Author Topic: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942  (Read 747 times)

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Offline MengJiao

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Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« on: May 07, 2021, 06:34:40 PM »

  Yep, I thought I'd just break all the rules and get out and try to form a line -- defend Rostov, stuff like that.  And if you look at the photo -- well historically the Russians took the whole map (except for the part I helpfully outlined with brownish squares) in the the next 10-20 game turns.  So stopping them short of Rostov would be a win, I think:


Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2021, 05:55:36 AM »

  Yep, I thought I'd just break all the rules and get out and try to form a line -- defend Rostov, stuff like that.  And if you look at the photo -- well historically the Russians took the whole map (except for the part I helpfully outlined with brownish squares) in the the next 10-20 game turns.  So stopping them short of Rostov would be a win, I think:

  Big Questions for Little Saturn -- This is the beginning of the last Russian Turn for Operation Uranus.  After this the Germans have 6 turns (our over two weeks as they did historically between the end of Uranus and the beginning of Little Saturn) to pull something together.  Historically, they left Army Group A (700,000 men -- more absent than if they had been cut off in Stalingrad) on the other side of the Black Sea and messed around with a tasteful and much-studied set of perfect examples of mobile defense rather than actually doing anything about Stalingrad while the Russians went on taking ground all over the place -- crude but effective and not very tasteful apparently.  Anyway -- pulling out of Stalingrad gives the Germans an extra army -- the 6th -- and it also gives the Russians an extra army -- the 2nd Guards army -- pulled out of Big Saturn...so what to do with a not-so-small, no longer quite little Saturn?:

 

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2021, 07:05:33 PM »

  Yep, I thought I'd just break all the rules and get out and try to form a line -- defend Rostov, stuff like that.  And if you look at the photo -- well historically the Russians took the whole map (except for the part I helpfully outlined with brownish squares) in the the next 10-20 game turns.  So stopping them short of Rostov would be a win, I think:

  Big Questions for Little Saturn -- This is the beginning of the last Russian Turn for Operation Uranus.  After this the Germans have 6 turns (our over two weeks as they did historically between the end of Uranus and the beginning of Little Saturn) to pull something together.  Historically, they left Army Group A (700,000 men -- more absent than if they had been cut off in Stalingrad) on the other side of the Black Sea and messed around with a tasteful and much-studied set of perfect examples of mobile defense rather than actually doing anything about Stalingrad while the Russians went on taking ground all over the place -- crude but effective and not very tasteful apparently.  Anyway -- pulling out of Stalingrad gives the Germans an extra army -- the 6th -- and it also gives the Russians an extra army -- the 2nd Guards army -- pulled out of Big Saturn...so what to do with a not-so-small, no longer quite little Saturn?:

  So its Dec 4, 5, 6 in Fall Blau Land and the Russians are just trying to keep up with the retreating Germans.  This all suggests that the real problem post-Uranus was not leaving Stalingrad to be reduced, but leaving Army Group A south of Rostov.  I'm allowing it to trickle in and I think I can hold the Donets which would be about 40% better than the Germans did historically:

 

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 01:08:48 PM »

  Yep, I thought I'd just break all the rules and get out and try to form a line -- defend Rostov, stuff like that.  And if you look at the photo -- well historically the Russians took the whole map (except for the part I helpfully outlined with brownish squares) in the the next 10-20 game turns.  So stopping them short of Rostov would be a win, I think:

  Big Questions for Little Saturn -- This is the beginning of the last Russian Turn for Operation Uranus.  After this the Germans have 6 turns (our over two weeks as they did historically between the end of Uranus and the beginning of Little Saturn) to pull something together.  Historically, they left Army Group A (700,000 men -- more absent than if they had been cut off in Stalingrad) on the other side of the Black Sea and messed around with a tasteful and much-studied set of perfect examples of mobile defense rather than actually doing anything about Stalingrad while the Russians went on taking ground all over the place -- crude but effective and not very tasteful apparently.  Anyway -- pulling out of Stalingrad gives the Germans an extra army -- the 6th -- and it also gives the Russians an extra army -- the 2nd Guards army -- pulled out of Big Saturn...so what to do with a not-so-small, no longer quite little Saturn?:

  So its Dec 4, 5, 6 in Fall Blau Land and the Russians are just trying to keep up with the retreating Germans.  This all suggests that the real problem post-Uranus was not leaving Stalingrad to be reduced, but leaving Army Group A south of Rostov.  I'm allowing it to trickle in and I think I can hold the Donets which would be about 40% better than the Germans did historically:

   It's December 7, 8 ,9 in Fall Blau Land and the Russians are about to take Tatinskaya -- which doesn't matter much at this point since its not an airsupply point for Stalingrad...Historically, of Course, Badanov's 26th Tank Corps took it on Christmas eve, so they are ahead of schedule even without the 2nd Guards Army and no little Saturn:

 

Offline W8taminute

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 01:21:09 PM »
This game looks good.  Beautiful map and units too.

What are your feelings about using plexiglass over paper maps?  Believe it or not I use plexiglass to cover some of my mounted maps even though I don't really need to. 
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Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 02:46:47 PM »
This game looks good.  Beautiful map and units too.

What are your feelings about using plexiglass over paper maps?  Believe it or not I use plexiglass to cover some of my mounted maps even though I don't really need to.

  I used to do it, but these days I'm happy with having things stick better to the paper and not having plexiglass makes minor adjustments quicker and easier.  I also find that it is much
easier to do the lighting for plain paper for photographs than it is to deal with plexiglass.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 02:48:33 PM by MengJiao »

Offline W8taminute

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2021, 09:18:21 AM »
^True and good points. 

I suffer too much OCD to leave my maps on a table without a protective cover.  Either my kids or my cats will damage my precious games if I don't.  LOL!!
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Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2021, 10:32:11 AM »
^True and good points. 

I suffer too much OCD to leave my maps on a table without a protective cover.  Either my kids or my cats will damage my precious games if I don't.  LOL!!

   When I had a cat in the man-cave, I did cover the maps with plexiglass.  The cat now prowls the farm leaving small chunks of animals here and there.  For some reason the kids leave my maps alone.  I think I may have bored them enough with games lately and they would rather avoid such things at least in the man-cave.  They hated Red Winter and can barely stand Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition, though my daughter occasionally makes brief observations like "Who would try to take Moscow in the winter?"  or "I think star-shells are a bad idea."  She does approve of de-gaussing one's metal ships however.  I had no idea she'd even heard of it, but she pulled out an elaborate description of magnetism to silence her little brother on the topic of hotdogs as torpedo analogs.

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Leaving Stalingrad: Nov 22, 1942
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2021, 09:01:55 AM »


  Yep, I thought I'd just break all the rules and get out and try to form a line -- defend Rostov, stuff like that.  And if you look at the photo -- well historically the Russians took the whole map (except for the part I helpfully outlined with brownish squares) in the the next 10-20 game turns.  So stopping them short of Rostov would be a win, I think:


  Big Questions for Little Saturn -- This is the beginning of the last Russian Turn for Operation Uranus.  After this the Germans have 6 turns (our over two weeks as they did historically between the end of Uranus and the beginning of Little Saturn) to pull something together.  Historically, they left Army Group A (700,000 men -- more absent than if they had been cut off in Stalingrad) on the other side of the Black Sea and messed around with a tasteful and much-studied set of perfect examples of mobile defense rather than actually doing anything about Stalingrad while the Russians went on taking ground all over the place -- crude but effective and not very tasteful apparently.  Anyway -- pulling out of Stalingrad gives the Germans an extra army -- the 6th -- and it also gives the Russians an extra army -- the 2nd Guards army -- pulled out of Big Saturn...so what to do with a not-so-small, no longer quite little Saturn?:

  Danger on the Donets!  Fortunately this infantry division held on or they would have bounced the river.  Next turn is Dec 16, 17, 18 and the release of 2nd Guards Army and the Little Saturn replacement offensive, so 48 PZ Corps there had better get things patched up: