Scottish Independence

[BanzaiCat]

Naval-wise, Glasgow has quite a shipbuilding port IIRC. Or is that incorrect?

[JudgeDredd]

Yes it does. Glasgow (though not alone in this) has a deep history of great ship building.

It's been run down on and off over the years but investment is happening again. Another reason why Scotland needs control of it's own taxation - to encourage that kind of business back. Ports are strategic assets and need long term plans.

[endfire79]

If it's anything like the 'Quebec Independance' movement, then I can't say I'm fan of seeing a referendum over there for this thing.  It really brings out the worst in people over here.

All I can say is good luck.

PS: if you don't need that British Passport anymore, can we work out a citizenship transfer?  I worked 1/3  of the year in Cornwall last year and before. 8)   

[LongBlade]

NATO - Not automatic - they plan to request entry into NATO as a non nuclear party.

NATO - I do not think it means what you (they) think it means.

[JudgeDredd]

NATO - Not automatic - they plan to request entry into NATO as a non nuclear party.

NATO - I do not think it means what you (they) think it means.

I might be getting things mixed up...I'm reading so much at the moment and with a short term memory problem, I'm not going to be right on more than half the things I've recently learned  :(

[LongBlade]

NATO - Not automatic - they plan to request entry into NATO as a non nuclear party.

NATO - I do not think it means what you (they) think it means.

I might be getting things mixed up...I'm reading so much at the moment and with a short term memory problem, I'm not going to be right on more than half the things I've recently learned  :(

I'm sure you're not mixed up - it's just that the entire point of NATO was to ensure Europe's safety by pledging up to and including nuclear war. By removing the nuclear caveat, they seriously defang the concept. And I'm not even sure if you can join without the full monty.

[JudgeDredd]

oh - I was of the impression there were many NATO countries without nuclear weapons.

Still...what do I know...I'm just a simple jock that would like to see his country do well  :)

[JudgeDredd]

Only 3 of NATO states are Nuclear Weapon states

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

[mirth]

Interesting, I had never really looked into NATO's nuke policy for non-nuclear members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

[Staggerwing]

Interesting, I had never really looked into NATO's nuke policy for non-nuclear members

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

Wow. Luftwaffe Jabos with nukes... That must have made for some very unhappy Russians.

[LongBlade]

Only 3 of NATO states are Nuclear Weapon states

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO

Then I stand corrected :)

[BanzaiCat]

I noted that the referendum for independence is in September this year.

I've read several stories indicating that most Scots think they should remain with the UK, but there's some indications that the independence movement is gaining ground.

Anyone over there in the UK, can you say the mood has changed much in the last half a year or so?

[JudgeDredd]

From what I gather (from friends/family) there has been a slow, creeping rise towards independence. The votes are still with the "Better Together" campaign currently. If the vote was tomorrow, Scotland would remain part of the UK.

The Better Together campaign have ran a shockingly bad campaign from what I've seen. If there's one thing that will get a Jock's back up, it's being lectured to, especially by right wing, toffee nosed public school boys from government and told you can't do something...they'll just dig their heels in. The other thing is some stuck up Tory politician sticking their oar in...shouting something then ducking away. Cameron (the PM), The Chancellor and others seem to pop up in Scotland and shout something then duck back down south.

What they OUGHT to be doing is telling people in Scotland what benefits there will be if Scotland stay. They are not doing that. They're just saying "You won't be able to do this" and "You can't do that" and "You won't make it". Nothing will get a Scot's X in the YES box quicker than those kind of arguments.

I was very much for independence. That was based on my heart - not any of the rubbish falling out of any politicians mouths. I've just always felt Scotland was hanging on to the shirt tails and the success of Great Britain and I've always wanted her to take her place in the world.

I am still for independence...but there is a creeping feeling in me that regrets it would mean the break up of something great. The UK has endured a lot over the years. It's survived a great many things and, in the past, punched above it's weight.

But - I just think Scotland should be it's own nation. Unfortunately, plenty of people here take that as a personal slap. I can't post anything about it on FB...people just get angry about your views. But it's not a snub to the English or the British or Great Britain or being British. It's just a desire to make it on it's own. That's what it's about for me. Everyone has their own thoughts on it.

Part of the bad feeling is created by the media and how it's reporting it.

Any time I have mentioned it, the normal response is "Well, why don't you go and live there". Well, I've lived in England more than I have in Scotland. 16 years in Scotland, 31 in England. I am married to my English rose and I have two fantastic kids, 17 and 13. They are English (though my youngest would slap me for saying that as she's rather taken with her dads passion of being Scottish)...and, most of all, I LOVE where I live. I love England. I love the UK. BUT - I would like the country I am truly in love with to be in control of it's own destiny...not accepting pocket money from Westminster which is how it is perceived in England.

For the record, my family is split. My mum, my youngest sister, my eldest sister and my younger brother all want to remain part of the UK. My other brother and my other sister and myself want independence. I can't vote - I have not been resident in Scotland and nor can my younger sister. But we have a view. It doesn't amount to much - but you can't not have an opinion on it.

I just hope the break, if it happens, is as painless as possible. I'd hate to see people on either side of the debate become enemies because of it.

*edited for spelling*

[BanzaiCat]

The House of Commons does enjoy a good shouting match, doesn't it? I'd watch coverage of their debates long before I ever turn on CSPAN to watch our boring PC politicians BS their way through the latest stupid laws.

[BanzaiCat]

By the way, JD, thanks for the discourse and insight into the politics there. Will be interesting to see if this happens and affects things in a negative way, not the least of which is my company.