Russia's War Against Ukraine

[JasonPratt]

Meanwhile, Bill Whittle studies Putin's past career for clues on what to expect strategically going forward:

[Gusington]

I'm going to guess that JH's work address is 24 E. 23rd St in Manhattan.

[GDS_Starfury]

It's also tempting to simplify logistics issues as being due to "mud", but this is not the Ukraine of the early 1940's. There are all-weather roads on every axis of the Russian advance.

there are roads and there are Roads.  not many roads can take the sustained use of modern military equipment.  this isnt West Europe or the US.
and then theres the problem of the Ukrainians having flooded the territory to the north of Kiev.  then add in typical weather in the region.

[SirAndrewD]

Tell that to the Marines.

Well, to the Marines being surrounded just simplifies the problem.

[GDS_Starfury]

You can have the best trained guy in the world but if he doesn't have food, proper clothing and ammo not a lot he can do to be an effective fighting man.

Chosin?  Bastogne?

[ComradeP]

there are roads and there are Roads.  not many roads can take the sustained use of modern military equipment.  this isnt West Europe or the US.
and then theres the problem of the Ukrainians having flooded the territory to the north of Kiev.  then add in typical weather in the region.

A highway doesn't suddenly turn into a muddy field, but I guess some roads might indeed get torn up. The volume of traffic might not be enough for that.

As to flooding north of Kiev: have you seen any other images or articles about that other than the one you posted earlier? That was a picture showing the Dnieper river and an area directly adjacent to it, which on satellite images seems "naturally" swampy during spring thaw.

[GDS_Starfury]

it doesnt turn into a muddy field but it does get broken up and very bumpy pretty quick.  it really depends on the way the road was built.  Ive seen a pretty well constructed asphalt road crumble in the space of a week because of heavy dump truck traffic.  a modern military is a lot heavier then that with a lot more vehicles.

[GDS_Starfury]

as to your second point, googling more info is hampered by Ukrainian flooding, Kiev flooding, military flooding.  they all give back natural disaster articles.
it was reported but news has maybe moved on? 

[Con]

First military equipment is hell on roads. Tracked vehicles are particularly bad.
Second there is a good article I was reading on how the roads under the vehicles that have been burned out are essentially destroyed from the bitumen diesel and heat from burning fires.
Lastly unlike NA/EU there are still much fewer roads leading to fewer options to advance along.

[ArizonaTank]

Have all of Russia's elite units in Ukraine actually been totally destroyed?

My guess is that he is holding back the best troops, and his latest toys (aircraft and armored vehicles) in case he has to fight NATO somewhere.

[ComradeP]

it doesnt turn into a muddy field but it does get broken up and very bumpy pretty quick.  it really depends on the way the road was built.  Ive seen a pretty well constructed asphalt road crumble in the space of a week because of heavy dump truck traffic.  a modern military is a lot heavier then that with a lot more vehicles.

and

First military equipment is hell on roads. Tracked vehicles are particularly bad.
Second there is a good article I was reading on how the roads under the vehicles that have been burned out are essentially destroyed from the bitumen diesel and heat from burning fires.
Lastly unlike NA/EU there are still much fewer roads leading to fewer options to advance along.

I know tracked vehicles are not exactly good for roads, I'm just wondering if the volume of traffic is enough to damage roads to the extent that they disappear in the current Ukrainian mild frost/thaw conditions. Depending on how many units advance along a road, you would have a few dozen tanks and IFV's moving along a specific section of road once. Most of the support vehicles would be wheeled.

During NATO "paper" mobilization trainings in Western Europe, the main limits to road movement were deemed to be bridges and viaducts/overpasses (which is one of the reasons why the conclusion was that the Cold War infrastructure was gone: it was very difficult to plan movement of AFV's), but there are more high quality highways in this part of Europe than in Ukraine.

Incidentally, a big loaded dump truck would be considerably heavier than a BMP.

The ground conditions complicate off-road movement in case of drone/air strikes or artillery fire, which is why we see primarily trucks stuck yards from the nearest road, but I have yet to see footage of asphalted roads pulverized to the extent that they're no longer usable.

[ArizonaTank]

First military equipment is hell on roads. Tracked vehicles are particularly bad.
Second there is a good article I was reading on how the roads under the vehicles that have been burned out are essentially destroyed from the bitumen diesel and heat from burning fires.
Lastly unlike NA/EU there are still much fewer roads leading to fewer options to advance along.

Absolutely... tracked vehicles can quickly chop up asphalt.

The main roads into Kyiv aren't always that great. Thanks to Google street view, we can all see for ourselves.  Below is a typical "main route" into Kyiv from the north.

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7032626,30.3708121,3a,75y,284.81h,83.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMhRgEMVMuedjUA7PF9fiEA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DMhRgEMVMuedjUA7PF9fiEA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D194.69276%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

But some are OK:

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8193369,31.0210176,3a,75y,231.22h,82.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sigHhVOVLeZ7nY0RJqPxrZw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DigHhVOVLeZ7nY0RJqPxrZw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D116.02534%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

[GDS_Starfury]

Incidentally, a big loaded dump truck would be considerably heavier than a BMP.

its not the singular vehicle, its hundreds if not thousands of them.

[GDS_Starfury]

as a side track, I feel like Ive read out all the books for the eras that I like reading about.
this war is going to be a gold mine.

[Gusington]

^I felt guilty for thinking the same thing.