Breathalyzer Tests

[Windigo]

There's still a feminist agenda?

absolutely.... except this one is about true power ... not bras and sex and birthcontrol

[son_of_montfort]

Alright guys. Come on. We already have half-naked women posted all over the board. Do we really want to be THAT stereotypical?

Its called the feminist agenda....   wake up...   it really isn't about equality, its about power

As a guy who got passed over a lot recently in my job search for women of equal standing and ability, I can certainly see that argument. But I think that there is still a lot of ground to cover to be called "equal." The glass ceiling still exists.

[Gusington]

It's hard for me to still understand that there is a feminist agenda coming from a family of Ivy League educated, powerful women. What more do they want? I will never make as much money as The Wife...well maybe by the time I retire. But she even got the dogs balls! Come on now.

[Windigo]

Alright guys. Come on. We already have half-naked women posted all over the board. Do we really want to be THAT stereotypical?

Its called the feminist agenda....   wake up...   it really isn't about equality, its about power

As a guy who got passed over a lot recently in my job search for women of equal standing and ability, I can certainly see that argument. But I think that there is still a lot of ground to cover to be called "equal." The glass ceiling still exists.

hmm I sense some sort of apologist here.

Sorry but I absolutely don't buy into the way feminists are trying to achieve equality ....

Much of it is based on ignoring the hard reality of well ... reality

Take Smucks example of women in the armed forces. Allowing a three year hiatus with benefits ignores the fact that that those resources are not going toward providing fighting capacity/capability and worse prevents the loss of capacity from being addressed.

Don't know about you but to me that's a misapplication and perversion of intention of having an armed force.

Just saying.....

[Centurion40]

Don't worry, they'll reduce the standards for females in order for them to measure-up!  ::)

Sumtin ain't be addin up here....

Okay, we are cutting back on the forces...personel cuts....check, understood.

Now we are also going to have deferments for pregnancies and a "career intermission program" for the parents to raise the child for the first three years. They will keep medical and exchange privileges during that time and "pick up" where they left off when they went on the "intermission" ???

Sooooooo in addition to cutting forces, we will retain non operational forces for up to three years and give them full benefits.......someone help me understand this.....

Nope, yer understandin' is right some good!  Welcome to the 21st century democratic egalitarian world!!!  :P

[Centurion40]

Alright guys. Come on. We already have half-naked women posted all over the board. Do we really want to be THAT stereotypical?

Its called the feminist agenda....   wake up...   it really isn't about equality, its about power

As a guy who got passed over a lot recently in my job search for women of equal standing and ability, I can certainly see that argument. But I think that there is still a lot of ground to cover to be called "equal." The glass ceiling still exists.

hmm I sense some sort of apologist here.

Sorry but I absolutely don't buy into the way feminists are trying to achieve equality ....

Much of it is based on ignoring the hard reality of well ... reality

Take Smucks example of women in the armed forces. Allowing a three year hiatus with benefits ignores the fact that that those resources are not going toward providing fighting capacity/capability and worse prevents the loss of capacity from being addressed.

Don't know about you but to me that's a misapplication and perversion of intention of having an armed force.

Just saying.....

Agreed, but it's what a free society has to put up with, as we haven't seemed to figure-out how not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A tyrant could do it, but a parliament or congress seems to lack the ability.

[son_of_montfort]

Windi, this conversation was going into women's capacity to lift heavy objects. I think we crossed the line of argument over special treatment of military maternity leave to something altogether different.

[Windigo]

Windi, this conversation was going into women's capacity to lift heavy objects. I think we crossed the line of argument over special treatment of military maternity leave to something altogether different.

I spent a little more than a year as a volunteer fireman .... there really isn't a job in the station that an in shape 140 pound woman can do well in gear

having said that, I know some women I would never ever piss off by suggesting they shouldn't be able to fight for their country.

#note that in Canada we have maternity/parental benefits available for all employed - which is an offshoot of unemployment insurance

60% of your salary for up to one year, or 6 months for both parents

[Centurion40]

Windi, this conversation was going into women's capacity to lift heavy objects. I think we crossed the line of argument over special treatment of military maternity leave to something altogether different.

I spent a little more than a year as a volunteer fireman .... there really isn't a job in the station that an in shape 140 pound woman can do well in gear

Oh there is one job that she could still do well....  ;)

[son_of_montfort]

Yikes... I'm checking out of this one...

[Toonces]

Okay...so here is the non Smuck-tweet bullets:

The highlights:

• Mandatory Breathalyzer tests for duty sections, and random tests for others, beginning this year.

"We're not telling you not to drink, if you're old enough," Mabus said. "We are telling you that it's important to keep legal, responsible use of alcohol from turning into a problem. ... Sailors who drink excessively or too late the night before and report to duty can place themselves, their shipmates and equipment at risk."

I had this happen to me for the first time last month.  I got selected for a random urinalysis and, before I peed in the bottle I had to take a breathalyzer.  I was like, "Huh?" 

Mabus said the tests will not be used for punitive purposes but to identify sailors in need of training, counseling or treatment.

Don't worry, this won't have any impact on your career at the next Enlisted Retention Board or Officer Promotion Board...really, I mean it!

• Beefed-up sexual assault prevention training, including three 90-minute sessions for every sailor during their "A" school training.

"A sexual assault is an attack on a sailor or Marine, and none of their shipmates should tolerate such an attack," Mabus said. "All allegations will be thoroughly investigated and, where appropriate, prosecuted."


Yeah, sexual harrassment is the big thing.


• More mandatory training for motorcycle riders, and a zero-tolerance stance on drinking and driving. To ensure that officers "set the example of zero tolerance for drinking and driving," Mabus said the Navy is establishing a formal policy that requires "any alcohol-related incident to be properly reviewed prior to an officer's promotion."

Well, I don't really disagree with this.  The word on drinking and driving has been out for a while now.  There's really no excuse to drink and drive, especially in the service.  Every command I've been at in the last 10 years has had some sort of "safe drive" program where you get a card to carry with you that is essentially a voucher for a free cab ride, no questions asked.  The cab driver turns the card into the command and is reimbursed for the drunky's ride.

• Moving from a culture of testing to a culture of physical fitness in an effort to promote year-round fitness, even on smaller ships at sea, and avoiding "cramming" for semi-annual fitness tests.

"Fuel to Fight" will introduce more healthy food options to sailors' diets. And the Navy will take additional steps toward being smoke-free with a new educational campaign, free smoking cessation products or services afloat and ashore to anyone who wants to quit, and, beginning between now and Sept. 30, the end of discounts on smoking products in Navy exchanges and ship's stores.

I was on a big deck, but generally we always had a selection of some sort of fruit and vegetable with meals.  Sometimes you had to be a bit creative.  However, almost always, the "meals" were horribly unhealthy.  I'm on shore duty now and have the luxury of eating what I want, but a typical fast-line meal at the galley here is: cheeseburger AND hot dog (with cheese and chili if desired), and fries (cheese and chili if you want).  That has to be at least 1000 calories if not more.  Add as much coke as you can drink...nobody's forcing you to eat that, but that's not an atypical meal. 

The guys who really suffer from these rules are the submariners.  I finally got on an SSN the other day and however small you think they are, I can assure you they are twice as small as you think.  It's one thing to be on a CVN or Amphib with a killer gym, but I'm not sure how you are supposed to maintain any fitness on a sub.

• Establishment of a new Department of the Navy Diversity Officer.

"We are better warfighters when we have a diversity of ideas, experiences, expertise and backgrounds to fulfill our variety of missions," Mabus said.

In particular, he said he wants to improve the Navy and Marine Corps as places "where more women want to stay and make a career and move on to the top ranks of our officers and our NCOs."

Give me a break.

• To that end, Mabus announced a remarkable initiative: a 12-month operational deferment for uniformed mothers following the birth of a child. The Navy is also introducing a "career intermission program," now in pilot form, that will allow men or women to leave and return to the services after up to three years, without penalty, after taking time off to raise a child or a relative. Service members will be allowed to retain their military health care and exchange and commissary shopping privileges and restart their careers "at exactly the point" where they left off.

This really pisses me off.  What this really means, in translation, is that the rest of the crew will have to work that much harder to fill this manning shortfall.  It's amazing.  When a ship is getting ready to go on deployment, the pregnancy rate on the ship explodes!  I wonder why? 

I remember this one incident on my last ship.  In general, if a woman got pregnant our skipper had her off the ship within 24 hours of being notified.  This was pretty much standard practice.  Well, we lost one of our master helmsmen due to pregnancy, and another got TAD'd to another ship that was in the hurt locker.  So we took this female QM3 and cross-decked her to get master helmsman qual'd, sent her to the schools, etc.  So we're coming up on deployment and lo and behold she gets pregnant!  She goes down to berthing, packs her crap, starts making plans to live with her boyfriend out in town, and our skipper says fuck it, keep her on board.  Oh man, it was priceless.  He kept her on the ship for a couple of months and I admired him so much for taking that chance with his career to make a point. 

I used to have these huge arguments with some of my fellow officers back before I had been on a ship about a woman's right to get pregnant on sea duty.  My friends- ex-surface guys- were of the opinion that women should have NJP for getting pregnant on sea duty.  I thought that was horribly discriminatory.  Having been on a ship now, I can see their point.  I'm not saying I agree with them, but ships are already manned around 80-85% and to lose another 5-10% to pregnancy really kills a ship's readiness, not to mention the time and money the ship spends to train them to a certain specialized NEC.  It sucks.

I don't think making pregnancy more attractive is the right move when we're cutting manning to the bare bones as it is.

Certain shore commands will allow for flexible work hours and "tele-work" for up to two days a week," Mabus said.

I would like to see this for everyone, not just women.

• A web-based credentialing program that will allow sailors to earn civilian certifications and licenses that correspond to their Navy ratings, collateral duties and out-of-rating assignments.

I agree with this.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/03/navy-wellness-initiative-test-alcohol-drugs-030512/

[Smuckatelli]

Toonces,

We're in agreement on everything.....

Something to note, there was a CPO that asked the question about gym size on ships..he was on a DDG that lost its gym to a new sonar. The MCPON towed the line with something along this...I've spent 24 years on subs....there is a lot of exercising that can be done on the deck plates.

Also, I don't think the telework wasn't just for females.

[son_of_montfort]

Interesting write up Toonces, particularly about the pregnancy thing. As I said earlier, isn't this sort of a budget nightmare?

How does this all relate to recruitment numbers? Do you guys think this is a drive to pull in more females and guys wanting or already in the process of having a family?

[Toonces]

They're using every excuse under the sun to thin out the military right now; even O-4 (or E-6) is no longer a guarantee that you can retire with 20 years of service.  Google "Continuation board" or "enlisted retention board".  It's sad.  I don't think this is a recruitment enticement move.

In fact, I can't really find a good reason for this stuff other than...I can't find a good reason actually.  Yes, it's a budget (and readiness) nightmare.

A lot of the good deals in the military are going away, or have gone away.  I don't necessarily disagree with some of it, but when you get used to a certain way of life (I'm over 16 years now), and then they start changing the rules this late in the game, it's disconcerting. 

At Smuck- I'm sure it might (might) be possible to get a good workout on an LA SSN, but, you'd have to be VERY creative.  I'm calling BS.

[Smuckatelli]

At Smuck- I'm sure it might (might) be possible to get a good workout on an LA SSN, but, you'd have to be VERY creative.  I'm calling BS.

So am I but I've never been on one so I couldn't say for sure. Both the Navy & Marine reps flanking the SecNav appeared to be pulling the party line.....heads up & down, not left to right...