FIRE IN THE GROGS -- game complete

[JasonPratt]

TURN THREE -- FIRST COUP (phase 3 of 6)
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As noted, phase 3 of the Coup (the scoring turn) lets the US and then the ARVN (both together since AzTank is playing both) spend ARVN resources in up to four populated areas, total (US gets first pick, since it's largely their money anyway and since doing this helps their score directly), to raise support for Saigon by up to two notches in each of the four areas. (And eliminate Terror markers there first, but Team North hasn't put any yet.) Each notch upward costs, as usual for Team South, three ARVN resources each.

Since AzTank just hauled in almost the maximum resources allowed for ARVN in the game (70 out of 75 max), he has money to burn baby! :D And he by God spends nearly the maximum amount allowable this phase.

In Kon Tum, 6 raising support by two notches. (70-6=64). US score goes up population 1 x 2 (for new active support) = + 2, from 38 to 40.

In Da Nang, same thing. New resources, 64-6=58. New US score 1(pop) x 2(actsup) = + 2, from 40 to 42.

(Note that the "US" player technically has to do this since the ARVN doesn't have military divisions in either city yet.)

In Hue, same thing. New resources, 58-6=52. New US score 2(pop) x 2(ActSup) = + 4, from 42 to 46.

(Technically the ARVN had to make this move because the US has no divisions there yet.)

Saigon is already passively supporting the regime (whoever that is ;) ), so Az only needs to raise them one notch to maximum support. Thus he only spends three ARVN resources, 52-3=49. But Saigon has a population of 6, so this adds another 6 points to the Support total (on top of the 6 points which "Passive Support" was already adding), from 46 to 52.

The US faction has now passed the trigger for a win condition! Fortunately for me, we only check win conditions once during a coup, and that's at the start. (There's an exception for the sixth coup, but this is the first. The US has a lot of capability for arranging a last minute win at the end of the sixth coup, for this reason!)

Now comes the VC's turn to adjust Support. (The NVA doesn't get an opportunity to do this.) I don't have as many resources, only 21 (also coincidentally my current VC score total). But my expenses are cheaper, at only 1 resource usually, including for this action. By that metric, I have close to proportionally the same 'buying power' as the ARVN did, 21x3=63!

As with Team South, I can choose up to four populated areas (no LoCs, and population greater than 0), as long as I have at least one Base or Spec there (active or hidden doesn't matter in this case), and no COIN (Team South) control. As with Team South, I can spend to remove any Terror I've caused (not applicable this time), and then notch support down twice toward Active Opposition.

I don't have any valid city targets, so I choose:

1 notch down to Active Oppose in Kien Giang;
same in Kien Phong;
same in Tay Ninh;
and same in Binh Dinh.

That's -4 resources from my 21 = 17.

Each of those already had Passive Opposition, so they all tick down one notch to Active Opposition. Each of them had 2 Pop, so each adds another 2 to the VC score: 2(Pop) x 4(areas) = 8 + 21 = 29 total VC score.

Now we move to Phase 4, redeployment! The VC are the only faction who aren't forced to redeploy (and also can't) during a coup. The US essentially redeploys twice, but the second time will be special and we'll get to that in Phase 5.

4.1.) All Team South forces are automatically removed from all western border provinces (Laos and Cambodia). Any US and ARVN specs and bases, and any ARVN divisions (whether police or military) are sent to the respective faction Available pools. All US divisions over the border, however, are sent entirely out of play! Fortunately for AzTank, he wasn't caught with US divisions in a different foreign country. ;) But his specs over there go home, for now.

4.2.) Now it's AzTank's turn as the ARVN. (I'll be redeploying the NVA, as necessary, in phase 4.3.)

I went over those rules in my prior post in case AzTank wanted to go ahead and make this decision (since the VC Support operations weren't going to affect his choices here), but I'll repeat them here for convenience.

He doesn't currently have any ARVN Troops (the military divisions, i.e. the yellow cubes) that he must move somewhere this time (perhaps during the next Coup); but...

1.) he may move as many deployed ARVN Troops (the yellow cubes on the map) as he likes to any cities without NVA Control (currently all of them); to Saigon regardless of any other factors; or to any area with a COIN base (currently only Pleiku Province, Saigon having the only other COIN base on the board and already a valid move -- there's an ARVN spec in Quang Nam, not a base);

and

2.) he may move as many deployed ARVN Police divisions (the orange cubes on the map) as he likes to any LoC at all without restriction (those are the roads and the Mekong river branches), and/or to any COIN controlled South Nam area (currently all the cities, plus the provinces listed roughly north to south, west to east, of Quang Nam, Pleiku, Phu Bon, Khanh Hoa, Kien Hoa, and Ba Xuyen.

Here is the currently updated map, Az.







Also, here's the upcoming event next Turn as a reminder, in case that makes any difference:

[JasonPratt]

Note: I feel like an ad/mod should move our thread now to the Digital (or perhaps to the Tabletop) AAR section.  8)

[ArizonaTank]

ARVN will not redeploy any troops

ARVN will only move one police from Qui Nhon to Bhin Dinh and one police from Saigon to Kien Phong

[BanzaiCat]

I gotta wonder, if the Justice League or even the Super Friends, led by Batman (I mean the JLA 1990-era version, possibly) were part of the US faction, they'd be able to bring the NVA to task in no time, boy howdy.

[mirth]

Dr. Manhattan won the Vietnam War for America.

[JasonPratt]

Well, Iron Man and the Avengers couldn't, so factor that into the fan-wars.  >:D

It's culturally interesting that the Marvel Universe is largely a creation of the Vietnam era (and in Stark's case, literally a creation of the Vietnam war -- once upon a time that was true of the Punisher, too); and to a much smaller but still important sense (mostly but not entirely Captain America), a creation of WW2.

Anyway, at the moment the US doesn't even need Aquaman!  They are definitely crushing the win, right out of the gate, thanks to that early LRRP draw. If I can't figure out a way to knock them down sufficiently before next coup (minimum 5 more turns, maximum 12 more), this game will be over: Saigon will have enough support in the South for the US to declare Mission Accomplished and go home, leaving the ARVN to be steamrolled later on their own recognizance. ;)

(An amusing extension to the game from a US win would be for the ARVN to keep playing without them and see how far they can hold on. In real life, the NVA and the VC had been quite beaten and wouldn't have been able to come back for the post-US win without a lot of Soviet help.)

[JasonPratt]

ARVN will only move one police from Qui Nhon to Bhin Dinh and one police from Saigon to Kien Phong

I can understand  wanting to move them there; but neither of those provinces are COIN controlled. (I've double-checked both in the save and in the map shots.) Consequently they aren't among the valid province list either.

For ease of reference, the current valid Police deployment moves are:

1.) Any Line of Communication (road or the Mekong river branches).

2.) Any city (because none of those are NVA controlled -- though you could go to Saigon in any case).

3.) These provinces (because they're COIN controlled and/or have a COIN base): Quang Nam, Pleiku, Phu Bon, Khanh Hoa, Kien Hoa, and Ba Xuyen.


If you haven't chosen by this afternoon when I'm off work, I'll be where I can repost the current board snapshots with special marks to show the valid province moves, in case that helps.  O:-)

[mirth]

Well, Iron Man and the Avengers couldn't, so factor that into the fan-wars.  >:D

It's culturally interesting that the Marvel Universe is largely a creation of the Vietnam era (and in Stark's case, literally a creation of the Vietnam war -- once upon a time that was true of the Punisher, too); and to a much smaller but still important sense (mostly but not entirely Captain America), a creation of WW2.

Anyway, at the moment the US doesn't even need Aquaman!  They are definitely crushing the win, right out of the gate, thanks to that early LRRP draw. If I can't figure out a way to knock them down sufficiently before next coup (minimum 5 more turns, maximum 12 more), this game will be over: Saigon will have enough support in the South for the US to declare Mission Accomplished and go home, leaving the ARVN to be steamrolled later on their own recognizance. ;)

(An amusing extension to the game from a US win would be for the ARVN to keep playing without them and see how far they can hold on. In real life, the NVA and the VC had been quite beaten and wouldn't have been able to come back for the post-US win without a lot of Soviet help.)

Yeah, but what if the Sovs send in Red Guardian? That could be a game changer! I mean does the US counter with Cap? Is that kind of escalation wise? A fascinating strategic question...

[Bison]

[BanzaiCat]

The entire thing is ludicrous, gents. Captain America alone could have turned the tide. Consider that Iron Man team up he did. Even with Iron Man retconned into the next century any one of the Avengers could have pulled apart North Vietnam with their bare, manly fists of justice.

[mirth]

The Mandarin would not have stood idly by while the Avengers pummeled the NVA.

[BanzaiCat]

No, he definitely WOULD have. Remember, Mandarin is Chinese. They've wanted to occupy Vietnam for years. He would have just waited and then swept in. The time it took a few superheroes to conquer North Vietnam would have given him plenty of time to plan a failproof strategy.

Which would probably have led to a Chinese coup (issue 137, March 1967) where Mandarin inserted himself as a new Khan. The Western superheroes would have been drawn in quickly. We're talking World War III here, potentially. The Soviets wouldn't have sat idly by letting Mandarin dominate Asia; they'd have struck in Western Europe quickly.

Who would have held Western Europe? The Black Panther? The Black Cat? Booster Gold? Pfft. All B-teamers at best.

[mirth]

No, not a general war in Europe. If the Mandarin takes control of China, the Sovs would have invaded to put him down. Then you likely have Western superheroes fighthing side-by-side with Commie heroes to end the Mandarin threat. Leads to detente between the super powers.

[BanzaiCat]

You're being way too DC in your view of the universe, mirth. Rocket Red types working with the JLA is the stuff of fantasy and comic books. I'm talking real life here.

[mirth]

Pffft...you would know a real life situation if it bit you in the ass.