Russia's War Against Ukraine

[JudgeDredd]

We should probably leave that at the front door for two reasons -
1. it's none of anyone's business (in other words, who cares) and
2. it's nothing to do with this thread

I was struggling to understand how Europe could get it's way into this and I never saw this - but I think countries signing defensive pacts is potentially a way. It was the final straw in Hitlers expansionism so it could work here I guess.

NATO doesn't want to get involved - and therefore Europe would be "hobbled" in trying to do anything - so signing defensive pacts by individual nations and showing a stand would be one way for Europe to get the fuck in there without involving NATO.

But - Europe needs to make sure what "getting involved" means. And I'm not sure they have the same understanding as I have.

[GDS_Starfury]

because russia....

[JasonPratt]

I kind of admire that in a way!

Meanwhile, also because Russia, an unused Hind that couldn't fly for decades and which hasn't had security on it for years, is hit by a drone in Moldavia, detonating its freshly filled fuel tank, and footage is caught with its freshly installed security camera.

Russia declares Ukraine just started a war with Moldavia.

Moldavia declares STFU.

The Enforcer traces the story from yesterday:

[Uberhaus]

I think it's a mouldy Mi-8, but I could be wrong the footage is really poor and then it's on fire.  Great source, first I'm hearing of it.  As for the Frankentractor, it would beat pushing the gun.

[W8taminute]

We should probably leave that at the front door for two reasons -
1. it's none of anyone's business (in other words, who cares) and
2. it's nothing to do with this thread

Well said brother, well said. 

Peace be with you and all here.

[Jarhead0331]

Will briefly analyzes the Mi-8 explosion here...

[Jarhead0331]

Lol, well the alt right in America thinks macron being tough on Putin is a front to cover up his wife being a man......lol, I swear you can't make this stuff up. 

Can we please refrain from reposting things that were seen on reddit, as if such things have any significance or meaning? For that matter there should be no reason why anyone needs to post anything referencing the "alt right" or the "far left" or however you want to refer to your ideological boogeymen, unless it has at least some relevance to the tactical or strategic situation.

Thanks. 

[ArizonaTank]

A new war goal for the Kremlin? 

Putin hinted at the need for creating a 'buffer zone' to safeguard Russian regions from potential attacks.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated, "They can only be secured by creating some kind of buffer zone so that any means that the enemy uses to strike us are out of range."

I interpret this to mean vast tracts of formerly Ukrainian land being cleared out as buffer zone.

I guess trying to blame the war on invisible Nazis in the Ukraine was getting old...

Or maybe somehow this ties in with Moldova... 

My sense of Russian history is not that strong...but it seems to me the idea of creating a buffer zone goes back at least a few hundred years.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-s-bold-move-russia-proposes-buffer-zone-to-protect-territory-from-ukraine-amid-raging-war/ar-BB1k5N0N?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=4683c78b945d46e99c5938293f00d427&ei=30

[JasonPratt]

Russia used to be the undisputed masters of the slavic security zone, back during the Tsars (recapitulated in the famous Stalin Line before Stalin ordered its demolition right after Hiter invaded Poland). Those zones ran hundreds of miles deep and played a large part in crippling Russia's industrial (and somewhat their agricultural) development before the revolution after WW1.

Stalin's fortified sectors kiiiinnnnnd of served the same purpose, except they weren't really meant for defense despite being marketed that way; they were meant to serve as safe forming-up and launching points for invasion armies.

Putin might be thinking the same way: create "buffer zones" nominally intended to protect 'his' territory from Ukrainian attacks, despite Ukraine showing they can hit things almost at will as far away as St. Petersburg and the northern Urals (so what's supposed to be the minimum safe distance??) -- but really intended to serve as safe forming-up and launching points to complete his invasion eventually. We know for a fact he was worried about Ukraine itself being used that way by NATO (or that's how he was promoting Ukraine as a threat).

The best case scenario would be a demilitarized zone treated as an actual buffer zone. If he's willing to go Nork that way, the active war phase may be winding up for now.

[MengJiao]

Putin might be thinking the same way: create "buffer zones" nominally intended to protect 'his' territory from Ukrainian attacks, despite Ukraine showing they can hit things almost at will as far away as St. Petersburg and the northern Urals (so what's supposed to be the minimum safe distance??) -- but really intended to serve as safe forming-up and launching points to complete his invasion eventually. We know for a fact he was worried about Ukraine itself being used that way by NATO (or that's how he was promoting Ukraine as a threat).

The best case scenario would be a demilitarized zone treated as an actual buffer zone. If he's willing to go Nork that way, the active war phase may be winding up for now.

  I don't know if this "buffer zone" really makes much sense except from a kind of reverse point of view.  Given that the Russians have never had a clear idea of what they are doing in the Ukraine (as evidenced by their original attack plan of sort of driving all over the place), I read the "buffer zone" plan as another instance of Russia's saying:
"We don't know what we are doing and it is all your fault."

The actual Russian plan seems to be to destroy everything.  However, that makes so little sense that the
Russians can't even admit that to themselves.  Plan B is apparently to say,"We don't know what we are doing and it is all your fault." as often as possible and in as many different ways as possible.

[Jarhead0331]

Putin might be thinking the same way: create "buffer zones" nominally intended to protect 'his' territory from Ukrainian attacks, despite Ukraine showing they can hit things almost at will as far away as St. Petersburg and the northern Urals (so what's supposed to be the minimum safe distance??) -- but really intended to serve as safe forming-up and launching points to complete his invasion eventually. We know for a fact he was worried about Ukraine itself being used that way by NATO (or that's how he was promoting Ukraine as a threat).

The best case scenario would be a demilitarized zone treated as an actual buffer zone. If he's willing to go Nork that way, the active war phase may be winding up for now.

  I don't know if this "buffer zone" really makes much sense except from a kind of reverse point of view.  Given that the Russians have never had a clear idea of what they are doing in the Ukraine (as evidenced by their original attack plan of sort of driving all over the place), I read the "buffer zone" plan as another instance of Russia's saying:
"We don't know what we are doing and it is all your fault."

The actual Russian plan seems to be to destroy everything.  However, that makes so little sense that the
Russians can't even admit that to themselves.  Plan B is apparently to say,"We don't know what we are doing and it is all your fault." as often as possible and in as many different ways as possible.

I'm not sure where your assumptions are coming from, but Russia definitely knows what they are doing and has a plan that does not simply include destroying everything. In reality, Russia now occupies nearly 20% of Ukraine...that's more than 25,000 square miles. All elements of the Russian government are involved in a program that seeks to integrate these newly occupied territories into the Russian Federation.  This is a pervasive system that includes the transformation of laws, introduction of new tax systems, everyday bureaucracy of life, including weddings, death certificates, car registrations, health insurance, pension payments, etc. All of these things are now being provided by the Russian state. This means a complete transformation of the local governance systems and bureaucracies. All schools are now back on Russian language education, and they're all really teaching according to the Russian curriculum, which is a particularly narrow curriculum, including a new Russian history textbook (you can imagine what is being taught within). You actually need a Russian passport to access these government services, so anyone unlucky enough to have been left behind or without means to leave has been forced to adapt to this new way of life.  More than 3,000,000 of these new Russian passports have been issued since the start of the war. If a Ukrainian wants to open a bank account, get access to welfare benefits, etc. he or she needs a Russian passport.

So in other words, whatever Russia may have destroyed behind the MLR, it is now rebuilding in a distinctly Russian way.

[JasonPratt]

That does raise the question of whether Russia would intend those regions to be the "buffer" zones, or how much so.

[GDS_Starfury]

So in other words, whatever Russia may have destroyed behind the MLR, it is now rebuilding in a distinctly Russian way.

yes, following their totally crappy construction codes and job site corruption. 

[ArizonaTank]

That does raise the question of whether Russia would intend those regions to be the "buffer" zones, or how much so.

I don't really believe the Russians will actually try to create these zones. I think its just another mirror show for internal consumption, and the few countries who still believe what Russia says. I guess the real purpose is to provide rhetorical cover to justify future campaigns or strategic negotiating points. What those are...I don't know.   

Maybe the answer is simple. It is probably no longer easy to whip up volunteers over the idea that Russia is in Ukraine to get rid of Nazis. But, if Russia is being attacked by the West, and needs a buffer zone to protect themselves, well that's "something worth fighting for"...;)

[MengJiao]

I'm not sure where your assumptions are coming from, but Russia definitely knows what they are doing and has a plan that does not simply include destroying everything.

So in other words, whatever Russia may have destroyed behind the MLR, it is now rebuilding in a distinctly Russian way.

  So its a two step plan: destroy everything and then make it Russia.  That doesn't really seem to include anything resembling a buffer zone or the starting point for some negotiation with Ukraine.