Russia's War Against Ukraine

[ComradeP]

Edit: I see that whilst typing this, others made some of the same points. My compliments on the discussion, gentlemen, everybody remains sharp.

in an unarmed airplane.

also of note is that Turkey is still sending drones to Ukraine.

Pilot and plane still belong to a nation engaged in conflict with the Russian army.

Turkish companies have been delivering arms to Ukraine for a while now, they can just say those drones are the next batch. Those are not suddenly delivered out of nowhere, like most of the equipment supplied by European countries.

Turkey is trying not to step on anyone's toes with the arms trade and its interpretation of the Montreux Convention regarding the Dardanelles and Bosporus Straits.

Wow, I just heard the former Ukrainian Finance Minister and Zelensky campaign manager asking for different kinds of help. One of the things he emphasized was for the West to set up and publicize a support system for RUSSIAN officers and men who wanted out of the fighting.

Ukraine is offering amnesty and money to Russian soldiers who surrender.

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In other news, it seems Kherson is finally about to fall. The Ukrainian forces in the area have pulled back to Mykolaiv on the Southern Bug river, which is a formidable obstacle in that area.

The Russian forces from the Crimea seem to be making the most noteworthy progress, and progress that will be difficult to contain for the Ukrainian army if Kherson is indeed about to fall as the forces can go west, north or east along either bank of the Dnieper.

[GDS_Starfury]

former Uk president is giving comments with a brand new British MRAP behind him. 

[SirAndrewD]

Thanks!  That's mostly good news!

I dug in a bit on a few other game/hardware companies that are relevant to Grogs interests. 

Virpil is in Belarus, but they made some very ballsy Pro-Ukraine moves, including changing their logo to Ukrainian colors with a yellow peace dove. That's a big move for a not so safe for free speech country as Belarus. 

1C and 1C-777 are Russian (They have a "HQ" in Cyprus for tax purposes) and I haven't seen many statements from them beyond banning the discussion of the war on their forums.

VKB is now headquartered fully in China. 

As for should anyone buy from Russian based or affiliated game companies?  I don't know.  These are small independent developers that may have opinions that run contrary to Putin's, even if they don't feel able to express them. 

Also consider some of these products, like DCS, aren't just the parent company, but also employ and benefit a lot of studios that are outside their scope.

How much will not buying their products help in brining an end to the war?  Not sure if there's a quantifiable answer to that but I'd imagine it's small or none.  Still, there's the argument that everyone that applies a squeeze no matter how small counts,  even if it hurts people who might be on your side. 

It's a hard prospect.  I don't know if there's a clear answer for everyone.

I think at this point everyone should do what they feel is right. 

[Jarhead0331]

I also heard that Ukraine will release Russian POWs to their mothers if they come to Ukraine to get them.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ukraine-says-it-will-free-russian-pows-if-their-mothers-come-to-collect-them/

There is no question that Ukraine is dominating the publicity war. However, Russian advances from Crimea definitely represent the gravest threat to the Ukrainian defense and there is a possibility that it could undermine the entire defense and successes that Ukrainian forces have achieved across all other fronts.

[W8taminute]

...

Ukraine is offering amnesty and money to Russian soldiers who surrender.

...

Absolutely fascinating and I believe unprecedented.  This is just another thing that puzzles me about this invasion. 

[W8taminute]

I also heard that Ukraine will release Russian POWs to their mothers if they come to Ukraine to get them.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ukraine-says-it-will-free-russian-pows-if-their-mothers-come-to-collect-them/

There is no question that Ukraine is dominating the publicity war. However, Russian advances from Crimea definitely represent the gravest threat to the Ukrainian defense and there is a possibility that it could undermine the entire defense and successes that Ukrainian forces have achieved across all other fronts.

Think about it.  If Russia had used it's own soldiers, i.e. ethnic Russians, rather than rely on Chechens and other minorities tricked into fighting this type of thing wouldn't even exist and Kiev would have fallen within the first 24-48 hours. 

I hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't this whole thing sound fishy?

[MengJiao]

Thanks!  That's mostly good news!

I dug in a bit on a few other game/hardware companies that are relevant to Grogs interests. 

Virpil is in Belarus, but they made some very ballsy Pro-Ukraine moves, including changing their logo to Ukrainian colors with a yellow peace dove. That's a big move for a not so safe for free speech country as Belarus. 

1C and 1C-777 are Russian (They have a "HQ" in Cyprus for tax purposes) and I haven't seen many statements from them beyond banning the discussion of the war on their forums.

VKB is now headquartered fully in China. 

As for should anyone buy from Russian based or affiliated game companies?  I don't know.  These are small independent developers that may have opinions that run contrary to Putin's, even if they don't feel able to express them. 

Also consider some of these products, like DCS, aren't just the parent company, but also employ and benefit a lot of studios that are outside their scope.

How much will not buying their products help in brining an end to the war?  Not sure if there's a quantifiable answer to that but I'd imagine it's small or none.  Still, there's the argument that everyone that applies a squeeze no matter how small counts,  even if it hurts people who might be on your side. 

It's a hard prospect.  I don't know if there's a clear answer for everyone.

I think at this point everyone should do what they feel is right.

  Yeah, I wasn't thinking my purchasing would have any impact...its more of a drag on my gaming moods which are generally pursued in a vague spirit of mild amusement and
such mild amusement doesn't cope well with massive ongoing current conflicts at least in my mind where some kind of antiquarian coolness is probably the basic undertone I aim
for.

[GDS_Starfury]

W8, the russians DID use their own russian soldiers.

[steve58]

I also heard that Ukraine will release Russian POWs to their mothers if they come to Ukraine to get them.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ukraine-says-it-will-free-russian-pows-if-their-mothers-come-to-collect-them/

There is no question that Ukraine is dominating the publicity war. However, Russian advances from Crimea definitely represent the gravest threat to the Ukrainian defense and there is a possibility that it could undermine the entire defense and successes that Ukrainian forces have achieved across all other fronts.

Think about it.  If Russia had used it's own soldiers, i.e. ethnic Russians, rather than rely on Chechens and other minorities tricked into fighting this type of thing wouldn't even exist and Kiev would have fallen within the first 24-48 hours. 

I hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't this whole thing sound fishy?

Putin may have his sights on other former SSRs, like Moldova. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/lukashenkos-map-might-have-revealed-russias-strategy-in-ukraine-moldova/ar-AAUuFcF

[GDS_Starfury]

a good cover about where Germany is at right now.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/03/germany-putin-ukraine-invasion/623322/

[ComradeP]

I also heard that Ukraine will release Russian POWs to their mothers if they come to Ukraine to get them.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ukraine-says-it-will-free-russian-pows-if-their-mothers-come-to-collect-them/

There is no question that Ukraine is dominating the publicity war. However, Russian advances from Crimea definitely represent the gravest threat to the Ukrainian defense and there is a possibility that it could undermine the entire defense and successes that Ukrainian forces have achieved across all other fronts.

Think about it.  If Russia had used it's own soldiers, i.e. ethnic Russians, rather than rely on Chechens and other minorities tricked into fighting this type of thing wouldn't even exist and Kiev would have fallen within the first 24-48 hours. 

I hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't this whole thing sound fishy?

Well, we've seen some of this before: the First and Second Chechen War of the 1990's.

First, amateurs attempt to take the capital through a coup-de-main. That fails, badly.

After a few years of reorganization and better preparation, round 2 involves a siege and methodical destruction of the capital to the extent that it is labelled the most destroyed city on earth.

Western opinion seems to be that Putin won't do that to Kiev due to the various (family) ties between the Russians and the Ukrainians resulting from living in one state during the Soviet era, but the question remains: will the troops refuse if Putin asks them to fire away. There are already a number of videos showing rockets with submunitions being used on Kharkov, I'm not so sure any more that Putin won't go the extra mile when it comes to destruction if his "special operation" continues to go badly.

[ComradeP]

I also heard that Ukraine will release Russian POWs to their mothers if they come to Ukraine to get them.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ukraine-says-it-will-free-russian-pows-if-their-mothers-come-to-collect-them/

There is no question that Ukraine is dominating the publicity war. However, Russian advances from Crimea definitely represent the gravest threat to the Ukrainian defense and there is a possibility that it could undermine the entire defense and successes that Ukrainian forces have achieved across all other fronts.

Think about it.  If Russia had used it's own soldiers, i.e. ethnic Russians, rather than rely on Chechens and other minorities tricked into fighting this type of thing wouldn't even exist and Kiev would have fallen within the first 24-48 hours. 

I hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't this whole thing sound fishy?

Putin may have his sights on other former SSRs, like Moldova. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/lukashenkos-map-might-have-revealed-russias-strategy-in-ukraine-moldova/ar-AAUuFcF

It's a possible move, but a complicated one without victory in the Ukraine proper. Russian forces could hold the Black Sea shoreline, but that would only give them a very lengthy frontline to hold if Ukraine itself is not occupied or demilitarized.

At this point, I wouldn't be all that surprised if Putin ends up trying to take over Belarus before the end of this year. He might keep it as a buffer state, but it's pretty clear Lukashenko's no longer calling the shots in his own country since the arrival of Russian forces.

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As a sidenote, you know you've been wargaming too much when you start typing "Soviet" instead of "Russian" and have to correct it a couple of times.

[GDS_Starfury]

no.  no, you dont have to correct anything comrade,  soviet is completely correct.

[Gusington]

^TEEHEE

Putin doesn't have to invade or violently take over Belarus as they are already his lapdog.

Moldova...if Ukraine fell (in pieces or altogether) Moldova would be under extremely serious threat.

[Gusington]

Good article on how Finnish-style military training and preparation could have bolstered Ukrainian defense:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/finlands-model-resisting-russian-aggression/623334/