What are we reading?

[JasonPratt]

I've seen that secretary all over the History Channel...is she still alive?

"Next week... on Ancient Aliens..."

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Finished A Call for the Dead, now starting The Hobbit, since I only remember the general story from my youth. I want to see the last movie soon, with a fresh memory of the book.

[MetalDog]

I'm not entirely sure it will help you much.  Just kidding.  It's my love/hate with what Peter Jackson did to LotR showing through.

[Staggerwing]

Finished A Call for the Dead, now starting The Hobbit, since I only remember the general story from my youth. I want to see the last movie soon, with a fresh memory of the book.

I'm no Tolkien expert (by a long shot) but wouldn't 'the Silmarillion' also be required reading for the Hobbit movies?

[MetalDog]

The Appendices at the end of 'Return of the King,' hold a lot of the 'off screen,' moments in 'The Hobbit,' that came to be included in the movies.

[BanzaiCat]

I've seen that secretary all over the History Channel...is she still alive?

No, she died in 2002. The bits of her interview used in Downfall were taken from a previous biopic done on Hitler's secretaries, though I can't recall its name nor how long before she died that it was used.

[JasonPratt]

The Appendices at the end of 'Return of the King,' hold a lot of the 'off screen,' moments in 'The Hobbit,' that came to be included in the movies.

True. The Silmaril material would be mostly two whole ages earlier than the Hobbit anyway. And the rights to filming it are tied up in litigation.

I heard that Ian McKellen was hinting that PJ might not be done and might go back to the Middle-Earth well, but if so it won't be Sil material unless those rights get sorted out. (Then again the Hobbit rights looked like they could never be sorted out until finally the sides sat down and said, "Wait, just how stupidly greedy are we? -- we could each be earning a ton of money instead of neither of us earning anything!")

The basic Sil story would be pretty epic, and could still feature Galadriel who was around at the time: Morgoroth, the actual 'Satan' of the ME milieu, comes directly to Middle-Earth to screw people over, and is beaten by the first (and to date only) purely human/elven romantic couple, the parents of Elrond (who is actually half-elven, the only one in ME) and grandparents of Arwen (who is, like, 3/4 elven and 1/4 human, or thereabouts. Aragorn was singing about their story in the marshes before Weathertop in the extended edition of the first movie; and the elven woman Elbereth was Galadriel's daughter.) The Palintirs were made for that fight, too, if I recall correctly...?

Elrond couldn't be in it (except as a baby I guess) but Sauron and some other ancient characters could.


Another possibility would be the first War of the Rings, which would feature a lot more continuity with the LotR cast including the arrival of Gandalf (and the other Istari/Maiar/minor angels). Benedict Cumberbatch could actually play Sauron in that one, heh. ;) How much of that is tied up in Silmaril rights I don't know -- I've forgotten to what extent that story shows up in the Sil at all.

[Martok]

Finished A Call for the Dead, now starting The Hobbit, since I only remember the general story from my youth. I want to see the last movie soon, with a fresh memory of the book.

I'm no Tolkien expert (by a long shot) but wouldn't 'the Silmarillion' also be required reading for the Hobbit movies?

Not required at all, no.  While The Hobbit includes a mention of Gondolin, and 1-2 other references to the First Age, overall The Silmarillion has very little direct connection with the events in The Hobbit. 

I do recommend it for those who've enjoyed Tolkien's other work (especially LotR and The Hobbit), but it need not be read in conjunction with anything else IMO. 

[MetalDog]

The Appendices at the end of 'Return of the King,' hold a lot of the 'off screen,' moments in 'The Hobbit,' that came to be included in the movies.

True. The Silmaril material would be mostly two whole ages earlier than the Hobbit anyway. And the rights to filming it are tied up in litigation.

I heard that Ian McKellen was hinting that PJ might not be done and might go back to the Middle-Earth well, but if so it won't be Sil material unless those rights get sorted out. (Then again the Hobbit rights looked like they could never be sorted out until finally the sides sat down and said, "Wait, just how stupidly greedy are we? -- we could each be earning a ton of money instead of neither of us earning anything!")

The basic Sil story would be pretty epic, and could still feature Galadriel who was around at the time: Morgoroth, the actual 'Satan' of the ME milieu, comes directly to Middle-Earth to screw people over, and is beaten by the first (and to date only) purely human/elven romantic couple, the parents of Elrond (who is actually half-elven, the only one in ME) and grandparents of Arwen (who is, like, 3/4 elven and 1/4 human, or thereabouts. Aragorn was singing about their story in the marshes before Weathertop in the extended edition of the first movie; and the elven woman Elbereth was Galadriel's daughter.) The Palintirs were made for that fight, too, if I recall correctly...?

Elrond couldn't be in it (except as a baby I guess) but Sauron and some other ancient characters could.


Another possibility would be the first War of the Rings, which would feature a lot more continuity with the LotR cast including the arrival of Gandalf (and the other Istari/Maiar/minor angels). Benedict Cumberbatch could actually play Sauron in that one, heh. ;) How much of that is tied up in Silmaril rights I don't know -- I've forgotten to what extent that story shows up in the Sil at all.

Just off the top of my head, Feanor took the liquid light of the Two Trees (which correspond to the sun light and moonlight) and encases them in indestructible crystal.  Morgoth, who was defeated by the Valar, before elves came in to the world, was brought before the Valar again for judgement.  He is released and almost immediately starts causing trouble. 

In league with Ungoliant, the mother of all spiders (and forebear of Shelob), Morgoth and Ungoliant kill the Two Trees and go stright for Feanor's stronghold where they bust in, take the Silmarils and slay the over king of all the elves.  Then they flee back to Middle Earth to the fastness of Thangorodrim, Morgoth's base in the far north of the world.

Feanor then leads a host of elves out of Valinor in pursuit of Morgoth and the Silmarils.  There is kinslaying and hardship before the elves finally make it to Middle Earth and set up kingdoms.  As a result of all the elf on elf violence, the Valar let it be known that they refuse to help the elves in their fight against Morgoth and furthermore, nothing the elves can do will avail them against the Dark Lord.

I could go on for quite some time in that vein, but, suffice it to say, everything, from beginning to end in Tolkien's universe, is connected.  The marriage of Arwen and Aragorn is the final seal of three ages of history after the ring is destroyed.

[GDS_Starfury]

 O:-)

[Toonces]

Man alive you are a nerd MD.   ::)

[MetalDog]

Yuppers.

[BanzaiCat]

But then, Be'Le'he'ma'nor, the Dwarven Banana King, took the Shard of Shortness from the loins of that giant hydra thing in Chapter 3, but only because that nefarious assassin helped, which he was unaware of (of course, the assassin turns out to be Ge'Hary'Merde'Umlaut'Picard, but that's not revealed until Book 2). Because the Shard was ensconced in hydra blood, it made the Dwarven King mad (well, more 'cross') which started the entire Lande War over the continent of Aeisia. Which was of course (nerd snort) a totally silly thing to do, because nobody starts a land war there unless they're mad. But by Book 2 when Sha'La'Ma'La'Ma'Ding'Dong, the Elven courtesan-turned-prostitute-with-a-heart-of-electrum, joined forces with the assassin to uncover the nefarious Sewer Orc scandal (which we all know was covered in a three-part sub-series written by the same author under a pseudonym, which he denies to this day, but we REALLY know what's up there because my friend Norbert, you know, my friend Norbert, he was at the RolePlayCon last year and he totally saw the author there and cornered him in a bathroom and insisted on the truth before he let him leave). Given the crossroads formed by Book 17, when the plot to the whole series really took off, the invasion of the Micropensi Lords from The Nether Regions gave the entire Elven lands of Wha'TT'a'Hug'Rack (which broke off from the main continent of Bort thanks to that cataclysmic wizard cabal in Book 13). If it weren't for that slimey human Tick doing that half-orcish porn thing with the perverted Wizards of the Gspot, he never would have caught the assassin in the act in the background when they were doing that one Orc orgy scene in the common room of that inn, you know, the one where the human Ranger Fella Tio lost his three-handed Sword of Noggin Splitting (+6 I think, but Norbert swears it's only a +5...man alive do we have some late night arguments over THAT when playing Cards Against Humanity and we've had too many Mountain Dews to drink!).

Sigh...good times, good times.

[Staggerwing]

So how many nights w/out sleep is this now?

[JasonPratt]

Hey, wait, I don't get a nerdcall, too!?