted. Will do so in a bit. My eyes are a bit messed up and I have to have a second surgery next week. I have not been able to do much gaming.

Just glad you are ok!  :bd:

+1
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on August 25, 2020, 05:03:30 PM
Anyone affected by the hurricanes? We may have family evacuating to stay with us.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on August 26, 2020, 12:08:55 PM
It mostly gave Florida a miss this time.  If they're coastal it's good they're evacuating, category 4 is no joke and the storm surge won't break records but it will be dangerous.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 26, 2020, 12:21:12 PM
Anyone affected by the hurricanes? We may have family evacuating to stay with us.

On the Florida Gulf Coast and everything has missed us luckily!
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on August 26, 2020, 11:08:40 PM
Anyone affected by the hurricanes? We may have family evacuating to stay with us.

Forget your turn again?   ;)
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on September 27, 2020, 09:07:09 PM
Good game guys! It was fun! Let's do it again sometime!  O0
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on September 27, 2020, 10:12:29 PM
Good game guys! It was fun! Let's do it again sometime!  O0

I take it your capital was taken this turn?  I have no idea what's going on as my spy network has been obliterated.   :D

Once this game's wrapped up, I'll fire up a thread for a new game.  Maybe Late Ages this time? 
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on September 28, 2020, 11:18:00 AM
I can say since Rus and probably others have eyes on it.  He was patrolling alongside PD this turn and got rainbow pretender + remaining army wiped, so it's either an empty or mostly empty cap fort under siege.  Only disconnected non-fort provinces otherwise, perfectly reasonable situation to go AI.

I'd be okay with late ages next, but this game is far from over.  I get that there's some concern I'd attempt a throne rush, but it's not realistic/not happening.  You need 9 of 12 points to win on thrones.  It's not realistic to get that many points by surprise, at least not until we're all running around with level 9 techs.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on September 28, 2020, 03:53:36 PM
GG Tanaka!  Definitely join us for the next one!

I'd be up for a LA game next, but as TMIT mentioned, methinks this one is going to drag on for a bit.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on September 28, 2020, 06:43:01 PM
I can say since Rus and probably others have eyes on it.  He was patrolling alongside PD this turn and got rainbow pretender + remaining army wiped, so it's either an empty or mostly empty cap fort under siege.  Only disconnected non-fort provinces otherwise, perfectly reasonable situation to go AI.

I'd be okay with late ages next, but this game is far from over.  I get that there's some concern I'd attempt a throne rush, but it's not realistic/not happening.  You need 9 of 12 points to win on thrones.  It's not realistic to get that many points by surprise, at least not until we're all running around with level 9 techs.

Correct. Nothing but a shell left. Let the battle of Rus and Atlantis begin!
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on September 29, 2020, 08:08:09 AM
I'm definitely up for a LA game next.  But first I need to figure out where I fit in our current game because it does look like it will continue for a while. 
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on October 12, 2020, 02:19:42 AM
GG Tanaka!  Definitely join us for the next one!

I'd be up for a LA game next, but as TMIT mentioned, methinks this one is going to drag on for a bit.

Will do! Just let me know when you guys finish! So what is the current update on this game? Want to know how it turns out!
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on October 14, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
^All Quiet on the Western Front.

The surviving players have so far not committed one way or the other to the final showdown.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on October 14, 2020, 01:44:11 PM
However, I AM threatening. Threatening lots of evil kingdoms. Lots.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on October 16, 2020, 02:54:39 PM
However, I AM threatening. Threatening lots of evil kingdoms. Lots.

I am taking this as sarcasm? Haha. Last I knew you were being sieged by Atlantis as I was.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on October 16, 2020, 02:55:33 PM
^All Quiet on the Western Front.

The surviving players have so far not committed one way or the other to the final showdown.

Well that is interesting indeed...
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on October 16, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
However, I AM threatening. Threatening lots of evil kingdoms. Lots.

I am taking this as sarcasm? Haha. Last I knew you were being sieged by Atlantis as I was.

I did not detect a single, slightest, maybiest bit of sarcasm in that post.  Nope.  Never.   O:-)
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on October 16, 2020, 07:25:11 PM
According to my scouts Agartha is going to elf somewhere between 30 and 50 provinces within a few turns.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: solops on October 16, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
According to my scouts Agartha is going to elf somewhere between 30 and 50 provinces within a few turns.

Damn, they are on to me. YES!!! I have subcontracted the massive elf campaign out to a crack group called the Keebler Corporation. Their presentation was awesome and the Cave Command expects several nations to sue for peace shortly.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on October 17, 2020, 06:46:12 AM
At the glacial pace of our current game, we may just need to get another one going...
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Tanaka on October 17, 2020, 02:51:39 PM
At the glacial pace of our current game, we may just need to get another one going...

Yeah just let me get things stirred up again!  >:D
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on January 20, 2021, 07:23:45 PM
How's this game coming along?  I see only Arco, Atlantis, Rus, and Van remain in the ring.
Title: Re: (IN PROGRESS) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on January 20, 2021, 08:05:41 PM
We decided to call it rather than continue it this morning.  Ajidica asked to find a sub, but this late it'd probably be hard to find one and barring shenanigans the game was likely to grind on for a long time as Arco and I traded blows/resource damage with a massive tech gap over Rus/Van.

I'd be up to begin anew, though IMO we should use clockwork rather than llamaserver, it's been a lot more convenient in other games.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on January 20, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Sounds good to me.  If nobody has any objections I'll go ahead and close the server on llamaserver tomorrow.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on January 21, 2021, 08:53:34 AM
I'm ok with closing this game out however it was really a great game.  I don't mind times when a game stretches out over a long period of time. 

In the end we had two clear superpowers, one medium power, and then tiny me left. 

Good game boys!!
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on January 21, 2021, 09:40:19 AM
Good game all! 

My point of view post-mortem:

Going in, and seeing I was going to be sandwiched between Aijidica and TMiT, I knew I was in for a wild ride.  I went in knowing that Arco does just fine as a turtling nation, so I would be very picky about if/when I got involved in any major wars.  Unfortunately, I believe I missed some opportunities and exercised poor judgement on occasion.

It's a balancing effect in Dominions diplomacy, as one needs to expand and project power, but should one come across as too far ahead, you get attacked by a coalition, and on the other hand, one could be in a very even war, but a neighbor will take advantage of it and pose a threat to an exposed flank.  So it was with trepidation (too much trepidation) that I decided to engage. 

I had a decent enough expansion, was able to win a few provinces via diplomacy, but missed a huge opportunity when I didn't invade Abysia.  I had the troops and the mages to overcome Abysia's strengths.  Instead, I decided to try and start a way overly optimistic war vs Rus, hoping to take advantage of the his distraction with Ctis.  He warned me that it would be a poor decision and only help Atlantis, but I didn't listen.  Within a couple of turns of fighting, and watching Atlantis start to completely swallow Abysia and Agartha, I realized the foolishness of my way.  The war vs Rus would be a horrible grind, and Atlantis would continue to grow. 

So I held off for a coalition of me and Rus to take on Atlantis.  I could have attacked Atlantis earlier, but was concerned that if the fight went too well, or too poorly, Rus would move into an alliance with Atlantis instead, and I would be screwed.  So I played the diplomatic waiting game again.  The only way this was a tenable strategy was due to my pretty massive research advantage.  I was also able to secure all the elemental royalty, but neglected the globals, which gave Atlantis yet another advantage.

The war with Atlantis was the grind I expected, but progress was being made.  Unfortunately, we won't know who would have won.  There was some pretty epic battles coming up for the 2 thrones, which would have been pretty decisive.  Nuclear style spells such as Black Death and Fires from Afar were about to be launched at each other, along with other crazy mayhem.     

It was a pleasure playing with everyone, and there were many possibilities still left open.  Vanheim jumping into the fray vs Rus opened up a lot of different tactical and strategic possibilities as to how the game may have ended up.  My 2 take ways are trying to be a little more decisive when it comes to aggression, and not forget about the globals....
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on January 21, 2021, 05:18:50 PM
The war against Agartha was mismanaged, and since he did his part well after initial bad expansion very costly to me.  If I knew what I know now I would definitely have had size 6 water elementals, antimagic (ESPECIALLY antimagic!) and quickness going when I attacked rather than later rather than going for acid plays.  I might have just attacked Abysia first instead too once I realized he wasn't doing big fire elementals/only had 1 fort.

My RP was only at like 400-500 near turn 40, I only got back in the game by blowing something like 180 fire gems (many with hammers, I made a LOT!) on lanterns and giving them to every mage that wasn't fighting, vaulting me to > 3k RP over the 10 or so turns after Agartha war ended.  Hitting me before I got to make up so much research time would have made it harder for me to react.  The one thing I managed not to do against Agartha was lose a significant number of mages, so given that time I could at least hit passable tech in the time I was given.

Abysia was much less costly, it took him too long to counter the basalt king raiding + park on cap (cutting off all other income, Abysia needed more forts).  By the time he could kick that away I just sent in a water elemental army to finish the job.

Rus probably switches sides if I lost two thrones, and if I held them launching a counter offensive would be no less costly for me than it was for Arco to push me.  Depending on what happened on Rus throne fight (still unresolved!), I might have been able to push Rus alongside Vanheim while trying to lose less ground/inflict more attrition with Arco.  This definitely influenced my vote to call it though...Rus would be more or less forced to side with whoever was winning between us until such a point as Rus itself had the tech to force a change to that.  Which would be greatly delayed by Vanheim's hit. 

I think if it came down to just resource grinding/pop killing spells, I had something of an advantage due to globals giving gem econ and having all paths searched 2+ (including some vampire lord blood econ firing up).  I had remote searched death/astral to 9 everywhere, had voice of tiamat in all water provinces, and had at least 1 nature everywhere too.  But doing pop kill spells and grinding out gem armies would take so long even cataclysm might be decisive before it (those can destroy thrones).

GG all, it was a hard-fought game.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: W8taminute on January 22, 2021, 07:04:12 AM
Yes this was a hard fought game but as such there was a lot to learn here.  This particular multiplayer game we played demonstrated that Dominions can be a real slog fest if all the players involved are equally matched as far as knowledge of the game goes. 

We all used every scrap of knowledge to try to either hang in there or at least engage in a see-saw war.  Although the game dragged on it was really fun in the matching wits against wits respect.  No regrets and again GG everyone.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: TheMeInTeam on January 22, 2021, 11:50:57 PM
I wanted the last turn to roll before ending the game :(.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: al_infierno on January 22, 2021, 11:57:55 PM
Oops, my bad... I didn't think ajidica was planning on putting in his turn  :-\
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Ajidica on January 23, 2021, 10:34:06 AM
TMIT was interested in seeing how well his army would do against mine in a throne battle.
It would not have gone well for me as I didn't really have an answer to darkness.

Sorry again everyone for how I kept dragging on turn submissions. Late game Dominions always paralyzes me with choices, so "sit and think on it" becomes "wait and hope a light of insight will strike me".

After talking with TMIT last night a bit, it seems like I had some unfortunate luck with magic sites. Despite searching everything with minimum air2/mostly air3, I was only taking in 14 air gems/turn.
Title: Re: (FINISHED) Grogspocalypse Prequel: Early Ages Boogaloo [Dominions 5]
Post by: Myrmidon on January 23, 2021, 03:34:22 PM
TMIT was interested in seeing how well his army would do against mine in a throne battle.
It would not have gone well for me as I didn't really have an answer to darkness.

Sorry again everyone for how I kept dragging on turn submissions. Late game Dominions always paralyzes me with choices, so "sit and think on it" becomes "wait and hope a light of insight will strike me".

After talking with TMIT last night a bit, it seems like I had some unfortunate luck with magic sites. Despite searching everything with minimum air2/mostly air3, I was only taking in 14 air gems/turn.

Most of my gem incomes were in the low to mid teens as well. It was a bit of a bottleneck...  It was one of the reasons I was I spent most of my gems on the summons and forging,  I didn't want to potentially waste them on a dispelled global... but then again, if the global is left alone, it pays for itself really quick.