Steel Division 1944 (by wargame red dragon devs) in game trailer and unit stream

[Arctic Blast]

GMG has it 17% off


Thanks Barth

I was noticing that as well. Problem is, I don't know if they're providing keys right now or waiting until the release date.

[Rayfer]

GMG has it 17% off


Thanks Barth

I was noticing that as well. Problem is, I don't know if they're providing keys right now or waiting until the release date.

I just checked GMG, it is 17% off, $33.29.  It also said this: Pre-orders for Steel Division: Normandy 44 includes:
Access to the game's Exclusive beta, allowing you to play the game in the weeks leading up to launch.
I would take this to mean you could play it now?

[Arctic Blast]

GMG has it 17% off


Thanks Barth

I was noticing that as well. Problem is, I don't know if they're providing keys right now or waiting until the release date.

I just checked GMG, it is 17% off, $33.29.  It also said this: Pre-orders for Steel Division: Normandy 44 includes:
Access to the game's Exclusive beta, allowing you to play the game in the weeks leading up to launch.
I would take this to mean you could play it now?

I completely missed that on the page.  ;D

Yep, got my key immediately. Game installing while I'm off to work.  :)

[DennisS]

What's the general consensus on this. I'm kind of tempted.

I think it's excellent. More manageable than Wargame for me -- I'm finding I mostly play SD44 on "Normal" speed, something I definitely don't do in Wargame. Obviously not a ton of content currently available in the Beta, but what's there is certainly worth playing, and all of it points to a game that, when fully released next month, could be really extraordinary.

This mirrors my own, initial impressions. Bullet time was invented for me. It is essentially stopped, with 30 seconds of real time for one second of game time to pass.

Good unit mix, and ones that I am more comfortable with. I KNOW what a Panzer IV is...not so sure on modern Swedish armor. This made the Wargame series a little more difficult for me.

[JudgeDredd]

wow - another game I suck at  ;D

Interesting though. Padded out, there's going to be an awful lot of game here I imagine

[DennisS]

Watch a battle replay of a skirmish with fog of war off - you'll see the ai place troops, all the starting pieces he uses and then his moves

How do you view a replay of a battle? I've missed that completely.  ???

Profile>replay

Here you can find replays players uploaded (or upload your own).

http://sd-replays.net/replay-list

Where do you copy these replays to?

[sandman2575]

Good unit mix, and ones that I am more comfortable with. I KNOW what a Panzer IV is...not so sure on modern Swedish armor. This made the Wargame series a little more difficult for me.

LOL I can relate. Still, building decks in Wargame is a good (and surprisingly addictive) way to get well acquainted with what might otherwise be some pretty esoteric equipment. 

[MengJiao]

In one skirmish battle, I received a notification that a Panther had been captured when the crew surrendered. I wonder if in a campaign game, it would have been added to the players OOB.

  That would be cool.  Normandy must have been littered with bicycles at least in the east at first.  Capturing those would give the infantry or escaped tank crews something to do.

[MengJiao]

I've run out with mortars, 25 lbers, and PIAT teams.  (and Spitfires but they just RTB so it's not an issue.)  I just want to know how those crappy little French tanks keep managing to knock out my Churchills.

  The Germans did mount some big guns on Hotchkiss chassis, so some French-looking tanks rigged as sp guns could have 75mm guns or 105mm gun/howitzers on them.
It would be interesting if such things turned up in this game.

[MengJiao]

I look at this one like I do Red Dragon; a competitive/balanced platform with historical flavoring vs a striving to be historical/realistic platform like CM, Graviteam, or Steel Beasts.  It is built to have balanced teams fight each other with somewhat realistic units.

If you question like why a unit is using this or that ammo, if the armor on a Panther V A-late model is undermodeled, or was XXX regiment even in Normandy, then you probably won't enjoy the game.

If you just like fighting with units with somewhat realistic capabilities on equal footing and balanced, this is the game for you.

  Ammo -- except for the occasional discarding sabot I probably don't really care
  Panther armor -- please do undermodel it on the G model if possible
  Was XXX regiment even in Normandy?  -- I can't even remember which regiment of the 4th Inf JD Salinger was in
   8th?  12th?  The other one?

   It seems I might buy this game!  And I hear there are hills of some kind -- any kind -- I don't seem to care much about that either. 

[sandman2575]

In one skirmish battle, I received a notification that a Panther had been captured when the crew surrendered. I wonder if in a campaign game, it would have been added to the players OOB.

  That would be cool.  Normandy must have been littered with bicycles at least in the east at first.  Capturing those would give the infantry or escaped tank crews something to do.

I understand that SD44 is not supposed to be hyper-accurate historically, but feels to me like (if in fact it is operative) the captured equipment idea shouldn't hold for both sides. Obviously the Germans made lots of use of captured US/British/Soviet/Czech/French etc. equipment. But I don't think the Allies ever used captured German equipment in battle, did they? Captured tanks and aircraft were sent for testing and analysis. But the Allies never had need to actually employ German equipment in battle, as far as I know.

[Destraex]

There is no capturable equipment in SD44 that I have seen. You sure the crew were not captured after they bailed out and the game stated your panther was captured. i.e. the crew gets taken off the map.

[Destraex]

Check out the lengths people are going to in order to starcraft the game: This thread has people complaining that German tanks are too effective! lol
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/shermans-vs-panthers.1013307/page-2

"I actually did the math on this last night on tank fights, it was pretty fun! All numbers pertaining to hits to kill are averages, and should not be taken to be deterministic.

So let's step back and get the big picture. First thing to keep in mind is that every 100m you close, you add +1 AP to the shot. The other thing to know is that since the penetration table proceeds as a quartic function in terms of AP-AV, it's a fairly simple function so using 10AP against 5AV is the same as 15AP vs 10AV.

So, going abstract for a bit, divide the main cannon's range by 10, add that to the FAV and the given AP value, and you have a total "Tank Value (TV)." You can do the math yourself, but two tanks of equal TV, regardless of what their other stats look like, will be evenly matched. In this case, the Jumbo and Panther D wind up having equal TVs. At 1000m, both have 0% chance to penetrate. However, if you close to 500m (which is closer to historical tank engagement ranges, BTW), both have AP-AV=4, which corresponds to a 42% penetration chance, or 2.38 hits to kill. They have the same accuracy and ROF, so they're very evenly matched.

That's just comparing even tanks. If you're comparing uneven tanks at the maximum effective range, the weaker tank will take 50 hits to kill (2% penetration), while the stronger tank will take at most 12.5 (8% penetration). If you close the distance, however, the hits to kill converges. As an example: the M4A3(76)W and Jumbo cost the same, but have a difference in TV of 6. At the maximum effective range for the 76 to damage the Jumbo (600m), the 76 will, again, take 50 hits to kill the Jumbo, while the Jumbo will be at 2.38, or 21 times faster, aka the 76 will need 21x numerical superiority (ignoring the effects of morale damage, which will be substantial in such a scenario). If, however, the 76 closes to 300m, the number of hits to kill drops to 3.7, while the Jumbo's drops to 1.2, reducing the ratio to 3:1. There are two practical lessons from this demonstration: even small increases in TV can lead to massively different outcomes, and if you are using a weaker tank close the distance before engaging.

Now, on to cost. If you divide the number of points by TV, you get inverse efficiency (which is slightly more intuitive than efficiency). The average of all open beta tanks at this time is to spend 4.43 points per TV point. The Jumbo and M5A1 are significant outliers, clocking in at 3.64 and 3.75 respectively (the Jumbo is the most effective 'proper' tank - the SDKFZ 250/9 has both an AP and AV value so I put it in, and it spends 2.5 points per TV). The Panthers are also significant outliers: The Panther D at 5.71, the Panther G at 6.51, and the Bef. Panther at 6.36. In other words, the Jumbo is more efficient than the Panther family. Put more practically, you can take 3 Jumbos for 540 points, and 2 Panther Ds for 480. All else being equal, the Jumbos will defeat the Panther Ds dramatically.

However, let's consider Panther Gs vs Jumbos (TV1-TV0=1). If engagement ranges are left at max (800m) and the budget set to 560 points, 3 Jumbos will take 100 average hits (33 hit-volley-equivalents) to take out 2 Panther Gs, while the Panther Gs need 37.5 (18.75). So, advantage Panther Gs. If the Jumbos push to 300m, then they need 3.44 average hits (or 1 hit-volley-equivalent), while the Panther Gs need 4.17 (2). This ignores that Panther Gs have 7 accuracy, while the Jumbos have 5 (I don't know the accuracy tables).

MASSIVE CAVEATS

All else is never equal. For one thing, divisions have different cost incomes (which actually further distorts the Jumbo's advantage). For another, the number of tanks possible to deploy varies wildly - the 3AD can field 6 Jumbos, while the HJ can field 4 Panther Ds, 2 Bef. Panthers, and 18 Panther Gs. For yet another, none of the Jumbos are veteran.

This analysis ignores side shots, morale damage, accuracy, veteran status, leadership, etc. All of which is important.

An important thing to stress from this, however, is that higher TVs are a lot more forgiving. While the 3 Jumbos can close to 300m and defeat the 2 Panther Gs, the onus is on the 3AD player to use smoke and hedgerow hell to close that distance."

[MengJiao]

In one skirmish battle, I received a notification that a Panther had been captured when the crew surrendered. I wonder if in a campaign game, it would have been added to the players OOB.

  That would be cool.  Normandy must have been littered with bicycles at least in the east at first.  Capturing those would give the infantry or escaped tank crews something to do.

I understand that SD44 is not supposed to be hyper-accurate historically, but feels to me like (if in fact it is operative) the captured equipment idea shouldn't hold for both sides. Obviously the Germans made lots of use of captured US/British/Soviet/Czech/French etc. equipment. But I don't think the Allies ever used captured German equipment in battle, did they? Captured tanks and aircraft were sent for testing and analysis. But the Allies never had need to actually employ German equipment in battle, as far as I know.

  The RN had a captured German submarine they used off Norway.  Everyone was fond of German pistols and binoculars.  The Australians used captured Italian tanks and Artillery at Tobruk.  In fact they killed the first commander of 21 Pz with an Italian gun they had bore-sighted on a stretch of highway.
   But no, not systematically, but since the game is not hyper-accurate there's no reason the allies couldn't say capture some German Hotchkiss tanks with 75mm guns on them for example.  Or some bicycles.

[Destraex]

MengJiao I disagree.
In fact Eugen are going to some lengths to ensure that what they have in their divisions is pretty close to what is actually in the real divisions OOB.
They make a few exceptions, like having one German divisions with captured French kit when in fact they were hastily outfitted with German kit to replace the French kit as Normandy happened... but in wargame, they are kept as they were a short time before the landings. That is for flavour but it is close enough and as FAR as Eugen stray from reality in terms of units that turn up as options in divisional decks.

BUT if they did find that some units used captured equipment then they would give it to them. I was fairly common in Russia for Germans to prefer the Russian sub machine gun and not the MP40 for instance. Since the games time frame extends to the capture of Paris ??? perhaps we will see things like captured panthers.