Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]

[W8taminute]

Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.

[ScottWAR]

Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.

  The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?

[JasonPratt]

Which happens to be close to how the Cabal works in my novels, btw: a set of moderately powerful demons, based on various (somewhat conflicting) prophetic insights, agrees to team up with each other tenuously and temporarily in order to fight a much stronger (but much less mobile) demon, with the understanding that once the stronger guy is dealt with they'll go to war with each other around the city the more powerful demon is trapped in. The winner will presumably grow strong enough to deal with any future rivals alone.

(Notably this is not Gamin's plan at all! -- one result being that they snack on him while interrogating him for information about the situation nearby. ;) The heroine and her helpers get in the way of this, partly by having her own conquest agenda -- she's rather opportunistic to start with -- along with some other human villains who have their own conquest agendas. And another even more powerful Roguent who's quietly manipulating events behind the scenes.)

[JasonPratt]

The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?

I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

[Huw the Poo]

I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

Same here.  I forge alliances with whoever it seems suitable to do so, depending entirely on circumstances.  Geek and I are good friends and we quickly allied in our first game, but in the second game we were (and still are) bitter rivals.

[JasonPratt]

Speaking of cliques and alliances (sort of)... ;)

Yskonyn has to go out of town on a two week holiday, and doesn't want to delay our Late Age Dominion of Grog game, so he's looking for someone to take over his position (as LA Caelum) temporarily. It's a small position but relatively stable.

He offered to let me run it, since we're neutral with each other (so far) in that game. If I take it I'll stay neutral with my real faction in the game, and maybe make war on my real allies in the game (if that's how his nation is set up in its own alliances); but obviously I (and he) will benefit from my having access to more information on each side than I otherwise would.

So it would be better if someone not already in DomofGrogs could pick up his position for a couple of weeks. He needs to know by tomorrow though so that as admin he can set the new email registrations.

Anyone interested?

[JasonPratt]

I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

Same here.  I forge alliances with whoever it seems suitable to do so, depending entirely on circumstances.  Geek and I are good friends and we quickly allied in our first game, but in the second game we were (and still are) bitter rivals.

Whereas had things turned out differently I might have allied with Geek in the second game (and still might for all I know -- I'm just not near) or this third game (although not allying with him was more expedient to my character). On the other hand, I was going to go into one of the offsite games allied with him from the beginning, except the game conditions indicated I probably shouldn't join (and would have been strongly against any alliance especially secret ones anyway).

[W8taminute]

Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.

  The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?

It's because cliques love to trample on and spit upon everyone who is not in it.  Once they get their rocks off then they play against each other over the stinking corpses of the outsiders they reveled in eliminating. 

[W8taminute]

I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

I don't know all of you that well but to me it seems that is the case in our game here.  I don't think that there is a group in this game that are looking down at the little people before they duke it out amongst themselves. 

The next game I play however I will make a request that there are no alliances.  Make it cut throat and get to the chase quicker.  In all other strategy games I welcome alliances but the way Dom3 is built, it plays better when everyone is out for themselves.  Just MHO, I could be wrong. 

[Huw the Poo]

No, I do agree with you, W8.  Alliances seem forced in Dominions 3.  I mean, you can't even open your borders to someone.  I will make use of alliances where available, but I certainly wouldn't be averse to playing games in which they're forbidden.

[elitesix]

No, I do agree with you, W8.  Alliances seem forced in Dominions 3.  I mean, you can't even open your borders to someone.  I will make use of alliances where available, but I certainly wouldn't be averse to playing games in which they're forbidden.

The question is, is there a substantial difference between having an overt alliance and "merely" dogpiling someone? Isn't the dogpile a temporary alliance of a sort?

You can't even prevent a dogpile in a no diplomacy game, though it requires the dogpiling players to have good scout info and follow the same analysis that a third player is weaker and should be attacked. Or all it requires is for the would-be dogpiler to examine ongoing 1v1 wars around him and then attack the weaker player.

Inherent in any free for all are alliances. Whether shared alliance victory, or standard rules plus diplomacy, or no diplomacy, they only serve to make it slightly harder to form long term alliances depending on the rules. But ultimately, in any game where you can gain an advantage by teaming up, you're going to have a game where defacto alliances play a large part in determining who is the most powerful.

Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

This is just the sort of game dominions 3 is. Whether you like that or not, is your decision. But I think it's important to realize its an inherent part of the game itself.

[W8taminute]

Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

Excellent words of wisdom that I think I get how they apply in Dom3.  More importantly however, you're right about it working this way in real life. 

[JasonPratt]

Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

For example, if y'all hadn't agreed to join my game, I wouldn't be able to boot everyone and declare myself the winner! :)

(Just because I have the power doesn't mean I'm going to use it that way. But the example seemed apt... ;) )

[JasonPratt]

As we have several people (myself included) who haven't submitted a turn as the deadline approaches, and since it seems unlikely I'm going to be able to get one in until tomorrow afternoon, I'm bumping the gameclock ahead to Monday.

Did I mention I'm going to be gone over the weekend? That, too. ;) (Thus Monday.) But if I can sneak an extra turn in with my next one before Friday, that should allow the game to progress until I get back.

[claes]

Enjoy your weekend, Jason!