Russia's War Against Ukraine

Started by ArizonaTank, November 26, 2021, 04:54:38 PM

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JudgeDredd

Good video on what NATO does a damn sight better than the Orks

Alba gu' brath

undercovergeek

Is it just me or is Russia been allowed to make the ROE?

They can borrow Chinese tech, NK artillery, Iranian drones but Ukraine isn't allowed to fire on them with someone else's stuff - piss take

nelmsm

Quote from: undercovergeek on June 06, 2024, 04:54:45 PMIs it just me or is Russia been allowed to make the ROE?

They can borrow Chinese tech, NK artillery, Iranian drones but Ukraine isn't allowed to fire on them with someone else's stuff - piss take

Yeah, I don't think the Soviets were upset about arming the North Vietnamese and letting them use those weapons outside of their country.

JudgeDredd

Quote from: undercovergeek on June 06, 2024, 04:54:45 PMIs it just me or is Russia been allowed to make the ROE?

They can borrow Chinese tech, NK artillery, Iranian drones but Ukraine isn't allowed to fire on them with someone else's stuff - piss take
No. It's not just you. They think they can.
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ArizonaTank

Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 06, 2024, 03:50:44 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 06, 2024, 01:08:17 PM...I don't know if other NATO/EU members gave permission...
Britain gave permission over a month ago as I recall. As did France.

Yes they did. The UK has taken the lead quite a few times in NATO response to this war; MBTs, and giving Ukraine free reign with Storm Shadow missiles come immediately to mind.
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FarAway Sooner

The UK has led in terms of setting new precedents for NATO, but it's not done much in terms of contributing material.  They simply haven't had much material to send.  But I've applauded their aggressive stances.

The UK and French have both given permission to use longer-range weapons to hit targets in Russia.  I recall reading that there are some qualifications, but none seem to be strictly geographic (hypothetical example:  "You can blow up military targets in Russia, but no targeting elementary schools in St. Petersburg"). 

By contrast, the US has only given the Ukrainians permission to hit targets in Russia near Kharkiv.  It's not the sort of carte blanche geographic release that other powers have given, but it's made a real difference (especially with the recent provision of additional weapons from the US).  The US has also stated that expansion of targeting zones remains an option.

As for the Russians being able to define the ROE, it's amazing how unfair it is to fight a conventional war when one side has nukes and the other doesn't.  I'm not saying that the US Administration is playing all the right cards here, but THAT is clearly their primary concern.


JudgeDredd

Yeah - I think America has probably done the most in terms of investment and equipment. Probably more than the whole of the EU, I wouldn't be surprised.

I do wish the EU would get it's finger out and get ahead of the game - allowing Ukraine much more fluidity on the field.
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Crossroads

#9878
Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 07, 2024, 02:11:23 PMYeah - I think America has probably done the most in terms of investment and equipment. Probably more than the whole of the EU, I wouldn't be surprised.

I do wish the EU would get it's finger out and get ahead of the game - allowing Ukraine much more fluidity on the field.

I am not sure what stats you are reading, and I am not in disagreement in what you are saying.

First, just so if by EU you mean European Union, it is an institution, it does not have military budget or resources, just euros, which it has been giving out. But in military aid stats it is non-existent. That is for the member countries who have the armies and the military resources. Lot of EU money within EU is going on to member countries in aiding them to get their military hw production lines up again, too. 

Europe as a whole paints a better overall picture of the status. But before going there, and secondly, I quite agree there are those who are not carrying their weigh. Denmark with double the military support than France? That is just embarrassing.

President Macron has been all over the place with his talk, and his walk has not been much. Let us see those Mirage fighters, please. (I also assume they got caught their pants down in realising what total modern war requires in resources, despite of their vast experience in being present in many of the troubled areas of Africa in particular. They are losing out there, too.)

But let us hear it for Germany, who gets a lot of bad press, some deserved, but in many cases undeservedly, we can thank lazy journalism I guess. I mean, look at that very first GDP graphics in the link below, further you move to west, the less interested the governments seem to be in this all. 

Here's a set of various stats on aid on Ukraine

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
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JudgeDredd

No science behind my thoughts - just thoughts.

I guess I was thinking "individually" and not collectively.

Quote from: Crossroads on June 08, 2024, 02:08:36 AMBut let us hear it for Germany, who gets a lot of bad press, some deserved, but in many cases undeservedly, we can thank lazy journalism I guess. I mean, look at that very first GDP graphics in the link below, further you move to west, the less interested the governments seem to be in this all. 
Yeah - funny, that
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Crossroads

Quote from: JudgeDreddYeah - funny, that


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Campaign Series Legion | CS: Vietnam 1948-1967 | CS: Middle East 1948-1985

CS: Vietnam DAR: LZ Albany as NVA (South Vietnam 11/17/65)  
CS: Middle East AARs: High Water Mark (Syria 10/12/73) Me vs Berto | Riptide (Libya 8/6/85) Me vs Berto | The Crossroads (West Bank 6/5/67)  Me vs Berto

Boardgame AARs: AH D-Day | MMP PanzerBlitz2 Carentan | OSS Putin's Northern War | GMT Next War: Poland | LnL Against the Odds DIY

FarAway Sooner

That's a great link you provided, Crossroads, thanks!  It's interesting, because after all the fanfare about the M1s that the US was sending, it turns out we've sent 31 of them.  And the UK sent 14 Challengers.

Meanwhile, other EU countries have sent 84 Leopard 2s (a mix of 2A4 and 2A6s from more than a half-dozen different countries) and another 75 Leopard 1s.  Throw in another 400 T-72s, and you start to realize that there were never going to be enough M1s or Challengers to make much impact, even if the Ukrainians had been able to use modern MBTs the way that NATO hoped they might.

JasonPratt

#9882
Hm. Looks like Russia has started evacuating more military personnel and their families out of Crimea, out of a concern for lack of air defense. The personnel themselves are assigned to AAA.

That concern would be amplified by plans to thin out Crimea's air defense further by emergency shifting of AAA assets to the Belgorod front.

Oh, and Ork 6th Army HQ got zorched last night so, good job there!
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