Author Topic: DOOM  (Read 75962 times)

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Offline Haerdalas

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #750 on: November 08, 2013, 03:31:41 AM »
A Tarrasque? Unless it has ridiculous gear, I don't think it will help much. Bandar is throwing about 7 or 8 Tarrasques at me right now, and tbh they mainly seem to end up killing him own men. I don't think they would beat a Grendlekin in a 1v1 under any circumstances. 2v1 maybe, 3v1 quite possibly, but not 1v1. 

Offline Wingedflamez

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #751 on: November 08, 2013, 04:44:16 AM »
Like I said Im Curious, It has very specific gear on.  Im not sure what Bandar is equipping with.  On paper mine should have a fighting chance... depending on what gear you have.  Id still like to see it.

It sort of looks like there are 4 people in favor of calling the game.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 04:54:14 AM by Wingedflamez »

Offline Haerdalas

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #752 on: November 08, 2013, 07:10:57 AM »
Hmm. Well, if we do fight, it will be against the greatest of my Grendlekin. Fluffy.

Offline Wingedflamez

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #753 on: November 08, 2013, 07:48:19 AM »
Bring it.   ;D

Offline Bronwell

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #754 on: November 08, 2013, 09:17:02 AM »
Ahhh.. that's a bit of an unfair matchup Haerdalas.  I was theory crafting and figured 2 properly equipped Tarrasques had decent odds to kill your standard Grendelkin assuming you didn't change their gear to poison resistance. If you change gear then other options would work better.

Bandar wasted his tarrasques due to hasty turns. All those troops just got in the way and caused hp rout.  Not to mention his was totally unequipped. Bile from 1 Tarrasque caused 11 damage per turn after 5 rounds.  2 of them would basically cancel your regen and damage would then accumulate from their bites.  Poison clouds would keep Grendelkin regen basically cancelled.  2 str32 AP attacks,  2 str30 with luck v 1 str 48 AP attack & aoe fire with luck and vine shield.  Basically identical HP and regen but nothing cancelling Tarrasque regen.  Between luck and regen Tarrasques will stay full hp.

2 Tarrasques minimum maybe 3.  Set to fire bile 5 turns then attack.  Minimal chaff (10-15) to delay grendel 5 turns, ideally unfrozen/dustwalkers or something with cold/heat aura for fatigue.  Luck charm.  Girdle of might minimum.  2 of those cost 50 gems.  Cheaper than your standard 65 gem Grendelkin (counting forge but not hammers-Grendelkin (40),fire brand(4), vine shield(5), luck amulet(2), ring of regeneration(5), rainbow armor(4), boots of flying(5)).  Lycanthropos amulet and astral serpent are some potential useful additions to the Tarrasques.  I can think of other possible additions, but those could help the Grendelkin as well.

Mage Bane and Aegis are not really a representative fight.  Fluffy can't be everywhere every turn.  Ember and that master axe are also nasty but not in the same league as best weapon best shield in game.  A normal Grendelkin would be more representative if we all attacked you at once.  Fluffy would get special love like Claw of Cocytos.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 10:18:10 AM by Bronwell »

Offline Wingedflamez

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #755 on: November 08, 2013, 10:07:34 AM »
Well, I wouldnt worry too much about hp rout, I was bringing 49 longed horse to the fight originally. 50 morale. hey would have slowed him down.

Offline Bronwell

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #756 on: November 08, 2013, 10:27:38 AM »
Hehe.  In my last game longead horsemen were one of the primary ways I won the game.  I was Sauromatia.  Got Earth Deep Blood Well up and was swimming in Earth gems.  I cast 13+ Hidden in Sand and all my undead priests raised horsemen, along with my black servant prophet all game.  Ability to raise horsemen is a really nice hidden benefit to Sauromatia, and unexpected by most since no undead priests.  Raising them saved me a ton of gems.

Early on they gave me useful chaff, later on, buffed with lots of earth magic they took down many unsuspecting thugs/SC who attacked what looked like weak provinces.  One or two of those priests with them buffed Weapons of Sharpness, Strength of Giants, Marble Warriors,  Legions of Steel, then damage/fatigue spells based on paths.  Those lances really are nasty when buffed and they are nice for disposable chaff.  Those and the Dust Walkers/Warriors and Priests won me that game.  Many Fomorian Kings ended up skewered.

Offline Haerdalas

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #757 on: November 08, 2013, 10:30:18 AM »
Not for long. The Aegis slaughters normal troops.

Yeah, enough Tarrasques could take down my guys fairly quickly, but what you forget is that I have better attack/defense skills than Tarrasques, so I would be hitting him much more often than he hits me. Still, 2v1 is not a situation I want, thus why I have only rarely fought Bandar's army head on so far.

Offline Bronwell

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #758 on: November 08, 2013, 10:46:07 AM »
Att/Defense is misleading, actually roughly same.  4 attacks v 1 attack mean much lower defense.  Your defense is 12 + shield.  Tarrasque attack is 12 and bite is AP meaning shield wouldn't do much.  You get 1 attack per turn and half the time luck would negate.  Luck negates half the Tarrasque attacks, but not the poison per turn, or the -2 defense/attack.  One issue I forgot to mention is that while you would have regen, you would still be taking massive amounts of damage from poison, most of which would regen.  Even with the regen bonus, all that damage would give you decent chances to be afflicted.  The Tarrasques have the same risk, but with only one being hit, only one would get the afflictions, leaving you more vulnerable to hits from the other.  Also, Tarrasques are much less reliant on their equipment so care less for slots lost due to affliction. If they survive, they do have recuperation.

As I said, Aegis is a bad example, best way to deal with that would be mindhunt the hell out of it or Claw of Cocytos/Inferno (even better because takes it out of action so you can't forge a new one)  If all you had was Fluffy, this game would be nowhere near over.  One SC, no matter how good, is easily dealt with at endgame magic.

As for Bandar, his main problem was relying on armies at all, that was counterproductive. Your Grendelkin are DESIGNED to kill armies.  Counterthugs and MindHunting would have been a much more effective, and cheaper alternative.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 11:02:28 AM by Bronwell »

Offline Haerdalas

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #759 on: November 08, 2013, 10:57:04 AM »
True, though I think you will find Mindhunt to be very ineffective. He has 26 magic resistance, the odd are ridiculously in his favour. The blood spells that through him into other dimensions would probably be my worst nightmare though, nothing protects against them, and iirc they have pretty low requirements too...

Offline Bronwell

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #760 on: November 08, 2013, 11:08:47 AM »
Even 26 MR is doable.  I know all the other Grendelkin have 21.  With +5 Magic Pen that is a whopping 30% chance to kill MR 21 per cast. (+3 on chart on pg 5 of manual - despite many manual errors, this chart is correct.  Testing has confirmed that MindHunt tests v MR 13 (victim must beat 13 or die)- the spell treats MH spell as level 0 so Astral 4 casting it gives +2 to standard MR11 test.

End result - 8% chance to kill Fluffy (actually 92% chance for you to succeed on a +8 check) and 30% chance to kill MR 21 (+3 check), assuming full +5 MR pen gear and no more than Astral 4.

12-13 Mindhunts for 24-26 gems seems a small price to pay to kill Fluffy. 6-8 gems to kill each other Grendelkin is likewise a bargain.  That is also the sizable investment in MR penetration items.  Of course you can always try to counter with astral mages, but the more limited you are in how you use your Grendelkin, the less able you would be able to win against the world.  If you couldn't send them all aggressively solo into separate provinces every turn, you could not keep up with a world-wide counterattack.  You wouldn't be able to snowball the same way.

Yeah the Blood 9 spells are ridiculous.  Research requirements are high, but casting requirements are low.  Unfortunately, I am only at Blood-7 and had to focus on other priorities first.  IF you attacked me immediately I would switch to blood and have that in 3 turns.  I will have 850 Research this turn and at least 950-1000 next turn, assuming I can use my mages to research.  If I wasn't attacked and could keep my priorities, I would still have it in 6-8 turns at the latest.  By 8 turns from now I would have hit every research goal I care about, assuming I could focus on research.  Conjuration 9 would start to give me Tarts which Gift of Health would heal.  I am summoning my 4th Arch Devil this turn, leaving only 1 more out there to summon.  With 100+blood income per turn, I could empower a couple of them to cast Banish to Inferno immediately.  I would likely Empower once and give +2-3 Blood in items for a total Blood cost of 115-140 each (in addition to past summon costs of 99 a pop).  If I had to rush, I have 8 blood boosters already, but I would rather keep using them for blood hunting.  I could also spend 150 slaves to summon the Demon Lords, 3/4 of which can cast Banish to Inferno, assuming they are not already taken.

I also forgot that I have a couple of bloodhunting Llamia Queens with Blood and Water already, so they can already cast the Cocytos spell with 2 boosters.  They are obviously a good bit more fragile, but are available the instant I hit Blood 9.

Unfortunately, by the time I could do all that, Grendelkin would have covered the world. ;)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:37:08 PM by Bronwell »

Offline Wingedflamez

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #761 on: November 08, 2013, 05:33:41 PM »
OK well, bring on the Grendlekin Haer.  Lets see what happens.  Id like to bring my 49 riders, but one on one would be more interesting.

Offline gman8181

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #762 on: November 08, 2013, 07:26:35 PM »
Are we still playing or not?

Offline Bronwell

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #763 on: November 08, 2013, 07:57:22 PM »
Im going to post a turn.  Mainly to see my last fort battle and to get my 4th arch devil but i suspect this may be the last turn.

Offline Wingedflamez

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Re: DOOM
« Reply #764 on: November 09, 2013, 06:22:37 AM »
Im going to post my turn as well.

I just checked the score graphs, and while I was behind in research, my dominion in awesome.  makes me wish I had been playing a blood sac nation and gone for dom kill.  Though I'm pretty sure that is hard, and also I don't feel up to dealing with a  blood nation yet.

Also, how much damage can fluffy do per turn, and what is his regen?

Because the way my tarrasque Is geared out, He has 2 attacks a turn, one doing 32 armor piercing, and the second doing 30, plus the poison cloud.  His attack is 17.

But anyway, im posting my turn now, come fight me Grendlekin, I dare you.   :D