Ahsoka

[GDS_Starfury]

what are the specifics of why you dont like the newer stuff?

[W8taminute]

what are the specifics of why you dont like the newer stuff?

Well the specifics I mention might not be fair to condemn all of the new stuff but here goes:

I totally rejected the Star Wars movies episodes 7-9.  They didn't make much sense and they portrayed the male characters as fools as well as trashing all the old characters.  The new characters had nothing to say other than rich people bad and other woke bs.  Actually I never saw 9 nor do I ever plan to.  Resurrecting Palpy then having Rey turn out to be a Palpitine? 

I didn't like the Kenobi series.  They made him out to be such a depressed loser I couldn't bare to watch more than the first 2 episodes.  And what was up with baby Leia running all the missions like she's the main star of the show?

I did like the Mandalorian as well as Book of Fett.  Saw one episode of Anders and thought it was well done. 

But mainly I really got turned off from the movies I guess.  Left such a bad taste in my mouth I gave up.  Although I did like Rogue 1.  That movie had a classic SW vibe to it but was much more dystopian then the originals ever were.

[SirAndrewD]

I totally rejected the Star Wars movies episodes 7-9.  They didn't make much sense and they portrayed the male characters as fools as well as trashing all the old characters.  The new characters had nothing to say other than rich people bad and other woke bs.  Actually I never saw 9 nor do I ever plan to.  Resurrecting Palpy then having Rey turn out to be a Palpitine? 

I didn't like the Kenobi series.  They made him out to be such a depressed loser I couldn't bare to watch more than the first 2 episodes.  And what was up with baby Leia running all the missions like she's the main star of the show?

I've never really understood the rejection of the sequels are woke.  They were no less so in a lot of ways than the originals.  Lucas us a very vocal leftist, and he took a lot from film from Star Wars like Kurosawa and Flash Gordon and Dune.  However, he took a lot of real world politics.  Lucas insisted on a primitive race defeating the Empire in a jungle setting because they were stand ins for the inferior tech socalist revolutionaries that he admired.  Palpatine was originally written as a Nixon Clone.  The main enemies of the prequels were the wealthy industrial concerns.  The Death Star was a stand in for the absurdities of the Military Industrial complex.  He directly inserted quotes from a President he didn't agree with and had the Sith speak them.

If anything the sequels were less overtly political, by a lot, than the original Star Wars films.  Rinzler goes into a lot of this in his excellent making of books that has a lot of recorded behind the scenes conversations in the making of the original films.   Lucas' constant insistence on inserting anti-right political barbs while at the same time being nothing but obsessed with maximizing his own profits drove Lawrence Kasdan nuts when he was on board, especially when the two of them went to war on why the Ewoks were even necessary (They were adorable little Viet Cong).

Outside that, I agree.  The sequels were disjointed, poorly thought out, and were for me...in some cases maybe not woke enough.  It inserted Lucas's allegories and removed all the subtlety. 

They had no plan when they made them and each writer and director involved confirms that.  Disney had some weird idea that the best approach was let each film maker do their own thing.   It became a horrific mess. 

Rise of Skywalker tried to roll back everything The Last Jedi did and it made both movies worthless.  Palpatine was a desperate last gasp to insert something interesting. 

They had a germ of ideas.  Kylo Ren/Ben Solo became a surprisingly good character by the end.  I liked the idea of Rey but not the execution of it.  They tried to "fix" the mess of Luke in Rise of Skywalker but it just seemed like a throwaway fan service retcon with no value. 

Now...Kenobi.  Yep, I heard a lot of people that turned it off by episode 2 because they didn't like how weak Kenobi was. 
 
Force forbid he have some character development.  I mean, watching his order destroyed, having to "kill" his best friend, watching his failure result in the Empire taking the galaxy...yeah, no PTSD there. 

So...we have a show about a broken man who finds himself again, and by the end is a better, stronger version of himself.  It takes time to get there, more than 2 episodes, and oh he gets worse before he gets better.  But that's the point, the journey to see him pick himself back up and become the far more zen, and even more powerful Master that he was in A New Hope.  But, yeah, he's not a macho superman to begin that just let everything bounce off him. 

My ire at this isn't directed mostly at anyone here.  I hate the white noise online and the current hate culture that exists in Media analysis.  Working in media myself, it makes it even more annoying because right now, disliking something for whatever socio-political message the film contains is really what many in media content creation do. 

   

[GDS_Starfury]

you both realize that the animated series are the connective tissue for the live action movies and shows?

[SirAndrewD]

you both realize that the animated series are the connective tissue for the live action movies and shows?

Absolutely.  And I really enjoy all of them, though I'm behind on Bad Batch, need to fix that.

And I also agree that if you haven't seen the animated shows you're losing a lot in the live action, especially now.

[Sir Slash]

The more I hear about Star Wars here, the more confused I am about the whole franchise. And the less likely I am to ever watch it again. I guess the irony here is Lucas who was apparently a dedicated Socialist, began a series that made him a multi-millionaire through Capitalism that he despised? Then saw his creation taken-over by the ultimate money-making machine of all time, Disney. In the real world, the Empire usually wins. 

[GDS_Starfury]

as an observation, capitalism and socialism often live side by side in the modern world.     

[SirAndrewD]

Lucas who was apparently a dedicated Socialist, began a series that made him a multi-millionaire

Lucas is worth around $5 Billion in assets.  It'd be more than that but the $4 Billion Disney paid him for Lucasfilms he donated to charity.

Also super fair to note that Lucas is far more anti-Colonialist than anti-Capitalist. 

[Sir Slash]

I don't know what, 'Anti-Colonialist' is but from your above post I assumed he was more Socialist. I really have no idea what he was trying to message us with his vision(s), but the 3 original movies were great and that's where they should've stopped in my opinion. I did enjoy parts of the animated series toward the middle of the series I guess. I never got past where they resurrected Darth Maul.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

But if he'd have stopped after the original 3, we never would've gotten the two Ewok movies.  Wilford Brimley.....in SPAAACCCEEEE

[W8taminute]

^Haha!  That's too funny.  I'm going to watch Fonzie jump the shark now. 

[Gusington]

After that watch the Star Wars Christmas Special. It hits home, especially in April.

[JasonPratt]

I thought I made it clear that I think all the animated series are good, but I see how my first remark on that could be read as though there was only one good series. (Though I think everyone agrees the main Clone War series got off to a rough start; one of the others, too.) A problem with there being no distinction between singular and plural series in English, alas.

I don't care that much about whether there are 'work' 'woke' things in Star Wars -- and I'm very well aware that Lucas himself was a radical leftist by the standards of his time (cheering for the Viet Cong essentially etc) so this line of advance is not a new thing. I watch and read plenty of things with political slants and worldviews I disagree with but still can enjoy. That's life and art.

I care about writing quality, plotting, characterization, and acting. Aside from Andor, the live-action series (plural!) and the sequel trilogy have not lived up to specs for me; Ahsoka will have to prove to be better -- as Andor did, so I realize that isn't metaphysically impossible, but I have long since stopped daring to assume it anymore. I enjoy the prequel trilogy despite all its problems, but that's the low bar for me so far. I enjoyed TFA and Rogue One despite all their problems, but they barely passed the bar. Relatedly, they're also the last live-action material I bought. (I'll definitely buy Andor once it ever gets released.)

{{Kylo Ren/Ben Solo became a surprisingly good character by the end.  I liked the idea of Rey but not the execution of it.}}

I can agree with that.

My problems with Kenobi were not his PTSD and the attempted character arc per se, except for their execution of that (mostly). Again, it was the plot design, characterizations, general writing incompetence, acting in some cases.

I can't think of a single live-action show so far (since TFA) that I didn't want to like. That includes Solo and the sequel trilogy in principle!

[GDS_Starfury]

Im just wondering if theres any topic slash wont inject his politics into?

[SirAndrewD]

After that watch the Star Wars Christmas Special. It hits home, especially in April.

Um, that's the Star Wars HOLIDAY Special, not Christmas.  That's important, because the Special actually aired before Thanksgiving, not that anyone really remembers the real time event well.          

I don't care that much about whether there are 'work' things in Star Wars -- and I'm very well aware that Lucas himself was a radical leftist by the standards of his time (cheering for the Viet Cong essentially etc)

I don't really either and I think we probably agree more than we disagree.

But, to the point of Lucas being more anti-colonial than anti-capitalist, the important thing to note there is that Lucas was far more an admirer of the Viet-Minh than Viet-Cong.  He was less passionate about the socio-economic struggle of the great powers and more interested in Vietnam's struggle for independence against, both sides Communist and Capitalist over time. 

It's important to note in his mindset, if you're looking at fictional inspiration, that the Battle of Endor was inspired by Dien Bien Phu rather than any of the later events.