Grogheads Interviews - Steve from Battlefront!

[MOS:96B2P]

Great questions asked and informative answers given.

As informative as Steve can be, I suppose.  He dodged as many questions as he answered.

GH: Do you have plans to expand more features from the original Combat Mission like the "Move to Contact", "Shoot and Scoot" orders or the Line of Sight tool.....?

Steve: It's amazing how good the game engine is after all these years! 

Below, in italics, is the complete answer.  When taken in context with the original question the answer makes sense. 

IMO This was one of the better interviews of Steve.  The person asking the questions was obviously very familiar with the game.  Very good questions and mostly interesting answers.  The below answer has a lot to unpack.  Seems to be hints to the future, above and beyond the original question about troop orders.  For players who are interested in the game and the loyal customer base that buy & play the game these are exciting times at BFC.   :)       

We started working on Combat Mission 2's engine 17 years ago!  It's amazing how good the game engine is after all these years, however we are coming to the point where adding big things takes longer with a less satisfying end result than we'd like.  The evolutionary routes for us to explore are definitely narrowing or even dead ending.  There's still a lot of life left in CM2, so we're not ceasing development on it, but we are keeping our own expectations more modest than we have in the past.

[Michael Dorosh]

Great questions asked and informative answers given.

As informative as Steve can be, I suppose.  He dodged as many questions as he answered.

GH: Do you have plans to expand more features from the original Combat Mission like the "Move to Contact", "Shoot and Scoot" orders or the Line of Sight tool.....?

Steve: It's amazing how good the game engine is after all these years! 

Below, in italics, is the complete answer.  When taken in context with the original question the answer makes sense. 

IMO This was one of the better interviews of Steve.  The person asking the questions was obviously very familiar with the game.  Very good questions and mostly interesting answers.  The below answer has a lot to unpack.  Seems to be hints to the future, above and beyond the original question about troop orders.  For players who are interested in the game and the loyal customer base that buy & play the game these are exciting times at BFC.   :)       

We started working on Combat Mission 2's engine 17 years ago!  It's amazing how good the game engine is after all these years, however we are coming to the point where adding big things takes longer with a less satisfying end result than we'd like.  The evolutionary routes for us to explore are definitely narrowing or even dead ending.  There's still a lot of life left in CM2, so we're not ceasing development on it, but we are keeping our own expectations more modest than we have in the past.

What's the exciting part, out of curiosity.... the part where he admits the accelerated turn-around time for new products they predicted in 2006 is a bust, or the part where he admits they will never be able to produce as feature-rich a product as they did with the first engine?

He was asked a specific question about what kind of features, new commands, UI etc. we will see in future and he replied by calling development a dead end. (I mean - you quoted it right there.)  Further on he mentions there will be no new "families" of games. A broad hint that all those still dreaming of North Africa, early war (39-40), Pacific Theatre, Vietnam etc. shouldn't hold their breath.  But in typical Steve Style he points out they launched Cold War from out of the blue so no one should really believe anything one way or another.

In other words, if Combat Mission was a novel, Steve would be the "unreliable narrator" of the story. His "mostly interesting" answers weren't answers at all. Hey, its his circus and his monkeys, but nothing he says can be taken at face value. Too many projects have come forth out of the blue (Touch, Afghanistan, Cold War...) and anyone who has been paying attention realizes, he keeps them close to the vest. An honest reading of this interview shows it is just more of the same.

I get that he has been burned, and often, by making promises they legitimately couldn't keep by unanticipated snags. Nature of the biz. But I read the interview through twice now and I'm at a loss to find anything to get excited about. He committed to nothing and spoke in generalities. The only things he was firm on was stuff they won't or can't do.

[Michael Dorosh]

Well done Boggit!

I'll echo this, incidentally, the questions showed great preparation and an understanding of the topic that many interviewers don't have.

[Elvis]

There's still a lot of life left in CM2, so we're not ceasing development on it, but we are keeping our own expectations more modest than we have in the past.[/i][/i][/i]

......we will see in future and he replied by calling development a dead end. (I mean - you quoted it right there.) 

I debated whether or not to reply. But the dishonesty in this post compelled. "you quoted it right there". Yes, he did. And in that quote Steve explicitly said "we're not ceasing development"....Not "calling development a dead end"

So, to address a few of your mischaracterizations.

A broad hint that all those still dreaming of North Africa, early war (39-40), Pacific Theatre, Vietnam etc. shouldn't hold their breath.

Battlefront, long before I came onboard has always said that there will never be a Pacific Theater or Vietnam game. Since 1999 they have said that. And they have said no North Africa since CM2 came out. Anyone who has followed the game's development has heard this. People following have been given more of an expectation of seeing Space Lobsters of Doom than those. If something unexpected like Cold War were to pop up then, great. Awesome. But no one should expect that. The opposite. They expect to not see them.

the part where he admits the accelerated turn-around time for new products they predicted in 2006 is a bust

Did we expect to put out more content than we have? Sure but let's look at the previous model compared to CM2. CM1 released 3 games in 4 years. In the 14 years that CM2 has been out we have had 10 major releases (CMSF2 was as much a full new game as anything). 7 significant releases (Modules). 3 minor releases (Packs). 4 engine Upgrades. That's more than a 1 year average. And it doesn't take into account the multiple military contract releases. That's close to 2 releases a year. "But none of them have a complete theater, like CMBO, CMBB and CMAK". Yeah, no kidding. Does that mean they take less time to produce? The level of detail involved in the TO&E for each release is mind blowing. From configuration of formations down to number of rounds of ammo and number of men and what weapons each squad carries.

or the part where he admits they will never be able to produce as feature-rich a product as they did with the first engine?

This one may be the most egregious and dishonest of all. The overwhelming number of features in the current engine compared to the original series is a tsunami. Does it have every feature of the original series? No. But to imply that it is less "feature-rich" shows either a lack of understanding about the differences in the games or a willful mischaracterization.

[Elvis]

Also, at the risk of droning on. I haven't spoken to Steve about this but one thing that I know in life. If you have something new that you want to announce..... A new feature and new title..... whatever.... you first announce it on your own platform. As has been pointed out, Boggit did an outstanding job of asking prepared questions. But is the interviewee going let someone else scope his own site? That's why, Michael, you didn't see much new in about upcoming content. With interviews like Boggit did, people on Grogheads got information that they may not have gotten because they don't go to the Battlefront site. Just because it wasn't new to you doesn't mean it wasn't new to people here.

[al_infierno]

Also, at the risk of droning on. I haven't spoken to Steve about this but one thing that I know in life. If you have something new that you want to announce..... A new feature and new title..... whatever.... you first announce it on your own platform. As has been pointed out, Boggit did an outstanding job of asking prepared questions. But is the interviewee going let someone else scope his own site? That's why, Michael, you didn't see much new in about upcoming content

This is a very good point - we shouldn't expect Steve to announce something in an interview that he hasn't already announced on his own website.

[Michael Dorosh]

This is a very good point - we shouldn't expect Steve to announce something in an interview that he hasn't already announced on his own website.

Shouting into the silo of your own fanboys doesn't seem like a great way to generate buzz, but of course, marketing has never been their strong suit.

Put another way - why not expect that?

Unless BFC has decided they're not interested in growing their base - which is very possible at this point. You see it in other communities, the Advanced Squad Leader board game community comes to mind. Despite coming up with the ASL Starter Kits, I get the feeling they decided years ago to just sell new content to their dedicated fans. Which is why reprints of core modules are so slow, and why so little attention is paid to prerequisite inter-dependencies when new products come to market. They just assume they are selling to people who own everything they've published already. Not a terrible position to be in, if that base is big enough and you can get new content out fast enough.

[Michael Dorosh]

If something unexpected like Cold War were to pop up then

You're only making my point for me. Steve is an unreliable narrator. He swears up and down they're not going to do something - until they do.

Did we expect to put out more content than we have? Sure

We agree, then.

The overwhelming number of features in the current engine compared to the original series is a tsunami. 

Depends on how you're using the word "feature."  I mean, if you are pointing to the number of quick battle maps as a feature, there are a ton of them (and good ones), but the original game never had quick battles. They had a pretty good random map generator, something we no longer enjoy, nor the "map tiles" Steve talked up a few years ago, which apparently was one of those dead-ends....

The interviewer asked about some very specific "features" which Steve ignored. The overwhelming impression I got from reading the interview is that development has gone about as far as it can go.  That's not terrible if the fans are happy with the current feature set, and I get the impression the main fan base is. Though if no more "families" are coming, and feature development has become slow and harder to do, per Steve's own comments, the only thing left to get excited about would be a) new content for the existing games and b) whatever secret games and features Steve has promised never to do but was being dishonest about.

Cold War was the first title (other than Afghanistan and Touch, which I don't count with the other CM titles) that I passed on.  It wasn't by any lack of effort on Bil H's part, I enjoyed his AAR posts. It just seemed too much like CMSF to me to get me excited.

[MOS:96B2P]

Good interview and exciting times for Battlefront.  The release of the Fire and Rubble module for Combat Mission Red Thunder, a new partnership with Slitherine, another military contract, selling games on Steam,  PBEM+++ system on Steam (WIP) and a new game family, Combat Mission Cold War.  Also more people seem to be getting involved with making mods and creating independent scenarios & campaigns.  Lots of stuff going on at BFC.  Over on the BFC forums Steve posted the below, in italics, in the last few days:
       
As I said in the interview, we are at a minimum committed to making Modules for Black Sea, Final Blitzkrieg, and Cold War along with several Battle Packs.  Several of these are well underway already.  We'll be talking about them in detail pretty soon.


Steve also mentioned he was open to Combat Mission Afghanistan CM:A2.  He said BFC doesn't own the content and they're having difficulty getting authorization to do something with it.  Just the fact that Battlefront is attempting to track down the owners and get authorization is exciting news for CMA fans and BF fans in general.  IMO this is another indication of Battlefronts continued interest in the CM2 engine.  When CM2 is done this will probably lead to CM3 which many look forward to.

While Shock Force 2 has much more content and is one of the games I play the most the Cold War title is very interesting.  Especially for players who served during the Cold War.  CMCW has both European terrain and desert terrain (NTC).  The National Training Center (NTC) terrain allows players to fight over the areas they may have trained in.  Very cool to fight over NTC terrain like Debnam Pass, Brown Pass, The Goat Trail, Crash Hill, The Washboard etc.  And to fight against a Soviet Forward Security Element (FSE) emerging out of the dust from Brown Pass.  With the editor and a new Cold War module on the way I'm really looking forward to independent scenarios & campaigns using mods that will recreate many of the bush wars / proxy wars of the cold war era. 

Check out some of the cool kit that comes with Cold War:

Medium Girder Bridge (MGB)


Air Defense and NTC type terrain.


Tracks


Tanks


Chaos  ;D




M901 Improved TOW


M60A2 Patton (Starship).


M577 Command Track


Cluster munitions


BRDM2 ATGM


Obstacle belt


Come on @Michael Dorosh you know you want to get back into scenario design.........  ;D   :)

[Elvis]

Steve also mentioned he was open to Combat Mission Afghanistan CM:A2.  He said BFC doesn't own the content and they're having difficulty getting authorization to do something with it.  Just the fact that Battlefront is attempting to track down the owners and get authorization is exciting news for CMA fans and BF fans in general.  IMO this is another indication of Battlefronts continued interest in the CM2 engine. 

He's spoken about having interest in this a few times now. Truth be told....Back when we were testing the Afghan game I liked it much more than Shock Force. It would be cool to see it get the Upgrade to the most current engine. People still steadily buy it.

[Jarhead0331]

Steve also mentioned he was open to Combat Mission Afghanistan CM:A2.  He said BFC doesn't own the content and they're having difficulty getting authorization to do something with it.  Just the fact that Battlefront is attempting to track down the owners and get authorization is exciting news for CMA fans and BF fans in general.  IMO this is another indication of Battlefronts continued interest in the CM2 engine. 

He's spoken about having interest in this a few times now. Truth be told....Back when we were testing the Afghan game I liked it much more than Shock Force. It would be cool to see it get the Upgrade to the most current engine. People still steadily buy it.

An upgrade would be fantastic. There are not a whole lot of Soviet/Afghan war options out there.

[Elvis]

This is a very good point - we shouldn't expect Steve to announce something in an interview that he hasn't already announced on his own website.

Shouting into the silo of your own fanboys doesn't seem like a great way to generate buzz, but of course, marketing has never been their strong suit.

Put another way - why not expect that?

Unless BFC has decided they're not interested in growing their base - which is very possible at this point. ....

You do not have any understanding of marketing. This post illustrates that. Stay in your lane, bro.

For instance, what is this thread about? That's right. An interview with Steve where he discusses what's going on with Battlefront. Does that sound like "Shouting into the silo of your own fanboys"? No, it doesn't. There was a recent audio interview that he did (I'll see if I can find the link if you missed it). Does that sound like "Shouting into the silo of your own fanboys"? No, it doesn't. A relationship was started not long ago with Slitherine/Martrix to sell the games on both Steam and Martix games. Does that sound like "Shouting into the silo of your own fanboys"? No, it doesn't.

I frequently see posts on this site saying "I didn't know that. I don't go on the Battlefront forums anymore." That is why interviews like this are so helpful. They give the people here, that don't go there and are interested in Combat Mission, a chance to hear about what's going on. In other words, some things are new to them even if they aren't new to you.

Announcing something new on your own platform is "Announcing Things 101" first day of class. The list of reasons that companies do this is long. Everywhere from control of content to not shortchanging your existing base by giving out information to sources other than your own before giving it to them. It's a simple concept.

Like I said, it "Announcing Things 101". 

[Elvis]

If something unexpected like Cold War were to pop up then

You're only making my point for me. Steve is an unreliable narrator. He swears up and down they're not going to do something - until they do.

You're serious about this? You've been grinding your axe a long time with this guy. So, to be a more "reliable narrator" you'd suggest that whatever he says the plan is he should stick to it no matter what. Something changes that presents an opportunity for both his company and his customer base but it should not be acted on because he said that isn't what he planned to do? Seriously?

And, for what it's worth, here is the swearing up and down part that you're referring to:

GH:  ......Will you surprise us and do something completely different?

Steve:   We are stepping away from creating brand new Families (Base Game + Modules + Packs) and instead are committed to having at least one Module for each of our existing 8 Families.  At present that means adding Modules to Black Sea, Final Blitzkrieg, and Cold War.  We are also interested in adding various types of Packs to other Families.

Mhmm.....That is some serious swearing up and down.

Did we expect to put out more content than we have? Sure

We agree, then.

That's where the dishonesty comes in again. Edit out the point of the comment. No unexpected.

The overwhelming number of features in the current engine compared to the original series is a tsunami. 

Depends on how you're using the word "feature."  I mean, if you are pointing to the number of quick battle maps as a feature, there are a ton of them (and good ones), but the original game never had quick battles. They had a pretty good random map generator, something we no longer enjoy, nor the "map tiles" Steve talked up a few years ago, which apparently was one of those dead-ends....

No. Quick Battle Maps are content. Features are how the game works. Both things that the player manually does, (splitting squads into AT Team, scout team as 1 example) and things the player doesn't manually do (spotting as one example). Are there features that the original game has that the current ones don't. Yes, for sure. But there are TONS of features the newer games have that the original doesn't. That is why referring to it as less "feature-rich" is so dishonest. You may care for the features lost more than you care for the features gained. That's your prerogative to favor some things over others. But to refer to it as less "feature-rich" is just factually not true.

It is like each reply you double down on the dishonesty. First the now edited out :

Quote from: Michael Dorosh on August 13, 2021, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on August 12, 2021, 02:08:30 PM

There's still a lot of life left in CM2, so we're not ceasing development on it, but we are keeping our own expectations more modest than we have in the past.[/i][/i][/i]
......we will see in future and he replied by calling development a dead end. (I mean - you quoted it right there.)

Now this. Again, you've been grinding that axe for long time.

[MOS:96B2P]

Combat Mission Cold War with the National Training Center (NTC). An overhead screenshot of Brown Pass with the Goat Trail in the northeast.  Tentative OpFor contact in the west.  Debnam Pass is off map to the southwest. 



Ground level with a platoon of M60A1 Pattons.

[Boggit]

Thanks for all the positive feedback. I'm glad you liked the interview. I have been trying to get Steve to do this for a long time and am glad he finally took the plunge. :bd: