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IRL (In Real Life) => Tech Talk => Topic started by: steve58 on December 07, 2019, 05:22:01 PM

Title: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 07, 2019, 05:22:01 PM
The time has come for me to finally start looking to replace my 11 year old PC :'( with something with a little more pep. I see lots of sites that do custom/pre builds like IBUYPOWERPC and CYBERPOWERPC (somewhat familiar with them) and several that I'm not so familiar with. 

Just looking for some feedback from those who have used such sites.  I could probably build my own, but as I get older, find I'm less inclined to go that route. I've always tended to stay with Intel CPUs and nVidia GPUs, but from what I've been reading the differences between Intel/AMD and nVidia/Radeon has gotten lots grayer. 

Thanks for any info you care to share.

p.s. and for those who care, I'm looking for something in the $1000 +/- $100 range.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: airboy on December 08, 2019, 09:42:39 AM
I've bought several Falcon Northwest machines and have never been disappointed.  If you do not play virtual reality or shooter games competitively, then the base Talon machines are excellent.  They are also water cooled and are amazingly quiet.

Others will argue that Falcons are more expensive than building your own - and they are right.  Few, if any, will argue that Falcons work as they should right out of the box and are very reliable.

Jason Pratt has also owned multiple Falcons and has enjoyed them.

I'm not a shooter/flight sim/VR guy - and my Falcons have held up until either the technology changes enough that I want an upgrade or the video card fails.  I usually keep them 6-8 years before replacing.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 08, 2019, 10:39:22 AM
Everything AB said. You get what you pay for, and that's performance with peace of mind. Tech support, on those occasions you need it, is very reliable -- even the guys who just pick up the phone in the office will help with tech support, and know what they're doing!

They are very much what might be called the "trope codifiers" for boutique rigs.

My current rig (a black 70 lb matte-black monolith I call "the Presence") was top-of-the-line back when I got it with an NVidia SLI 680 series (or something like that, a top-line dual-slot card at the time). I eventually had to upgrade to a 1080, near-top-of-line, and haven't had performance problems since. The only thing I've had to replace with some regularity (I think three times in ten years) is the top cooling fan, and that's only because I almost never dust it and it gets out of balance and shoots the bearings.

That being said, I'm unsure there's a price-point around $1000 for a FNW. I paid real money for this thing (and for all my previous Falcons), and that's coming out to around $700 a year so far. But I suck at putting hardware together, and they know how to do that to maximize stability with performance.

I would one thousand percent replace our shop computers (which need replacing someday soon) with (lower-grade) Falcons if I could figure out how to convince for the expense (plus a higher grade one so I can do shop drawings).

A Fragbox starts at just under $2K. They scale up from there. I'll see what options there are for dialing down to $1Kish later...
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Dammit Carl! on December 08, 2019, 12:05:24 PM
Got a Cyberpower rig in late '17 after last deployment.  Think it was on the lowish end at 300-400 dollars. 

Can't complain about it too much - yeah, it aint the beefiest  (i5 quad core at 3.2 ghz, 8 gig ram and no idea about video stuffs) but it offers a huge case that allows for tinkering and upgrades and that's okay by me.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Millipede on December 08, 2019, 12:45:21 PM
Add me to the Airboy and JP pro FalconNW list. I've been buying their machines for 20+ years and I'm on my 5th system now. I've considered building my own from time to time but have always decided that the experienced folks at FalconNW can definitely build a better and more reliable system than I can. They are the folks that started the boutique gaming computer category and there may be newcomers that can build a comparable machine but I wouldn't bet on it. In all the time that I've owned Falcons I've resorted to calling their support folks 4 or 5 times and you may have to wait for a day or so but they will call you back as soon as one of their techs is available and that tech will spend as much time as it takes to solve your problem. They are actual humans that know what they're talking about and they don't dump you off into telephone limbo. The first time I resorted to calling tech support it was eventually determined that I had either a failed HD or the HD cable was bad. The next day (I'm about 200 miles away from FalconNW's home) UPS delivers a new HD and two different cables. FalconNW didn't ask for a deposit or anything, they just asked that I return what I didn't use. It turned out to be one of the cables and I returned the HD and other cable. These are not inexpensive machines but as JP said above... you get what you pay for and I will never own anything else.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 08, 2019, 01:00:18 PM
add me to the build your own crowd...if you have the ability to do so.  only takes a couple of hours, typically cheaper, and you can build to your exact spec....but if your not comfortable, the of course could pre built
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 08, 2019, 01:46:56 PM
Building your own is definitely the most cost-effective way to get performance, no doubt!  O0

Then again, I have a nice desktop-replacement laptop (basically a very portable desktop-comparable with its own built-in screen, can't really use it as a laptop, I always used it mounted on its aluminum suitcase as a heat sink), bought back when Windows XP Service Pack 2 was the new hotness. And it still runs XPSP2 great. (XPSP3 breaks the wireless internet, of course, but that's just SP3.) I still use it occasionally! -- just not on an unsecured line.

Last I checked, Falcon still features that specific laptop on their photo gallery with an amusing explanation that it was so black and shiny it was nearly impossible to photo due to sucking up or reflecting back all the lighting rigs!  :smitten:  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 08, 2019, 01:47:48 PM
Thanks all.  I have checked out FalconNW and find them to be out of my $$ range for what I want. 

CPU - AMD/Intel 3.5+ Ghz
GPU - GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6GB / AMD Radeon RX 580 8GB
RAM - 16 GB
SSD 256/512 GB
HDD 1+TB
PSU 650+W

I can get the above or similar from IBuyPowerPC and CyberPowerPC for ~$1100.  Going to keep shopping around for a bit longer.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 08, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
Hm, Falcon isn't even allowing customers to configure a MachV right now! -- which is very weird. I can understand them saying "No more MachV orders until after the holidays," but not even allowing configurations?  :o

This suggests they're about to launch a new product line to replace the MachV (or redesigning them so radically that they might as well be replaced).

Quote from: steve58 on December 08, 2019, 01:47:48 PM
CPU - AMD/Intel 3.5+ Ghz
GPU - GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6GB / AMD Radeon RX 580 8GB
RAM - 16 GB
SSD 256/512 GB
HDD 1+TB
PSU 650+W

Yeah, I'm not sure they even offer a custom build that far down. Their minimum Fragbox (which is the least expensive I've found this afternoon so far) runs a little over $2K, and has a data drive four times as large and a 4.2Ghz 9th gen processor.

I'll see what else they've got. The Fragbox is still a little more "l33t" than their Talons, so maybe there....
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 08, 2019, 02:10:31 PM
Nope, not in Talons either (or the little Tiki box which is designed like a gaming console). Fragbox is the least you can get in a tower, and it's gonna be $2025 (plus shipping).
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: SirAndrewD on December 08, 2019, 02:44:49 PM
I've had good luck with Cyberpower rigs in the past. 

Trick to them is to make sure you get all name brand parts.  It pushes the price up but it's worth it.  The generic RAM, PSU's and Hard Drives they list as default have a pretty bad reputation. 

Especially the PSU's.  If you get a generic PSU from them you're guaranteed to need to replace it.

Good news is they carry most of the good name brands like Corsair, Thermaltake, WD, Segate and Kingston
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 09, 2019, 12:38:18 PM
I only buy pre-built. Do not have the time, patience or expertise to do a custom build.

I typically buy from Newegg, but picked up my most recent rig from Bestbuy. Their price actually beat out Newegg on the same rig. Go figure...

In any event, over the last 6 years or so, I've had Asus, Acer, Cyberpower, ABS and *gasp* a Dell system, and have been fortunate enough to never have any serious issues. I always bargain shop for these rigs so I understand that sometimes the internals of the bargain pre-built systems can be generic or be lower end components. Still, the significant savings justify what has so far been relatively low risk for me.

With the way technology advances these days, I only have a few years with each rig before I no longer feel they are cutting edge and I start looking for a replacement or upgrade. I view them sort of like a lease on a car. I'm only going to be using them for 3 years or so before I turn it in for a newer model. 
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 09, 2019, 01:22:17 PM
The lease analogy/strategy is reasonable!

What's the current situation with Dell's boutique systems? Originally they were going to compete directly with FNW and peers, and then I lost track of them. Did they just give up and buy Alienware, and market some of that product under the Dell brand?
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 09, 2019, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 09, 2019, 01:22:17 PM
The lease analogy/strategy is reasonable!

What's the current situation with Dell's boutique systems? Originally they were going to compete directly with FNW and peers, and then I lost track of them. Did they just give up and buy Alienware, and market some of that product under the Dell brand?

Not sure...about 2 or 3 years ago I picked up one of their XPS desktops...hey, after all, they say XPS "stands for exceptional build quality, unique materials and powerful features..." It was a 7th generation i7 with 16GB Ram and GeForce 1070, 500GB SSD and 2 TB Sata. My back-up rig crashed and my main ABS system was giving me some problems too, so in a panic I bought this so I wouldn't have to suffer for a day without a gaming rig...heaven forbid! I think I spent under $1200, which at the time was a fairly good deal.

Its all in a very small tower, runs extremely quietly and has served its intended purpose. I'm still running it off of a KVM switch with that stronger ABS system.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Labbug on December 09, 2019, 03:35:34 PM
I have had good luck with Digital Storm.  They have several lines of custom built PC's.  They also have a ready to ship model, the Lynx.  Looking a the Lynx Ultimate for $1579, this includes the following:

Intel Core i7 9700F
NVIDIA 2070 Super 8 GB
16 GB DDR4 Memory
500 GB M.2 SSD
2 TB 7200 RPM Storage
Windows 10 Home
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 10, 2019, 09:41:06 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 09, 2019, 02:35:53 PM
hey, after all, they say XPS "stands for exceptional build quality, unique materials and powerful features..."

.......I... I can't make that come out to "XPS" at all... it starts okay and then... is... is "powerful features" supposed to be in the middle?

Is this some heathen language acronym?


More seriously, I know SOMEONE bought Alienware, but I'm too lazy^H^H^H^Hbusy and in too much of a hurry to get back to work, to look it up.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: ArizonaTank on December 10, 2019, 01:56:00 PM
I used to build my own PCs... I was doing this way back in the early days from the 8088 until about 10 years ago. In all, I built about eight machines. But now I just find no joy in it, so for my last three gaming rigs I have gone the pre-built route.

My current machine is an MSI machine built to support VR. Two years old now, it has worked like a dream under some pretty heavy usage. I purchased brick and mortar from a Fry's Electronics in the SF Bay Area.

Previously I had great experience with two iBuyPower machines. One I bought through COSTCO and had it delivered. The other I bought at the Micro Center in Northern Virginia.

Overall, the pre-built experience has been great, I feel no need to go back to building them myself. The only advice I would offer is if you can buy brick and mortar at a PC specialist store (something like Micro Center or Fry's Electronics) choose that. You can easily get it tweaked with upgrades before you take it home, and returns are easy.   



Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: OJsDad on December 10, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
Micro Center will often have an open box item. Great way to get a little more for same money.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on December 10, 2019, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on December 10, 2019, 02:56:22 PM
Micro Center will often have an open box item. Great way to get a little more for same money.

For that matter, Newegg has open box items too. The problem is, the warranty varies with these items, they sometimes have already been registered with a different user and might be missing components. I've agonized going back and forth over whether to take the chance, but in the end, I decided saving a few hundred just wasn't worth the possible hassle.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Con on December 10, 2019, 03:17:12 PM
I have bought several Alienware machines and overall I find then excellent.  That being said you do pay extra for the name/design.

My history is that no matter what I am always about ~$2K in for the box then add in a coupe of hundred for additionals (bigger HD or SSDs etc).  Peripherals like monitors keyboars etc I recycle from one machine to the next and hand down to the wife for her PhD work when I want to upgrade.

I bought my last alienware about 2 years ago and bought a power upgrade for it since the stock power was causing some fan whine. Two years ago the bit-mining was causing graphic cards to go for insane prices so the delta between a pre-built system like Alienware vs a self build was not as extreme since Dell bulk purchasing power was able to get me the graphics card I wanted at a reasonable price compared to purchasing myself.

I have done some extensive analysis on self builds vs Prebuilds (I have built my own in the past and am comfortable with building and mucking around them).  On average I see about at max a 25% savings between the two with similar specs which is not bad, on my system that would have been around $550 .  However this would have been cut at least in half if not more for the graphics card as per the reason I stated above.  So for me it comes down to time savings, warranty and support.  For a couple of hundred dollars it was a no brainer for me to go pre build.  My time is very limited now and I dont have enough of it to work on building a PC when that aspect of it doesnt really interest me.  Luckily I am in a position where I can afford to do this. 
Con
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 11, 2019, 05:08:58 PM
I feel like I'm getting close to actually ordering a PC.  Still feel like Ibuypower is my best choice for ~$1100.  Here's what I can get for $$1147 (including a case).  Prices/freebies/etc seem to fluctuate day-to-day, so I'm not sure the Christmas season is the best time to buy a new rig, but I'm more than ready.  I tried to stick with name brands I recognized/researched as I hope this rig will last me many years and will be somewhat upgradeable.

AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8GHz Processor
120mm Addressable RGB Liquid Cooling System
16 GB [8 GB X2] DDR4-3000 Memory Module - ADATA XPG D10
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti w/6GB GDDR6
MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS Motherboard -- ARGB Header (2), Gb Lan, USB 3.2 (6 Rear, 4 Front)
650 Watt - Seasonic FOCUS SSR-650FM 80 PLUS Gold, Semi Modular Power Supply
480GB ADATA SU630 SSD -- Read: 520MB/s, Write: 450MB/s - Single Drive
[FREE] 2 TB SEAGATE HARD DRIVE 7200RPM - Today Only
Windows 10 Home - (64-bit)
iBUYPOWER Standard RGB Gaming Keyboard
iBUYPOWER Gaming Optical Mouse - Multi-Color LED Lighting
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 11, 2019, 07:32:47 PM
I think for the money this is doable. Save up for a gfx update first I suppose?

A nicely sculpted gaming mouse can be a good inexpensive update, too. I love my Redragon, most cost-effective thing I've ever bought -- for around $20! They have much more expensive ones, but this had everything I would ever feasibly use, with comfortable operation being paramount. (One slight drawback is that the mousewheel has a rubber coating, which is good for some things but doesn't always provide the more precise movements, and the wheel itself has only like 10 notches. Not a dealbreaker for me, but I do notice sometimes, and being picky and precise I wanted to be fair about even a small drawback.)

I know in the past, Windows Pro was more necessary to run better hardware. My impression is that this is no longer true? -- and so you can get away with the slightly less expensive Home edition now? But since that used to be a thing, I wanted to check about double-checking on that (so to speak).
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: demjansk1942 on December 11, 2019, 08:19:34 PM
I bought mine from Digital Storm ten years ago.  Few upgrades but still going strong and plays every game out there.  Main thing, power supply and a kick butt video card plus good anti virus and malware diligence.  Ssd drives are great.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 12, 2019, 01:18:36 PM
Well I done it.  Trigger pulled. :)   The waiting begins. Delivery probably mid-January. :(   Cost ended up a little over $1200.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: DoctorQuest on December 12, 2019, 02:04:39 PM
Let's us know how you like it. I may save this info for my own future purchase. Sound like a pretty sweet rig to me.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: demjansk1942 on December 12, 2019, 05:35:05 PM
You will have fun with it.  The main thing is that you get to use it and not to worry about saving a few dollars.  All the time spent on saving dollars would be time not using the machine.

Enjoy
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 24, 2019, 09:38:37 AM
I was expecting my new PC sometime after the New Year (even used a DEFER code to get $50 off that pushed shipping in 3-4 weeks), but it has shipped and will be here on Friday. :D  It did seem to move through their process stages rather quickly this week, including the burn in time :-\.  Hope that just means they had extra help for the busy Christmas ordering season.  Looking forward to getting it up and running this weekend.  First game I will be testing will be World of Warships with all settings maxed out :).
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 26, 2019, 05:13:03 PM
My new rig got here a day early.  Showed up around noon.  First takes are that it looks good (component-wise) except for maybe the keyboard and mouse. Time will tell for those.  Its also a little noisier than I expected, but should have realized since it has 4 big fans in the case.  Lots of things to learn and relearn now that I have Windows 10.  Need to get everything back to how I like things.  Currently downloading World of Warships.  Hope to give it a spin before the nights done...

p.s.  in my eagerness to get that puppy out of the box, I ended up dropping it (~42 pounds) about 6 inches onto my left big toe.  Fortunately only my toe got (slightly) damaged :crazy2:
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: Huw the Poo on December 26, 2019, 07:34:11 PM
I bought a fairly beefy rig myself this year and I was also surprised at how noisy it can get.  I guess that's just the norm these days with how powerful they are, unless you go for a water-cooled PC.

Enjoy!  Nothing beats the feeling of being able to just casually set everything to ULTRA every time you play a new game without worrying. O0
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: DoctorQuest on December 26, 2019, 09:17:28 PM
It might be worth going through your BIOS settings to see if there is a variable fan setting to reduce the noise when you are not pushing the rig.

Just a thought.

Have fun. Nothing like playing with a brand new toy.....
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: airboy on December 26, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on December 26, 2019, 09:17:28 PM
It might be worth going through your BIOS settings to see if there is a variable fan setting to reduce the noise when you are not pushing the rig.

Just a thought.

Have fun. Nothing beats playing with a brand new toy.....

Be careful - you don't want to overhead your board or video card.
Title: Re: Prebuilt Gaming PCs?
Post by: steve58 on December 27, 2019, 09:21:28 AM
Quote from: airboy on December 26, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on December 26, 2019, 09:17:28 PM
It might be worth going through your BIOS settings to see if there is a variable fan setting to reduce the noise when you are not pushing the rig.

Just a thought.

Have fun. Nothing beats playing with a brand new toy.....

Be careful - you don't want to overhead your board or video card.

Roger that!  The MSI motherboard came with an app that looks like it can tweak lots of things.  Something to look over in the future.