GrogHeads Forum

Digital Gaming => Ally/Opponent Finder => Dominions III LFG and Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: parone on June 10, 2013, 12:24:24 PM

Title: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 10, 2013, 12:24:24 PM
Middle Age
turn interval 24 hours to begin/ generous delays if needed/interval increased as we go
diplo: allowed/Machiavellian(probably spelled incorrectly)
trades:binding
roleplaying: encouraged
mods: current cbm possibly assimilation
interval: 28 hours to start, please request extensions as far out as possible(i work a lot), interval will be increased later in the game

Game Settings
Independent Strength - 7
Research - default
Magic Sites - default
Money - default
Resources - default
Supplies - Default
Random Events- Default (which is Common)
Re-naming - on
Score Graphs - off
Hall Of Fame - 15


map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=804192

Commitment-HIGH(this means, you should be willing to try and get your turns in, and keep playing even if you lose a few big battles.  in fact, try to make yourself a pain in the arse right till the end)[b

ParOne-Kalaisa
Phobos-Jotunheim
W8aminute-Vanheim
Haerdalas-Tien Chi
WingedFlames-Shinnuyama
Faux-Agartha
Bronwell-Pangea
Ogrim-C'tis
Tygaros-Machaka
alastair-Pythium
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 10, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
Can I try a mod nation?

If not, pencil me in for a random nation assignment, as I want to try something different.  My most time consuming game is starting to wind down, so I should have the free time available.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 10, 2013, 05:02:13 PM
i wasn't planning on mod nations, phobos.

who have you played so far?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 10, 2013, 05:41:43 PM
Played Sauromatia in a 'victory by capital' game.  Could not prevent the front-runner from winning.

Played Machaka, spent my money on forts instead of a massive army.  Got jumped by 3 nations before the majority of my fort construction completed.  Lost around turn 30.  Took someone with me.

Playing Shinuyama in groghammer.  Downward spiral, but have plenty of fight left.

Playing Fomoria in another game.  Have giants, will travel.  Fighting multiple nations since first year.  Remaining nations attempting to prevent victory.

Playing Bogarus in A Dominion of Grogs.

Playing Pangaea in Dawn of the Grog.

I am happy to play a random nation.  I don't mind a dud pick, as I have some multiplayer experience.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 10, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
WOW that is a lot of games!!!!

you sure you wanna get in another?  once you get a few in the midgame, you'll be swamped.

if you do, i'll roll you a MA on the randomizer


Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 10, 2013, 06:05:13 PM
I am currently playing 4 games.  That will be down to 2 soon enough, maybe another fortnight.  My late-game strat with Fomoria is brute-force and does not require a lot of fiddly work, maybe 10 minutes every 48 hours.  I spend that amount of time, or less on the other games I am playing, not counting diplomacy.  I am not currently playing Starcraft or AoE and I am taking a break from Dark Souls, so I have the free time.

With all that in mind, I don't mind taking on a new game.  By the time this one starts and gets complicated, I am 90% sure I'll be down to 2 other games.  On a 48 hour schedule, that is easy enough to manage.   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 10, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
par one?

lmao - ive had you down as parone (pronounced paronni (italian)) since you joined

made me smile

good luck with the game
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 04:14:31 AM
that's funny.  par one was a race horse-a world champion standardbred.  i think he was from deleware, though, not italy :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 11:11:46 AM
ok phobos.  i'll roll you a nation later.

although, this game appears to be pretty lukewarm...

that's ok.  if we only end up with a few players, the games tend to move along more briskly
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 11, 2013, 01:04:52 PM
although, this game appears to be pretty lukewarm...

If I didn't already have three games on the go I'd have jumped in!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 11, 2013, 01:16:36 PM
...I am taking a break from Dark Souls, so I have the free time.

Did someone say Dark Souls?  Now that's a great game and always good to bump into a fellow Hollow!  :)


What platform do you play on?  I'm on XBOX 360.

Back on topic:

I'm interested in playing if there is room.  I will continue playing even if my position ultimately ends up hopeless as I respect that other committed players like myself want to see the game to completion.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 01:22:41 PM
glad to have you w8, select a faction?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
also, i posted this game on desura, to perhaps jazz up a player or two
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 11, 2013, 01:38:11 PM
glad to have you w8, select a faction?

Cool thanks!  I'd like to take Vanheim if I may.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on June 11, 2013, 02:14:33 PM
Excellent. I always like to see new Dom3 games forming up.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 11, 2013, 02:52:35 PM
Hi everyone, Im new here, been playing Dom3 a bit, but only SP.  I have CB1.92 and Assimilation 1.1.  Are those the correct mods?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 11, 2013, 03:01:51 PM
OK, I have no experience what so ever in Multiplayer or Middle age. I have however played several singleplayer games until it was obvious I had won / I made a stupid mistake and got crushed by 800 Formorian giants (less of those as time went on, thankfully). Could I play, or am I too inexperience for this game?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 11, 2013, 04:27:59 PM
Woo, more forum members!  Welcome to Grogheads, chaps.  When you're settled in, don't forget to check out the other forums!

Have a great game. :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 05:03:37 PM
wingedflame: i believe the most recent cbm is 1.94-your assimilation mod is correct, however.

haerdalas: there is no basement here.  i have played a bunch of games, and am no newb, but have never won(i stink, in other words)  if you'd like to play, your welcome, as long as you are committed to making a reasonable effort.

both of you gentlemen, feel free to select your nations.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 05:06:49 PM
if you don't have the mods yet, you may want to download them and play some SP with them(and whatever nation you plan to use) to make sure they are installed properly.  sometimes that's a bit tricky(especially for those as technically challenged as i am)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 11, 2013, 05:36:41 PM
Thanks, I have been looking for a MP game to join for about 2 weeks now. Singleplayer got a bit boring for me due to being a small bit easy past early game - I always got to Construction 8 first, and then just made an SC with all the best items in the game. I win. I want a challenge, which, from the sounds of it, multiplayer certainly will be. I do not fear failure and endless defeat... which is, I think, a good thing, especially considering the game name. Death and glory and death, or something.

Thanks for letting me play. I may take a few days to pick a nation and check it out, if that is alright. I am fairly busy tomorrow and the day after, but should be pretty much completely free after that (Exams nearly over)

also, Dark Souls rules! PC here though...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 11, 2013, 06:21:16 PM
you are most welcome heraldas-we have nothing but time.  pick your nation and tweak your build
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 11, 2013, 08:56:45 PM
Put me down for Shinuyama please.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 12, 2013, 02:26:46 AM
Tentatively, put my down for Tien Chi please, though I still need to test them.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 12, 2013, 03:38:27 AM
guys, those are both great nations, but both are tough on new players(shin uses lots of summons, TC generally requires a player who can manage communions).  you are welcome to stick with them or try something else.  but i will reserve them for you unless you change your mind.

i'll probably not be Ulm in this game.  they are the nation i am best with, and with new players, that isn't right.  i'll wait until everyone picks their nation, and then pick from what's left.  so Ulm is back on the table.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 12, 2013, 03:46:28 AM
Hello! Just created an account because the Dominions community seems pretty active in here and this particular game seems good for a beginner like me. I've never played MP but I do have a fair bit of SP experience with the different nations, although late game is still a bit of a mystery to me.

Anyway, I'd like to play Agartha.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 12, 2013, 05:28:21 AM
your in
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 12, 2013, 05:31:59 AM
Btw can I use Llamabeast's banner mod or is everyone required to have it installed? It's just a graphical mod but I've no idea how it actually works in MP.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 12, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
Thanx for the warning. Leave them reserved for me right now I like the initial look of them. But I haven't finished m looking over them yet. Should be able to finish that tonight and give a better answer this evening.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 12, 2013, 07:16:36 AM
Btw can I use Llamabeast's banner mod or is everyone required to have it installed? It's just a graphical mod but I've no idea how it actually works in MP.

Afaik any graphic mod is just your side of the server it doesn't effect the game or anyone else
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 12, 2013, 10:09:45 AM
I am liking Tien chi so far... but my first game with them almost had to be restarted after about 6 turns. I had the most ridiculously stupid bad luck. 2 turns running bad events on my capital, first time 25 Knights turned up and took over the countryside, halting my unit production. 2nd time, my only temple was destroyed before I actually got around to building any priests. I know misfortune 3 can be risky, but this was with order 3... what the hell!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 12, 2013, 10:10:04 AM
sorry, double posted by accident. is there any way to delete this post?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 12, 2013, 10:17:58 AM
I am liking Tien chi so far... but my first game with them almost had to be restarted after about 6 turns. I had the most ridiculously stupid bad luck. 2 turns running bad events on my capital, first time 25 Knights turned up and took over the countryside, halting my unit production. 2nd time, my only temple was destroyed before I actually got around to building any priests. I know misfortune 3 can be risky, but this was with order 3... what the hell!

Wait till you get Bogus & co in your capital in the first few turns :D. I once had them show up before turn 10 or so. Misfortune can be perfectly manageable but I don't personally like it very much. Maybe because I'm not very good.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 12, 2013, 10:56:50 AM
yeah, I quite often play with misfortune, particularly when playing with order scales. This was exceptionally bad. I am about 3 turns beyond that now, still have yet to get my Scout-prophet back to rebuild the temple, and just had a barbarian horde in one province, Trodlydytes in another, and another lot of knights next to my capital. It is insane. PD makes no difference to these things - the first group of knights burnt through 30 points of of PD in my capital and took /1 casualty/. one.

Seriously, can you be cursed as a player? I would prefer bogus to this! at least them I could just avoid that one province or something, this is ridiculous. Hopefully the MP game goes a bit better...

To cap it all off, I am being attacked by both of my neighbours. Joy. Next time, my pretender can be imprisoned, I dont care, i just want to be able to hold my provinces.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 12, 2013, 11:38:59 AM
Welcome to Grogheads, Faux!  Enjoy the game! :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 12, 2013, 12:56:05 PM
I'd like to join this game.  Still debating what nation I want to play and will post that later today.

For what it's worth, I've played single player Dominions for years, back to Dominions II, but only started my first multiplayer a little over a month ago.  Currently still alive at turn 35, but likely going to be killed off by one of the big two players in the not too distant future.  This game gave me some idea how badly you can be hosed by sites.  Site searched all my 20+ sites for nature, astral and holy in first 2 years to provide a whopping 1 astral gem, +1 nature gem income which just doomed my transition to mid/late game.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 12, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
many of you are talking about exceptionally bad luck, which has hit all of us at one time or another.  it is extremely irritating when it cripples you in MP, but hey, that's why MP is fun-everything seems important.

bronwell, welcome.  take your time selecting your build/nation.  but of course, i must say, first come, first serve.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 12, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Welcome to Grogheads, Bronwell!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 13, 2013, 07:04:24 AM
Ok. I am going to try shinyu. They may be difficult. But I think I have a decent enough handle on how they work.

I was also wondering. The hist time is set for 24 hours. Is that going to be 24 hours or until everyone submits? And then 24 hours after that.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on June 13, 2013, 07:25:02 AM
Hey there, I'd like to join the game with R'lyeh, if the map you'll choose supports Underwater Nations. This would be my second Dominions MP game, while the first one is currently in turn 13 (so I'm a totally new player).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Ogrims on June 13, 2013, 07:26:17 AM
Hi. I would like to join the game with C'tis. This would be my first MP game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 13, 2013, 12:09:43 PM
I think I've tentatively decided to try Pangaea.  I've never tried MA Pan even in SP so I am going to try some quick test runs at SP to confirm the choice.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 13, 2013, 02:32:48 PM
Welcome to Grogheads, chaps!  I hope you enjoy the game! :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 13, 2013, 02:41:20 PM
time to make dinner, but i'll check in back here later tonight.  i think we got 2 or three new players? 


we are dangerously close to having enough to try to set the game up.

ok folks, make sure you have downloaded the latest CBM (1.94?)  and assimilation mod.

get your pretenders set up and ready to submit.

i'll try and figure out an appropriate map tonight.

Tygaros:  any chance you could choose a non-water nation?  generally water nations are not great in newbie-type games, and especially frowned upon if there is only one water nation(and you would be the only one, i believe)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on June 13, 2013, 04:02:06 PM
yeah, no problem, just give me a day to decide which one that will be. One question, is the Assimilation 1.1 I found here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46696 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46696) the latest version or am I missing something?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 13, 2013, 04:14:08 PM
yes, i that is where i downloaded it, i believe.  thank you for posting the link, that should make it easier for others to grab it.  obviously, it is version 1.1
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 13, 2013, 05:18:51 PM
Thanks for the link Tygaros.  Any other mods that need to be dl'ed for this PBEM?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 13, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
Here's the latest CBM: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=998

Btw, is the Assimilation mod on llamaserver version 1.0 like it says? The latest version seems to be 1.1.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 13, 2013, 05:46:33 PM
hmm.  not sure about the assimilation question...

phobos:  your random nation rolled out to be jotunheim.

if you don't like that pick, i rolled again and you got machaka.

feel free to grab either of those, or go with something else if they don't tickle your fancy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 13, 2013, 06:03:10 PM
also, im thinking plane of rustynails V4 might be a good map, particularly if we can get one more player(it has 9 balanced starts).

played on this before, and this map has no problems.  it was balanced by callahan, who, despite constantly ass-whoopin me in the forums, is possibly the greatest living dominions genius(especially when it come to figuring things out/fixing them)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 13, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
ok, thanks.  I'll take a look at Jotunheim and see what I can come up with.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 13, 2013, 08:37:19 PM
OK I think I have my Pretender narrowed down to 1 of two builds.  How do I submit that?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Beelzeboss on June 14, 2013, 01:57:12 AM
To send in your pretender you have to send a mail to pretenders@llamaserver.net with the pretender file attached. You can find the file in your dominions 3 folder under savedgames -> newlords. The subject of the mail should be the name of the game you want to join.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 14, 2013, 02:24:43 AM
To send in your pretender you have to send a mail to pretenders@llamaserver.net with the pretender file attached. You can find the file in your dominions 3 folder under savedgames -> newlords. The subject of the mail should be the name of the game you want to join.

Basically this.

Check http://www.llamaserver.net/ for Games waiting for pretenders. When you see this particular game on that list, copy the name (e.g. World_of_Groghawk, another game running on this forum) and paste it to the subject field of your email. Then just attach the pretender file for your nation from dominions3/savedgames/newlords/ and send the mail. I'm pretty sure  parone will announce in this thread when the game is ready to accept pretenders.

Also a reminder for everyone: remember to have CBM enabled when you create your pretender. Otherwise there will be mismatches.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 14, 2013, 03:42:28 AM
I think I can confirm i will play Tien Chi. No idea how they will stand up against other people in MP, but I seem to be having success with them in SP at least.

Also, for those new to MP like me, I found the second post on this page  http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5981.0   to have a very clear guide on how to get your pretender in, how to send your turns in etc.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 14, 2013, 03:52:16 AM
also, im thinking plane of rustynails V4 might be a good map, particularly if we can get one more player(it has 9 balanced starts).

Don't we have 9 now? 8 names in the OP + Tygaros who hasn't been updated to the roster yet. Map looks good.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 14, 2013, 05:14:43 AM
gotta put in a 14 hour day today, but will try to get game up on llamaserver saturday.

looks like we are actually gonna get this to go!!

listen, since everyone is new and i tend to be a technical simpleton, we are bound to have a few technical difficulties getting started.  no worries, if we stay at it, we'll get it done.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 14, 2013, 05:23:03 AM
Sounds good parone.  Thanks for setting this up for us all.  If there is anything I can do to help I will.  Let us know if you run into any difficulties.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 14, 2013, 02:41:11 PM
Hi.  I last played Dom3 in 2008 or so.  I've played before, mostly with my brother, although I played for him on multi games in shrapnel sometimes.  I got a hankering to play it, and followed this link from Desura (which i arrived at from old shrapnel forums).  Still room?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on June 14, 2013, 05:31:05 PM
I think I'll go with Machaka
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 14, 2013, 08:06:00 PM
I can't get a working download link off of shrapnel forums :(

if I can still join, I'd like to try Agartha, please.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 15, 2013, 12:19:26 AM
Downloads from Shrapnel seem to work just  fine as I type this. What kind of an error do you get?

Agartha is already taken. You can see the list of picked nations in the first post and of course by reading this thread.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 15, 2013, 09:23:18 AM
Its back up. Can I have Abysia? Pythium?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 15, 2013, 12:18:38 PM
hey folks. never got home from work last night, and now have to run to a graduation.

will look things over when i get home.  alistair, i'll see if i can find a 10 player map(anyone is free to suggest).

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 15, 2013, 01:07:33 PM
I recommend the map- Realm of Roaring Rhinos.  It's a wraparound by Elmokki, the creator of Plane of Rusty Nails.  I haven't played on it, but see in the list I have downloaded.  I have no idea if there is a version with balanced starts but it's roughly the right size (169 incl 16 water as compared to Nails having 143 with 12 sea).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 15, 2013, 03:00:24 PM
How many provinces/person do we want to start with?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 15, 2013, 03:09:05 PM
How many provinces/person do we want to start with?

I'd imagine one since it's pretty much the norm.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 15, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
Sorry I meant ratio on map.  So 150 provinces/10 players= 15:1.  I think 18 is standard, though not sure.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 16, 2013, 03:37:11 AM
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=804192

ok, i have no idea if copying/pasting that link is gonna work for you guys.

this is the realm of roaring rhino map with 11 fixed land starts.  this was the link on llama.   lets see if we can all get this map(the download is tga only, which is all you will need.

note:  you must have the version that specifically mentions 11 fixed land starts.  i'll check one more place to see if i can find a better link.

alastair, i think this means you are in.  i was going to be pythium!!!  no worries though, go ahead and make a pretender for them, i'll switch to kalaisa/bandar.  i really just wanted to try an astral nation, and the monkeys are good at that, too.

got another killer day coming up, so i wont be able to check in until late tonight.  next 4 days after this, though, should be reasonable, so i hope i can put more than 10 minutes a day into making this go.

folks, if we can all get cbm, assimilation mod, and this map, and we all have pretenders made up, i think we are going to try and take a shot at getting this big old bird off the ground.

remmember please:  this is a high commitment game, even though it is newbie-esque.  this means you should really try to get your turns in, and also means no quitting if things go bad(fight to the last man!)

alright, will check back later(much later :-\)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 16, 2013, 03:37:50 AM
ps, link seemed to work.  let me know if you have any problems
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 16, 2013, 03:47:21 AM
PPS

Game is up on llama!!!  it is called DOOOM(has to be 5 letters, apparently)

used cbm194 and assimilation middle aged version.

will post links later if you have trouble.

ok, gotta scoot
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 16, 2013, 04:24:47 AM
Don't forget that when you submit your pretenders (found in the savedgames/newlords directory) the subject of your email has to exactly match the name of the game.

Have fun, guys!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on June 16, 2013, 08:41:27 AM
Sorry I meant ratio on map.  So 150 provinces/10 players= 15:1.  I think 18 is standard, though not sure.
The game itself considers small/medium/large games to be 10/15/20 provs per player. So 8 players would mean an 80 prov map is a small game and a 160 prov map would be a large game.

The number of provs greatly affect some nations being able to use their built-in abilities effectively.

Also, the more provs per player, the better the start positions that the game can give.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 16, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Nevermind this post, I actually did something called reading and answered the question I just asked.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 16, 2013, 11:05:04 AM
As a quick how-to submit, since I had trouble with that:
 Create your pretender in gametools: Create a pretender. 

This will create a file in dominions3/savedgames/newlords 

Attach that file to an email titled DOOOM addressed to pretenders[at]llamaserver[dot]net

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 16, 2013, 11:18:44 AM
For diplomacy, what is the prefered method? Is there an established IRC channel like SA uses. Or should we all just find our own ways of communicating?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: ScottWAR on June 16, 2013, 12:00:33 PM
I would join,...but my experience with diplomacy in the groghammer game means I will never join another game with open diplomacy. Several people teaming up to take out everyone else is neither fair nor fun.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 16, 2013, 12:02:56 PM
IRC would be great but that might be a bit hard since there are people from different timezones. I'm fine with ingame messages, PMs and this thread for public discussion.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 16, 2013, 01:11:14 PM
I would join,...but my experience with diplomacy in the groghammer game means I will never join another game with open diplomacy. Several people teaming up to take out everyone else is neither fair nor fun.

I'd imagine that tends to happen if you're in a bad spot and others perceive you as an easy target -- especially if you're playing with more experienced players. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're ganging up on you.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 16, 2013, 01:41:42 PM
I'm not an expert on diplomacy. But from what I have seen it also happens that a misunderstanding can lead to multiple people attacking at the same time with no coordination.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 16, 2013, 02:13:33 PM
OK then. I have sent off my pretender, and downloaded the map. However, having never played MP Dominions before, could I just confirm that the map is just downloaded and transferred to the desura/common/dominions-3-the-awakening/maps folder.

Update: just received an email saying my pretender had been received by the server, so that eems to be working.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 16, 2013, 02:25:12 PM
Remember to make sure you have the mods active before you design your pretenders - if they're not switched on the gods of dom III will change your set up when you send them in
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 16, 2013, 04:23:04 PM
CBM 1.94 and Assimilation 1.1 right? I am pretty sure I had them active
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 16, 2013, 05:52:08 PM
I don't want to play either if all this game is going to degenerate to is a gang of players beating up all the noobs.

I'm a noob when it comes to this game.  ARe you all noobs or are you super gods with unstoppable spamming horror?  I'm not playing a game where some loser is going to spam his way to victory.  Sorry but I'm looking for a game where I'm on equal footing with everyone.  Count me out.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 16, 2013, 06:00:57 PM
I'm pretty sure only a few people have any MP experience. And the ones who do have very little.  My MP experience comes from reading let's plays from SA.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 16, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
SP only here with a bit of reading through guides. No actual MP experience here. I think ParOne probably has the most and he seemed to say he was intermediate at best. There may be ganging up - that's down to the players, but if it does occur it will likely be noob versus noob.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: ScottWAR on June 16, 2013, 07:21:48 PM
I would join,...but my experience with diplomacy in the groghammer game means I will never join another game with open diplomacy. Several people teaming up to take out everyone else is neither fair nor fun.

I'd imagine that tends to happen if you're in a bad spot and others perceive you as an easy target -- especially if you're playing with more experienced players. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're ganging up on you.


Ah,,....let me clear this up. I was never jumped on,...in both my games here I was lucky enough to be in a place where only one player was a threat to me early. BUT,....I know how games with teaming up is allowed go. At some point, a group of people will form that allies together almost every game. It will be impossible for anyone outside this group to win.

  It has not happened to me,...and I hold no ill will towards anyone,....I just don't like games where being in a clique is a requirement to have a chance. And Im not saying that is the case here,...but it will develop over time if it hasn't already.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 02:16:01 AM
hmm. 

diplo is obviously a fickle mistress.  but a game with diplo is not necessarily a game where there is going to be a super alliance. 

W8, we have specifically selected a map with the correct number of sights for our players.  you are now quiting because there is a chance someone might have allies in the game?  or because someone might spam horrors?  i don't think there is even a blood nation in this game(i think you need blood for the spell call horrors, but i might be wrong).  that seems kind of silly.

please confirm your status in or out of this game, please.

folks, if w8 is in, we will continue on this map.  if not, i'll probably have to reasses and find us a different map and recreate the game.  you should be able to use the pretenders you have already created-they are saved in your pretender file.

we'll wait for...w8.  haha.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 02:50:58 AM
I don't want to play either if all this game is going to degenerate to is a gang of players beating up all the noobs.

I'm a noob when it comes to this game.  ARe you all noobs or are you super gods with unstoppable spamming horror?  I'm not playing a game where some loser is going to spam his way to victory.  Sorry but I'm looking for a game where I'm on equal footing with everyone.  Count me out.

Judging by the comments in this thread it seems most players are new to this game, or atleast multiplayer. I for example have never played in a MP game before.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 17, 2013, 03:12:50 AM

W8, we have specifically selected a map with the correct number of sights for our players.  you are now quiting because there is a chance someone might have allies in the game?

i think hes referring to the possibility of 3, 4 or more nations all agreeing not to attack each other and then collectively deciding to attack other nations one by one

theres nothing wrong with an alliance of 2 meeting nations at their borders and agreeing to peace or one asking for the help of the other, but when a collective of nations agree to all out attack nation 1, then nation 2 then nation 3 - some people have preferred not to play these games
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 03:57:29 AM

W8, we have specifically selected a map with the correct number of sights for our players.  you are now quiting because there is a chance someone might have allies in the game?

i think hes referring to the possibility of 3, 4 or more nations all agreeing not to attack each other and then collectively deciding to attack other nations one by one

theres nothing wrong with an alliance of 2 meeting nations at their borders and agreeing to peace or one asking for the help of the other, but when a collective of nations agree to all out attack nation 1, then nation 2 then nation 3 - some people have preferred not to play these games

Fixed alliances like this shouldn't exist and are lame indeed. To me they sound like a fine opportunity to just backstab someone.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 17, 2013, 04:32:50 AM
folks, if w8 is in, we will continue on this map.  if not, i'll probably have to reasses and find us a different map and recreate the game.  you should be able to use the pretenders you have already created-they are saved in your pretender file.

we'll wait for...w8.  haha.

I'm in.  I was just ranting about finding a game with equal peers.  It sounds like that is the case here.  Although I would rather prefer not to engage in diplomacy if the situation later in this game is such that diplo negotiations are needed that is fine.   :)

What about trade?  Is everyone here comfortable with trading gems and items with each other?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 04:43:41 AM
As long as trade agreements are binding I don't mind.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 17, 2013, 04:50:23 AM
^Agreed.  I'm an honest trader.  I know that some  players like to scam people in trades.  Not only is that kind of behavior pointless in this game but it's just tasteless.  Fighting should be done on the battlefield with armies not in the courtroom with lawyers and admins because some twit decided to scam someone in a trade.  Scamming is just plain filthy.



In other news:  I have sent my pretender in to llamaserver so I should be good to go!   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 04:52:16 AM
i agree with the game long fixed alliance/joint victory thing.  i think that's a nono, and not fair to other players.  if i think somebody has put that in place, you bet your fanny im going to try to assemble an alliance against them.  but hey, that's all part of diplo.

also, another nono IMO, is pre game alliances, so i hope nobody is engaging in that.

trade/diplo is however you want to do it.  you can use in game messaging or PM people here on grogheads.

while all diplo is caveat-emptor(lie and cheat all you want, but of course, people tend to remmember that stuff), i ask that people fullfill their trades.  if one party agrees to send gems for items, please fulfill your end of the bargain.

W8, i must tell you though, that diplomacy is pretty important.  i am admittedly an intermediate player(albeit a really, really shitty one) in amongst new folks.  that right there might be a reason to gang up on me.  or, your diplo could be as simple as trying to make peace with neighbors as soon as you see them.  this is a compact map/grouping.  so don't be afraid to contact other players and make nice!!  i actually quite like that part of the game, and all the dealing and scheming.

ok, it early monday morning here.  im off to work, and my lawn is in dire straights.  however, once all that's done, i'll try to get my pretender in.  in a recent test run with Bandar Log, it was 12 turns before i took my 3rd province, so i can't say my confidence is particularly high.

and W8, im glad to hear you are sticking in.  don't worry about defeat if it comes-after all, most of us are going to end up dead...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 17, 2013, 05:27:06 AM
I will send mine in some time tonight.  I am having trouble coming up with a pretender I like, with abilities that will also be useful.

I have played a few games, but only finished 2 multiplayer games.  Just so everyone knows.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 17, 2013, 07:17:02 AM
Diplomacy can be a birch. But parone is right. If you suspect/know someone has an alliance try to make one your self. I on the dom3 wiki there is a really nice list of common mistakes made by newbies http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Common_mistakes.  I found it very useful.

As for trading I agree with everyone else. There is enough backstabbing and dirty dealing in this game that you shouldn't have to worry about trade. Especially since it is so easy to cheat someone.

As for communication. I have Skype and google talk if anyone would like to use those for private communication, if that is allowed. And of course email is good for me as well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on June 17, 2013, 07:34:53 AM
A Tower map has been put forth in the past as being good for a newbie game since it makes ganging up pretty impossible until late game. Everyone only has 2 neighbors. (altho that makes it disliked later for serious MP games)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 09:37:15 AM
hello gandalf!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 17, 2013, 10:59:42 AM
Parone-

Could you please edit/confirm in your original post for this thread that trades are binding and that Diplomacy is Machiavellian? (you can backstab in diplomacy but you must do your best to honor all trades).  My understanding is that is how most Dominions MP games run, but it would be nice to have it confirmed in the game description here and/or on llamaserver if possible, so no confusion later when it matters.

For what it's worth, I just posted my pretender, leaving only Kailasa, which is you, Parone, I believe. :)

Good luck and have fun all.
-Bronwell
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 17, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no Kailasa in Middle Age, right?.. Just Bandar Log.

For what it is worth, I am still playing my first MP game and I thought I would point out quickhosting for those who (like I did) have no experience with it.  In that first game we had 48 hours for our first turn which occurred over the weekend.  Not knowing how it works, I waited til the last minute on Monday to post my first turn, obviously being last to post.

With quickhosting, whenever the last player files his turn, the next turn is sent within a few minutes, regardless of how much time was left on the clock, so you can have multiple turns happen in a short time at the beginning of a game when turns go quickly if everyone is available (like that weekend).  I would never rush anyone as I think you are free to use the whole time, but just wanted to mention it as I was completely unaware, and we could have likely had several turns quickly had I known how it works.

-Just looked at the games settings and couldn't tell-- Did we decide on a hosting interval to begin? (I assumed 28 hours) and is quickhost on?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 01:55:57 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no Kailasa in Middle Age, right?.. Just Bandar Log.

That's correct. I hope parone is designing a pretender for the correct age :D.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 02:52:13 PM
ok, a few clarifications:  yes, i'm screwed up on kalaisa/patala/bandar.  i honestly have no idea how to play this nation or it's strengths.  i winged it on the pretender.  this, by the way for those of you trying to improve, is a HORRENDOUSLY BAD idea.  you should have a pregame plan with your pretender/scales.  i just didn't have time to make one-you guys meant business and got your pretenders in fast.  i did, however, make the pretender for the right age.

bronwell: i never did set an interval.  as soon as i get done typing this, i will set the interval at 28 hours, which seems a good one in the early going.  and yes, i will enable quick host, which means as soon as we all have our turns in, llama will send out the new turn file.  so don't wait till the last minute unless you have to(although as bronwell says, no huge hurry, either.  and yes, i'll update the OP vis a vis trades/diplo.

also, let's throw this rule out:  no douchebaggery.  if your typing something and it's mean spirited, please don't.  i assume we are all here for a bit of fun and escape from reality, so let's at least try to be respectful of one another.

ok, i have officially sent the first turn.   very likely we'll have a technical issue or two, so everyone hang tight.  if you are at all technically savvy, check back here, so if any of the players are having trouble with mods/sending in turns, you can lend a helping hand(im not particularly bright with computers)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 03:05:21 PM
It seems that the game display an error about the assimilation mod. To solve this you need to manually rename the "Assimilation - Mid" .dm file in your mods folder to "Assimilation_Mid" with an underscore. Not the smoothest mod I see.

Edit: Actually that doesn't even help. It won't complain about the mod missing anymore but now it just crashes my game. I think there's a version mismatch here. Maybe the version that llamaserver has is different from the one that's linked in this thread.

Anyone else having problems with the mod or is it just me?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 03:06:22 PM
ok, my turn came through ok.

one last thing and ill stop babbling:  if you need an extension, please post in this forum, PM me, or better yet, both.  the sooner you tell me, the better chance i'll be able to postpone hosting.  i've always dreamed of admining a stale free game.  keep the dream alive as long as you can for me!!

finally, if anyone wants to vice admin, speak up.  you may be around when i am not.

good luck all.  don't mess with Bandar Log-we fling monkey poo!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 03:07:14 PM
crap, faux, i remmember that i had to do that when i used it first.  thank you for the reminder.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on June 17, 2013, 03:13:34 PM
ok, my turn got through, I also had to rename the dm file of the mod, but I also needed to rename the map. The link provided in the OP delivered     roaringrhinos_v2_11L1W.tga, the game wanted roaringrhinos_v4_11Land.tga though. I renamed the map and it worked, but could it be that we are using different maps now?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 03:16:44 PM
hmm. i think i used v4.  and i very well may have posted the wrong link.  while i am a pretty consciencious admin, i am technically comically inept technically.

we'll see how it shakes out...

i have to head back into work, but will be back in a few hours.  will check in then.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 03:25:19 PM
ok, my turn got through, I also had to rename the dm file of the mod, but I also needed to rename the map. The link provided in the OP delivered     roaringrhinos_v2_11L1W.tga, the game wanted roaringrhinos_v4_11Land.tga though. I renamed the map and it worked, but could it be that we are using different maps now?

I think it's very likely there's going to be some problems by just bruteforcing the filename like that. Can anyone find a download for v4?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 17, 2013, 03:36:56 PM
Had an issue with the Assimilation mod, fixed it via the name change suggested above. Now I have that issue with the map. Going to see if I can find the wanted version, if I do, I will post it here.

Dammit, I had an exam tomorrow too...  I should really leave this until after the exam, but meh.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 03:38:36 PM
Ok, I think I found the right map. Here's the download: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xrtvpbf4lf3d5p5/KpJL_gNzG8/roaringrhinos_v4_11Land.tga
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 17, 2013, 03:41:24 PM
I just separately found and used the same one Faux found. My game seems to be working properly now, so unless someone comes up with an error we haven't covered yet, i think we may be good to go.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on June 17, 2013, 03:48:02 PM
yeah, found this link too and resubmitted my turn
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 17, 2013, 03:48:14 PM
OK, first turn sent in, now for some more revision.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 17, 2013, 04:29:47 PM
Sent in my first turn as well.  Thanks for the linky to the correct map!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 17, 2013, 04:42:23 PM
Got my first turn in as well just leaving C'Tis and Jotunheim.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 17, 2013, 04:51:11 PM
OK downloaded the revised version of map and resubmitted my turn

Also just because I am curious and cause it would be usful information for turn progression.  WOuld everyone be willing to say what timezone they are in?

I am EST.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 04:59:42 PM
guys, thanks for all the help.  i too am EST.  i'll try to keep an eye out, as the Ctis/jotun may not know we are a go, so there may be a delay tommorrow a.m.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 17, 2013, 05:12:45 PM
GMT here, so as it is now gone midnight, I am off to bed. Bye.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 17, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
haerdalus, you better have done your homework!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 17, 2013, 06:22:51 PM
I'm also EST (GMT -5)   8)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 17, 2013, 10:01:51 PM
GMT +10

I prefer communications to be resolved via PM, e-mail or in-game messaging.  It is a turn based game, so while real time communications can be more efficient, it probably just means that whoever is using Skype or chat is more likely to gang up on those who don't.

This has actually happened to me in a game.  4 players conspired, 3 of them were my neighbours in a game.  The one player that was not my neighbour pumped me for information and dutifully passed it on to his co-conspirators.

I don't care if people want to use chat or whatever, I don't care if people want to gang up either.  However, if a certain form of communication becomes a requirement in order to have an even/fair chance in a game, then I think it should be noted in the game details, preferably well before the game even starts.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 17, 2013, 11:43:52 PM
GMT+2.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 17, 2013, 11:49:40 PM
CST (GMT-6) here.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Ogrims on June 18, 2013, 03:47:04 AM
Sorry i had to work. I will do my turn now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 18, 2013, 04:21:01 AM
Off to a great start... Got an event that placed misfortune 2 and 27 unrest in my capital :o.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 18, 2013, 04:56:35 AM
Ouch. No bad events for me so far, but some of the provinces next to my capital have upwards of 70 men defending them. Could slow me slightly in the first couple of turns.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 18, 2013, 04:59:43 AM
thats the 7 strength indys - beware also there may be a mix of extra stuff in there you werent expecting either
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Ogrims on June 18, 2013, 05:20:58 AM
Nice start for me. No bad events so far. Good luck everyone!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 18, 2013, 05:36:42 AM
yes yes, i meant to stress that!!!  Indies are strength 7!!!!  when in doubt, wait a turn and get more forces.  losing an early battle can really screw up your early game.

the monkeys are huddling inside their walls.  sometimes we practice throwing poo or pebbles at eachother...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 18, 2013, 05:49:48 AM
The Enlightened and Eternal Bureaucracy of Tien Chi would like it known that the Bureaucracy is currently expanding in order to meet the needs of the expanding Bureaucracy. Thank you, and remember to fill in forms A2common4 through to Z10common4 in order to ensure you receive form Ex12d4 which will inform you of any impact this expansion will have on your work here in The Enlightened and Eternal Bureaucracy of Tien Chi. Thank you, and have a nice war.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 18, 2013, 09:03:33 AM
Good luck and have fun all. 

Yeah, early bad events suck.  In my other MP game (my first) I had a horrible start site surrounded only by mountains and waste and then blocked by impassable mountains and river-- 5 of my first 8 provinces were waste so I was completely broke.... and my bad start was stalled more on turn 4 when (1) EA Niefel's main army appeared adjacent to my capital right after I sent all troops in the opposite direction (woohoo- 2 provinces separated our capitals) and (2) a bad event dumped 35 unrest on my capital.  Unfortunately, Luck 1 and Enarie Fortune Tellers gave only bad events early, including multiple gold loss events in first 5 turns with no gold gaining events til turn 20.  Thought my game was over right there as regenerating skinshifters and Niefel Jarl's just laugh at Sauromatia's poison bows.  No way I will win, but glad to have just survived that start.  Fun times. ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 18, 2013, 09:12:50 AM
I often go for misfortune 3 scale in SP, because I know I can survive pretty much any setback against the computer. This game, my first MP... no misfortune, IIRC, due to really not wanting a series of bad events. Looks like that wont necessarily stop it from happening though, if you had that much bad luck with Luck 1 scales.

This game, my starting area is OK. nothing special, but most adjacent tiles are usable pretty soon. Not giving away more than that yet.

 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 18, 2013, 09:23:29 AM
That's why I love playing luck3 turmoil3, you get shit tons of events and most are good. Luck1 in my experience doesn't have much impact on your event type because it is such a small increase to good events.

I didn't go that route this time cause I ha e to have decent gold income and turmoil 3 absolutely destroys your income.

What's really fun is going luck3, turm3, and magic3. With those scales on the first 5 turns I had a gem event every round, found 3 magic items, and got a free laboratory. In a SP game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 18, 2013, 06:09:55 PM
many uber-dominin players will tell you turmoil3 is a game killer, and you can't win without the early/midgame gold.

they may be right, but i don't care.  t3/luck3 is a really fun build.  opening your game file is much more interesting, especially in the early going.

i played a game where i got rushed by ashdodian super bless giants, and i got a lucky hero who basically single handedly saved me, which was very fun.  will it doom me ultimately?  probably.  but hey, i've lost every single game of dominions i've ever played, so for me, fun interesting builds are the thing.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 18, 2013, 06:19:47 PM
I can see why they would say turm 3 is killer. But honestly if you get a couple of good gold events and new mine events it balances out. Especially with Pangaea turm 3 luck 3 is great. The only gold heavy unit is the pan, they have decent cheaper researchers.  So the gold loss isn't as bad, and turm 3 gives you a decent amount of berzerking free spawn. Which is good early game for chaff.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 18, 2013, 06:39:43 PM
its possible that when it was mentioned, Pan was singled out as the lone exception, due to free spawn and other things you mentioned.  having never played Pan, i wouldn't know.  do they get more free spawn with T-3?

i actually thought of playing Pan here, but it was grabbed up.  maybe i'll run into them and learn a thing or two.

actually, now that i think about it, i played against pan once in a game i subbed into, and i remmember fighting against armies of over 1000 of those crazy chick units.  i defeated two, i think, but he just kept raising them and throwing them against me, and eventually snowed me under when he got a research lead.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 18, 2013, 06:55:07 PM
Yeah each actual pan generates a number of amends each turn as long as the provinces they are in has at least turn 1, with each additional level of turn the number of amends they get increases. I think with turn 3 they get like 8 or 10 each. And pans are the main big gun caster for Pangaea. So by mid game you will have a fair number of them.

The catch is that they go down like flies.  They are not overly powerful, their advantage is that they are berzerk so they dont run, and you have a million of them, which also means that you want to get mass buffs out ASAP because you get more bang for your buck.  You just have to watch out and put them with stuff that wont route easily either so that you dont lose half your army because of HP loss when the maeneds start dieing all over the place.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 19, 2013, 12:50:25 PM
For what it's worth, there's a new thread on Desura forums with official confirmation that they are working on Dominions 4.  For first time it's NOT an april fool's post.  :).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 19, 2013, 01:05:45 PM
For what it's worth, there's a new thread on Desura forums with official confirmation that they are working on Dominions 4.  For first time it's NOT an april fool's post.  :).

Yes it's awesome news. All the bits of info we've been getting from the few beta testers makes me impatient :).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 19, 2013, 02:20:32 PM
at this point, im pretty sure i should have spent a bit more time playtesting bandar :-[

i read a guide about them, and while im sure it was good advice for a skilled player, for me, it was a bit disasterous.

dead monkeys.  so many dead, little furry monkeys...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 19, 2013, 02:27:57 PM
Ah, don't worry. I dont think my guide was prepared for attacking a province with a predicted enemy count of about 30, to find 60 when the attack actually landed. That cost me half my starting army, so I had to return to base the next turn. Ouch.

independant strength 7 is nasty. Also, through testing some of your nations, I have found that I really like Machaka. Maybe I should have gone for them, as my SP with them has about 25 provinces by turn 20, decent research and a huge, nigh unstoppable army (admittedly made almost entirely of diseased and crippled units. Damn you starvation when besieging, damn you!)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 19, 2013, 02:34:03 PM
i love machaka.  maybe the most thematic nation. 

that said, i am so bad with them, it is either comical or tragic, i don't know which.   back to guides, i read one that said you should never recruit hoplites.  so i tried that.  it didn't work well.  also, i built most of my strat around death summons for midgame, but of course, i only found one death sight.

while it isn't going my way in this game(totally because i stink, not cus of bad luck) i love 7 strength indies.  instead of an all out land grab, you really have to be carefull where/how you strike.  also, they make a SC pretender somewhat viable. 

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 19, 2013, 02:47:28 PM
I've noticed that you should take any guide with a grain of salt. They're also mostly meant for vanilla and CBM changes stuff quite a bit.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 19, 2013, 03:57:27 PM
I prefer indies 7 as well as the beginning is such a land grab that at least it makes it a little more unpredictable.  It helps that I always played SP with at least 6 indy setting, so was surprised at how easy 5 was.  It rewards taking a little more time to ensure safe attacks especially since losing because you were just a little short on troops can be so disastrous.  Gotta love when you have slow resource-intensive heavy infantry who break and get slaughtered trying to run.

For my end, I expected numbers of troops to vary wildly, but was a bit miffed when the estimates said "Mainly troops A and B".. but they forgot to mention "troop C".  Where the hell was my warning about C?..... hehe.

I love Machaka too.  Was one of the first nations I really got to know and I loved those hoplites.  I saw those guides too and thought they were crazy.  Those hoplites are god-like early-game.   Shield parry 8? and great armor and defense with a long spear that does 5 damage?.. yes please.  Sure.. mid/late game that strat move 1 means you better find some troop summons, but early game they rock.  Thinking about it, I assume CBM armor changes probably made them more viable.

Your mention of finding death sites reminds me of my luck site-searching in my other MP game (which I may have already mentioned).  I'm playing Sauromatia and was hoping for nature and astral sites to broaden my very limited magic options. 40 turns in and with 25+ territories spell + holy searched I have found exactly 1 astral and 1 nature site for +1 astral gem/turn.. and until about turn 35 had +1 Nature to the +1 nature I started with (found a couple nature since).  Wow.  Every single mage I have has nature magic and nothing to spend... and no astral to even alchemize.  I was worried about trying to find Enchantresses, and never even considered getting that site-hosed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 19, 2013, 04:52:56 PM
Ah, well that SP Machaka game where I had 25 provinces by turn 20? Indy strength 9. There is one strategy with them which is ridiculously, insanely, brokenly strong, at least in the early game (have yet to go far enough with them to comment on mid/late). Obviously, with one of my enemies being Machaka, I will not be giving details.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 19, 2013, 05:00:12 PM
haerdalas-

some strats that seem 'broken' vs AI are actually pretty easy to counter in MP.  i don't know what you are talking about specifically, but i bet a good player(and by that, i mean not me) could probably counter it
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 19, 2013, 05:43:31 PM
OK sorry that took so long to get my turn in, things went nuts here at my house when I got home.  But its in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 19, 2013, 07:13:59 PM
One thing I tried with Machaka in a game was recruiting a number of Spider Riders.  I would place them at the front of an army and have them fire bows.  This means they take a lot of archer fire and cavalry charges, but you actually want this.  When the rider gets killed, the spider remains.  The spiders have a ranged attacks as well, but importantly they have no upkeep cost.

After a few turns of battle, you usually have enough spiders to alter strategy a bit.  Their web spit attack is great at locking down tough independents and if you keep them on the flanks they will not block your regular infantry from the front line.

Once you get some research, you can try fielding Black Sorcerers as thugs.  They are not that tough in human form, but when they are wounded they change shape into a giant spider.  Stoneskin and Fire Shield are simple buffs they can cast before running into melee and morphing into a rock-hard, flaming spider.  A few of those can take out most normal independents as a group.  By themselves they will get swarmed, but they will not be able to deal as much Fire Shield damage as 3 or 4 of them can.  Once you get some research in construction, you can give them some trinkets to increase their survivability a bit.  You just need to ensure they keep their fatigue fairly low before they run into combat.  Summon Earthpower and a reinvigoration amulet can help out here.

I should point out that the only time I played Machaka in MP, I was taken out pretty quickly, so remember this before you take my advice.   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 20, 2013, 04:16:19 AM
Yeah, that spider rider thing was the stategy I meant. It may or may not do much good vs other actual players, but the rate of expansion you can achieve when you have an army of 14 protection, 26 hp, 14 strength Giant Spiders with no upkeep at 30 gold and 4 resources each is ridiculous. It also helps when your 3 luck gives you the +1000 gold event 2 turns out of the first 10, I guess... I would lose maybe a spider or two per battle when outnumbered 2:1. the only thing that managed to stop my first army of about 60 spiders was running into an enemy pretender, with about 5 other mages, spamming undead and fireball type spells. And I still managed to kill all but the pretender before my men routed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on June 20, 2013, 07:47:46 AM
haerdalas-

some strats that seem 'broken' vs AI are actually pretty easy to counter in MP.  i don't know what you are talking about specifically, but i bet a good player(and by that, i mean not me) could probably counter it

Also keep in mind if your AI play is vanilla. ANY strat on the vanilla game should be suspect in a modded game. Often the purpose of mods is to specifically make easy strategies more difficult to use. The same applies to vanilla MP vs modded MP, or vanilla AI vs modded AI games
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 20, 2013, 08:09:14 AM
This Indy-7 strength is killing me, bros :(

Also, jesus, how much are you paying for mercs, C'tis?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 20, 2013, 08:11:00 AM
This Indy-7 strength is killing me, bros :(

Also, jesus, how much are you paying for mercs, C'tis?

the other games on '9' - id love '7'!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 20, 2013, 09:31:13 AM
The first battle cost me half my army. I had to return and replenish troops. The second battle cost me only one man. I still had to return to replenish troops, because /not one/ of the provinces I can attack has less than 60 men right now, except for one... that apparently has Elephants.

The RNGs hate me.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 20, 2013, 09:36:18 AM
I recruited a second commander explicitly to ferry troops to my main army until losses become acceptable.  Once I have enough decent troops in my main army, I have the commander spare for a second force.  Expansion is slower than I would like, but I have a plan to increase the pace. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 21, 2013, 03:59:58 AM
Just curious is anybody else keeping a backlog of their turns and 2H Files?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 21, 2013, 04:13:45 AM
Just curious is anybody else keeping a backlog of their turns and 2H Files?

Haven't been saving 2h files but the turn files are all stored in my mail. Might be fun to revisit them in the future.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 04:28:47 AM
wow.  another 'interesting' turn for Bandar Log. 

too bad graphs aren't on.  mine would be hilarious!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 21, 2013, 04:39:37 AM
I was a bit surprised at how quickly I ran into my closest neighbour.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 21, 2013, 04:52:38 AM
I have yet to encounter anyone else, even with my scout, but I can see other dominions, so they cant be far away..

Also, although i have yet to actually lose a battle, casualty rates are high enough I can only really hope to take down a province every other turn right now. Hopefully that will change soon, now that I have control over most of the provinces adjacent to my capital providing resources for my high cost army.

Seriously, Tien Chi troops are decent, but it's really difficuly to field them in sufficient numbers for the first few turns, as more gold is useless.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 21, 2013, 05:01:52 AM
Same here. Can see other dominion but haven't seen actual targets... I mean players yet.

My province attacking power was kinda slow to begin with. Mainly because I took a cautious approach since shiny recruits are pretty mediocre at best. But my province acquisitions power has doubled on the last turn. Which is nice.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 21, 2013, 08:15:54 AM
I have encountered a couple of players but have not actually made contact yet.  Can't divulge any other info however due to security reasons.   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 21, 2013, 08:47:04 AM
I have a Spy wandering around trying to find people right now. I found a 3-strength enemy dominion province which I am moving into this turn, so hopefully I will be finding someone soon.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 21, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I was pleasantly surprised to have those 2 turns go within 7 hours.  I checked in expecting to see about a third having turned in their turns, instead, it said half had turned them in and I wasn't one of them. 

Thought I had failed sending it in, then checked and saw a new turn had gone out.  :)

And now only 2 players left to turn in a mere 3 hours after last turn post.  :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 21, 2013, 10:49:33 AM
I know there is some controversy with setting up alliances or mutual defense pacts but I have yet another option to ask about. 

What do you all say about agreements to carve up the land of independents between major nations?  IOW you could contact a player and propose to not take or take certain independent provinces and avoid accidental battles with another major power.  That is of course until there is no one else to attack. 

If two major power armies did meet by accident can we apologize to each other and negotiate real estate deals?  Or of course we could just go all out war and fight over the independent territories.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 11:07:15 AM
w8, all that is totally fine.  pretty commonplace in an effort to not collide
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 11:17:56 AM
and bronwell, yes, this game is proceeding quite briskly!  everyone seems very enthusiastic.  also, the quick intervals allow me to slaugher my own monkeys at even greater speed!!!

i hope the aspca isn't keeping tabs of what im doing...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 21, 2013, 11:22:05 AM
^We won't tell, kill all the monkeys you need to!   ;D


Ok sounds good on the carving up the land and avoiding accidents agreements.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 21, 2013, 11:25:45 AM
^We won't tell, kill all the monkeys you need to!   ;D


Ok sounds good on the carving up the land and avoiding accidents agreements.

Accidental border skirmishes are bound to happen. I already had one and the better army won, keeping the province (atleast for now).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 21, 2013, 12:11:04 PM
Diplomacy is diplomacy. Alliance, non aggression pacts, borders.  Diplomacy is what attracted me to dominions 3. It's what sets it apart from games like civilization.

As I was reading the let's plays I saw, it really did seem like there was more going on in the background, in the diplomacy, than was going on in the game. People making and breaking agreements, people string to guess what some one was doing and get others to help them stop it. Or simply trying to keep themselves afloat by requesting assistance.   And trying to guess who was helping who. Knowing that there can be only one winner so all alliances and agreements are temporary. You have to help to get help. But if you are too helpful you give them and edge to use against you.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 21, 2013, 01:03:47 PM
Diplomacy is diplomacy. Alliance, non aggression pacts, borders.  Diplomacy is what attracted me to dominions 3. It's what sets it apart from games like civilization.

As I was reading the let's plays I saw, it really did seem like there was more going on in the background, in the diplomacy, than was going on in the game. People making and breaking agreements, people string to guess what some one was doing and get others to help them stop it. Or simply trying to keep themselves afloat by requesting assistance.   And trying to guess who was helping who. Knowing that there can be only one winner so all alliances and agreements are temporary. You have to help to get help. But if you are too helpful you give them and edge to use against you.

This is also why I feel that shared victory games are rubbish.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 01:06:24 PM
i agree with all that.  diplo is fine, but generally, when i hear two powers are going for a 'shared victory', i try to kill them.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 21, 2013, 01:07:12 PM
Shared victory is silly. But at the same time if 2 nations are practically equal power then it turns into a slug fest for ever and ever. I do like the idea that after a few turns of trench warfare doing one giant final battle to decide the fate of the world unless one side or the other has a particular reason to not want to do that.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 21, 2013, 01:08:42 PM
i agree with all that.  diplo is fine, but generally, when i hear two powers are going for a 'shared victory', i try to kill them.

That is the best statement ever.  Do you mind if I quote that and put it in my siggie?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 21, 2013, 01:23:08 PM
I'd like to throw in my vote against shared victory.  Unless we all vote for it to happen right now, and then play out the places :p
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 21, 2013, 03:58:18 PM
Yeah, no shared victories. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a war to decide the one true God if you then choose a Pantheon...

That being said, using diplomacy throughout the game is fine in my opinion. It is a well known fact that some nations are just plain more powerful in the early game than others. Since Tien Chi is not one of the bless-rush nations, I plan to use diplomacy to either pacify any more powerful nations, or if that fails (quite likely) get my fellow squishy human nations to gang up on the Giants/Norse/whatever else the MA has to throw at us early on.

In this game, being weak is obviously a bad idea. But standing out as the strongest is a REALLY BAD IDEA. Because there is nothing like a common enemy to unite people.

Unless you're actually strong enough to take on all your neighbors. Then it's just a /fun/ idea.


UPDATE: I Finally have Neighbors! Ok, one is only with a scout, but the other actually has a border with me. Time for some diplomacy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 04:08:31 PM
i love to play Ulm, and they are an awesome early expander.  even 7 indies don't present much of a problem.  and i have played them so much that i am actually fairly good in the early game. 

but, now haerdalas, we get to your closing comment:  twice, i got big early and was able to eat opposing nations one on one.  and then, the world united against me.  you can handle it for awhile, but eventually, the toll of 4 on 1(or more) takes its toll.  especially if you are only so so at midgame, and downright lousy in the late game(and brother, i am)

that said, it's tons of fun to 'take on the world'.  you get to talk all kinds of smack and have delusions of grandeur and everything. 

the way things are going for me and the monkeys, i don't think i present much of a threat to the world.  but, you know, hope springs eternal
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 21, 2013, 04:39:41 PM
Parone... seeing your posts remind me of what I think is my favorite post in this thread.. so many dead furry little monkeys.   That is the motto of monkey PD.  Against any archery you see a carpet of monkeys.  The funny thing is seeing how well they sometimes stand up to a few elite units or giants who get stymied by 6 monkeys to a square defense 14 walls. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 05:05:09 PM
yes bron, i hear you.  some of my casualties occured in victories, but my losses are absolutely appaling

like i said, im usually ulm.  with protection26 and tower shields, force conservation is easy.  for the monkeys...well, i guess you better be making new monkeys
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 21, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Doesnt bandar log get elephants?  Or am I confusing them with another group?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 06:03:21 PM
yeah.  elephants would have been a good idea.  but i have had some past disasterous(though admittedly amusing experiences) with them
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 21, 2013, 06:10:41 PM
Yeah, Tien Chi is about as squishy as I dare go for my Nations. It is notable that in my SP games so far I have been EA Ermor, MA Ulm (when trying to decide for this game) EA and MA Tien Chi and Formoria. I dont like being vulnerable to arrows. I like my tower shields and 10+ protection basic units.

Hey, its not like they do much good later, but against indies they allow a good bit of momentum. Sometimes.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 21, 2013, 06:43:31 PM
I think that it is arcoscephale that gets elephants. Bandar is just demon monkeys who throw sticks and poo. And die all over the place.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 21, 2013, 06:58:25 PM
both arco and bandar get pachyderms
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 22, 2013, 01:37:50 AM
I would hesitate to use elephants for early expansion.  A group of 5 will set you back 600 gold, not to mention upkeep of ~40 gold per turn.  Getting a fast return on that outlay would be challenging, more so if you plan on fielding multiple squads. 

Once you are fighting a war, it becomes a little different.  My mindset becomes less about getting a return on gold spent and more about making my opponent spend more than me.  Elephants can be a great tool for forcing someone to waste a lot of gold or turns to implement counters, which can help build momentum during a campaign.

I don't really have any experience using elephants, so someone may know some cost-effective means to deploy them.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 22, 2013, 06:26:17 AM
True they are expensive with small gain back immediately. But against pretty much any Indys short of cavalry are going to get crushed. A group of 3-5 elephants in the center with some type of infantry flanking them.  The elephants charge theiddle the flankers keep everything contained after 2-3 rounds of the infantry being trampled they rout. Wash rinse repeat with every Indy in the area. 4 elephants and about 20 infantry and 1 commander.  Only real problem is if the elephants take enough damage to rout.  But that is also what the Flankers are for is provide distraction

The elephants can easily take multiple provinces with no problems. So in the short term they are expensive but long term they are really good. At least that is my experience.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 22, 2013, 01:35:14 PM
Yeah, the impression I have received from reading on forums and such is that Elephants are really good at clearing indies, just don't use them against any opponent with a soul, as they are easy to counter.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 04:09:41 AM
ten turns, no stales, not even a delay request.

good work all! ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 04:43:56 AM
Is that particularly unusual?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on June 23, 2013, 04:52:13 AM
Lol - on here?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 05:09:29 AM
haerdalas:  stales can really mess up games.  to quote mr mackey "stales are bad, mmm, ok?"

i don't know if it's unusual, but im happy everyone is making an effort to get their turns in!  it's a sign of a healthy game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 06:40:17 AM
Oh, I knew they were bad, just wasn't sure how common they are. Still, I am glad that people seem to be completing turns early. I like a couple of turns a day when each turn only takes about 10 minutes to complete.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 23, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
ten turns, no stales, not even a delay request.

good work all! ;D

Yes very good.  I really like how things are shaping up in this game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 23, 2013, 10:27:03 AM
Had my first truly bad event so far this game.  Stupid Barbarians.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 23, 2013, 10:58:31 AM
Had my first truly bad event so far this game.  Stupid Barbarians.

I got troglodytes.  >:(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 11:05:33 AM
only an ill omen so far, no troops affected.

And that it is, both good and bad. having neutral luck is strange...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 23, 2013, 11:06:17 AM
I have a lot of unrest in one province, but no events so far..?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
might be a "magic" site. A couple, such as a Bandit's Lair, increase unrest (though how exactly a bandits lair is magical I don't know....)

In one SP game I had a province with 3 Bandit's Lairs and an Inkpot End. I assume house prices there are at rock bottom.


EDIT: Oh, also you can have some starting unrest when you first take a province, I think. You might just have some left over. Set the tax to automatic and it will lower the tax rate for a few turns until the unrest disappears in this case.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 23, 2013, 11:58:46 AM
Yes, when you first take a province I want to say that the unrest starts out at like 20ish, usually takes about 2-3 turns of auto tax rate to sort it all out.  Or you can just kill people until they stop being angry at you.  Thats especially easy for Pangea, I think,  whoever it is that has the black harpy as their scout commander, cause it also has like leader 10, and you can recruit harpy units, and flying creatures get a bonus when they are given the patrol command.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 01:14:18 PM
My patrolling is done by Imperial Guardsmen, who count as 3 men each.

Led by a Eunuch, who counts as 15 men. This means i can quite easily operate at 140% tax in my capital for as long as I need (read: the rest of the game).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 01:30:10 PM
haerdalas-

yes, you can.  and it is often a good idea.  but remmember, patrolling kills pop.  even if you have very strong growth scales that can make up for it, you still are not growing as fast as you can.

ahhh trade offs and choices... ???
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 23, 2013, 01:35:06 PM
BAH! Who needs population bleed them dry of their money then cast them to the side buwahaha.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 02:01:06 PM
well, sure but...

your income is dependant on your population.  so, you can't really have one without the other.

that is the classic early game tradeoff-overtax and impede growth?  more now, less later?

of course, most people feel gold is less important as the game goes on.  so there is that too.  plus how your scales figure in...

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 02:50:03 PM
3 growth scales. I may lose out a little in the long run, but to be honest I don't need gold much except mid game. Early game I cant use it (not enough resources) late game is more about magic and stuff than armies, so really all I use it for is hiring vast numbers of researchers mid game. Tien Chi has some extremely good mid game research capacity... if I can get things going anyway, these independants are just tough enough to slow me.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
well, i must say, this is probably the worst starting position i have ever had...

i border four empires, who are all faster expanders.

i managed to kill off a whole bunch of cute monkeys.

my indi recruits are pretty awful, and have one huge thing missing

but-

imagine if i can survive it!!  think of the opportunity for glory!

we are almost to our first research goal, which will allow me to spring some nasty surprises, even with my poop hurling minions...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 23, 2013, 04:20:52 PM
Ok. So I know its not an exact science. Basically the early game is when everyone is expanding and lasts until the majority of indys are dead. The mid game is basically when people start pulling out geared summoned thugs. And then lasts until the majority of research is finished. And then late game consists of all those half blind from reading in the tower mages start getting air and dropping nukes on everything.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 23, 2013, 04:30:34 PM
Hahaha, that's a brilliant summary, Wingedflamez! :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 23, 2013, 05:06:48 PM
Yeah... Building economy thugs and minor SCs isn't really something I have much practice in. In SP, when I want an SC, I summon a Tartarian and give him every single one of the best artifact weapons in the game. Up until then I tend to do fine with armies of men and minor summons. I imagine it will be just a little bit harder in MP....
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 23, 2013, 05:16:33 PM
im not sure if this is true, but it has been my experience that as the game moves on, if players are more skilled, it really starts to show.  that's why the early game is my 'specialty'
 ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 23, 2013, 11:25:09 PM
Thugs are overrated.

I should rephrase that.  Neglecting your regular or summoned armies in favour of thugs will not do you any favours.  They are a useful tool, but should not be seen as the main focus of every single strategy.   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 24, 2013, 07:06:27 AM
Not saying otherwise. Just everything I've seen is that thugs are important for harassing the enemy. Imo nothing should ever be unsupported not really even SC. But that is just because I believe heavily in the idea of flanking and rear assault.

Also everything I've read sort of points to thugs actually being the best way to handle SCs. In that for the cost of an SC you could create 2-3 thugs. And if they are geared correctly hose thugs can kill and SC with at most 1 loss, meaning that the net loss for your opponent is much higher than yours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 24, 2013, 12:39:35 PM
Depends.  When I think of a thug, I think of a cheap commander with a lot of hit points, that you use with a regular army to reduce losses on your side while increasing losses to your opponent.  Something like a Jotun Jarl with a modest bless and a forged weapon, like a Frost Brand.  Enough Jarls like that and you can use them in place of an army, rather than in addition to one.  If they die, you lose the 5 gems for the weapon, so probably not a great loss. 

Setting up a thug for raiding, patrolling or assassination might require more gems for gear and a special summoned unit.  Gearing up units tasked with cracking a particularly tough nut probably counts as a thug too.  Super Combatants are not something I can really talk about.  I know how to make a dangerous combat pretender, like a Dragon, Gorgon or Prince of Death, but I struggle with building unstoppable units in-game, as well as keeping them relevant.

Taking out an SC really depends on the SC.  If nothing else, Mind Hunt or Vengeance of the Dead can be spammed remotely until you get lucky.  Otherwise it seems to boil down to finding the weakness of the unit (if they have one) and trying to exploit it.  My only experience killing SC's in a game was due to battlefield enchantments and a massive army more than specific units, but YMMV. 

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 24, 2013, 01:06:57 PM
What you described I would call a combat commander. A commander who does more than sit in the back and keep his guys from routing.

What I consider a thug is basically a mini SC.  With basic gear and minimal.support they can handle PD but an organized army with scripting is too much. The idea with him is to go in bust some heads and then withdraw before the real defense gets there.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 24, 2013, 02:10:31 PM
If you can get it, there is an artifact sword that is pretty much MADE for taking down SCs. Can't remember the name offhand, but basically when it hits someone they are instantly 100 fatigued and thus they fall to the ground, where your thug/mini sc/ whatever else you gave the sword to can finish it off at his leisure.

of course, being an artifact, you probably wont get it very often in MP. In signle players, weapons like that are the kind of overpowered stuff I used as standard and the reason I find SP no challenge anymore, and thus why I moved to MP. Losing is "fun" too, sometimes (or maybe I should stop playing Dwarf Fortress....).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 24, 2013, 03:47:32 PM
Losing is "fun" too, sometimes (or maybe I should stop playing Dwarf Fortress....).

I doubt I'll ever win a game of Dom3, but it doesn't stop me giggling like a schoolgirl when I play! :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 24, 2013, 03:54:58 PM
Turn 15 News:


Today forces of Vanheim collided with forces from Jotunheim.  It seems that our two nations were going after the same independent province.  Vanheim wishes to declare it recognizes Jotunheim's victory and will stay away from this province.  We hope to avoid future accidental skirmishes with our kinsmen in Jotunheim.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 24, 2013, 04:02:26 PM
[rant]
One thing that has always annoyed me, particularly now in MP when every man counts, is the way your archers insist on carrying on firing after you have routed independents. It doesn't matter whether you wipe them all out, once they rout that is all that matters, but your archers just keep shooting, and sometimes they go and hit your men in the back and kill them.

Idiots.

[/rant]
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 24, 2013, 04:14:55 PM
it does matter if you are reanimating corpses...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 24, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
Yeah. I had a battle a few turns ago where all the losses I took were friendly fire related.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 25, 2013, 12:13:26 PM
I've never had this horrible luck in a game and I'm on a neutral luck scale.  >:(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 25, 2013, 12:20:00 PM
What has happened to make you feel that way? You seemed to be doing alright from what I can see...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 25, 2013, 12:25:21 PM
It's worse when you pay for positive luck and get a series of bad events...

It is past the first year, so I doubt an unlucky turn or two will lead to a critical existence failure. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on June 25, 2013, 12:36:47 PM
What has happened to make you feel that way? You seemed to be doing alright from what I can see...

Bogus & friends locked down my capital for two turns among others.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 25, 2013, 01:16:47 PM
...Ouch...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 25, 2013, 05:55:41 PM
An early Bogus on your capital can be brutal.  Sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 26, 2013, 06:32:30 AM
starting to get worried we may have our first stale here.... ParOne, has Machaka asked for an extension? if not, should we give him a small one anyway?

Edit: never mind, he took his turn.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 26, 2013, 07:07:26 AM
I would like to request an extension now, I will probably get my turn in tonight, but I have things going on tonight, and the dead line is at like 8am my time and I have to be at work at 530. So I hate have to ask to push it back this far but could it be pushed back to GMT 0230 on Thursday. Which I believe is 1030 wed night for EST.

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 26, 2013, 07:11:46 AM
I think you have your times wrong. GMT 0230 Thursday is within the current deadline, you have until GMT 1648 Thursday for this turn by default...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 26, 2013, 07:14:01 AM
NM I forgot what day it was. I would like the extension to run to 0230 Friday GMT so that I have until tomorrow night at 1030 EST.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 26, 2013, 07:51:10 AM
Whoops.  Sorry Pythium.  Mine now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 26, 2013, 07:57:32 AM
:(

this has been happening to me rather a lot.

:(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 26, 2013, 10:45:17 AM
hmm, im not too good with time zones.

to make it easy for me, just ask for your extension by how many hours you need.  im going to give a 36 hour extension, but with the auto host on, if you don't need that long it should work out just fine.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 26, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
ok, i fogot my admin password.

could have sworn it was riddle, but apparently not.

trying to find a way to override(asked some vets if there is any way around this)

on the good side, tygaros/machaka did NOT stale last turn
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 26, 2013, 07:11:42 PM
I have had an issue with my password as well.  The first time it is entered, it always tells me it is incorrect for some reason.  No problems when it is re-entered.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 26, 2013, 08:24:57 PM
yes.  well, that'd be ok, if i remmembered my password.  i did reenter them several times on the off chance i misstyped, but no go.

i have acquired THE llamabeasts email.  i have dispatched a plea for aid.  so all is not lost.  yet. ???
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 27, 2013, 06:35:18 AM
It would appear that Shinuyama is in, so the extension will not be required.

Parone should still pester poilitely ask llamaservers admin for a new copy of the game password.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 27, 2013, 07:05:03 AM
Yeah. I made in. I was worried that I wasn't going to get home til 11 last night which means I wouldn't have had time, but I got home around 9 so was able to get it in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on June 27, 2013, 08:49:36 AM
So apparently there are some wars heating up?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 27, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
None on my end. Peace all around for me. Which is fine, lets me get my research efforts into shape. Much further behind than normal, thanks to those strength 7 indies.

Just finishing the last few indies off, then it's time to prepare for the inevitable.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 27, 2013, 06:19:23 PM
llama did get back to me and got me the password.  i immediately(and i guess, ineffectually) extended the turn.

very glad my ineptitude did not cause a stale.  i DO have the password now, so extensions should be a cinch.

ok, game on!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on June 28, 2013, 12:10:00 AM
Good to know.  The game is progressing nicely, with no stales or hick-ups, so having the tools to admin the game should minimise any potential drama.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 28, 2013, 02:46:47 PM
So I gather a turn extension was added?  I see 30 hours have elapsed and it looks like there are still 30 hours on the clock?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 28, 2013, 05:44:45 PM
yes, i added it(too late) and it seems it was lucky...

many games, by the way, use turn 20 as a time to increase turn interval.

if folks would like to weigh in on increasing it or leaving it the same, now is the time!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 28, 2013, 05:57:20 PM
I would not mind maybe a 12 hour extension. But that is mainly because at this time the turn in time is like mid day for me. But it will be like that for sombody so what ever other people would like.  I can work with.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 28, 2013, 06:31:36 PM
I dont mind an extension. While I much prefer faster turns, the way this game is going we should still churn through the turns before the time is up, so it shouldn't delay most rounds for long, and it gives more time for those that need it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on June 28, 2013, 07:54:16 PM
My vote would be to leave it short with generous extensions whenever requested.  Turns are still pretty simple and likely will be for another year. 

One thing that also might give peace of mind would be if there were any additional players with the admin privilege to add time to prevent staling, hopefully someone living in a different time zone than Parone.

My only other game is on turn 47 and just increased turn time from 28 hours about 2 turns ago.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on June 29, 2013, 03:05:55 AM
Well, that turn went well. 4 magic sites from two searches, a random event giving me gems, and finding a very useful indy mage magic site.

PS: why is the spell check saying mage isn't a word? Seriously, it has only been in use for decades, and its not like this forum is occasionally about games or anything...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 29, 2013, 05:56:51 AM
my turn to not get a turn file, i guess...

everybody else get there's?  should have received one around 6 EST
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on June 29, 2013, 05:58:11 AM
I got mine.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 29, 2013, 07:00:04 AM
Got my turn and turned it around.   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on June 30, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
Quick announcement:


Vanheim intends to invade the independent province of Ripewood? (province 39).  We hope to avoid any accidental battle with another major power.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on June 30, 2013, 03:47:58 PM
LOL.  i didn't know my view on shared victory was quote worthy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 01, 2013, 04:39:24 AM
^LOL. 

Yeah I thought that statement you made was perfect and had to be quoted.  I'm not sure what your tone was when you made the statement because a written statement cannot convey emotion through the sound of one's voice tones.  When I read what you had written about shared victories I pictured you killing the shared victory nations while at the same time calmly explaining to them that what they are doing is a no no.  Like a parent scolding a child.  That sort of thing.   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 02, 2013, 11:49:37 AM
hmm.  I again am struggling to get llama to send me my turn.  the only way I can get it is to reset the password for Bandar and then ask for a resend(merely asking for a turn resend ain't gettin' it done)

anyone else struggling with this?  it'd be very easy to think it had not hosted yet, and end up with a stale :-\
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 02, 2013, 11:51:22 AM
Just a heads-up - a couple of y'all have been sending me some private messages about this game.  You're probably aiming for someone else to receive them, since I'm not in the game, so double-check your outbound traffic.  It's not that I'm bothered by receiving them.  I just want to make sure you don't think your intended recipients are blowing you off when they never got the messages.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 02, 2013, 11:52:17 AM
I have recovered the email.stating that the turn was sent out. Haven't had chance to see if it has or not.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 02, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
hmm.  even messing with the email hasn't helped.  wonder why llama doesn't want me to get my turn?

perhaps it is a conspiracy.  llamas are not trustworthy animals...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 02, 2013, 12:09:47 PM
hmm.  could be trouble here folks.  spent over half an hour trying to get my turn, simply can't get it...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 02, 2013, 12:15:23 PM
By all means suspend the game for as long as you need to sort out the problems. It's better than someone staling because of technical hiccups.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 02, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
Lol.  I ended up getting it four times!!! guess I didn't wait long enough.

all is well :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 02, 2013, 03:06:52 PM
No problems receiving turns here. I get them and turn them around with no technical hiccups at all.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 02, 2013, 06:30:44 PM
I haven't had many problems with turns.  One turn I did not receive.  I asked for a resend and received it 5 minutes later with no problems.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 02, 2013, 07:02:12 PM
I just wanted to send an FYI that I might not be available to submit my turns starting this friday and ending sunday.  I'll know more when we get closer to the weekend.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 03, 2013, 03:51:01 AM
ok w8.  keep me posted, thanks for the heads up
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on July 03, 2013, 07:36:30 AM
Sorry, I'll need a delay this weekend, but it seems we are two then, so I hope it's not a big deal. I probably will be able to submit the next turn after the server hosted before I'm away, but I'll get the turn therafter in at the earliest late Sunday/Monday.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 03, 2013, 04:33:02 PM
tygaros, will you need the delay on the current turn, or after(you have not yet submitted for this turn)

folks, im going to put a 60 hour delay on to get us through this weekend.  i'll probably wait till tomorrow, to see if everyone gets their turns in.  delay may be on current turn or the next.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on July 03, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
Sorry for the confusion, just submitted my turn and will need the delay the next one.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 03, 2013, 05:12:26 PM
very well.  as soon as this turn hosts, I will ADD 60 hours to the timer.  meaning we will have an 88 hour delay.

I will try to check Monday to see if the turns are in(I don't think Monday is a big work day for me, but my work is pretty erratic, so you never know).  i should be able to check, and if some are missing, i'll delay further.

hope all of you have a good extended weekend.  it's Independence Day here in the States-since nobody is dead in DOOOM, i suppose we are all still independent...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 03, 2013, 05:14:14 PM
P.S.  thanks to Tyg and W8 for telling me early they would need delays-i know you can't always tell when you will need a delay, but it sure makes it easier for the admin if you can give notice.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 03, 2013, 06:21:53 PM
You're welcome parone.  I now know that I will be back to play my turn Sunday evening.  Monday morning my time at the latest. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 03, 2013, 10:22:37 PM
hi. Requesting delay through saturday RE: new years

edit, Ah!  already established.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 04, 2013, 04:09:26 AM
new years?

alastair we have been discussing a delay AFTER this turn hosts-do you need one for this turn?

also folks, i'll ask this again:  if you need a delay, please specify hours.  Saturday for you might not be sat.  for  me etc etc.

try to get back to me if you can alastair
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 07, 2013, 08:07:59 AM
folks just left.  I'll try to get a turn in sometime in the next 12 hours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 07, 2013, 10:48:20 AM
I have returned and am ready to resume playing.   8)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 08, 2013, 02:06:47 PM
There is a new patch 3.29 which has just been released as of 2 hours ago.

Apparently, it will be implemented on all the llamaserver games, including ours.  According to the thread below, supposedly a message will be sent by llamaserver?  All dominion clients will need to be updated to avoid crash issues.

http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/patch-329
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on July 08, 2013, 06:27:20 PM
All of the servers are upgrading.
Mine ( www.Dom3minions.com ) will be upgrading tomorrow.
You can get the latest patch from www.Illwinter.com
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 08, 2013, 06:39:49 PM
What is that going to do to Mods?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 08, 2013, 07:28:16 PM
thanks Gandalf.

flames-I imagine nothing
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 09, 2013, 08:55:47 AM
Gotta love Illwinter!  Patched the game with no problems thanks to the link from gp1628.   8)


To my fellow PBEM partners out there: 

This may be Vanheims last transmission as we are nearing the end of a bloody war with Jotunheim, and we're on the losing end of the outcome.  The death toll is catastrophic, you must play your turn.   ;D

(http://ayay.co.uk/backgrounds/star_wars/characters/governor-of-naboo-sio-bibble.jpg)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on July 09, 2013, 10:16:34 AM
While you are in the neighborhood getting the patch you could also check out the updated Dom4 page
http://www.illwinter.com/dom4/index.html
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 09, 2013, 10:33:02 AM
We're bravely braving Pangaea, who has something like 3 times the territories we do, and at least 7 castles.   Currently in the market for a chainsaw and maybe a few lumberjacks.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 09, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
You know, I think there might actually be such a thing as too much Monty Python. after reading the last post, I can't get the Lumberjack song out of my head. Oh the horror.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 09, 2013, 11:01:01 AM
I'm not sure there can ever be too much Monty Python, Haerdalas.   I managed to get my little brothers hooked on it at a young age to ensure someone would always get my Grail references.   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 09, 2013, 11:12:04 AM
Has llamaserver updated to 3.29 already?

Also wow. Can't wait for Dominions 4 and will surely preorder.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 09, 2013, 01:04:11 PM
I updated using Gandalf's link, and it was pretty easy even for a bumbler like me.

that said, in case anyone has problems, I am going to add 24 hours to the timer for this turn.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 09, 2013, 01:23:24 PM
I updated using Gandalf's link, and it was pretty easy even for a bumbler like me.

that said, in case anyone has problems, I am going to add 24 hours to the timer for this turn.

Thanks. I'll probably be needing the extension because my working schedule is a bit messed up this week.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 09, 2013, 03:57:12 PM
faux, remember, even if you just think you might need an extension, let me know and i'll bump it.  if you get it in, it'll host anyway.

almost 30 turns, no stales!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 09, 2013, 04:02:10 PM
I know we discussed this before but I'm wanting to bring it up again.  Could we bump it up to like a 36 to 40 hour time frame, my turns are starting to get a little complicated. So having the cushion of the second evening would be nice.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 09, 2013, 04:11:58 PM
yeah, winger, I think it is prob time for that.

ill change the timer to 36 hours after next hosting
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 11, 2013, 02:44:04 AM
I think something might be wrong with the Llamaserver right now. All the games say it hasnt updated in nearly 9 hours. For all we know we could technically have another turn by now...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 11, 2013, 04:14:01 AM
llama is having power supply problems.  he says should be good to go soon.

that guy is awesome, by the way.  'llamaserver' is some old 90s vintage hardware literally in his basement.  he is just some dude like you and me who sets it up and pays the power bill on it all year long. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 11, 2013, 04:54:18 AM
...Wow, that is pretty awesome.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 11, 2013, 06:06:01 AM
it appears llama is back in action.  we are waiting on our agarthan player now.  hope all is well
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 11, 2013, 06:59:34 AM
That's Faux, I think. he said he might need the extension, so it's nothing to worry about yet.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 11, 2013, 07:29:14 AM
That's Faux, I think. he said he might need the extension, so it's nothing to worry about yet.

Yeah. Will be posting my turn in few hours so don't worry.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 11, 2013, 07:40:36 AM
No rush. I have like 6 and a half hours before I get home, the later you post the less I'm changing to get home and see the results.

:D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 11, 2013, 12:24:31 PM
folks, Tygaros needs another hefty delay, so I guess you can take the weekend off from DOOOM.

he assures me this is not going to be a trend, and of course RL must be the priority.

delay should be reflected on llama now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 11, 2013, 05:54:26 PM
It is with sad regret that I must inform you of Vanheim's demise.  We can not salvage our situation even with economic or military aid.  I've gone ai.  Good gaming with you all and enjoy!  I have resided myself to retire to SP gaming until I am more proficient with Dom3. 

One day I will return to MP gaming in Dom3.   ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 11, 2013, 07:29:15 PM
(http://i.qkme.me/35569t.jpg)

OOC:  I spent a lot of gems and gold on that invasion force.  Easily over 100 magic gems.  I started recruiting the moment Vanheim appeared on my radar, because they have werewolves and that made Bad Wolf jealous.  Most of the summons were cheap, low-level stuff, that could be summoned in big groups, such as longdead via reanimation and Dire Wolves.  The giants in my squad were mainly there to crack the fort open quickly.

I doubt that strategy would have been as successful if you had decided to pick up a bless for your Vanir.  Then again, what you would have had to sacrifice for that bless is something I can't answer. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 11, 2013, 08:36:21 PM
Bless the Vanir?  Just one of the many nuances of the game I still don't understand fully.  That and the purpose of blood sacrifices.  You were a great opponent and I was surprised that your magic was kind of similar to Vanheim's spells.  You had the health regeneration spell that healed your troops which I tried to counter with my Legions of Steel.  I was also attempting to spam lightning but was not able to figure out how to consistently fire it.  Your wolves were indeed formidable.  My skinshifters had no chance. 

I was also trying to rush your rear with my Valkyries but couldn't get enough numbers fast enough to do as much damage as I had hoped.  And yes, your giants stunned me at how fast they were able to crack open my fortress walls.  Didn't give me much time to assemble a counterstrike so I hit you with whatever leftovers I had at hand.   I think I could have succeeded in liberating my capital if I had more men. 

All in all a good game though.  I did much better on this my second MP game than I did in my first game.  Good stuff!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 11, 2013, 09:16:50 PM
OOC: I took luck on my nation and it paid off fairly quickly.  I got a couple of early bonus gold events and also some events that gave some bonus magic gems.  That allowed me to erect a second fort quickly and start summoning units quickly.  I also got lucky and received a Frost Giant hero on turn 3, he was the big guy that could turn into an eagle.  He came with air magic, which allowed me to search for air magic sites and summon those Spring Hawks.  He was the guy firing those magic arrows at your commanders in your fort, by the way, as I wanted to weaken your defences ASAP.

Reanimation is on the Enchantment path.  It requires a caster with 1 death and in this mod it costs 2 death gems for 10 longdead.  I was surprised to see that Jotunheim summoned Longdead Giants in addition to the normal, human sized longdead.

Pack of Wolves is a Jotunheim special spell, denoted by being highlighted blue.  For 12 nature gems, it summons 20 Dire Wolves, which are fast, moderately tough and surprisingly effective against light armour.

When our forces clashed during the first year, that was deliberate.  I happened to have a scout in the area (luck again) so I moved my own army to intercept yours.  2 reasons, I wanted to know how much trouble I was in and I also wanted to deplete your own armies if I could.

Due to my borders being fairly tight, I had to attack someone if I wanted the room to expand.  I had limited intelligence on my neighbours at that time, but I figured that Vanheim was my closest target that I had a chance of being able to take out quickly.

Your Valkyries were effective at tearing up my back lines, so I made sure I kept a squad in the rear to minimise damage.  In larger numbers, it would have been game over for me.  Your archers were a good counter to my wolves.  Your infantry was leagues better than my goblins, but mixing them in with giants allowed them to hold the line long enough to do some damage (they also drew attacks away from my giants).  If I had not sent reinforcements (Call of the Wild and Call of the Winds; summoned the normal wolves and black hawks respectively), things would have gone very differently.  My army was close to routing a couple of times due to the significant losses inflicted.

By blessing your Vanir, I meant a bless with your sacred units (denoted by the candles on the unit).  The bless is determined by the magic paths your pretender god has.  If your god has 4 ranks in a magic path, those sacred units get a bonus when the bless spell is cast.  The exact effect depends on the magic path.  Nature magic, for example provides regeneration, air magic provides defence against missile attacks.  If your pretender has 9 ranks in a magic path, the effect gains a powerful rider, such as flaming, armour piercing weapons, supernatural quickness or additional armour (fire, water and earth, respectively).  That would potentially make your Van commanders hard(er) to stop, especially if they cast a few other magic spells to buff themselves.  It could also make your Valkyries very hard to counter, even a small squad.

tl/dr:  I got lucky, in no small part due to some favourable events during my first few turns of this game.  Thank you for putting up a good fight.  I hope you have the chance to return the favour in a future game.   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 11, 2013, 09:32:43 PM
You're welcome and thank you for the back story and explanations of the various spells.  I totally understand where you were coming from as my borders were as restricted as yours, maybe more.  Trouble with me was that I made friends with everyone around me except you.  The reason was our initial encounter.  Hence I never attempted to contact you diplomatically because I suspected that trouble was ahead.  Turns out I was right but I didn't realize how right I was at the time.   8)

That initial accident we had made me realize that something was not right.  I understand now what you did after you told me.  Well thought out and very Sun Tzu of you!  I admire your battle logic.  That accident indeed depleted that forces strength and caused me to postpone my invasion of the independents, which in turn bought you the time to grab most of them before I could. 

Ah and now I understand a little better what you mean about bless.  I need to re-create my Vanheim pretender now because he's not optimized as much as he could be if I am going to get bonuses from my bless spells. 

Thanks for the compliment about the fight.  I tried my best but I was limited in troop strength and location of my forces.  It took a while to assemble them into a good defense force, hence why I abandoned my provinces leading up to my capital. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 11, 2013, 09:55:14 PM
Yeah- I had a suspicion that there was no bless strategy going on with vanheim.  It's really their main effective strategy, and they expand quickly with a decent bless, so when I saw they weren't expanding, I figured they didn't have much of one.

Some nations are bless-focused, some aren't.   Pythium and Ulm, aren't.  Abysia and bandar can play with or without one.  Mictlan basically requires one. (no decent nonsacred units)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 11, 2013, 10:04:42 PM
Shinyu, is sort of hit or miss, the problem is they ave really and priests, and most of their sacreds are summons.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 11, 2013, 10:22:24 PM
I think Vanheim can go either way with a bless.  Those Skinshifters of theirs are pretty boss, so if they were to focus on income and start a few werewolf factories, they have good odds to run over the top of anyone before they had the time to prepare.  As I said, I just got lucky.

Their sacred units are pretty good too, so I can see a big bless making them devastating.  Small squads of elite units might have a hard time breaking through fortifications, though I guess they could just camp on a fort until you could raise the numbers to break through.

If I were going to play them, I would probably split the difference and go for income + a couple of minor blesses.  That way I could have both sacred units and lots of skinshifters to play with.  When I played a game as Fomoria (they have air magic too), I noticed that the nature bless (regeneration) works pretty well with the spell Mistform.  To be honest, I read a comment on another forum, by a player named Baalz that explained the synergy between Mistform and regeneration.  Mistform is a low level alteration path spell that greatly reduces the damage from attacks. The Van hardly ever get hit in melee, so when they do get hit, the damage is reduced, then they heal it almost immediately due to the bless.  I might try that out in a single player game to see how effective it is with Vanheim. 

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 11, 2013, 11:16:40 PM
It is with sad regret that I must inform you of Vanheim's demise.  We can not salvage our situation even with economic or military aid.  I've gone ai.  Good gaming with you all and enjoy!  I have resided myself to retire to SP gaming until I am more proficient with Dom3. 

One day I will return to MP gaming in Dom3.   ;D

You should take a look at this high-level spectator game over at Desura: http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/the-spectacle-of-perspicuity. Some of the players are even making videos explaining their thoughts turn by turn. Austen in particular has some pretty awesome vids and he's playing Helheim so you could pick up some nice tips for any Heim nation by watching those. You can also download all the turn files if you really want to see how they play. Here's a link to Austen's videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/dmitchell214/videos.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 12, 2013, 05:44:40 AM
a bit of history!!!

Balz was THE premier guide writer back in the heyday of vanilla(non cbm) dominions.  for whatever reason, he left the community, but his guides are great, and he comes up with some really unorthodox ideas.  keep in mind they are not cbm, but you can often get good ideas from his guides, and at the very least, they are fun to read.

Austen and I played in both of our first MP games!!  I should have killed him, but he beat me by cheating(read: we were both newbs, but he was a MUCH better player than I ;))

since then he has gone on to glorious things in the dominions world.  I, on the other hand, took a long hiatus, came back, and basically have not improved. :-[

the point, the point, what was the point????

oh, I remember!  he was a Vanheim specialist in those days.  By far his best nation.  so if anyone has any questions,(especially on Van/Helheim) PM him.  very helpful dude, and I bet he would get back to you.

also, if you are watching Austen's or Maerland's video(ryleh) take the time to leave a comment on the thread.  those videos take a long time to do, so give em a thanks and an attaboy!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 12, 2013, 07:06:00 AM
Ballz guides are awesome. He goes into great detail about stuff without putting so much information it doesn't make sense. Which is nice.

So nobody knows why he left. He probably got burned out after all those strategy guides and moved on to somhing else.

I'm watching the R'lyeh videos now, probably gonna watch the heim ones later. I really like R'lyeh, want to play them in a game sometime.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 12, 2013, 07:32:25 AM
So nobody knows why he left. He probably got burned out after all those strategy guides and moved on to somhing else.

5 minutes on google and I found an answer.  He felt there was a bullying campaign directed toward him and others.  Players going by the name of Maerlande and Calahan make an appearance.  Feel free to check out their attitude towards Baalz and other players by doing a search of your own if you are interested.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on July 12, 2013, 09:41:37 AM
Quite a few active developers were chased off by that group. Finally one was banned from Shrapnel and others followed. They formed their own forum where they felt the true developers resided. They felt that Shrapnel had shot itself in the foot.

I used to argue the point. But it seems the developers of Dominions might be on board with it. That same group is now the moderators of the new official forums putting their concepts into hard rules. And they are the beta testers of Dom4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 12, 2013, 09:48:01 AM
Yeah. The forums that they jumped to when banned from shrapnel were the first forums I actually joined. Then I redirected here hen this game fired up. They all seemed like pretty decent peoples. Maybe slightly elitist prices, but that happens, and it sounds like they have the knowledge, and experience to back it up.

If half of what they said about Baalz is true, that is sad, but it further justifies his guides, his guides are all about maximizing the strengths of you nation mostly in early game. At least that's what I got out of it.

The key is, and this I definitely agree with Callahan on, is that you have to understand that guides are describing perfect situations, and those are rare. But the key is that the guides can show you what a nation is capable of, it's strengths, weaknesses, and then you have to go from there. Which imo Baalz guides do very well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 12, 2013, 11:33:58 AM
Players going by the name of Maerlande and Calahan make an appearance.

Colour me surprised...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 12, 2013, 03:20:15 PM
what key words did you use phobos? 

Callahan's version of why Baalz left was quite different...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on July 12, 2013, 03:27:22 PM
The thing I liked about Baalz guides (and others) is that they tried to have fun with the nation. Often in a way that matched the nations theme.

That did tend to draw comments from spreadsheet players focused on winning and deciding the worth of one unit against another down to a single gold. Altho I understand the concept of their favorite guides, I tended to find them boring.

Maybe its because Im more of an RPGer instead of a Strategy gamer. I like the creative games or solo play so any fun strategies were enjoyable for me to read.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 12, 2013, 04:05:47 PM
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=421

That's the page I found where Callahan goes on his rant.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 12, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
the really frustrating thing about Callahan is that he is SO offensive, SO condescending, which would be ok

but he is often SO right.


he called me out and shit all over me probably 5 times over at dommods, but most of the time, he was pretty much right.  now, I wasn't present at the Baalz thing(WAY before my time) but he probably wasn't all wrong.

anyway, here's to hoping Baalz some day pokes his head back into the dominions community.  I, for one, would absolutely love to play him(and likely get totally owned)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 12, 2013, 09:32:57 PM
People that seek validation from those that consistently give them abuse have emotional issues.  Talk to a therapist.

Regardless of the other circumstances of Baalz' departure from the Dominions 'community,'  the fact remains that he was put on a blacklist by the so called leaders of this community, where they went on to mock him at length.  That gives Baalz's claims of an orchestrated campaign of bullying plenty of credence, without knowledge of any of the other circumstances surrounding his departure.  It could simply be a self-fulfilling prophesy, or there may be more to it that a simple search engine is incapable of revealing.

Personally, I find the whole matter abhorrent.  I can only hope that certain toxic elements leave their taint off the next iteration of the game.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 13, 2013, 01:09:45 AM
Personally, I find the whole matter abhorrent.  I can only hope that certain toxic elements leave their taint off the next iteration of the game.

If you just ignore Dom3mods community altogether you can avoid 90% these elitist powerfreaks. I assume their little ivory tower will become increasingly irrelevant especially with the influx of new players after Dom 4 has launched and Desura being the new official forum anyway.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 05:09:43 AM
excuse me sir?  I in no way am 'seeking validation' from anyone.

actually, it was comments EXACTLY like that one that caused me to exit the dommods community in search of a more friendly environment to spend 20 leisure minutes per day.  so, please refrain from you gratis observations of my mental state.

as far as my original statement I stick by it:  Callahan is so abrasive precisely because he is usually right.  it's easy to shrug off a rant if it is totally off base.  when you know someone has a point, it is more irritating.  that said, I don't really enjoy his comments all that much, and I think anyone who takes a computer game as seriously as he does and obviously gets off on shitting on other people might have a few issues.  I am not, however, so arrogant as to suggest to the guy he has problems though.  because that'd just be being a jerk, telling people on a message board to go see a therapist or something...

as far as 'toxic elements' and their 'taint' you are playing a game heavily modified and improved by those folks, who did it all for free.  also, it's pretty unlikely that the next iteration wil be free of their 'taint'(ie, influence/improvements) due to the fact that those folks were singled out by illwinter to playtest dom4.

ok, that's enough of that unpleasantness :-X
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Yskonyn on July 13, 2013, 05:49:58 AM
Quote from: Phobos
People that seek validation from those that consistently give them abuse have emotional issues.  Talk to a therapist.

Unless you forgot the smileys and posted this as a hamless mocking I think this was pretty uncalled for, Phobos. :(

(...)  when you know someone has a point, it is more irritating.

Oh.. as in the old discussions with the wife? :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 05:53:33 AM
Ysk, does it matter if the wife is right?  cus whether she is right or not, you better listen or there ARE going to be consequences! :o



that said...my wife IS usually right, now that I think about it
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 13, 2013, 06:01:55 AM
It's not uncalled for at all.

Every single time Calahan gets brought up, Parone comes along and details what an antisocial personality the guy has, goes on about how he has suffered abuse from this guy...then proceeds to apologise for Calahan, as though the abuse was somehow justified.

That is not okay.  If you think it is, you should seek professional guidance on how to deal with arseholes.  A therapist can help with that. 

edit:  and this has nothing to do with your mental state, otherwise I would have suggested a psychiatrist.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 06:14:16 AM
another personality trait that could probably use professional guidance is that one where people insist they are right even when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

I thought this was a dom forum, but I guess it's fun to have a mental health diversion...

also, I make no apologies for Callahan's behavior, and have actively sought to avoid him.  that said, when it comes to dominions, that guy has his shit squared away.  I, you, and virtually every other player have benefited from his efforts, and i'm not such an self absorbed douche wad that I don't acknowledge it.  so I give him credit for THAT, while not apologizing for his behavior.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 13, 2013, 06:36:33 AM
This came up because someone wanted to know where Baalz went, so I did a search for his name + dominions 3.

You responded with "Calahan...So offensive, so condescending, but so right", so forgive me if I took you for a trauma-bonded abuse victim.  It's good that you are avoiding someone like that, but don't expect me not to comment if you make excuses or apologise for his behaviour.  I don't care if he programmed Dominions himself, he's still a dick, first and foremost, because of the way he has behaved.         
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Yskonyn on July 13, 2013, 06:50:06 AM
Ironically, just the same I responded to your reply, Phobos.
While not dare calling you a 'dick' for that response, I did find it pretty impolite to Parone.
You can also make your point without resorting to insulting people.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 06:50:38 AM
i'm wondering how many times i'd have to say i'm not apologizing for his behavior, but merely pointing out that at times it's worth tolerating him due to his helpfulness, before that'd hit home.  I believe I did say he was an interesting character, which he is, but I'm not sure that makes me a calahan apologist.

anyway, lets put this to bed.   I probably should have let the whole thing go, but for some reason I find it insulting when people who know me only through a message board start psycho-analyzing me.

more gaming, less arguing!!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 13, 2013, 07:03:34 AM
The unfortunate truth is that many of the best and most knowledgeable people within.a community turn into complete elitist pricks. I saw it in world of warcraft, I saw it in another online game community.  It is usually the people who spend hours and hours testing things and studying things, and learning the ins and outs of whatever is the subject of their obsession. So unfortunately you can't argue with them when they say things because they are right.

Does that give them the right to be assholes, no.  But even though you can't stop that, you can't not listen to them. You just have to ignore the bullshit they spout, cut the the useful knowledge and go from there.

What I read in what pardoned said was basicall" The guy is an ass hole, but he is right. I got tired of him and left"

As far as Baalz is concerned. Do I believe they attacked him, yes. Do I believe he deserved it, no. Do I think they had a point, maybe, if half of what they said was true he was kinda being a jerk, but I don't know I wasn't there. Does that make me respect Ballz any less, no, everything that they were complaining about was exactlywhat  Baalz guides talk about. Would I play with Callahan, or Baalz, sure I would and I would get stomped and honestly I don't ever expect to be as good as them because I don't know anything about the internal workings.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 13, 2013, 07:27:42 AM
Hey guys, hows the game coming along?  Although I've been vanquished and no longer in the game I still am curious about it's outcome.  DOOM is like a good movie.  Just because the movie theatre manager kicked me out of the theatre for being too loud doesn't mean I don't care how the movie ends.   :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 13, 2013, 07:43:32 AM
I agree with parole, back to the game.

Well W8 game has stalled for now, until Tuesday. I can send you my ten and 2h files if you like, that way you can see the world through my eyes at least.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 13, 2013, 08:32:48 AM
I was not attempting to psychoanalyse anyone.  However, I used to work with family services and community outreach while I was studying, so certain things trip red flags for me.  I don't see any stigma in suggesting that people look for help or guidance from a neutral third party, nor do I place any stigma on those people who actually get help.

If you want to interpret my motives at a personal attack, that's ok.  Noted.  I'll drop the issue.

Just don't get upset if I 'psychoanalyse' your play style and use that to my advantage.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gp1628 on July 13, 2013, 09:34:21 AM
Personally, I find the whole matter abhorrent.  I can only hope that certain toxic elements leave their taint off the next iteration of the game.

If you just ignore Dom3mods community altogether you can avoid 90% these elitist powerfreaks. I assume their little ivory tower will become increasingly irrelevant especially with the influx of new players after Dom 4 has launched and Desura being the new official forum anyway.

I hate to point out that almost the entire moderation of the new OFFICIAL  Dom3 and Dom4 forums is being done by the Dom3mods people. And almost all of the Beta Testing for Dom4 is also dom3mods people.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 13, 2013, 11:14:07 AM
Grogheads is a nice place to be.  Pretty much everyone here is nice and easy to get along with.  Don't take anything personally and feel free to be honest when you discuss issues.  We're all big boys here and we can get along, just be understanding of your fellow man and his different opinions.   ;)

@Wingedflamez

Thank you for the offer to share your previous turns.  I'd love to check out your strategy if only to help me for my next game.  I'm still pondering how to rebuild my pretender for Vanheim.  I like Vanheim though and will probably stick with them for a while before moving onto another nation.

PM me for my email.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 13, 2013, 11:47:47 AM
I hate to point out that almost the entire moderation of the new OFFICIAL  Dom3 and Dom4 forums is being done by the Dom3mods people. And almost all of the Beta Testing for Dom4 is also dom3mods people.

I'm aware of that. The atmosphere in Desura is still very different from Dom3mods. Also Edi is a nice fella so I have no problems with that. In fact I have no problems with any of the Dom3mods guys but I can see why some people do.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 02:22:13 PM
Phobos-feel free to psychoanalyze my play style.  so far, the kill ratio over in dom of grog has got to be, what, 6-1 in your favor!  good thing I have LOTS of troops, cus while I have taken a bunch of territory, I honestly think the casualty count for C'tis is approaching 1000.

out of curiosity, do you get an update of how many units your global(lightning hits in your dominion) is killing?  cus brother, there sure are a lot of dead lizards/undead in your territory.(are undead dead after you kill them?)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 02:24:15 PM
also, w8-there is often someone who needs a sub in these large games.  if that does happen, is it ok if I PM you and ask if you are interested?

also, did you every check out Austen's vids in spectacle of perspicuity over at desura?  I never watched em, but i'll bet they'd be very good for an up and coming vanheimer...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 13, 2013, 02:32:01 PM
winger, did you realize you called me 'parole'??? ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 13, 2013, 02:52:33 PM
Yeah after I posted and after a couple of replies I saw it, I was posting from my phone and the auto correct apparantly doesnt like your name.  :P
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 13, 2013, 04:22:30 PM
also, w8-there is often someone who needs a sub in these large games.  if that does happen, is it ok if I PM you and ask if you are interested?

also, did you every check out Austen's vids in spectacle of perspicuity over at desura?  I never watched em, but i'll bet they'd be very good for an up and coming vanheimer...

Hi parone,

I'd love to sub if there is ever a need.  PM with the request if needed.


Going now to check out those videos now actually.  Thanks for reminding me.  I need to become a better Vanheim player.   ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 13, 2013, 04:39:46 PM
I finished the r'yleh ones earlier and started the heim one. Are they the only 2 to did that or did the other 2 do it as well?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 13, 2013, 04:44:07 PM
I finished the r'yleh ones earlier and started the heim one. Are they the only 2 to did that or did the other 2 do it as well?

I believe Maerlande and Austen are the only ones doing vids. Turn files from all the players are available though. I like Austen's vids more because they're a bit longer and more indepth but both of them are doing a great job.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 13, 2013, 11:05:57 PM
out of curiosity, do you get an update of how many units your global(lightning hits in your dominion) is killing?  cus brother, there sure are a lot of dead lizards/undead in your territory.(are undead dead after you kill them?)

A message comes up during the list of normal battles, generally after all battles, but sometimes before some battles in the message list.  It gives a count of units wounded and units killed by Wrath of God.  It does not provide a breakdown by nation.

So far, I have been able to 'predict' a couple of attacks, but that just comes down to strategic awareness, more than any special comprehension of your plans.  It just buys my nation some time to slap together a few countermeasures.  The moment I have your play style figured out, you'll be the first to know.     
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on July 14, 2013, 03:11:27 PM
I watched a couple of Austens videos, the one where he covers his pretender make for Helheim and turn one of his PBEM game.  I like his detailed explanation and those two videos gave me a lot of food for thought.  I'll watch some more of his series to get better acquainted with this great game. 

Then I'll check out marmalades (sp?) videos.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 14, 2013, 05:51:57 PM
haha.  maerlande!!

I like marmalade
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on July 14, 2013, 10:53:33 PM
ok, I'm back in action, thanks for waiting
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 15, 2013, 05:28:05 PM
Come on guys. I'm going through withdrawal over here.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 15, 2013, 05:46:49 PM
love the enthusiasm winger :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 16, 2013, 02:43:19 AM
Guys, I was supposed to do my turn this morning before work but I totally forgot... :-[ I'd appreciate if the hosting could be postponed by few hours so I can send my turn this evening.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 16, 2013, 04:56:26 AM
going to delay 10 hours.  hope that's adequet.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 16, 2013, 05:23:05 AM
going to delay 10 hours.  hope that's adequet.

That will be plenty enough. Thanks!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 16, 2013, 05:27:36 AM
now we need pangea to check in...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 16, 2013, 05:54:48 AM
Thanks for the extension. 

I was planning to post mine in the next hour, but with the extension it may be a few hours later, but will be in several hours before deadline.

Bronwell of Pangaea
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 16, 2013, 06:15:13 AM
haha!   all our ducks are in a row! or centaurs or tartarians or whatever.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 16, 2013, 03:30:28 PM
Sorry for delay.

My turn was 90% done and my schedule was free at work so I figured I would quickly finish in 10 minutes and post this morning.  Instead it was a crazy day.  I will be home and post turn within the hour.  It will only be 1 hour before deadline but no extension is needed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 16, 2013, 03:32:42 PM
k bron.  heading out to celebrate the Mrs' birthday.  will have to check to see how many monkeys died later ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 18, 2013, 03:41:00 AM
checked in before work.  looked like pangea was cutting it close, so added 8 hours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 18, 2013, 03:51:09 AM
Thanks for the extension, but I am working on it now and will get it in on time.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 20, 2013, 04:13:24 AM
I'm not sure, but llamaserver may be down.  My turn is due in an hour and I am working on it, but just noticed that all of the llama games show last updated 4 hours ago, so I don't know if it will accept the turn when I turn it in.  Could we get an extension until it starts showing updates?  I will turn this turn in in about 30 minutes and will update as to whether I receive a message that it was accepted.

-Bronwell
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 20, 2013, 04:43:57 AM
gonna put in an 8 hour extenstion on my way out the door
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 20, 2013, 05:04:47 AM
For what it's worth.. I sent my turn in.. but no response from llama yet... still shows not updated for 5 hours and no confirmation that my turn received.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 20, 2013, 05:06:41 AM
yeah.  the old girl(llamaserver) musta hit a bump in the night.

I sent llamabeast a message.  he'll get it back up.  always does
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 20, 2013, 05:15:10 AM
Thanks.  I just checked and resent my turn.  It is now a few minutes past the turn post time and still showing 2 turns missing and saying neither I nor Agartha turned in turns.  Also still shows that it will post a few minutes ago.

Do I need to resend my turn once it comes back up?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 20, 2013, 05:47:12 AM
Bron-

nope,you should be fine. 

actually, the delay isn't really necessary, as I have heard that the server will process the turns when it gets booted back up, and stales will be avoided, but why take the chance.

on another not Bron, have you checked your messages here on grogheads?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 20, 2013, 08:21:46 AM
I also did my turn earlier but llamaserver just seems to be down.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 20, 2013, 03:43:24 PM
So is there any word on llama yet?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 20, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
no word
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 21, 2013, 02:53:47 AM
Still not up... starting to worry slightly.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 21, 2013, 04:45:01 AM
it does make you wonder, "what would we do without the llamaserver" :-\
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 21, 2013, 03:05:24 PM
I will go ahead and tell you now, my access next weekend is going to be sketchy at best, I am going out of town and don't know if I will have internet access or time to take my turn, I am taking my laptop with me so if I have the opportunity I will.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 21, 2013, 03:07:57 PM
very good winger.  pm me or drop a line here when you head out so that I can extend the interval.

hopefully we will be playing by then...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 21, 2013, 04:06:02 PM
With how long the server has been down, I would guess its probably a hardware problem. Having to get a replacement part would explain the time taken.

Might be wrong though, my knowledge of computers is merely average.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 21, 2013, 04:09:24 PM
Where is llama based?  US? Europe?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 21, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
...Everyone knows Llamas come from South America.... :P
 :o
*goes off to sit in a corner by myself*
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 21, 2013, 04:51:52 PM
haedalas-

you may very well be correct.  however, llama has not responded to me or any of the 'heavies' over at dommods who have tried to contact him, which is unusual. I'm pretty sure he'd drop one of us a line to tell us if that was the problem.

perhaps he is away?  hard to know, really... :'(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 21, 2013, 06:57:38 PM
according to the llamaserver FAQ, he guesstimated the hardlimit at around 100 games.  Might have come up to that.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 21, 2013, 07:00:53 PM
yeah there are 125 games currently registered on llamaserver right now
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 21, 2013, 07:14:34 PM
does that mean we crashed the server?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 21, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
Everybody is gonna get a stern talking to and llama gonna be like quit breaking my shit bitches.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 22, 2013, 03:13:35 AM
haerdalas was, in fact, correct. 

llama was away all weekend.  when he got back, his computer had gone kaput. 

he is attempting repairs.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 22, 2013, 03:31:04 AM
And his inbox was blown-up with emails asking what was wrong.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 22, 2013, 07:41:39 AM
I wonder if the turn I sent just after the server went down has been saved or do I have to send it again.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 22, 2013, 01:40:33 PM
Either it will have gone in and been processed, in which case no problem, or things are more serious, in which case the turn will probably have to be redone by all anyway. I wouldn't worry about it yet.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 22, 2013, 02:38:11 PM
theoretically, if the turns have to be resubmitted, you can just resend them(u wouldn't have to redo them)

I think all the sent turns will process, however
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 22, 2013, 05:26:31 PM
Well, turn processed.  Anyone get it yet?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 22, 2013, 05:27:39 PM
I have not gotten it yet.

EDIT:  I sent a resend request and received it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 22, 2013, 06:44:04 PM
folks, I don't know what's going on exactly.  I haven't gotten my turn yet, despite requesting a resend, and I don't know how it is going to go for all of you, so I am going to extend the turn interval 24 hours to give everyone breathing room, and I may delay it further if need be.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on July 22, 2013, 07:23:35 PM
I also did not get a turn file yet
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 22, 2013, 08:40:43 PM
just got my requested resend.  It looks like llama server is just running a little slow.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 22, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
I haven't got turn 31 and it seems that my turn 30 was ignored... Requested a resend now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 22, 2013, 11:39:38 PM
Yay! It's up.

.... I have to go to work now. So long to wait for my turn...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 23, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
Bron-

awesome use of poison.  kudos!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 23, 2013, 01:28:06 PM
Folks:


just a quick reminder:

move blocking is a banned exploit.  if you are using small groups of troops/scouts and attacking other players specifically to prevent their armies from moving, DO NOT DO SO AGAIN.

this is universally recognized as a flaw in the game, do NOT exploit it.

There is no debate on this.

ok, I hate that crap.  that's the lousy part of being an admin.  now I can go back to being my happy, carefree, underachieving self.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 23, 2013, 01:32:49 PM
I do have a question about that.

With that in mind, if I were to attack ith a scout simply to get information about an enemy army would that be considered using the exploit?  Even though the intent was not to keep them from moving it was simply a scouting attack.

EDIT:  not that I would do anything to break the rules, I'm not that big of an asshole. But I am a little interested in that particular rule. I know it may not be something that the designers intended to be part of the game. But the idea of utilizing, or even sacrificing a small group of units to slowdown, harry, or immobilize a larger attacking forcetherby giving your main army either time to prepare or time for reinforcements to arrive has been used for hundreds of years. I'm pretty sure sun Tzu talks about that in the art of war, could be wrong though, been awhile since I read it.

As I said I am not going to knowingly and purposely break a rule. I am just curious.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 23, 2013, 02:01:55 PM
Winger:

I seem to remember that there was a way to 'scout' without move blocking.

I think you had to have the scout in the province(hiding) and then 'unhide', which would allow your opponent's army to still move.

but I do NOT KNOW that, so I have never tried it. 

one thing, of course, if the enemy is marching against you, Is to make sure you have at least 1 PD.  then you can see the enemy army with no danger of move blocking.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 23, 2013, 02:29:06 PM
Winger:

I seem to remember that there was a way to 'scout' without move blocking.

I think you had to have the scout in the province(hiding) and then 'unhide', which would allow your opponent's army to still move.

but I do NOT KNOW that, so I have never tried it. 

one thing, of course, if the enemy is marching against you, Is to make sure you have at least 1 PD.  then you can see the enemy army with no danger of move blocking.

It's pretty much this. Sending a scout to attack a border province is pretty lame if there's a possibility of the opposing army advancing. You have to have the scout in the province first and then choose the attack current provice option.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 23, 2013, 02:32:54 PM
EDIT:  not that I would do anything to break the rules, I'm not that big of an asshole. But I am a little interested in that particular rule. I know it may not be something that the designers intended to be part of the game. But the idea of utilizing, or even sacrificing a small group of units to slowdown, harry, or immobilize a larger attacking forcetherby giving your main army either time to prepare or time for reinforcements to arrive has been used for hundreds of years. I'm pretty sure sun Tzu talks about that in the art of war, could be wrong though, been awhile since I read it.

As I said I am not going to knowingly and purposely break a rule. I am just curious.

The problem with this in Dominions is that you can send a single unit and it can prevent even the largest army in the world from moving.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 23, 2013, 06:21:23 PM
In modern warfare a single man can disrupt an entire army. The right vehicle destroyed on the right road, the right bridge destroyed, a rockfall in a tight canyon, all of these can delay and army for days if they have to rebuild or reroute.  And all of them can be caused by a single person or small team.

I heard an account one time of a single sniper causing an entire platoon to hold position for like 48 hours because he killed so many men so fast they thought his position was defended by more than 1 man.  I think it was like 15 shots 15 headshots in like 45 seconds.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 23, 2013, 07:06:40 PM
prob true about small numbers disrupting formations(lots of stories about heavily armored tiger tanks holding up entire companies in the bocage in wwIi)

However...

move blocking in dom is still an exploit >:(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on July 24, 2013, 11:03:29 PM
It's not an exploit if that 1 unit is a thug though, is it? 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 25, 2013, 05:56:00 AM
no.  if it a legit military maneuver, you're fine.

if you are doing it expressly to stop the enemy stack from moving, that is a nono.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 25, 2013, 11:57:00 AM
Could  I possibly get a 24 hour  extension?  I still hope to get it in today but no way to know.  Home with sick 20 month old.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 25, 2013, 03:37:24 PM
Shit, I think we are about to stale...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 25, 2013, 03:38:53 PM
Shit, I think we are about to stale...

No worries about me -- I just sent my turn. Not so sure about Bronwell though. Maybe we need a vice admin in a different timezone for situations like this.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 25, 2013, 04:05:30 PM
Yeah, the extension was asked for several hours ago, but as Parone wasn't here, nothing could be done. Which timezone is he in anyway? America, I assume...


Still half an hour left, I suppose...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 25, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
I am willing to do assistant admin. I'm the same time zone as par but I am only out of access of he message board for about 5-6 hours a day. While I'm asleep. I love having a smart phone. I don't know how I survived without one when I was younger.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 25, 2013, 05:24:57 PM
Huh, look at that.... he got it in on time. Well done Bronwell
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 25, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
hey all.  im east coast std.

just got home(8:30 pm) so unfortunately, I did not get here in time to help out.  damd 15 hour work days are cutting into my dominions time!!!



winger, im pretty beat, but i'll pm you the password tomorrow, as it'd be great to have help-my schedule is totally whacky.


Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 26, 2013, 11:18:35 AM
ohh.... my flying Monkeys failed...

Curse you Dorothy! I know you are behind this somehow!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 27, 2013, 09:02:16 AM
Can I get a 16h extension. Can't do my turn at all today.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 27, 2013, 09:12:35 AM
I would but Parone hasn't sent the password yet.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 27, 2013, 10:50:21 AM




faux-got ya, turn extended

winger-password on the way
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 27, 2013, 10:56:31 AM
sub needed:  over in 'slow game'.  mudguard.  in a good but not great position.  at war with a fading ermor, allied with monstrous pangea.

might be fun.  prob wouldn't take you long...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 27, 2013, 01:34:49 PM
What faction? I might be interested, past this coming week I dont really have any obligations that would restrict my time, so...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 27, 2013, 03:22:23 PM
lol.  I typed it wrong.

mid-guard(it keeps autocorrecting)

I honestly don't know what their strengths are.

even if you could do just a quick job, it'd be way better than AI.  sometimes these 'nothing to lose' sub jobs are the best.

that said, they are far from a non factor.  good sized empire and forces.  I honestly don't know too much about them.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 27, 2013, 03:29:39 PM
So a late age game?

Well, on the understanding that failure is likely (not knowing a thing about what I am doing with Midguard), I am willing to sub in.

I am not sure how this works now. Do you need my email to send to the Llamaserver?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 27, 2013, 04:52:55 PM
yes, pm it to me.  Im not the admin, ysko is.  so I guess you could send it to him...

this is great news!!!

subs are the unsung heroes of dominions.  much thanks haerdalas-i owe you one.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 27, 2013, 06:30:40 PM
No problem, I want to get as much Dominions practice in as possible for the release of Dom 4 in a while.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 27, 2013, 10:25:59 PM
Do you think that the dom3 community is going to die out when dom4 releases? Or do you think that dom3 will still be played?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 28, 2013, 03:21:17 AM
I think it will still be played, but most will likely move to Dom4. The community however will likely remain the same, just playing a slightly different game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on July 28, 2013, 07:40:08 AM
Starting to run out of time, can ParOne or Winged  perhaps give a bit more of an extension?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 28, 2013, 07:51:22 AM
Yeah. I'm gonna put another 6 hours on it. Cause I'm gonna be out of signal for about 2 hours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on July 28, 2013, 08:23:45 AM
Thanks for the brief extension.. was running out of time.  I'll get mine in in the next hour.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on July 28, 2013, 12:23:07 PM
I'm very sorry about the delay. Things didn't go quite as planned... Gonna do my turn in a moment.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on July 30, 2013, 06:50:04 AM
I am putting a small delay in I got my turn done like 90 percent last night but wasn't able to finish it. Got home later than planned, and then all of the family was there. I am going to try to finish as soon as I get home from work though.

Also just want to say DLST is bullshit and makes keeping track of time a pain in the ass sometime.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on July 30, 2013, 10:21:18 PM
This got posted in another thread, but it looks like 'scores' are now available on llamaserver due to the outage.  I don't think it would be fair to retain this sort of information advantage, so I am sharing it until it can be fixed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on July 31, 2013, 03:44:53 AM
very fair alastair(hey, that rhymes :D)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 02, 2013, 12:19:40 PM
Requesting a delay till monday.  I have intermittent wifi access.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 02, 2013, 02:26:59 PM
ok.  ill add a bit of time
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 02, 2013, 02:29:00 PM
added 24 hours, if you need more, let me know.

34 turns, ZERO stales.

awesome ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 02, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Does anything in particular happen because of a stale?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 02, 2013, 03:30:37 PM
I dont think so, I think it is more just a bad sign of a game going downhill.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 04, 2013, 05:00:29 AM
I'm putting more time in since Alistair needed til tomorrow.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 04, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
Appreciated.  I'll get my turn in hopefully tonight when I get home.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 07, 2013, 02:32:41 PM
Ok. Sorry for this guy's. Having someproblems with my internet, namely I can't get internet on my computer, something is messed up with my wireless. I am trying to get the problem solved but it is slow going. Will try to work out an alternative in the next day or so.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 07, 2013, 07:11:09 PM
no worries winger.  make sure to let us know if you need an extension.  in fact, let us know if you even might need and extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 09, 2013, 09:53:57 AM
I'm gonna tack on a few more hours to the host time. Stupid WiFi, it worked fine last night and isn't working today, gonna try to get it running by tonight.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 09, 2013, 01:40:30 PM
I know the problem, friend. I know the problem. The number of times my WiFi has decided to stop working for me is ridiculous. Luckily, it is generally of the type of problem fixable by either switch-off-switch-on, or just letting a bit of time sort things out. I hope you get things fixed.


Also, a small heads up for everyone. I am going on holiday for 2 weeks at the beginning of next month, and though I should be able to get WiFi there and use my laptop, if I suddenly start staling, you know the reason.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 09, 2013, 01:58:50 PM
I think that this problem is eing caused by a POS burned out router. We have been stressing the WiFi pretty hard recently, and the router was carp to begin with. We are going to hopefully soon, replace the entire system and get a modem and router that are separate, and get a router that isn't a piece of crap.

As long as you able to get WiFi and don't take Toooo long, between me and Parone we can probably extend the turns to keep you from staling.

If nobody has a problem with that. >:)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 09, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
how are you accessing the internet right now? is there no way you can use that to send in your turn?

and yeah, I really really hope I do get WiFi. I should do, but it has been known for the WiFi to stop working sometimes. On the other hand, since this is just one of many things I use the internet for all the time, if I -do- get stuck without access, I generally go looking for somewhere not too far away with free WiFi anyway, so I should be alright. Very, very minimal chance of it affecting anything.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 09, 2013, 02:07:56 PM
Smart phone with an unlimited data plan. Don't have the ability to make it a mobile hotspot though. Would have to pay for that or root my phone neither of those options are viable though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 09, 2013, 03:49:45 PM
hmm.  no turn/word from bronwell... :(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on August 11, 2013, 09:24:20 AM
Can I get a 24h extension? I won't be home until very late today.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 11, 2013, 09:24:55 AM
Will do.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 11, 2013, 12:04:52 PM
Something is going on with llamaserver, I put in the 24 hour postponement and it gave confirmation that it had changed said it would host at 2200 on Monday, but on the main page for the game it still says it is going to host at 2200 today.

EDIT: NM it finally updated.  I was concerned because I put it in twice.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 11, 2013, 09:33:57 PM
Just letting you all know that I have a bunch of interviews/networking over the next week or two, so I might be a little Touch-and-Go with my turns for a bit.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 12, 2013, 02:51:00 PM
Do we need to extend for pythium and Pangaea? 

I know Alistair said things would be up and down for him.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 12, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
I can't speak for Alastair, but my turn is already in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 12, 2013, 03:46:52 PM
Getting pretty close to the deadline and Alistair is still not done... might be worth giving him a few more hours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 13, 2013, 02:27:30 PM
I got it in 10 minutes before the old deadline, but thanks anyways!

Looks like WAR has come from Jotunheim.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 13, 2013, 02:44:58 PM
Oh? There is War between Jotunheim and Pythium? Interesting.

Try and kill whichever wizard is casting those global spells, please.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 13, 2013, 03:07:08 PM
yes alastair.  the hopes and dreams of the whole world march with the armies of the Emerald Empire... ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on August 14, 2013, 07:34:48 AM
Ooh a war between Jotunheim and Pythium.  Seeing that Jotunheim killed me guess who I'm rooting for?   ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
And seeing as Jotunheim has cast not one but two Global spells which attack other players indiscriminately, guess who -every other player in the entire game- is rooting for.

Seriously Jotun, Casting those kind of spells at this stage of the game is just a really really bad idea.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 14, 2013, 02:38:08 PM
I actually think its a pretty good idea.  This is likely to be the war that really matters at this point, and they give him an edge- and prevent casual raiding.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 02:41:08 PM
if it remains a 1 vs 1, you are right. 

if others jump in to snuff the globals, not so much.

only time will tell...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 02:42:33 PM
and who knows?  some people like to be public enemy #1...

now that I think about it, that'd be kind of a fun thing to do in a game-get off by yourself and cast lots of nasty globals.

of course, my idea of fun isn't always the most popular one.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 03:46:20 PM
Yeah, well. Pretty certain that now Jotun is tied up fighting Pythium, others will join in. I would do so myself had I a border with Jotun, these damn spells keep killing my priests, and those guys are expensive, dammit.

Talking of which, the majority of my income right now is going to the upkeep of those mages, anyone else in that position?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 04:18:50 PM
I blame jotun for that too. Blasted cold weather. Making my people sick and poor. Not to mention 2 magic sites that enhance death in my province.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 04:34:48 PM
Sickness I can deal with, I have healers after all. Its the packs of wolves the keep tearing them apart, or mysterious electrical discharges from clear, cloud-free skies that keep getting them. Lightning resistance did not come as standard with my model of Mage-Priest I am afraid...

Talking about sickness, something in my sea province seems to be making all my men diseased. Any idea which site that could be? According to the wiki, none of the sites that spread disease can appear in water... I am confused.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 04:40:26 PM
no doubt, those globals are a pain.  but are they a pain enough for someone to hit Jotun?  perhaps not.  maybe Phobos' gamble will pay off.

the beauty of dominions, to me, is that there are so many different ways to play, risks to take.  Phobos' play style is a pain.  but it's also different.

I like different :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 14, 2013, 04:59:36 PM
Want me to call the whaambulance?

A number of players colluded to take down Pangaea.  My globals did not go up until that happened.  I was in the position of either joining in on the gangbang like a cowardly little conformist, or starting an orgy of destruction of my very own.

Those were my choices.  I could collude with the majority and end up with 2 strong neighbours, that I would still be forced to deal with at some point in time.  I could do nothing, and then have stronger neighbours while my nation stagnated.  Or I could cast a couple of spells that would weaken everyone, then make a grab for power.

There are no victims here, just choices.  Inaction is a choice.  The majority of the players in this game have allowed Shinuyama and Pythium to expand aggressively.  Allowing them to conquer Jotunheim will just make them bigger, but it might buy the rest of you craven fools a few turns.

I made the choice to attack now, rather than wait for the tag team to turn on me.  By cheering this tag team on, you are actually supporting your own future conquerors.  Have a little foresight an imagine what the map will look like in 15 or 25 turns.  Make a choice.  Play aggressively and deal with future, as well as present threats, or sit in the corner and wait for those threats to grow beyond your ability to control.

FFS.  Bring the motherfucking ruckus. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 05:30:29 PM
I'm not whining. I was actually joking sorry if it didn't come across that way. I will say I'm not sure if I would have done exactly what you did. But you had the power and you used it. Can't fault you on that.

The reason I wouldn't have done exactly what you did though is this, you threw up multiple globals that damage everyone, not just pythium and myself. Which means that what fight Pangaea had to fend off everyone is damaged. Now that isn't a big problem.since you just separated pan and pythium.  And now or course most people want your globals.down, you are killing their priests, randomly destroying provinces and dropping their income and supplies. And 2 turns ago you were also randomly destroying troops by the dozen without blinking an eye, no chance to miss, and no additional cost past the initial, which I know was great but still.

Also I take offense. I did not expand aggressively. I have only taken like 9 provinces by force, and all of them were targets of opportunity, and 5 of them I warned the target I was coming.  How many did you take conquering Vanheim?

But again you had the power and you used it. I probably would have done the same. No hard feelings, and if you win I salute you. Just as I will do if anyone wins.  Just don't expect me to not be like
Dammit you killed my priest.

I would like to ask though. After the game is over anyone who has the files saved, I would like to sort of piece together what happened through the course of the game.

Parone, do you know if there is a way to do that from the server? I know you can roll a turn back,, but how far will it go?

Rant done.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 06:14:47 PM
I am pretty much in agreement with the above post. I can sort of see why you did it, just don't expect to cast spells killing my priests and not have me want those spells stopped.

Incidentally, there is now peace between me and Pangaea, as attempting to take most of their provinces would leave me hopelessly overstretched.

It is true that Shinu and Pythium have both grown very large, and of course, in the fullness of time, something must be done about it (though due to Shinu's low research, I think they are going to be less of a potential game-ender).  I just think you made your move a bit too early. Then again, I have relatively little knowledge of your true strength right now. Given your level of research is beyond even mine, it is entirely possible that you may well be able to take Pythium on, despite the difference in size. If you can, kudos to you, and thanks for dealing with what is shaping up to be the biggest future problem. It will make things more interesting for my spies, anyway.

But I still hope your Global spell mages die.


EDIT: I dont have the files saved as such, but I have all the new turn Emails lying around, so if someone wants them after the game, sure. It would certainly be interesting to see what exactly other people were doing while my secluded little nation has been fiddling with the nature of reality.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 06:20:53 PM
are you implying, phobos, that shinu and pythium are allied?  that would be interesting...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 14, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
I am attempting to be emphatic, not come across as angry.

My point is that there are no friends in (sic. this version of) Dominions.  Only current and deferred targets.  Targeting everyone else is simply more efficient than targeting a select few.  There are no real victims to indiscriminate strikes, as opposed to colluding with other nations, which is an active and conscious choice to victimise someone.

I would rather make a bold move and lose quickly, than be paralysed with inaction and bury my head in the sand.  Ignoring the current alliance between the two largest nations might have bought me a slow death, but it would not present any opportunities for me to win.

I have no sympathy or remorse, for any collateral damage to nations I share no borders with.  They are at fault for the current balance of power, as much as those nations that are actively working together.  I would potentially be attacking these nations at some point anyway, so why make the pretence of playing nice?  If they wish to go through Pythium, Shinuyama or Pangaea in order to strike at Jotunheim directly, I say bring it.  It they want to huddle in the corner and wait for death, then I hope it is slow, tedious and painful.

I will either lose this game quickly, which is preferable to losing slowly, or force a shift in the current balance of power, which may present me with an opportunity to win.  As the current tag-team champions have moved a significant chunk of their forces to Jotunheims border, their flanks are now as exposed as they are ever going to get.  If you wish to maintain the pretence of playing to win, now is the time to strike.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 06:26:15 PM
winger-I know of no way to review a game post mortem through a server.  while I am not terribly knowledgeable, I think I would have heard of that in my travels, so my guess is, it's a no go.

incidentally phobos, if you are right and those major powers are in fact allied, don't you think a counter alliance of other nations would be more effective than randomly striking at everyone?  diplo is very important in dominions.  blaming everyone for perceived short sighted play, then insulting them about it, is not likely to win any friends.

you are right, thinking ahead is a good idea.  but I assure you, being condescending to potential allies is not a game winning strat either...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 06:30:24 PM
I will state this. There is no "alliance" between pythium and shinyu. I am alot of things but not a liar.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 06:42:27 PM
also, I just gotta say this:

phobos' spells are great fun when you are the one casting them.  cast the global 'kindly ones' some time if you really want to annoy everyone.  I assure you, about the 6th time you kill off a really valuable mage of some enemy, you'll be squeeling with glee.  and while phobos is winning no friends, I bet he IS enjoying opening his turn files! :)

remember folks, we're supposed to be playing to have fun!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 06:44:34 PM
I am having fun. I love the circle logic I am putting myself through deciding where to strike and when. Who to talk to whi to ignore. Much better than SP or 2 player with AI.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 06:45:33 PM
The kindly ones kill blood mages don't they?


...I have a rainbow mage pretender. He has blood magic - I cant use it due to having noone else to search for blood slaves, so it was kind of wasted, but that still means I have one vulnerable mage.

...If anyone casts that, he is getting a small army as bodyguards. Rainbow mages dying hurts even more than cap-only priest-mages dying.


And yeah, so much better than Single Player. Trying to work out if i can afford to attack any given player right now is fun. There is that constant knowledge that victory is a distant possibility, but that at any time someone else, through diplomacy, skill, luck w/e, can potentially kill you. You just don't get that in single player - unless you get attacked in the first 10 turns by multiple enemies, you never really lose single player.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
haerdalus-

if you cast it, they'll never attack your own mages.  one of the sisters likes attacking blood mages, the others have their own preferences.  i'm not sure if they attack pretenders...but losing a rainbow would be brutal, because you lose one level in all paths(yes, I've had the honor).

winger-very glad to hear you are having fun, that being the point.  I totally agree that MP owns SP.  much more interesting/stressfull.  I particularly like diplomacy, although i'm not all that successful with it. 

this game is pretty cool for me, as I am very much a minor power, with the big boys(jotun, pythium, shinu, pan) far ahead of me in all scores.  I generally am an excellent early expander, and am usually heavily engaged at this point.  however, I quite enjoy my current situation of trying to stay out from underfoot while attempting to close the gap.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 06:59:12 PM
Ah, i always hesitated to cast it in single player due to not knowing if it hit your own mages. Good to know it doesn't.

Yeah, the loss of one level in all paths makes losing a rainbow mage infinitely worse than losing most pretenders - they typically only lose one or two levels total, rather than 6 or more.

Diplomacy is something I too enjoy greatly. I also like to think I am generally pretty good at it - good enough that I can sometimes talk my way out of situations I really should not have survived, though thankfully no such situations have occurred this game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 14, 2013, 07:09:50 PM
Are Pythium and Shinuyama working together for a joint victory?  No.

Are they coordinating their efforts to remove all other major players from the game?  Yes.  Jotunheim was asked to join in on their attack on Pangaea around 20 ago.  Jotunheim declined.  The ultimate goal of the tag-team is probably to put off fighting each other for as long as possible, in effect removing all other players from contention, so they can duke it out with each other in peace.  Their deferral of a war against each other, while they systematically expand against minor nations, that they both just happen to agree are threats or easy targets, is a classic example of how dichotomous divisions form in RL geopolitics. 

I disagree the only way to fight this monopolisation of power is with another alliance.  The chaos of a free-for-all is far more satisfying.

I am not going to play politics and make friends.  Everyone is a target for Jotunheim.  I will not apologise for that, or use honeyed words to portray a different image for my nation in this game.  You can view that as condescending if you like, but you should at least appreciate my honesty.  I have made a choice to act and I will accept the consequences of this choice.  How will you choose?
       
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 14, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
...I would like to point out that the whole alliance against Pangaea.... everyone was invited to that, because at the time Pan was far larger than any other nation. Pythium and Shinu have had an uneasy border for quite some time. I doubt they will be the last two nations standing, if only because one wipes the other out.

Anyway, it's 2AM here right now, so I need some sleep. Goodnight all.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 07:29:15 PM
I do not take your words as condecending. I think the difference between our thinking is this. I see everyone as a target because there is no shared victory. But I can work.to prevent being double teamed.

Because if nothing else was learned from real world warfare these 2 things have been. 1. Never get into a land war with Asia, and 2. trying to fight a 2 front war is the quickest way to get killed unless you are significantly larger than both of your opponents or you have vastly better defensive and offensive capabilities.

Also there is no reason to attack a target unless there is something to gain. I'm not completely sure but look at  C'Tis, I don't think they have gained any territory but I know they have been involved in a couple of fights which means they lost more than they have gained. So for them the pan attack was not worth it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 14, 2013, 07:35:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHx-kita75Y
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 14, 2013, 08:19:18 PM
Awesome.  I really need to watch that series, I keep meaning too and I get too caught up in other stuff.

Also I would like to point out that it is complete crap that I have not located a single territory with indy scouts.  That ruins like half of all my plans right there.  Very annoying.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 14, 2013, 08:40:37 PM
ok phob, I lobbed the 'condescending' bomb.  off the top of my head, here's why I 'view' it that way:

indicating that other players took part in a 'cowardly gangbang' to drop Pan.  that's condescending.   Pan was WAY too big to be handled alone.  but now you say other players have 'allowed' shinyu and pythium to grow too big?  which is it?  cowards for hitting pan, or not doing our job as world police on the others?  can't have it both ways...

I believe the term you used to describe the rest of us not chopping down Shinu and Pythium was 'craven fools'.  the idea that you see all and we have no clue?  that's condescending.

the idea that the rest of us are 'cheering on the tag team' of shinny and Pythium because we don't 'have a little foresight'?  that's condescending.

that idea that the rest of us are 'huddling in a corner waiting for death' ?  that's condescending.

let's see...

guilty
guilty
guilty
guilty.

I do agree, you're quite honest.  but mark my words, unless you get VERY good at this game, and then play against people who are VERY bad, you'll never win without playing the diplo game(unless, of course, you play a no diplo game, but that is another story :))

which is all quite fine.  but if you don't engage in diplo, don't complain about other's diplomatic decisions.  that's...

well, if I say what that is, i'll come across as condescending.  which would be pretty ironic.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 14, 2013, 10:13:32 PM
yes alastair.  the hopes and dreams of the whole world march with the armies of the Emerald Empire... ;)
You say this...and then this.
Quote
the idea that the rest of us are 'cheering on the tag team' of shinny and Pythium because we don't 'have a little foresight'?  that's condescending.


Quote
however, I quite enjoy my current situation of trying to stay out from underfoot while attempting to close the gap.
But you also say this...
Quote
that idea that the rest of us are 'huddling in a corner waiting for death' ?  that's condescending.

You're flip-flopping.  How political.  How diplomatic.  My position in this is simple and consistent; Everyone is an enemy, I'm going to fight you sooner or later, circumstances permitting.  I refuse to pretend differently, as that is how you actually win the game and get to view the victory message.  The game works this way by design.  If you want to pretend differently, you're either in for a rude awakening, or taking advantage of people.

You're about to see a major shift in the balance of power in the next few turns, because 2 of the bigger nations are fighting and a 3rd appears to be en route to join in as well.  It does not require great foresight to see a game defining turning-point is underway.  Picking sides and forming alliances might buy you some time, but it also buys your 'allies' some time as well.  Aggressively protecting your own interests at the expense of everyone else, might just create an opportunity for your nation to come out ahead once the dust clears.  If you meekly hide in the corner, I'll be here to tell you "I told you so," when the inevitable happens.

Getting caught up in alliances, diplomacy and promises, in the vain hope that someone else will politely let you win, or ignore you until you are ready to make your play, is not the way to achieve victory.  You don't need to have experience to figure that out for yourself.

This is not conceit or arrogance.  If my nation survives this conflict, I'm going to start picking other nations off, starting with the major threats first.  If the tag team survives, they are going to do the same before turning on each other, only there will be 2 of them you will need to worry about.   

   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on August 14, 2013, 10:29:48 PM
I have to say after reading the past two pages of exchanges I agree with Phobos on one statement.  Better to die quickly than have a long drawn out death. 

When Vanheim was destroyed in this game it happened quickly.  I appreciate that actually.  There is nothing more frustrating then having a false hope and hanging on by a string while your killer toys with you.  At least I died fast and that was that.  I don't like what happened to Vanheim but at least the end was quick, releasing me for other adventures elsewhere.  (Assassins Creed II, which btw is a great game)

I saw it coming to and didn't bother to engage in begging for my life either.  What would have been the point?  I admit I reached out to my neighbors but I did it in an indirect way.  Had any of them been in the position to directly aid me militarily would I have survived to turn 45?  Doubtful in my view because I'm not that good a player at Dominions...yet.  What happened to me was ultimately for the best and I learned a thing or two.  Dominions is a great game.  It's fast, brutal, and believe it or not...honest. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 14, 2013, 10:40:30 PM
The emerald empire does not "Tag Team" with Goblins, Giants, or Humans.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on August 14, 2013, 11:38:15 PM
What is up with this discussion? It's a game of Dominions and everyone is playing as they see fit. There's no need to explain one's actions as long as rules aren't being violated. Please keep your rants in character and don't take this game personally, please.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 15, 2013, 05:32:32 AM
quite right faux.

earlier in the thread I was trying to stick up for phobos' decision to cast his nasty globals-that's his choice.

but then he went on a rant about how everyone was playing 'wrong'-not like him, so I tried to curb that.

in short:  let's all allow eachother to play as we see fit.  diplo is fine(even encouraged)-badgering other players is not.

in short, please be respectful.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 15, 2013, 09:53:39 AM
I think it started out as comments about the illogic or logic behind putting up 4 hostile globals at the same time, then eventually folded back into the discussion that we had back before the game started about alliances and gang-ups.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 15, 2013, 11:14:26 AM
I think it is less a matter of Shinu and Pythium ganging up on people, but rather that they are in a sort of cold war. Neither dares to attack the other yet, particularly as there are lots of other players who could get involved and tip the balance. I think both are searching for some kind of advantage over the other.

Meanwhile, I sit quietly in my little empire, and plot.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Faux on August 16, 2013, 12:25:47 PM
I need an extension for this weekend. Preferably 48h so I could do my turn on sunday evening. 24h is also manageable.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 16, 2013, 12:26:54 PM
For this turn or next turn?

EDIT:  went ahead and added 48 to it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 16, 2013, 03:22:28 PM
folks, I think we have had an extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 16, 2013, 03:23:42 PM
Yeah. I wasn't sure if faux ment extension on this turn or for the next turn so I just went ahead and did it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 16, 2013, 03:27:00 PM
good job winger.  I just got home.  he has not submitted so it is likely you avoided a stale.

remember folks, give as much notice as you can when you need extensions.  without my trusty lieutenant, faux's dudes would have spent a whole month standing in one place ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 16, 2013, 03:38:01 PM
I doubt Machaka would have minded.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 17, 2013, 10:52:58 AM
I think you have a good point there.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 19, 2013, 07:49:26 AM
Ok.  It appears either I have a battle replay glitch or Pythium just somehow took advantage of a bug.  Perhaps someone can explain an alternate explanation. 

He just teleported in 2 Arch Theurgs to attack one of my water provinces at 92. (Feel free to nuke them ;)).  He also cast Awaken Kelp Ancient at the same province.   So I get a magic battle with 2 Arch Theurgs and the 2 Kelp Ancients in the Magic phase(before events).  As near as I can tell that should be impossible.  Awaken Kelp Ancient can't target enemy provinces.  I just tried it to confirm.  Otherwise my dryads would spam that at every water province on the map.  Kelp Ancients are immobile, and so they could not have moved there.  One of the Kelp Ancients also said home province of that particular province.

Is this a replay glitch, or does anyone have an alternate explanation?  Thank you.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 19, 2013, 08:02:37 AM
Kelp ancients have stealth.  Stealth attacks targeting a current province will take place in the magic phase.  That is my best guess.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 19, 2013, 08:09:20 AM
Even immobile units, except a very few, and be teleported, my guess is that is how it happened. They teleported in with the arch theurgs.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 19, 2013, 08:27:03 AM
A number of problems with those explanations.

First, the Kelp ancient was per the spell, so one commander(with no magic paths and no items) and one unit.  You cannot teleport a commander barring items or magic levels.

Two, the ancient unit said home province Northern Sea of Tears (where the battle took place)

Three, they are both immobile, so there is no way for an ancient commander to be moved barring gate stone (no feet for the astral boots).

Four, teleport can't bring in units, only the commander.  The only astral spell that lets you bring units with you to an enemy province is Astral Travel- a level 9 spell that costs 25 gems.

Five One of the Arch Theurgs had water so he could have used Traverse the Sea from one of his water provinces with a lab, except that can only target a friendly water province with a lab, and still wouldn't explain the Kelp Ancient commander.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 19, 2013, 08:29:54 AM
I will try to do some testing later. It does seem weird. And for Some reason the cbm examiner isn't helping with that spell.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 19, 2013, 09:53:56 AM
I think someone said that kelp ancients are stealthy...

I don't suppose the province used to belong to Pythium did it? It does seems unlikely, but it is possible that that kelp ancient has been there since before you took over, and has just been hiding. I cant think of how else it could have the same province listed as its home...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 19, 2013, 10:17:00 AM
I was just thinking the same and went and looked at old turn logs.  Pythium did capture the province on turn 38 and I immediately captured it the following turn on turn 39.  That is a possibility depending on how the stealth mechanics work.

My understanding is that all stealth units start the turn unstealthed, with default orders of defend.  That is how all stealth units I have seen start.  You have to tell them to hide or sneak or they stay defending.  I have confirmed that summoned Kelp Ancients start with the defend order.  If that is the case then the earliest turn that Kelp Ancient could have appeared is the same turn I attacked normally (not magic phase) so I should have run into and killed any Kelp Ancients since there was no turn for him to give the hide order.

Of course all that assumes that I correctly understand stealth mechanics.  I have not looked more than 6 turns back, so I cannot confirm whether longer ago he owned the province.  I know that I was the initial owner, so will check the last year or so.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 19, 2013, 10:29:02 AM
Stealth is the explanation.  No bug and no abuse by Pythium, just good play.

After going back through the logs, that is clearly the explanation.  On turn 34 Pythium  held that province and there was a visible Kelp Ancient.  On turn 35 I attacked, there was a decent battle, but Kelp Ancients were not part of the battle, so he must have ordered them to hide.  I was so thrilled by my brave little triton breaking free from the scrum and killing his Arch Theurg in the back that I didn't notice the missing Kelp Ancients.  Those Kelp Ancients must have been hiding there for 6 turns.

Looking back at that turn, I'm not surprised I was distracted and missed it.  That was also the same turn Pythium's raiding geared Angel of Fury and Adept of the Silver Order loaded with gems went Boom.  Nice turn.

Thanks for the responses.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 19, 2013, 11:18:30 AM
sneaky
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 19, 2013, 12:59:36 PM
To confirm the stealth trick.  That is exactly what I did- it took a bit of testing in SP to verify it would work, though :/
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 20, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
Starting to run low on time... perhaps a few hours extension?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 20, 2013, 01:33:30 PM
Thanx haer. Your post reminded me to check. I'll have my turn in hopefully soon. Just wasn't quite able to finish last night.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 20, 2013, 04:36:13 PM
...Llamaserver hasn't updated in about 40 mins. Do you think it is down again? Winged, did you send your turn in yet?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 20, 2013, 05:29:28 PM
turn delayed 6 hours.

if that isn't enough, pm me or post here.  i'll try to check before bed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 20, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
OK turn posted, sorry for the delay.  Wasn't able to finish last night, couldn't seem to focus on it, and today was a wreck.  But its in now.

EDIT: in addition your message of the day reminded me of this.  Its hilarious.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 21, 2013, 10:30:35 AM
(http://i.qkme.me/57.jpg)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 21, 2013, 11:26:15 AM
Yeah. That lightening storm is harsh when you have no way of blocking lightening. That's ok. Will see what happens.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 21, 2013, 08:30:37 PM
I am seeing some things that I wish I had done differently now, a few steps in the chain that I could have done better.  This is definitely a learning experience.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 22, 2013, 12:34:14 AM
I got lucky with a Neifel Giant hero that possesses Air magic, a type of magic not normally available to my nation.  As such, he provides the most effective counters to archery, as well as the means to harry massed forces through battle magic and ritual summons.  The limitation is of course that he can only be in one place at a time.

As the bulk of Shinuyama's forces have to move through a limited number of bottlenecks in order to access Jotunheim...well, you know.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 22, 2013, 06:33:43 AM
That sort of happened to me. But instead of air I got a blood mage, which does me absolutely no good because I literally have no other blood mages so there is no way to start a blood economy. He does auto generate 1 slave a turn. But that isn't enough to warrant anything.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 22, 2013, 06:50:08 AM
you actually can kick off a blood economy with a b1 and a ton of indi zero searchers.  but it is a laborious process
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 22, 2013, 06:51:53 AM
Yeah. He is a b2. But he is literally the only blood caster I can ever get, I guess short of Indies, maybe. So the other thing is it wasn't worth putting any research into blood because of that.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 22, 2013, 09:59:53 AM
I am not yet home thanks to airport fun >:( and am requesting extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 22, 2013, 10:02:04 AM
Hosting postponed by 6 hours. Is that enough?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 22, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
I love the airport...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 22, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
OK I kicked some extra time onto the host since no word and I will be unavailable due to unconsciousness for a while.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 24, 2013, 05:09:25 AM
tygaros is going to be away for awhile, so I am adding 48 hours.

more time to devise dastardly things...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 24, 2013, 04:06:43 PM
ok, now I need to be away.

unexpected business problems mean I am AFK until wed evening.  I will submit a (shitty) turn prior to leaving, but please keep an eye out for me.

I may not be able to submit wed night(it's pretty unlikely) as i'll be finishing up a pretty brutal 72 hours.

sorry folks.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 24, 2013, 04:08:09 PM
No worried bro. I got ya covered.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 25, 2013, 05:38:16 AM
@wingedflamez

that blood 2 guy you have could actually be pretty useful. 1 slave/turn is enough to allow him to build a couple of blood based items here and there. even if you don't bother with the spells, items are always fun and dont need any research into blood magic.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 25, 2013, 07:36:04 AM
Yeah.  Blood can get you boots of youth, which would be nice for those old age bakemono sorcerors.  Hehe.  I know as Abyssia I spend WAY too much blood on boots for everyone, but I really hate old age.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 25, 2013, 11:06:52 AM
Yeah. I had him make an item or two. The problem is I think he only generates the slave if he is immobile for the turn.  And he is really useful as a combat commander. Not as useful and one of the hero's I could have gotten practically the same just less magic and he is immortal.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 25, 2013, 12:53:23 PM
I happen to have a couple of mages with some blood magic. It is far too little too late to really do much with it, but they allow me to get a few items here and there.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 26, 2013, 01:56:36 PM
Dont forget to get your turns in Shinu and Pythium...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 26, 2013, 09:58:46 PM
Im confused.  I sent in a 2H file, but it told me that i received a "Stale Turn" Message.

I'm going to try getting a resend and see if that fixes it, because llama server is showing that I didn't stale this turn either.

EDIT: i also received an email from llama server stating that my 2H file had been received.  I got me resend and it still shows none of my orders were followed.  So basically everything shows that I took my turn except for the next turn, I even checked my turn 43 files adn made sure that I didn't accidentally not save my orders to eh 2H file, but they are there.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 26, 2013, 10:09:59 PM
"Hi. On trying to host DOOOM just now, Dominions crashed. This is not a LlamaServer issue, but rather Dominions itself crashed with a "Nagot gick fel" error.

These errors are normally caused by a (generally inexplicable) problem with one of the players' 2h files. Therefore the LlamaServer moved all your 2h files away before hosting again. This is why you will receive a new turn file in which you've staled.

There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

I hope you manage to get the game back on course, whichever option you go for.

--llamabeast-------------------------------------"
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 26, 2013, 10:40:28 PM
I also received a stale turn message.  I vote for rollback.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 26, 2013, 11:45:51 PM
I vote for rollback as well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 27, 2013, 02:09:55 AM
Oh good, it isn't just me. Was getting very confused there. I am fine with rollback, I think Wingedflamez can do that right? or do we have to wait for ParOne?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 27, 2013, 06:04:17 AM
Stale turn here as well and I was cursing and cursing.  Glad to know I didn't totally screw up and forget to hit end turn.  I vote for rollback as well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 27, 2013, 07:04:51 AM
Yeah I can do the turn rollback. I'm just concerned that not everybody knows what is going on/isnt watching the boards.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 27, 2013, 07:38:13 AM
I am pretty sure most can work it out. If they dont know what is gonig on, they will likely come here to find out. Plus chances are all of them staled too. I say go ahead with a rollback.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 27, 2013, 09:18:18 AM
I would say go ahead with the rollback and send a notice to C'Tis(Ogrims) who already sent his turn in.  Anyone else will get a notice if they try to turn the wrong turn in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 27, 2013, 09:24:09 AM
Ok. I'm going to do the roll back, and send a message to ogrim.

EDIT: before I do that though. Alastair where did you get that message?  Was that an email from llamabeast or did I miss something. There is a pretty heavy warning about rolling back. And if the problem was with someone's 2h file, rolling back may not be enough. We may all have to redo and resubmit.  Apparently rolling back can cause some pretty drastic effects if the 2h files get confused.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 27, 2013, 12:02:40 PM
Email from llamabeast, just before the new turn went out, and just after mine was received.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 27, 2013, 12:17:26 PM
Not sure if that means that it was your file that caused the problem, or what, but I didn't get any such email. Ah well, I suggest we all redo our turns anyway just in case.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 27, 2013, 12:46:46 PM
Ok. I'm going to go ahead and do the rollback. Everybody, my suggestion is to redo your turn and resubmit, don't just resubmit your previous 2h file.

EDIT: roll back done. It said everyone should receive an email saying what happened that also contains the previous trn file.

EDIT #2: I am also putting extra time on because I think we have some people with sketchy access.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 28, 2013, 06:20:19 PM
ok.  I am back ;)

folks, we are in dangerous territory here.

what turn do we need to submit?  43?

 it is vital that we all submit the same turn.  if somebody submits 44 while we all submit 43, we will get corrupted(it'll be over)

im a bit confused as to what happened.

I see on my turn 44, I get a stale message?  so I guess we all resubmit 43?

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 28, 2013, 06:45:05 PM
If someone submits the wrong turn, llama server refuses it and asks them to resubmit.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 28, 2013, 07:07:27 PM
Basically what happend was someones 2H file for turn 43 was messed up, and because of that dominions crashed on teh server side, when it did that it kicked everyones 2H files out then when it restarted the server thought everyone was turned in so it hosted.  but it had already kicked all the 2H files out so everyone got a tale turn.  General consensus from the majority of people who normally talk on this board wanted to roll the turn back. Sorry if I should have waited, but I figured it would be better for people to be able to take their turns.  The server should have resent the turn 43 trn file for everyone to update with.

tldr; server screwed up, reset turn, email sent out with old trn file, turn 43 is teh one to resubmit.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 28, 2013, 07:12:27 PM
no problem.  I was in a game once that survived a roll back.

the main thing is, we all must send turn 43.  only turn 43.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 28, 2013, 07:27:45 PM
To make things clear, I voted for a rollback for purely selfish reasons.

As a blood nation, Jotunheim requires a lot of management to make sure it's hunters are operating at an optimal level and unrest is not spiralling out of control, which impacts income and blood production.  I had idle hunters in fresh territory, transporting units standing still, hunters that should have been researching and researchers that should have been hunting.  A more experienced player may have had their blood network set up more efficiently, but as it stands, I have to do a lot of fiddly things to keep my empire relatively stable while hunting.

Without this concern, I would not have asked for the rollback.  I am sure other players have their own reasons for asking for the turn to be played again.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on August 29, 2013, 01:45:44 AM
In my case, it was due to having my army deep in the Ctisian dominion. Every turn they are there, more of my expensive summons and mages catch fatal diseases, so I really need to end things there as soon as possible.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on August 29, 2013, 06:53:39 AM
In my case it was purely for altruistic reasons as the world should not suffer under the Jotun boot any longer than it must. 

*Noble Pose*
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 29, 2013, 12:48:59 PM
[*Noble Pose*
[/quote]


I love the noble pose!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 30, 2013, 03:57:04 PM
Sorry I havent got my turn in yet, life has been crazy, kid got sick, havent really had much time to get away. I should be able to get my turn in later tonight though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 30, 2013, 05:59:36 PM
I just wanted to check in and confirm I will get my turn in on time in the next 4 hours.  It's been a busy week, but I will have the time to get it done now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 30, 2013, 06:46:00 PM
take your time.  or, if you don't have time, request additional delay :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 30, 2013, 06:50:21 PM
also guys, alastair may not be able to continue.  I have encouraged him to keep playing, as this was billed as a High Commitment game, but he seems to have some very real RL issues, and simply may not be able to.

if not, we may be looking at a pretty significant delay(finding a sub for large, contending positions is notoriously difficult).

then again, I estimate the odds of this game getting corrupted/destroyed on this rollback at right about 30%, so it is very possible it won't be an issue.

in any case, if you know of anyone who might be a suitable sub, you may want to hit them up about the possibility..
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on August 30, 2013, 07:07:10 PM
OK I got my turn in.  Its probably a worse turn than the original but, shit happens.

That sucks.  Yeah I'm gonna feel like a giant bag if the game completely fails because of the roll back.

Well if things do go south.  I know I have learned a few valuable lessons, that I will hopefully be able to carry forward with me into future Dom3/4 games.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 30, 2013, 07:54:43 PM
bahh. don't do that to yourself winger. 

besides, we can always start a new one. :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 30, 2013, 08:52:55 PM
added 6 hours.   a player was cutting it close ???
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 30, 2013, 09:49:57 PM
Thank you for the extension.  I totally lost track of time with real life issues.  I am working on the turn now and should have it in about 20 minutes.  Thanks as I definitely would have staled.

-Bronwell
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on August 31, 2013, 12:23:30 AM
Good News.  The game seemed to host turn 43 and send turn 44 just fine.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 31, 2013, 04:42:48 AM
my turn also seems ok...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 31, 2013, 05:32:04 AM
one of my global rituals did not launch an attack.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on August 31, 2013, 06:26:37 AM
is it still up?  I recently heard about something called a 'global bug'
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on August 31, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
Yes, that was the first thing I checked.  Illwinter launched an attack before the rollback, after the rollback, that did not happen.  I am not overly concerned, but it appears to be an anomaly.  If it persists in doing nothing, I guess I'll have to submit a bug report.

I experienced no other obvious issues with my turn.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 01, 2013, 06:15:41 PM
12 hour delay :-\
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 01, 2013, 08:15:35 PM
What happened?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 01, 2013, 09:21:13 PM
I'm not complaining.  2 hours to go and 5 of us still need to post turns.  I was about to rush to get mine done.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 01, 2013, 09:30:38 PM
Not complaining either. Just wondering.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 02, 2013, 05:49:59 AM
sorry guys.  back to back 17 hour days, and a few domestic responsablities. 

will try to get it in this a.m. but it'll be a wicked rush job.  may have to be this afternoon(which would mean another 3 or 4 hours...)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 02, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
Well shit, I thought we had til tommorrow to turn in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 02, 2013, 05:02:58 PM
Strongly suggest that future extensions be 24 hours when they are granted.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 02, 2013, 05:08:10 PM
Mainly I misread the last post by Parone. I thought he was saying he had thrown an additional 17 hour extension down.  No worries. Didn't have anything overly major happening this turn so eh.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 02, 2013, 07:07:14 PM
sorry for confusion. 

if it makes you feel any better, your stale was probably not much worse than the incredibly shitty turn I sent in...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 02, 2013, 07:39:22 PM
My turn was average. Nothing truly awful, but I did somehow manage to lose 6 scouts in a single turn... Maintaining a map-wide spy network is hard, they keep getting found.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 03, 2013, 04:16:24 AM
I require an extension of 36 hours. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 03, 2013, 04:35:07 AM
turn extended 36 hours to accommodate phobos.

alastair is going to try to continue on, so no sub needed as of yet.  he has asked that the turn interval be increased to 60 hours, which I have done. 

extra time means more time to get your turn in, but always runs the risk of people getting disinterested as the game loses momentum.  so try not to let that happen! :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 03, 2013, 01:46:35 PM
Hello everyone. I just bought Dominions 4, which while it not quite finished yet, is currently in beta for anyone who preorders it. Just started a game as Ur, the first city. Tomorrow, I will play some more of it. Anyone have any questions about it they want me to look into?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 03, 2013, 04:15:46 PM
High level summons/SC chassis across paths.  Also, gem gens.  Are they in or out?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 03, 2013, 11:24:18 PM
I am not quite sure I understand your questions, let me try to clarify: are you asking is SC chassis' are available through spells of magic paths other than Conjuration? If so, I will look into it, but I believe it will be like Dom 3 - a few here and there, but mostly only Conjuration and Blood.

If by Gem Gens you mean magic sites giving gems, pretty damn certain that is still present. If you mean items giving gems, I dont know but will find out. If you mean spells giving gems, I dont know but will find out.

They do have a new global spell which gives you gold/turn though. You summon a rainbow and give yourself gold and your dominion gains luck. Sounds quite interesting.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 04, 2013, 08:24:18 PM
Oh, I meant gem generators like clams, bloodstones, and fever fetishes.

And more SC and thug chassis for other paths than death, blood, /elemental royalty.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 04, 2013, 09:38:43 PM
I am currently in the process of making a full list of generic spells, and will be looking at making a full item list as well.  Its really slow though.  Holy Crap.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 05, 2013, 07:28:56 AM
I swear, I had been working for like 2 hours, and was almost done and ready to start making an item list, and then my dom4 decided it was a good time to crash, and of course I hadn't saved.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 05, 2013, 11:10:13 AM
good to hear dom4 is stable... :-[
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on September 05, 2013, 12:15:08 PM
whoa hold the phone.  Dominions 4 is out now?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 05, 2013, 12:40:44 PM
Kinda sorta. It's actual official release got delayed until the end of the month, but if you preorder, you get to play the beta, which is about 95% complete afaics.

I havent had any problems with Dom4 stability, except ones due to my laptop being crapper than a sewer. But as this thing crashes sometimes with -Dom 3- I think I can ignore any slight issues to now.

Thrones of Ascension add quite an interesting element to the game. Some just act as Uber temple, bt others do stuff like make you bless stronger (eg +2 strength to blessed troops) or affect your dominions... both positively and negatively. In one of my games, I started right near one of the thrones, which I have yet to claim due to it adding 2 levels of Death Scale to my dominion, in return for a large temple check and something else I cant recall of hand. I think a bless boost or something.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 05, 2013, 12:44:10 PM
Yeah.  Beta access started a few days ago for those who preordered.  I have downloaded it but haven't had time to try it out yet.  I will finally get to try tonight after getting my turn in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 05, 2013, 04:35:54 PM
I think what has surprised me most are all the tweaks to pre-existing mechanics which I had not expected.  Substantial changes to blesses for death, blood, nature, and minor tweak to earth bless.  Change to magic scale.  The biggest surprise to me was large increase to base research.  Just those changes will affect the balance between nations.  Nations with cheap researchers would seem to be even more useful.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 05, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
Part of that as well is that some of the heavy hitting casters were setup at 2 turn recruitments, which really throws a wrench in the gears.

For instance, in dom3, the mainstay of the shinyu mage guild is the sorcerer, he is expensive, has a decent spread in paths with decent numbers, and is the only caster that shinyu has that is worth a damn for research.  In dom4 the sorcerer gets jacked up to a 2 turn recruitment.  If the research numbers had stayed the same, shinyu would never be able to compete, because they wouldn't be able to keep up with research.  I'm already having a hard enough time as it is.  So what they did was the made the Uba, which from what I can see is actually really good as a mobile support caster in dom3, into one hell of an awesome researcher.  At least that is what I thought when I started writing this post.

Dom3

Uba - 150g for 7 research.  not sacred.  which I think means it is 15g upkeep
Sorcerer - 300g for 11 research.  sacred, which I think also means 15g upkeep.

2 Uba 300 for 14, 30 upkeep
2 Sorcerer 600 22, 30 upkeep

2 Uba 300 for 14 research 30 upkeep
1 sorcerer 300 for 11 research 15 upkeep

Dom4 *BETA*

Uba - 145g for 13 research, not sacred, which I think means 15g upkeep
Sorcerer - 400g for 21 research, sacred, which I think means 20g upkeep.  But takes 2 turns to recruit. So...

2 Ubas at 290g for 26 research, and 30 upkeep.
1 Sorcerer at 400g for 21 research, and 20 upkeep.

*original Thinking* In dom3 gold-research the sorcerer is the most efficient, hands down, as well as the only worthwhile researcher.  In Dom4 The Uba is much more gold-research efficient, and you can get 2 of them in the time it takes to get 1 sorcerer for less in initial cost, and then it takes 11 turns before the total cost after upkeep is matched.

Looking at it now The Uba is actually probably a better gold to research ratio, but isn't nearly as fast a research start, which shin needs to get to its site searching and summons.

The sorcerer still has his place as a ritual caster/crafter.  But the flexibility of 2 Ubas, makes them better for research.

Yeah so enjoy that :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 02:44:42 AM
Yeah, But one thing is I think there are different base research rates for different units. I think those units which take two turns to build actually have double the base research, before it is changed by path levels etc.

Playing as MA Tien Chi (to better check for differences) one of the strange things I have noticed is a slightly odd balance with the top two casters. Celestial Masters and Alchemists. In dom3, ALchemists were more powerful and could move faster, and could heal, but cost more, had mch higher upkeep (not being sacred) and were not priests. Still, the only thing stopping you from getting them instead of Celstial Masters every turn was the costs. In Dom4, the stats of both are pretty much the same as before, with Alchemists also being better researchers than the Masters, but this time they cost much MUCH less. about 100g less than the Masters, in fact. I cant relly see, given that they have better stats and now cost less too, why anyone would want to get Masters instead of Alchemists, except for a few to give you astral.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 05:40:32 AM
Huh. Not 100% sure, but it seems in dominions 4 old age doesnt prevent the healing of afflictions. One of my old mages just had his crippled chest healed.

This being said, it is harder to get true healers. Most of the ones I have seen (such as my alchemists) have been demoted to "Disease healers" who can only cure diseases, but I had a hero unit who still heals. Also, healing is now not a % chance but a garentee of X number of attepts to heal an affliction. It also happens automatically, you dont have to stop your healer from doing other things. Seems fairly good to me.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 06, 2013, 07:48:08 AM
For what it's worth.  The research difference I was referring to was that as the new Carrion Woods version of MA Pangaea (forgot name), all of the mages, including the 2-turn Pan Apostate have base research 5 rather than 2.  It is particularly skewed as I went with Magic-3 which in Dominions 4 means +3 research rather than +2 (each step now gives +1/-1, even at the +2/-2 Magic step which had bonus in Dominions 3).

Magic 1 is no longer the obvious choice.  I am interested by the magic changes as it seems drain scales are more penalized, but at the same time, higher base research on all mages makes the effect of drain less noticeable.

I think my favorite surprise was that blood magic bless.  Blood Vengeance on all sacred troops could truly be nasty.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 07:57:03 AM
Really? wow, didnt see that. I need to check out the blesses if BLOOD VENGEANCE is availalbe from them. Is it anywhere near as nice as it is in Dom3?

Also, Heat/Cold scales have been changed. The now have a fairly significant impact (-5% income per level away from ideal, and something with supplies but I dont care about that) but most importantly, they now zero at the prefered scale. Eg Machaka, which I think prefers heat scale +2, starts at heat scale +2 on the start screen, and -gains no points for this-. You now only gain points for every step away from your nation's ideal. As I normally play cold 3 every game, this is quite an interesting change.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 08:36:37 AM
Whoa, that is really damn new.

Guarding one of the Thrones of Ascension in one of my recent games? A goddamn neutral Titan of Storms. 7 Air and 4 Earth magic, very large army including spring hawks, icarids and gryphons. The lesser thrones had many defenders and strong mages, but this... this is effectively an NPC pretender god!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 06, 2013, 09:55:08 AM
I am going to go ahead and put another 6 hours onto the host time, since we have 2 people not done, and I am going to be offline for at least 6 hours, and I am not sure about Parone availability, but I know he is usually offline at this time IIRC.

Honestly I am not sure about base research numbers, but something I did notice, which I apparently had wrong all along, or is a bug.  The research value of a caster does not increase when it gains paths from its random picks, and also in Dom4, the disability "inept learner X" is already figured into the research value when you are looking at it in the recruit screen.

Also whats yall's opinion on the new range limitations of the ritual spells.  I think its kind of interesting, especially some of the heavier attack spells that have like a 3 province range.  Definitely makes long range spells a little more risky, and also interesting because now they have sites that give X bonus range to Y types of rituals.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 10:01:45 AM
Makes sense, though I hope the two remaining players do try to get it in for the original time.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 06, 2013, 10:26:36 AM
Thanks for the additional time, but I am working on mine now and will have it in before the original time (which is about an hour from now).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 06, 2013, 01:20:46 PM
Well, Good fight Ctis, hope to play with you again sometime.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 06, 2013, 11:06:32 PM
I cannot believe my idiot communion cooked themselves by casting high-fatigue spells AFTER jotunheim's army had been almost completely routed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 07, 2013, 01:12:26 AM
it happens...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 07, 2013, 07:38:13 AM
Thanks for the game, Ogrims.  I look forward to seeing you in a future Dominions 4 game.

Wingedflamez, as to research from random path.. it's already figured into the recruit path in Dominions 3 and Dominions 4 as far as I know.  It is not always going to be correct, because it includes fractions.  Mystics, etc., with lots of 50% paths will have all the fractions added together to give a research number in the recruit screen that may end up being way off.  So 4 50% paths would count as 2 research, but could be 0-4.  I can't tell if this is what you are referring to.

As to the range limitations, I think it is a brilliant addition which will add a whole new layer of strategy.  I love anything that adds to the depth of Dominions.  My favorite part of the game is that there is no one way to play, and every strategy has multiple counters.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 07, 2013, 09:52:46 AM
I think it only counts for full percentages. Like you said 4 50s is 2 and 1 100 and a 10 is one. I will do some extra testing on a fresh game but o thought that my sorcerers who proved their extra 10% had the same research as those that didnt.

But the idea of them already being worked in makes sense.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 07, 2013, 11:27:21 AM
So what is the new baseline then? what is it that the path level bonuses are getting added to? I seems to vary, but one thing that shows is that thus far any mage who takes 2 turns to build seems to have a much higher base research.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 07, 2013, 12:12:27 PM
The only one I have looked at in detail is the new MA Pan Carrion Woods version.  All of their mages, including the 2 turn Panic Apostate use a formula of 5 base research (compared to 2 base in Dom 3) +1 research/path level.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 07, 2013, 06:16:03 PM
Ok. So after looking a bit deeper. I discovered what was wrong. I was not taking into account the factor of experience, which gives 1 research per level of experience, and also the fact that I have drain 3 scales, which throws everything off. So I think that the shinyu sorcerers have a base research of 2, unless priest levels count in which case they have a base of 1.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 07, 2013, 08:14:38 PM
Drain 3 is -3 research in dom 4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 08, 2013, 09:13:08 PM
getting pretty close to the dealine and over half have yet to send in their turns. Can we have an extension?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 08, 2013, 10:49:16 PM
I threw 4 extra hours on. I took a mini vacation this weekend and just got home. 6.5 hours later than intended. I'll be getting my turn in soon though.

EDIT:  I added an additional 20 hours, making it a total 24 hour extension. Sorry. I am beat and my computer isn't even on right now. I should be able to get my turni in come morning. But will definitely have it in by tomorrow night.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 09, 2013, 09:31:22 PM
OK im going to throw and additional 12 hours out there since I am about to be offline to sleep.

Faux, its on you man.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 10, 2013, 05:50:45 PM
folks, i'm gonna need 48 hours >:(
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 10, 2013, 06:51:48 PM
Gah Parone, such a delayer, (read massive sarcasm)

No worries mate, get yur stuff done.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 13, 2013, 05:12:28 AM
phew. got it in.  thanks for the delay guys...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 13, 2013, 09:59:30 AM
We've got about 10 minutes left to post turn.  You may want to throw on 1-2 hours for Phobos.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 13, 2013, 10:08:50 AM
I thought I had submitted my turn already.  There was an issue with my e-mail, which I did not pay attention to.  Turn is in now, no need to extend the deadline.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 13, 2013, 12:24:55 PM
We've had a grand total of 2 stales over 450+ nation-turns.  That is outstanding.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 13, 2013, 07:49:00 PM
absolutely, this is an excellent group.

tygaros asked if its ok if he goes AI in a few turns. 

I know a lot of folks want everyone to fight to the death, but as far as I am concerned, if the game isn't fun anymore(and you are 99% dead) going AI is ok.

gg tygaros.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 14, 2013, 02:51:20 AM
GG tygaros. I didnt get to fight you this game, but I hope to see you around some time.

Also, could I ask that you keep an eye out an perhaps give me an extension please? I have a fairly complex turn coming up, and I would prefer to use my main PC for it rather than my (extremely crappy) laptop to do it. I am getting back quite late on Sunday though, and I am not certain I will be up to doing my turn that night, so I -may- need a small extension then. Not certain right now, will probably send a message on Sunday to tell you either way.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on September 15, 2013, 10:12:44 AM
GG all. I had lots of fun playing this game and learned a whole lot of things. I will set myself to AI the next turn, if all my non besieged units are killed, I guess the AI is as good as me sitting in a besieged fortress.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 15, 2013, 11:07:46 AM
Thanks for playing Tygaros.  GG.  See you around hopefully in Dominions 4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 15, 2013, 02:24:34 PM
Ok, I am back now but I am completely dead on my feet. I really dont feel up to doing a full turn for this game, so could I have a 12 hour delay to let me do my turn tomorrow morning. Sorry, but I can barely keep my eyes open.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 15, 2013, 04:23:12 PM
delayed 12...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 16, 2013, 01:00:20 AM
Thanks, will do my turn now. Looks like despite everything I actually woke up fairly early, so I guess we could have gone for a smaller delay... ah well, I wasnt sure if I would be awake before mid day, so I went with a cautious amount of time. Sorry once again for this.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 16, 2013, 04:39:54 AM
Sorry guys. I threw another delay on, I ment to get my turn done last night, but got distracted playing king of dragon pass until I passed out at the keyboard. I am going to try to get it done this afternoon though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 16, 2013, 08:01:29 AM
Been preoccupied with BG:EE beta testing.  Getting continually reamed by giant trolls atm.  Does not appear as buggy as the first game.  If this game has not concluded by mid November, you'll need to find a sub for my position.  I'll be prioritising Dom4 and BG2.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 16, 2013, 08:27:12 AM
OK I need some assistance here.  I messaged phobos about it and he had the same battle report as well, So I looked it up, and its an identified bug.  Whenever wrathful skies and mists of deception are cast together it is impossible for the opponent to win.

Mists of deception does not end when the caster is no longer on the battlefield, which means that there are always units on the map which means at best the opponent runs into the 50 turn combat limit.  This includes if the side which cast the spell routs completely.

That just happened to me this turn.  I am not sure what to do about it at this point.   I am willing to play on, but I do not expect to be able to compete anymore.  I spent the last 3 turns preparing for this particular attack, constructing particular items, and summoning specific units.  Half of that preparation was lost in this attack, for no gain, and This was pretty much my one shot at punching through this hole.

I'm not trying to complain, I just don't know what to do about this, since there is no way to get around it. I am not calling exploit, I don't think phobos did it on purpose, but I would like some input on it.

EDIT: This is the forum thread I learned this from.  http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35991
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 16, 2013, 08:40:53 AM
Hmm... I think perhaps if Phobos agreed to let you take the province this turn/next turn without a fight in recognition of the fact you would have won if not for the bug. Afterwards, I think we would have to ask Phobos to not use those two spells together again, as that is fairly clearly an exploit (although I doubt he knew about it) and continuing to use them now that he -does- know about the bug would be quite unfair.

This is unfortunate, but I don't think the loss of any one army, even your main one, should automatically remove you from contention. You are still one of the three largest nations around.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 16, 2013, 08:54:09 AM
It's mainly the cost of loss to me and the lack of loss on the other side. There were 3 key targets that I set up specifically to eliminate in this battle. The situation I set up will be difficult to emulate. And none of those units were destroyed.  Also it would be very difficult to allow me to take the location without a fight. Because of the setup that was established.

And you are right, I was exaggerating, and frustrated.

Also if someone else would check into this, the original identification was in 2004, and I know it was red flagged to be fixed, but I couldn't find anything saying it had been fixed.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 16, 2013, 12:25:46 PM
That exploit/thread was around the last time I played, and I thought it had been fixed by now.  I'm pretty sure it had been set so that MoD doesn't continue indefinitely, but if that is not the case, definitely an exploit.  I suspect that CBM might have carried it through.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 17, 2013, 04:29:42 AM
The battle replay is the bug, not the outcome of the battle.

The replay did not show the effect of my global on the battle, plus there were units missing from the replay that should have taken part in the battle.  The bulk of Shinuyama's force was low morale goblins, which have lower morale under Dark Skies.  Once Wrathful Skies starts hitting half of the battlefield, they run away fairly quickly, leaving summoned Air Elementals to take out any survivors.

I did not put Mists of Deception in my script.  Just a lot of Thunder Wards and Thunder Strikes, as well as the Storm/Stormpower/Wrathful Skies/Living Air set up.

edit:  There were also casualties in the replay, that were alive and patrolling when I brought up the map for this turn. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 17, 2013, 04:38:33 AM
Well I'm confused....
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: undercovergeek on September 17, 2013, 04:41:55 AM
hmmm this ended an MP game over at Desura with me and Ogaburan and another guy - the other guy completely destroyed my army on the replay, but the game itself on the next turn had him lose the battle, lost all his generals and his magic goodies scattered to the winds - he wasnt happy to say the least, and left, i was accused of cheating so i left - it was proved by the Dominions Gods to be a replay bug - the replay cannot and should not be taken to be the law - but the game engine and the results posted on the next turn are the real results
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 17, 2013, 04:42:59 AM
Ok then... what were the real results then? How much did each side lose?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 17, 2013, 06:40:54 AM
Like I said, I'm not going to quit over this.  I am frustrated by the loss, but if phobos didn't script MoD, then it is a replay bug. Which is very annoying. But I accept the loss if the replay is busted.  And I do apologize for my outburst about not being competitive I was really stressed when I posted that about more than the game.

I hope they are able to fix these sorts of problems in dom4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 17, 2013, 11:09:14 AM
One of the air queens autocasts MoD, I think
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 19, 2013, 06:36:05 AM
Going to be gone through sunday.  Realllly need an extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 19, 2013, 05:50:22 PM
48 hour extension...

when WAS the last time this game hosted?!?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 19, 2013, 06:02:17 PM
It looks like Alistair is requesting an immediate extension for Pythium.  I had initially assumed when he posted that he was referring to next turn.  I have no objection to the extension, but I hope someone sees this before turns post in less than 3 hours.

For what it's worth, the overall turn slowdown in the past month has definitely hurt my enthusiasm for this game.  It seems the first 40 turns flew by, but the last month or more came to a screeching halt.  It doesn't help that Dominions 4 has come out and I can only assume that I am not the only one spending a great deal of time testing it out.

I don't know how everyone else feels, but back to back to back to back turns of 4 day+ turns seems to have hurt interest in the game, simply looking at the fact that even with long extensions like the current turn, a majority are still waiting until the last minute to post turns.  I think what has surprised me most was that in my other MP, even though there was a 48 hour timer, approximately every 3rd turn or so would get rushed out in 6-7 hours or so as everyone just did back to back turns.  That has never seemed to happen in this game after the first 10 turns.  My other MP game started much slower than the current game, and had numerous stales, but with the exception of one 48 hour extension never really had any turns take longer than 60 hrs right up to the bitter end,  with most turns taking nowhere near the timer.  It could simply be that MP game finished during the summer when there were fewer real life demands.

I know I have certainly needed 2 small extensions and have taken advantage of several extensions granted to others.  I guess I was just surprised to see so many long turns in the last 5 weeks.  I figured after the game crashed we would try to speed things up after that long hiatus.  Instead it got worse.  This may be common in games.  My first MP is my only other experience.

I will do my best to stick this out to the bitter end, but if we are still averaging such long turns in November I may join Phobos in focusing on Dominions 4 and start looking for a sub.
 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 19, 2013, 06:15:26 PM
if two nations of your size quit, there won't be any subs, the game will just die.


It's pretty poor form to post:  'im gonna quite this game' IMO.  that doesn't show a lot of respect for the other people playing the game.

I was pretty much reconciled to irrelevance a long time ago in this game, but I still make the effort to get turns in.  that's what good(if not skilled ;)) players do.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 19, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
My delay is in part due to beta testing another game.  That should conclude over the next week.

The other reason for my delay is organising blood hunting and communions/sabbaths, which is fairly time intensive.  Other games I can complete turns fairly quickly, typically in one sitting.  With this game I have to force myself to sit down and go through everything manually, plus then double check everything to ensure everyone has their correct allocation of blood slaves and gems.  That is fairly time intensive and I don't often have the luxury of an hour or more to myself most evenings.

I have no problem with a 48 hour or 60 hour interval and have not staled yet, though I can understand the frustration of some players being forced to wait for me to complete a turn.  I can speed up my turn submissions if you like, but the performance of Jotunheim will likely suffer as a result (I have sent in some clumsy turns already, but I will probably hit a new level of fail if I have to rush). 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 19, 2013, 07:43:47 PM
I'm was referring to something possibly occurring at least 6 weeks out, and would stay in the game to the bitter end if I still felt that way and could not find a sub then.  I never said "I'm quitting."  I certainly don't want the game to die, as I have enjoyed it and learned a lot from it.  I am thrilled to still even be relevant in the game after that early dogpile.

I did not think it unreasonable to point out that somehow it feels like our turn timer has effectively shifted from 48 hours to something more like 96 hours or more, with virtually no quick turns in between to keep interest in the game.  It is definitely possible I am the only one to feel this way. 

My son is one month from turning 2 years old, so I understand that unavoidable things come up, and have no problems at all with extensions whenever needed.  I brought up the subject because it feels like there is less interest in the game and it seems one of the best ways to renew interest would be by trying to speed up turns by getting turns in as soon as possible.

I know I for one generally feel no guilt about turning in my turn near the deadline when only 1 person has posted his turn in the first 43 hours and we have 5 hours remaining til post.  However, it is entirely different when I am last with even 24 hours left on the clock.  I believe I have only been last 3 times this whole game and one of those was the first turn as I didn't realize it had started.  I will try to get my turns in well before the deadline when possible to hopefully help facilitate faster turns.


As for your blood hunting, Phobos, I can relate.  I primarily play blood hunting nations.  My last MP was as Sauromatia, and they definitely add a substantial layer of micromanagement.  I don't wish to rush you at the expense of your turns.  I think I was simply expressing my frustration and surprise that we never seem to have a time, even on the weekend where we can all manage to get our turns in a 24 hour period, much less the occasional 8-hour window which occurred in my last game. 

tl;dr version is Don't worry about me quitting.  I will be here to the bitter end.  I would prefer turns to move a little faster when possible but will stick around regardless and certainly don't want anyone to feel guilty if real life gets in the way of gaming.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 19, 2013, 08:52:13 PM
Tuesday morning was the last time it hosted.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 20, 2013, 12:49:53 AM
I agree with Bronwell. These constant delays and extensions are slowing the game down a bit too much. I admit I have asked for a few extensions myself, but only rarely. At this point though we very rarely get a turn of less than 48 hours length, let alone the 1/day we used to consistently get. I don't mean to rush anybody, but if people would try to get their turns done as soon as they have the time, rather than (as many, including myself, have recently been doing) not sending a turn in until just before the deadline, I think the resultant speed up would greatly improve interest in the game.

Right now, I am not doing very much in the game. I am sitting around gathering forces, building items etc. The problem is at the current speed... spending 4 turns (not very many) gathering men like I am doing takes the better part of 2 weeks real time. It is frustrating to wait for so long for something so mundane...

In response to this, I will be trying to get every turn in as soon as I can from now on, and I hope others will at least attempt to do the same.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 20, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
of course, you folks are right.  many games die this death as you get into the lategame-people just lose interest, and turns don't get done-causing others to lose interest.

I guess the idea of thrones in dom4 is supposed to address this phenomena, though I do not know how.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 20, 2013, 01:53:42 PM
I am not losing interest, even with these delays. Far from it actually - I have been playing the long game, and have several plans only just coming into fruition. What I am is frustrated. I feel that now we are firmly in the end game, things are only going to get more interesting. I just wish the pacing hadn't slowed down so much.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 23, 2013, 04:35:14 AM
The Llamaserver hasn't updated in over 9 hours, anyone know what is going on?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on September 23, 2013, 02:41:32 PM
Seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on September 23, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Yeah, don't know what the problem was but it was fixed, so never mind.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 23, 2013, 03:15:30 PM
I am curious.  When did we switch to a 60-hour standard turn?  I remember moving quite some time ago to 48 hours, but I was surprised to see we now have 60 as standard.  With all the turn delays, I have not noticed the default timer was moved as well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 23, 2013, 03:34:39 PM
Turn will be in without any issues.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on September 23, 2013, 03:46:24 PM
I believe it was Alistair who started having some personal issues and as such was going to need extra time between turns.  I think that was like 2 weekends ago? 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 23, 2013, 03:58:55 PM
The reason I ask is that I looked back through the threads for at least a month, back to the server stale bug where we resent turn 43 and a few turns before that and saw no mention of the turns being moved to 60-hours, just many, many extensions.  I gather it must have happened earlier than that.

I would vote to move future turns back to 48 hours, just to hopefully keep the game moving along, still giving extensions freely as needed.  If others can't keep that schedule I understand.  As it happens my work should not be too bad the next few months.

I have to say I am surprise by how this game has progressed.  It is completely different from my other MP.  In that game, by midgame their were clear tiers, with a HUGE disparity between nation strengths, with one player out in front by every metric-research, gold, gems, etc, and with a huge gap between player 2 and player 3.  There was a similar gap between players 4 and 5, with players 5 and 6 holding on for dear life until their eventual termination, and nations 7 and 8 previously eliminated quite quickly.

In this game, while there are huge disparities in research, and moderate disparities in gems and gold, the disparity in provinces is remarkably small between 1 and 7.  I find it much more interesting, with every player still relevant this late in the game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 23, 2013, 05:09:54 PM
good observation bron.

I think that is pretty rare.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Tygaros on September 23, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
So I'm finally out now. GG to all and I hope to meet you in Dominions 4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on September 23, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
gg Tyg
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 24, 2013, 06:58:57 AM
Thanks for the game Tygaros.  See you in Dominions 4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 28, 2013, 08:31:39 AM
Any chance we can try to do back to back turns today or at least try to get the next turn in by tomorrow?

The weekend just seems like the best time to try to get in faster turns.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on September 29, 2013, 12:17:41 PM
Bronwell- did Soylent Green finally succumb to horror marks?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on September 30, 2013, 09:18:05 AM
Lol.  It sort of defeats the purpose of a stealthy pretender if I simply tell you where he is.  Find him yourself.  :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 01, 2013, 09:12:33 AM
This is a remarkably expensive war for the both of us, Jotunheim. :/  I just lost a 70 gem unit to kill your even more valuable unit.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 01, 2013, 09:32:27 AM
Tell that to the 4 or 5 geared thugs I ost to lightening storms. :/
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 01, 2013, 02:08:19 PM
Dear Geared Thugs:  Should have worn lightning rings.  All the cool thugs are doing it.

Sincerely, Pythium.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 01, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
I thought you two were sort of allies right now?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 01, 2013, 04:19:25 PM
I'm at war with Jotunheim.  Jotunheim attacked me.  I do not know if Shinyu initiated war with Jotunheim b/c Jotunheim was vulnerable or if Jotunheim also attacked Shinyu at the same time. 

This is friendly trashtalk regarding my battles v. Jotunheim compared to Shinyu's.  I did not lightning Shinyu's thugs, Jotunheim did.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 01, 2013, 05:00:43 PM
Ah right. It's just the way it was said made it sound like you were the one to have zapped his thugged, which confused me because I thought correctly that you were united against a common enemy, at least for now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 01, 2013, 08:23:49 PM
yeah ligtening rings are nice if you have easy access to air magic.  :P

Sorry about the confusion.  I was talking about the costly war part.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 05, 2013, 09:13:36 PM
Sorry I have to throw an extension on, I thought I had already handled my turn and was ready to turn in, but i didn't, I will be done pretty soon though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on October 05, 2013, 09:46:32 PM
I have to travel mid-week and will probably not be home before the weekend.  I will be able to get turn 56 in without an extension (next turn), but I may require an extra day for turn 57 (the following turn).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 06, 2013, 10:03:02 AM
Any chance we can push the turn-timer back to 48 hours? I am curious about how everyone else feels on the turn-timer, as I mentioned it before, and the only responses I saw seemed to be willing to change it back to 48 hours.

I have no problems with continuing to grant extensions whenever requested.

It just seems like most are waiting until a few hours before the deadline, whenever that is, to post turns.  Moving up the timer might speed things up in general, keeping interest, while allowing generous extensions whenever needed, like for Phobos or WingedFlamez.

The problem I see with a long timer is that many people (myself included) see a long timer and say to themselves, "Well that's not for a long time, I'll worry about it later, as there is no point doing it now, since turns won't post anyway."  They then put it off, often forget about it, then have to rush to try to get it done before the "far-off" deadline.  I confess I am surprised we ever ended up with a timer this long, especially so early.  My only other MP went quite a bit longer and never had a timer this long.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 09, 2013, 07:21:07 AM
It looks like Llamaserver went down yesterday.  All the games are showing no update for the past 17 hours.  With 2 hours until turn hosting, it is still just showing my turn as the only one received.

Does anyone have a way to contact Llama and get the server back up?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on October 09, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
It may have something to do with the Dom4 release today.  My turn is in. 

I'll need an extension for the coming turn (57)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 09, 2013, 11:03:07 AM
delayed 24 just to be safe
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 09, 2013, 11:04:08 AM
phew.

I checked it just now, got my timing wrong thought I had another hour.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 09, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
don't worry too much, cus llama isn't accepting turns at the moment.

you can send It in, but I don't think you'll get a confirmation.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 09, 2013, 02:27:48 PM
Sorry Im bad at this.

I sent my turn in last night, I had ment to check it to see if it had updated and was going to put in an extension. and was late checking it
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 09, 2013, 06:23:53 PM
phobos, how many hours do u need?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 09, 2013, 09:49:50 PM
Speaking for myself, i much prefer the lower pressure with a longer timeframe.  Once every 3 or so days is much more comfortable for me than every 48 hrs, especially as I've been making a lot of 2 or so day trips recently.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 10, 2013, 06:13:27 PM
im gonna bump it 24 right now.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 10, 2013, 07:59:18 PM
I'm curious..why did you bump it from over 48 hours left to 72?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 10, 2013, 10:09:16 PM
Phobos asked for an extension due to travelling.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 11, 2013, 07:55:10 AM
Deleted-

-Just saw that Phobos asked for time again on the 9th.  Missed it in his message saying he turned in his turn
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 12, 2013, 06:58:49 AM
I saw that all the games (including ours) say Turn 0 now, after llama's extensive changes to the server for Dominions 4. 

I hope that doesn't cause any problems when turns host.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 13, 2013, 11:22:30 PM
Thats odd- my turn must not have gone through while llamaserver was undergoing whatever it was.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 14, 2013, 08:09:20 AM
I was surprised that your turn was still not in near deadline.  I sent in several minor last minute changes, including one at about an hour left and another with about 15 minutes left and they all went through.  I even got a confirmation from the server. 

The server was acting strangely as far as what it was reporting, but it was still receiving turns.  There was about a 2 hours stretch where it stopped reporting updates (saying it had last updated 2 hours earlier), but it eventually reported the updates.  Agartha got his turn in during that time (about an hour or 2 before deadline I think).  I noticed because it said no updates for 2 hours, but still changed to show his turn received, with yours being the only one left.

It is still reporting inaccurately, saying that everyone staled.  I can't speak for everyone, but it appears everyone else's turns were received and did go through correctly.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 16, 2013, 08:59:17 AM
ahh.  infamous nagot fell...

i think we'd better just ignore it.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 16, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
Well... that was odd. I just got a stale turn, despite most certainly having sent in my turn in and having recieved a confirmation message from the Llamaserver. Anyone else get a stale?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 16, 2013, 09:34:52 AM
We all staled, Haerdalas.

You don't want to simply refile the turns, parone?  I definitely would rather resubmit.

Given what I was doing last turn, I essentially had everyone sitting around, no research.  Staling definitely does not affect everyone equally.  If you were inactive the previous turn and already have almost all your mages researching or armies besieging a fort, you suffer very little.  If you were active and just used most of your mages to cast spells, forge, battle etc. you are pretty screwed.  I think I managed to have my worst research (already pathetic) in the past 30 turns----twice now.

I was worried that this might happen when the server showed us all already staling last turn.

Most of the games look like they show a staled last turn, but I don't see any with 2 staled turns.   I would check with Llama and see whether everyone has been experiencing stales, or whether the server is just misreporting.  It is possible that someone else with an early stage game has already tried multiple turns and can answer the questions as to 1) whether rollback causes a  screwup after the server snafu, 2) whether they kept getting nagot gik fel after that first misreported stale by server.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 16, 2013, 09:43:14 AM
Deleted double post
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 16, 2013, 09:56:12 AM
2nding what Bronwell said.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 16, 2013, 11:43:52 AM
Is it possible that we could get everyone to chime in on whether they want a rollback?  While I obviously have a preference, I'm fine with whatever we agree on.  That way we can get this process started as soon as possible. 

I would rather not wait another 2 days for us all to say something.  At which point we would or would not have a rollback, allowing another 2-3 days for us to get turns in... meaning sometime next week before we actually get to what have been today's turn.  Even if we decide not to rollback, deciding sooner would avoid   another extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 16, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
I wouldnt mind a rollback - like you I had a large number of troops engaged in combat. However I have heard that doing so is very risky and can easily result in the game becoming permanently corrupted. As in unrecoverable on the Llamaserver. I don't want to risk it if that is the case, so I vote no rollback.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 16, 2013, 01:35:40 PM
Haerdalas:

You make a good point as to the dangers of a rollback.  Like I said, I am fine either way.  I think I am just particularly annoyed as while nothing catastrophically bad happened, I managed to get a whole bunch of little annoying negatives.  The already mentioned low research on top of the inefficiencies which everyone experienced, on top of losing 2 mercenaries (and losing my half-price bidding).

If we decide on no rollback, is there any chance I can convince everyone to NOT bid on the 2 mercenaries I have had for a while?  I will already have to pay double what I was paying to get them back, it would add insult to injury to have to pay even more to ensure I get them.  If you bid last turn let me know and I will honestly tell you what I bid and not contest if you say you would have won.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 16, 2013, 02:25:40 PM
We did manage to survive the rollback that we had to do, for this same reason, a few turns ago.

Ill rollback again if that is what we want to do.  Though I am leery of it being the second time.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 17, 2013, 12:27:30 AM
my other game seems to have hosted just fine, so probably not a llamaserver thing?

EDIT: Never mind.  Am getting a 'wrong turn # error' (turn no. given as 16810...etc)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 17, 2013, 09:33:14 AM
Alastair:

I was going to send a report to llamabeast and see if he had any advice based on what others have experienced.  For the last turn, I remember you said you had previously sent your turn in and it wasn't received (you staled).  I noticed your orders were in almost immediately last turn.  I take it you processed a new set of turn orders and that wasn't just processing your previously sent turn orders? (turn 57)

Bronwell
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 17, 2013, 10:32:29 AM
Yeah, when I turned in the second set it worked.  I didn't get a notification for the first set-its possible it would have been fine had I simply resent.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 18, 2013, 07:21:37 AM
So any vote from Phobos or Faux as to whether they want to roll back?

If we don't hear from them I guess we will just assume they don't want to roll back and we go forward with next turn hosting in about 14 hours.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 18, 2013, 12:06:38 PM
Given that I also lost a massive amount of research, I'd very much like the turn to be rolled back, and don't think we should impute anything from their silence other than an abstention from any particular position.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 18, 2013, 01:24:45 PM
iguess I should delay?

I haven't done my turn yet, since I don't want to put the time in if we are rolling back.

but I have to be out tonight and i'm really busy tomorrow, so since we are undecided, i'm going to delay 48.  hope that is ok.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 18, 2013, 01:57:39 PM
I don't want to delay, but since we seem to be sitting on the fence, I think you have to delay until we decide what we are doing.  This late,  everyone is waiting to see what's going to happen and stales are virtually guaranteed.

The way I see it, we are roughly divided:

Parone:             no rollback
Haerdalas:        no rollback
Me (Bronwell):   rollback, but conflicted because of risk and willing to not rollback. 
Alastair:             rollback
Wingedflamez   ? - seems on the fence and conflicted for the same reasons I am.
Phobos              ?????
Faux                  ?????

Seems like 2 definite votes no rollback, 1 definite vote rollback, 2 fine either way, and 2 non-votes.

Given the possible catastrophic risk of rollback, I would change my vote to no rollback if we don't overwhelmingly agree to rollback.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 18, 2013, 02:32:34 PM
I agree with Bronwell, I think in the absence of overwhelming desire to rollback we should play safe, and play the turn as it happened.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 18, 2013, 02:48:55 PM
The reason I voted against rollback, despite it having cost me a fairly large amount, is just that after this much time with this many hour invested in this game I really don't want to do anything that would risk completely breaking the game. I would vote against rollback even if doing so somehow caused me to lose half a dozen provinces. It just isnt worth the risk with the game in such a late stage.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 19, 2013, 06:36:15 PM
ok, I guess we just play on? 

'a magical event rendered all troops stationary, and planned magics were impossible.  all nations and forces have emerged from this malaise ready for combat!'
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 19, 2013, 06:53:39 PM
Mrs Cake (don't ask) has left the area, we can stop hiding and start fighting again.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Phobos on October 20, 2013, 08:31:43 PM
Cocksucking microsoft has locked me out of my e-mail accounts.  All of them, my personal, gaming and business accounts.  I will need to establish a new account and jump through some hoops "for my protection."  I'm not giving the fuckers any more of my personal information.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 21, 2013, 05:31:36 AM
What, really? Damn... why did they do it to you? Any way to avoid it?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 21, 2013, 08:51:00 AM
god I hate Microsoft...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 21, 2013, 07:17:04 PM
Yeah, if there was a better alternative to Windows I would go with it.  I cant stand Mac, and I don't have the give-a-shits to learn Linux.

Maybe Google will come up with their own OS.  That would be nice :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 21, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
Wait, through an email client?  Can't you still log in manually through the browser?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 23, 2013, 04:57:17 PM
Has Phobos staled the last two turns?  It appears that he did as up until 10 minutes before this turn posted neither he nor Agartha appeared to have turns in.  It is impossible to check as the server shows all of us staling the last 3 turns.

I ask because he mentioned problems with his email account and I was wondering if he needed more time to get that straightened out.  I assume he meant that he couldn't receive the turns?  If that was the case, an admin could simply tell turns to be sent to a new email address.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 23, 2013, 05:14:39 PM
easy fix if I can get a new address
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 24, 2013, 08:55:23 PM
Phobos, if you could chime in here, that would be good.  If not, I move for a sub.  This is a good opportunity for someone to play endgame who normally doesn't get there, at least, and it is certainly better than AI.

W8aminute, maybe?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 24, 2013, 11:04:51 PM
I agree.  Given his position we would need to find a sub immediately as with the past 2 stales it seems he is about to be steamrolled.  I hate to say it, but we may need a delay to let someone sub in.   You might want to put out feelers now and see if anyone is interested.

If we don't get a response from Phobos soon someone can sub in and if Phobos is able to continue he can always take over.  It beats going AI and there is no coming back from that.

Just the thought of AI is making me grate my teeth.  In my last game the frontrunner steamrolled my two neighbors and they went AI.  Both their main armies immediately focused on me (their peaceful ally/neighbor) ignoring the behemoth that had taken 3/4ths of their territories.   
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 25, 2013, 07:16:36 AM
Hey guys.  alastair PM'ed me today alerting me to your need for a sub for Jotunheim.  I'm interested in helping out.  Let me know what I need to do. 

Parone I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 25, 2013, 09:33:33 AM
I'm going to throw an extra 48 hours onto the host time, which should get us through the weekend.

Also Has anyone checked with llama about the fact that everyone is showing as "stale" on teh site, but the turns are going through?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 25, 2013, 03:16:51 PM
wow.

I didn't know we needed a sub.

w8, i'd love to have you as a sub.  I just have to make sure we need one!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 25, 2013, 07:52:40 PM
I think the reasoning was that Jotunheim has pretty much gone AWOL, through no apparent fault of his own, and staled for basically the past week+, and it would probably be better to get some kind of sub for him rather than waiting to see if he reappears.  If he does, then he gets the position back.  If he doesn't, he doesn't.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 26, 2013, 05:29:10 AM
well, didn't he say he was going to stop playing at some point?

no biggy

w8, send me your email in a pm, you're in!! :)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 26, 2013, 06:54:42 AM
I think I sent you a pm yesterday.  I'll send another one now.

Thanks for the opportunity guys!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on October 26, 2013, 09:46:31 AM
Huh. Although Jotun may have defeated you before, in the end it is you who controls the fate of Jotun. Kinda ironic really.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 26, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
email changed.  thanks w8.  sounds like you have your work cut out for you...

is pythium still submitting turns?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 26, 2013, 02:56:00 PM
I am.  If there is any overflow interest I will probably take advantage of that, though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 26, 2013, 08:18:38 PM
Huh. Although Jotun may have defeated you before, in the end it is you who controls the fate of Jotun. Kinda ironic really.

Brilliant masterstroke on my part if I say so myself!   ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 27, 2013, 07:00:45 PM
ok W8, you've got until noon tomorrow EST.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 28, 2013, 07:13:05 AM
I meant to mention this yesterday but didn't get the chance.  I still haven't received the game file.  I've checked my junk folder and it's not in there either.  Is there anyway to retrieve the file from the server?  Won't be able to get to it until later on this evening my time.  GMT -5
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on October 28, 2013, 09:33:26 AM
I'm.glad something nagged at me to check the forum now. I put another 24 hours W8.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 28, 2013, 09:37:56 AM
W8.  I sent you a message yesterday saying how to have the game file resent.  You just go to the game page on llamaserver and click the link at the bottom that says request turn resend.  If it is not resending, you may need to have parone recheck the email address it is set to for Jotun.
Here's the game page link again:

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=DOOOM

For what it's worth, I just realized that anyone can request that any turn be resent, so I requested a resend of Jotunheim's turn.  If you don't receive it shortly then ask Parone to recheck the email set up for Jotun.  You may want to give him an alternate email to use.  It is possible that gmail or @yahoo or whatever email you are using may not play nice with the server.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 28, 2013, 11:13:41 AM
Hmmm...still have not received it and I tried the link per your suggestion Bronwell.  I just realized you sent me the instructions yesterday too and sorry I missed it.  I'll contact parone now and ask him to check Jotun's email setup.

w8
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 28, 2013, 11:45:38 AM
Suggestion:  Try a different email address then the one you had for Vanheim.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 28, 2013, 11:51:47 AM
^Good idea.  Maybe the same email address can't be used for more than one player even if the player got eliminated.

I'll send a new email to parone via PM.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 28, 2013, 12:54:43 PM
I tried a second email address with parone but still no luck.  I'm trying another manual resend.  I have a third email account on a non gmail/yahoo type system however I'm unwilling to use it as it gets a lot of spam each day the rules I have in place on the inbox are restrictive. 

I suppose I could create yet another email, maybe use msn this time?  Maybe subbing does not work anymore on llama?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 28, 2013, 01:16:06 PM
No, the resend button doesn't work.

Source:  I tried to resend to me.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 28, 2013, 04:25:45 PM
changed the email three times(to two different addresses)  no luck :-\
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 28, 2013, 04:36:44 PM
I saw Pythium's message about resend button not working and tried to resend my own turn to myself.  It did work.  I wondered if the resend button was just broken since llama has been tinkering with server, but apparently it works.  I did receive my resent turn within 2-3 minutes.

I would check with Llama and see if he has any advice.  When I go to the admin log, it shows that the email address for Jotun has been changed 3 times in the last few days.

For what it's worth, my email is not one of the standard free accounts like gmail etc.  It is possible it is getting caught on the IP server side in a spam filter (that you can't see).
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 28, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Pythium resend worked this time.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on October 31, 2013, 12:54:11 PM
I have changed the address for pythium to the new sub.

whoever you are, feel free to introduce yourself!!

also, w8, any luck?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on October 31, 2013, 12:58:18 PM
Sorry guys.  I've not had any luck with the turn resend.  I just now clicked again and will wait to see if I get the turn.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on October 31, 2013, 12:59:16 PM
Sub suggested that he needs a 24 hr extension.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on October 31, 2013, 02:18:58 PM
So I take it someone has substituted for Pythium as well as Jotun?  I didn't even realize Pythium was looking for a sub.

I sent a message to Llama days ago re: the sub problem but have not received any response.  It may simply be that the after the changes something is broken with subbing.

Greetings mysterious Pythium sub. Welcome to the game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 01, 2013, 07:16:30 AM
I added the 24 hr extension last night. Any word on what is going on?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 01, 2013, 10:02:38 AM
I see that Pythium has posted a turn.  Was that by Alastair or the new Pythium sub?  And any word on who the sub is?

Could you please respond and let us know, as that would explain whether the sub is receiving turns from llamaserver, and therefore the Jotunheim turn problem with w8taminute is not a server issue, but likely something to do with whatever emails he is trying to use.  W8taminute may need to try another email ASAP

Once we get the sub situation sorted out, is there any chance of getting turns moved back to their normal 48 hour hosting rather than 60 hour hosting?  The only person who posted in favor of 60 hours was Alastair, who apparently was the one who requested the initial change.  Since he has left, the only other votes I see in the thread were all in favor of 48 hours.  From my point of view, the frequent delays, on top of that long 60 hour hosting have really hurt the game.  At least I have learned something for the future.  I will only participate in games with long turn hostings OR generous extensions, never both.  I think I assumed generous extensions meant the turn hostings could be kept relatively short.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 01, 2013, 10:16:16 AM
I think the idea was that he basically made a request for a constant extension.

I have no problem with rolling back to 48 hours if everyone is fine with it as well.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on November 01, 2013, 11:29:22 AM
Guys, for whatever reason I don't seem to be getting the save file.  At this point I'm not able to put any more time into troubleshooting the problem.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 01, 2013, 12:16:07 PM
If W8taminute is definitely not going to be posting this turn, can an admin simply force turn hosting right now?  The only turn left is Jotun.  It seems silly to keep an extra 9 hours, especially when it prevents working on turns tonight by delaying turn hosting into the middle of the night U.S. central time.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on November 01, 2013, 02:21:05 PM
I'm ok with forcing this turn to continue so that we don't have to wait another 9 hours.  I wonder if I'll get the new Jotun turn if this one is processed?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: alastair on November 02, 2013, 12:17:06 AM
It was my replacement who submitted the turn.  Good luck to everyone.  By way of explanation, I've been having issues with regular employment that have been causing significant travel commitments, so I've been seeking to reduce my other commitments.  This was why I requested the extension and grabbed a sub when the opportunity came up.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 02, 2013, 08:26:31 AM
Thanks for playing, Alastair.  It's understandable that real life takes precedence.  Good luck!

Any word on who the sub is?  It is difficult to have any diplomacy when we don't even know who is playing Pythium.

If everyone is OK with shifting the host time back to 48 hours, can we do so before this turn hosts so it takes effect next turn?

Lastly, I assume we should probably send Jotun to AI.  At this point, it is not likely to be an enticing sub, given that Pythium master enslaved his main army after that long siege last turn and he is down to a handful of provinces.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 06, 2013, 07:10:20 AM
So can we change hosting interval to 48 hours, Parone?

And can we set Jotun to AI  for multiple reasons, including at least token defense and getting turns to host before max time?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gman8181 on November 06, 2013, 03:53:10 PM
Please excuse my absence so far; I'm the new sub. While I had intended to make an account here and give a shout out earlier, I've been a little busy and I figured as long as the turns got submitted you'd all forgive me ;D.

Anyway looking forward to crushing you all under the boots of my soldiers getting to know you all and making new friends. Should be fun!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on November 07, 2013, 11:47:39 AM
hey folks(whoever is left)

as you may have seen, I am looking for a sub for my position.  I have not been able to spend more than a few minutes per turn, and have not done any justice to things.

bronwell is also expressing a desire to call it quits.  his solution is to declare Tien Chi the winner, as Bronwell feels TC is in an unassailable position.

how do the rest of you feel about closing this game out?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: W8taminute on November 07, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
I will also bow out as Jotun's sub.  I just don't have the time to put in unfortunately.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 07, 2013, 01:03:11 PM
...I want to keep going, but then again I do think I am doing pretty well. Now that I finally have an army of SCs, I wish I could actually use them, but if noone else has time then I guess I don't mind putting the winner to a vote. Seems a shame really, I haven't even fought against either of the two other largest players yet.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 07, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
As Parone noted, I am ready to concede to Tien Chi, in part due to limited time I will have in the coming months.  While I am in a much stronger position than I was 10-15 turns ago, and finally cranking out research, I don't think I could catch Tien unless the whole world united against Tien, as they probably should have done the instant Forge hit the table.

Given Tien's gem lead, all the artifacts, and the snowballing that is going to happen shortly with all those SC, I simply don't think we will overcome his lead.

If I had 6-7 or so turns of uninterrupted research, while the rest of the world shut down Tien's expansion AND they got rid of his Forge, I think I could be competitive with him.   I finally have enough research that I would not be completely helpless against those SC.  His main weakness that I see is limited ability to crack/defend forts, something at which all my chaff excels.  So I have to delay/avoid war with Tien for a good 6 months while I get needed research to compete with him, and Pythium is simply too far away to effectively go to war with Tien, meaning Tien is going to have uninterrupted expansion for another 6+ turns with Forge up and a growing gem/province/gold lead.  Shinu is limited even more than I am by research.  Tien should simply have too big a lead by the time he and Pythium fight.

I definitely learned a lot this game.  It's funny how with my limited research all game, my planned research goals had to give way again and again to what was needed immediately to survive.  The end-result is me only now getting, or about to get, some of my initial planned research goals, years after I expected them.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 07, 2013, 05:38:07 PM
I was putting together a unit that I was actually wanting to see pitted against Tien Chis Grendlekin.  I would like to do that if is Haer is up for it.

You have 2 Grendelkin next to territory 166 Forest of Idun, move one of them into there and I will also move my unit there.  One on one fight.

No extra armies, I will say that I have only 1 point of PD in that territory, so it shouldn't interfere with the fight at all.  I wont even bring the 49 support units I had for him.

But I too think that Tien CHi will steamroll.  As Bronwell stated I don't have the research to shut him down and he has a ton of low level mages that could be cranking out boosters and then be released on a rampage, even without his SCs.  I cant stop that, I'm not even sure if Pythium could stop that.  This drawn out war with Joten killed me, I lost too many resources in the fight, and had to dedicate too many casters to even try to get through that my research suffered heavily, as if a Drain 3 scale wasn't enough, I wont do that ever again.  Except maybe with Ulm, they aren't affected by drain.

Also I woudl like to apologize for how I was earlier in the game about the situation with Joten.  I had lost my job and I was gettign really stressed and depressed.  I really hope that yall will still want to play dom4 with me at a later date.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 07, 2013, 06:08:39 PM
Yeah... as of this turn I have every single research path except blood at level 9... I can summon 4 Grendlekin and equip them every 3 turns, while simultaneously summoning Tartarians who are healed by my Chalice... I have the forge up, and pretty much every artifact in the game, or at least the good ones.

Winged... sorry, but not quite yet. If it gets confirmed that the game is ending then I will send one of my grendlekin to fight your guy, but otherwise I still have uses for them. What is your anti-Grendlekin unit, by the way?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gman8181 on November 07, 2013, 06:22:57 PM
Aww what a buzz kill. It's all of your game though. Whatever you decide, I will accept.

If a Dominions 4 game gets started up, feel free to shoot over a PM.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 07, 2013, 06:26:48 PM
Its the best that I could come up with on short notice.  Its a Tarrasque with a few pieces of gear.  The nice thing about it is though, it would also be good against PD.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 08, 2013, 03:31:41 AM
A Tarrasque? Unless it has ridiculous gear, I don't think it will help much. Bandar is throwing about 7 or 8 Tarrasques at me right now, and tbh they mainly seem to end up killing him own men. I don't think they would beat a Grendlekin in a 1v1 under any circumstances. 2v1 maybe, 3v1 quite possibly, but not 1v1. 
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 08, 2013, 04:44:16 AM
Like I said Im Curious, It has very specific gear on.  Im not sure what Bandar is equipping with.  On paper mine should have a fighting chance... depending on what gear you have.  Id still like to see it.

It sort of looks like there are 4 people in favor of calling the game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 08, 2013, 07:10:57 AM
Hmm. Well, if we do fight, it will be against the greatest of my Grendlekin. Fluffy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 08, 2013, 07:48:19 AM
Bring it.   ;D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 08, 2013, 09:17:02 AM
Ahhh.. that's a bit of an unfair matchup Haerdalas.  I was theory crafting and figured 2 properly equipped Tarrasques had decent odds to kill your standard Grendelkin assuming you didn't change their gear to poison resistance. If you change gear then other options would work better.

Bandar wasted his tarrasques due to hasty turns. All those troops just got in the way and caused hp rout.  Not to mention his was totally unequipped. Bile from 1 Tarrasque caused 11 damage per turn after 5 rounds.  2 of them would basically cancel your regen and damage would then accumulate from their bites.  Poison clouds would keep Grendelkin regen basically cancelled.  2 str32 AP attacks,  2 str30 with luck v 1 str 48 AP attack & aoe fire with luck and vine shield.  Basically identical HP and regen but nothing cancelling Tarrasque regen.  Between luck and regen Tarrasques will stay full hp.

2 Tarrasques minimum maybe 3.  Set to fire bile 5 turns then attack.  Minimal chaff (10-15) to delay grendel 5 turns, ideally unfrozen/dustwalkers or something with cold/heat aura for fatigue.  Luck charm.  Girdle of might minimum.  2 of those cost 50 gems.  Cheaper than your standard 65 gem Grendelkin (counting forge but not hammers-Grendelkin (40),fire brand(4), vine shield(5), luck amulet(2), ring of regeneration(5), rainbow armor(4), boots of flying(5)).  Lycanthropos amulet and astral serpent are some potential useful additions to the Tarrasques.  I can think of other possible additions, but those could help the Grendelkin as well.

Mage Bane and Aegis are not really a representative fight.  Fluffy can't be everywhere every turn.  Ember and that master axe are also nasty but not in the same league as best weapon best shield in game.  A normal Grendelkin would be more representative if we all attacked you at once.  Fluffy would get special love like Claw of Cocytos.

Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 08, 2013, 10:07:34 AM
Well, I wouldnt worry too much about hp rout, I was bringing 49 longed horse to the fight originally. 50 morale. hey would have slowed him down.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 08, 2013, 10:27:38 AM
Hehe.  In my last game longead horsemen were one of the primary ways I won the game.  I was Sauromatia.  Got Earth Deep Blood Well up and was swimming in Earth gems.  I cast 13+ Hidden in Sand and all my undead priests raised horsemen, along with my black servant prophet all game.  Ability to raise horsemen is a really nice hidden benefit to Sauromatia, and unexpected by most since no undead priests.  Raising them saved me a ton of gems.

Early on they gave me useful chaff, later on, buffed with lots of earth magic they took down many unsuspecting thugs/SC who attacked what looked like weak provinces.  One or two of those priests with them buffed Weapons of Sharpness, Strength of Giants, Marble Warriors,  Legions of Steel, then damage/fatigue spells based on paths.  Those lances really are nasty when buffed and they are nice for disposable chaff.  Those and the Dust Walkers/Warriors and Priests won me that game.  Many Fomorian Kings ended up skewered.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 08, 2013, 10:30:18 AM
Not for long. The Aegis slaughters normal troops.

Yeah, enough Tarrasques could take down my guys fairly quickly, but what you forget is that I have better attack/defense skills than Tarrasques, so I would be hitting him much more often than he hits me. Still, 2v1 is not a situation I want, thus why I have only rarely fought Bandar's army head on so far.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 08, 2013, 10:46:07 AM
Att/Defense is misleading, actually roughly same.  4 attacks v 1 attack mean much lower defense.  Your defense is 12 + shield.  Tarrasque attack is 12 and bite is AP meaning shield wouldn't do much.  You get 1 attack per turn and half the time luck would negate.  Luck negates half the Tarrasque attacks, but not the poison per turn, or the -2 defense/attack.  One issue I forgot to mention is that while you would have regen, you would still be taking massive amounts of damage from poison, most of which would regen.  Even with the regen bonus, all that damage would give you decent chances to be afflicted.  The Tarrasques have the same risk, but with only one being hit, only one would get the afflictions, leaving you more vulnerable to hits from the other.  Also, Tarrasques are much less reliant on their equipment so care less for slots lost due to affliction. If they survive, they do have recuperation.

As I said, Aegis is a bad example, best way to deal with that would be mindhunt the hell out of it or Claw of Cocytos/Inferno (even better because takes it out of action so you can't forge a new one)  If all you had was Fluffy, this game would be nowhere near over.  One SC, no matter how good, is easily dealt with at endgame magic.

As for Bandar, his main problem was relying on armies at all, that was counterproductive. Your Grendelkin are DESIGNED to kill armies.  Counterthugs and MindHunting would have been a much more effective, and cheaper alternative.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 08, 2013, 10:57:04 AM
True, though I think you will find Mindhunt to be very ineffective. He has 26 magic resistance, the odd are ridiculously in his favour. The blood spells that through him into other dimensions would probably be my worst nightmare though, nothing protects against them, and iirc they have pretty low requirements too...
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 08, 2013, 11:08:47 AM
Even 26 MR is doable.  I know all the other Grendelkin have 21.  With +5 Magic Pen that is a whopping 30% chance to kill MR 21 per cast. (+3 on chart on pg 5 of manual - despite many manual errors, this chart is correct.  Testing has confirmed that MindHunt tests v MR 13 (victim must beat 13 or die)- the spell treats MH spell as level 0 so Astral 4 casting it gives +2 to standard MR11 test.

End result - 8% chance to kill Fluffy (actually 92% chance for you to succeed on a +8 check) and 30% chance to kill MR 21 (+3 check), assuming full +5 MR pen gear and no more than Astral 4.

12-13 Mindhunts for 24-26 gems seems a small price to pay to kill Fluffy. 6-8 gems to kill each other Grendelkin is likewise a bargain.  That is also the sizable investment in MR penetration items.  Of course you can always try to counter with astral mages, but the more limited you are in how you use your Grendelkin, the less able you would be able to win against the world.  If you couldn't send them all aggressively solo into separate provinces every turn, you could not keep up with a world-wide counterattack.  You wouldn't be able to snowball the same way.

Yeah the Blood 9 spells are ridiculous.  Research requirements are high, but casting requirements are low.  Unfortunately, I am only at Blood-7 and had to focus on other priorities first.  IF you attacked me immediately I would switch to blood and have that in 3 turns.  I will have 850 Research this turn and at least 950-1000 next turn, assuming I can use my mages to research.  If I wasn't attacked and could keep my priorities, I would still have it in 6-8 turns at the latest.  By 8 turns from now I would have hit every research goal I care about, assuming I could focus on research.  Conjuration 9 would start to give me Tarts which Gift of Health would heal.  I am summoning my 4th Arch Devil this turn, leaving only 1 more out there to summon.  With 100+blood income per turn, I could empower a couple of them to cast Banish to Inferno immediately.  I would likely Empower once and give +2-3 Blood in items for a total Blood cost of 115-140 each (in addition to past summon costs of 99 a pop).  If I had to rush, I have 8 blood boosters already, but I would rather keep using them for blood hunting.  I could also spend 150 slaves to summon the Demon Lords, 3/4 of which can cast Banish to Inferno, assuming they are not already taken.

I also forgot that I have a couple of bloodhunting Llamia Queens with Blood and Water already, so they can already cast the Cocytos spell with 2 boosters.  They are obviously a good bit more fragile, but are available the instant I hit Blood 9.

Unfortunately, by the time I could do all that, Grendelkin would have covered the world. ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 08, 2013, 05:33:41 PM
OK well, bring on the Grendlekin Haer.  Lets see what happens.  Id like to bring my 49 riders, but one on one would be more interesting.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gman8181 on November 08, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
Are we still playing or not?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 08, 2013, 07:57:22 PM
Im going to post a turn.  Mainly to see my last fort battle and to get my 4th arch devil but i suspect this may be the last turn.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 09, 2013, 06:22:37 AM
Im going to post my turn as well.

I just checked the score graphs, and while I was behind in research, my dominion in awesome.  makes me wish I had been playing a blood sac nation and gone for dom kill.  Though I'm pretty sure that is hard, and also I don't feel up to dealing with a  blood nation yet.

Also, how much damage can fluffy do per turn, and what is his regen?

Because the way my tarrasque Is geared out, He has 2 attacks a turn, one doing 32 armor piercing, and the second doing 30, plus the poison cloud.  His attack is 17.

But anyway, im posting my turn now, come fight me Grendlekin, I dare you.   :D
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 09, 2013, 06:53:01 AM
Not usre if Fluffy can arrive this turn, might have to be next turn. I will check.

Fluffy does a mere 50 or so damage a turn. But a single hit and it knocks you unconscious, leaving you vulnerable to critical hits. Also, you must make an MR check every time you attack or die instantly.

He regens 36 hp per turn. Heroic Toughness gives him 360 hp.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 09, 2013, 06:59:54 AM
Forget that, he can make it. And |I was slightly wrong - his heroic toughness has improved, and he now has 391 hp and regens 41hp per turn (? not 10%?)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 09, 2013, 07:57:06 AM
Yeah I cant handle fluffy.  I've got 25 regen a turn, but getting knocked unconscious if I get hit, Which I will, I cant take that kind of a beating.

Will see what happens though.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 09, 2013, 09:14:01 AM
Huh. Not sure what happened there, but I apparently staled. Weird.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 09, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Lol.  I thought to myself, knowing me I will get the 3000 gold event now after not getting any good gold events all game.  I was wrong.  I got the best event in game - the 3000 gold plus magic items (winged helmet) plus massive pile of fire gems (only 11).  That would have been a huge boost to my research earlier in game since my best mages are not cap only.  I've been gold starved all game until the last 6 turns.  Ah well. 4909 gold to spend on last turn. ;)
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 09, 2013, 01:52:30 PM
Is it definate that the game is ending then? With who as the winner, me?
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 09, 2013, 02:41:26 PM
I'm fine with ending the game now, conceding to Haerdalas the winner.

After my last lucky turn, and with Haerdalas slightly slowed down by his stale, I would be willing to play a few more turns to see if everyone ganging up on him could slow him down, if most others still wanted to play a few turns, maybe see a few battles, and if we could speed things up by moving back to 48 hour hosting and setting Jotun to AI.  We have been averaging 2 turns a week and at that pace this was going to take many months to finish mopping up.  At 3-4 turns a week, it would be more bearable and resolve faster.  I do feel bad somewhat, as I feel somewhat like quitting now would be unfair to Haerdalas.  He has spent the whole game, pretty much playing the long game, and now that we are finally at the endgame, I'm quitting before he really gets a chance to play with all the toys he has built.   The game is not yet at the point at which he owns most of the provinces, most of the gem and gold income and at which it truly just becomes unfun for everyone else to play.  I know that when I won my last(and first) MP game by concession a few months ago, I wished it had gone a little bit longer so I could use all the things I had planned for and built.

I still think that TC is likely to win and given that many didn't even turn in this turn, it might be best to just call this game.  I leave it up to everyone else, but my vote would still be to end the game.  If most others still wanted to play, I would be willing to continue for a couple of weeks, maybe a month, if we could speed up the pace to 3-4 turns a week by setting hosting to 48 hours and setting missing players to AI.   I definitely would need to stop or have a sub in December.

Regardless of what happens, I have enjoyed the game.  Thanks for playing.  I look forward to seeing the rest of you in the future in Dominions 4.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 09, 2013, 03:17:48 PM
The problem with playing on is that one of my main ways of going for the long game was to be fairly innocuous and to appear to be less of a threat than I actually was. Had you not basically told everyone I was the biggest threat, I would have hope to remain relatively unbothered by other players for at least a bit longer. If everyone ganged up on me right now, I would probably lose. Had things continued as they were, I would have likely taken most of Bandar before a true alliance against me came about, particularly as I made efforts to be on pretty good terms with everyone. 

This has been a fun game, and I would be proud to be able to announce that I won this, my first ever multiplayer Dominions game.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 09, 2013, 06:42:35 PM
I hate To say this dude since you were honorable all game, but I was about to hit you with a couple units of dust warriors. And shortly later probably some unfrozen. I had decided before Bronwell said anything that you were probably gonn ahave to be dealt with.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 10, 2013, 05:10:04 AM
Ah. Fair enough. To be honest, I had planned to attack you for a very, very long time. But first I had to deal with Agartha because they had some very large armies that I feared leaving at my back. Then, just as I started finishing off Agartha, Bandar attacked and forced me to retaliate. Though I was not looking forwards to fighting you,  the only reason I had yet to do so was down to more troublesome neighbours.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 10, 2013, 08:38:55 AM
So what are the votes as to continuing for a little while with faster turns?

Parone was looking for a sub so I assume his vote is stop now.

Gman, the pythium sub, wanted to continue.

Wingedflamez appeared to want to continue a bit but not clear.

Haerdalas appeared to want to continue but now not clear.

Agartha I assume doesnt care as only holding 2 provinces.

If Haerdalas and Winged want to keep playing, I will continue for a while with faster turns.  I definitely wont continue at the slow constantly extended pace we had the last several months.


Parone, could you set Jotun to AI and turns to 48 hours?  It wont have any effect if we quit but would greatly speed things up if we keep going.   If parone wants a sub or doesnt have time for turns it may be best for him to simply go AI

Could everyone please confirm what you want to do so everyone doesn't waste time doing turns or have to rush to get turn done because they thought this was done
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 10, 2013, 09:04:09 AM
I am willing to let the game end.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 10, 2013, 03:16:39 PM
I am for stopping. I would like to see the outcome of the fight between my tarrasque and one of haers grendlekin. Though at this point for the sake of being at all interesting it would be nice if it wasn't fluffy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 10, 2013, 03:25:45 PM
Very well. I will send a generic Grendlekin up there instead.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 11, 2013, 04:07:58 AM
It doesn't have to be an out of the box grendlekin, unless that's all you have other than epic gear fluffy.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 11, 2013, 04:33:57 AM
I meant one with standard gear - Brand, Vineshield, Rainbow armour, Luck talisman, Regen ring.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Haerdalas on November 12, 2013, 09:59:09 AM
Well... it looks like that fight was pretty much a standstill, though I think you technically won at the end there. We both got afflictions, but I got the one the increases encumbrance, so I fatigued out. Before then, neither of us could consistently damage the other enough to beat the regen. Interesting.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: gman8181 on November 12, 2013, 11:43:15 AM
I'm still unclear on whether or not we're playing.

If you guys are done or are just goofing off a couple turns before calling it quits then I'll set my nation to AI.

If we're still going at it, then I'd like to know as I need to make plans on who to target after I'm done eating Jotun and all the fun stuff involved in that. I'd rather not go about creating any grand and elaborate strategies if they aren't going to be put to use.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 12, 2013, 12:19:49 PM
I think we are done. I have no ideas of being able to beat back the tide that is going to be torn chi in about 2 turns. And I don't even think a coalition would be able.to stop it in.time. I was simply wanting to experiment. The game can close.out at this point if so desired.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Bronwell on November 12, 2013, 01:45:11 PM
I'm done.  We can close out.  Congratulations, Haerdalas!
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: Wingedflamez on November 12, 2013, 04:52:55 PM
Yes Congratulations.

That fight was really messed up, you were definitely right, I don't think the fight would have ever ended, we could break each others Regen.  I also completely forgot that the head piece he had auto summoned all those longdead.  I am pretty sure that with the extra 49 horsemen I was going to bring along I could probably have dealt with him.  It really looked like when the longdead were also attacking that there was enough of a defense decrease in the grendlekin for multiple hits to land and that would break his regen.  Problem was that the longdead kept being tanglevined by the shield and it would disrupt the attacks long enough for the regen to kick back in.
Title: Re: DOOM
Post by: parone on November 13, 2013, 12:35:26 PM
congrats to Haerdalus