Russia's War Against Ukraine

[JasonPratt]

Of course, some subs might have sneaked out on an emergency escape surge if they happened to have crews ready to go (assuming none were deployed already for whatever reasons)...

[Gusington]

The mind reels at the possibilities, womp rats and all hahaha

[Pete Dero]

It looks these days it is not that hard to locate and target ships like the Moskva.


This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies shows cruiser Moskva in port Sevastopol in Crimea on April 7, 2022.




A satellite image shows guided missile cruiser Moskva at Black Sea, northwest of Sevastopol, Crimea, April 10, 2022. Picture taken by Maxar Technologies.




Is stealth worthless when satellites with such resolution exist ?

[Tripoli]

It looks these days it is not that hard to locate and target ships like the Moskva.


This satellite image provided by Maxar Technologies shows cruiser Moskva in port Sevastopol in Crimea on April 7, 2022.




A satellite image shows guided missile cruiser Moskva at Black Sea, northwest of Sevastopol, Crimea, April 10, 2022. Picture taken by Maxar Technologies.




Is stealth worthless when satellites with such resolution exist ?

Those are good, but for targeting they aren't very useful.  At economical transit, the Mosvka moves 22 km/hr.  With only a delay of one hour, the seeker head of the missile would likely never see it.

[JasonPratt]

Wouldn't that depend on (a) how close the missile was launched (the Moskva was in 'brown water' ops, relatively close to shore); and (b) whether the missile was programmed to lead the target and look where the target was projected to be by arrival?

Edited to add: for comparison, sub launched anti-ship missiles, or ASROC torps, can pretty easily drop onto expected target areas for reasonable search and hit probabilities, even when the ships are moving, and even if the ships are actually 'undersea boats'! (I assume most of us have had that experience playing modern sub sims e.g. Red Storm Rising or Cold Waters.)

[jamus34]

I think the ranges are much more extreme.

I also imagine the target acquisition type plays into things.

I wish we knew the overall distances between the firing site and the ship but I'm willing to bet there were stealth drone assets in the area possibly even lazing the target.

Just a hunch, I could be completely wrong.

[Gusington]

Is there any confirmation yet that the ship was hit by a missle(s)?

[GDS_Starfury]

1.  NATO has had AWACS, JSTARS, EC-135 and Global Hawks all over the entire border area.  the Global Hawk Forte flights specifically have been covering the Black Sea daily.  so knowing where the russian ships are at any given time isnt the problem.
2.  the initial story had a Ukrainian drone messing with the ship off its starboard side while the missiles came in from the port.
not a bad bait and switch if true.
3.  the missiles used are fired from an 8 cell launcher that looks like its based on the S-300/400 chassis.  to me this would indicate that more missiles were fired and only 2 hit.
4. while I enjoyed reading Tripoli's posts Ill point out that this pos ship was a slava class crusier and that it has 8 giant missile tubes on each side of the superstructure.  each of which houses an 11000 pound object full of things that go BOOM.
a solid hit on one could easily cause sympathetic detonations of the rest and I hope thats exactly what happend.

[GDS_Starfury]

TASS just reported the moskva sank while be towed back to port.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=t.co&utm_referrer=t.co

[Gusington]

'sympathetic detonations' 

[MengJiao]

TASS just reported the moskva sank while be towed back to port.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=t.co&utm_referrer=t.co

  Wow.  I guess that says it all.  I guess antiship missiles are pretty lethal.  The exocet  (in the same warhead range as the Neptune) that hit Sheiffield didn't even explode -- the burning fuel was
enough to cause the ship to burn and sink.  Still it is surprising that two relatively small, and subsonic (harpoon-like in fact) missiles were enought to cause Moskava to burn and sink.

  The Neptune/KH-35 missiles were supposed to be cheaper missiles to be used against mid-range targets like destroyers or frigates in the 2000-7000 ton range. Moskava was a lot bigger than that at around 13000 tons. 

[Gusington]

Like Star I also like the 'look at the birdie' trick with the drone on one side, and then smacking the opposite side of the ship with missiles. I really hope that is what happened.

[GDS_Starfury]

  The Neptune/KH-35 missiles were supposed to be cheaper missiles to be used against mid-range targets like destroyers or frigates in the 2000-7000 ton range. Moskava was a lot bigger than that at around 13000 tons.

this is what happens when you keep your main anti-ship missiles on the outside of the hull.

[MengJiao]

  The Neptune/KH-35 missiles were supposed to be cheaper missiles to be used against mid-range targets like destroyers or frigates in the 2000-7000 ton range. Moskava was a lot bigger than that at around 13000 tons.

this is what happens when you keep your main anti-ship missiles on the outside of the hull.

  Those were noted as being intact -- the big missile cannisters.  Indeed, it would have been wise not to have those 16 one-ton warheaded mach 3+ monsters on the ship at all.  What were they ever going to shoot those at?
They'd have to go out in the Med and hope a US carrier wandered into range pretty quick.  The 64 grumble SAMs packed in a small verticle launch thing well aft seems like a more likely site for a  big
ammo fire that would have eaten into the interior of the ship pretty fast.  I still think the Neptunes might be coverage for popping a little infrared -guided Sea Venom off the drone and right down the
packed vertical launch thing.  Who needs hypersonic multiton missiles when a little drone or a few cheap subsonic missiles will finish off your biggest, most heavily defended ship?

[Dammit Carl!]

Not a ship guy, but owing to the general scuttlebutt regarding how little the Army paid attention to equipment upkeep, could it be safe to hazard a guess that the Navy folk were just as bad and the sinking could be boiled down to such things?**

-you know some poor lower enlisted dude is going to be the blame for this

**-is the Russian Navy conscripted as well or on a more "professional, contract," level of manning?