San Bernadino, Apple and Data Encryption

[mirth]

This is entirely the fault of the San Bernadino County IT Department. They had a tool for allowing remote unlocking of the phone and failed to install it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/common-software-would-have-unlocked-san-bernardino-shooters-iphone/

[Huw the Poo]

Apple does not have a legal leg to stand on.

This is all a big PR stunt by the Apple CEO.

What dreadful cynicism.  I'm the last person in the world who would be defending Apple, but if I were a US citizen I'd be hoping beyond hope that they win this battle.  Whether you think there's an ulterior motive or not, they're absolutely right to say that an incredibly dangerous precedent would be set if the US government win this case.

[mirth]

Ugh. What a mess.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-confirms-shooters-icloud-password-reset-2016-2

[Staggerwing]

Apple does not have a legal leg to stand on.

This is all a big PR stunt by the Apple CEO.

What dreadful cynicism.  I'm the last person in the world who would be defending Apple, but if I were a US citizen I'd be hoping beyond hope that they win this battle.  Whether you think there's an ulterior motive or not, they're absolutely right to say that an incredibly dangerous precedent would be set if the US government win this case.

Keep this in mind- if the FBI gets Apple to create custom hacking software then there is no way that the hacking tools get destroyed afterwards. The FBI could claim that they are now evidence in the case and must be preserved (probably at Quantico) in case they are needed at any future trials resulting from the recovered data. After that, the tools could be examined surreptitiously for ways to hack future iOS releases. Once that happens privacy in any home with an iPhone in it will be an illusion as that iPhone now allows the Gov't (or any foreign hackers who break into the Gov't's computers) to effectively listen in on what ever it is that you are up to. They could pretty much turn it into an eavesdropping device that not only sends them your emails, texts, and pix, but could also actually listen to you while it is lying on your coffee table charging.

Any of you iPhone haters/Android lovers, before you make any comments, be aware that the open nature of Android means that the above possibilities could already be a reality for you.

[airboy]

The courts can order Apple to access the files.  There is no difference between this, a hard disk, paper files or anything else.

If Apple can get into the data, the courts will order them to do so.  This is a mass murder case.  There is an indisputable reason for the US legal system to access all of the murderers records of any type - land line phone, papers, computer files, and phone information.  These precedents were set back in the 1930s.

This does not mean that the courts can order Apple to have a remote hack.  The courts could order Apple to crack the phone and provide a copy of the records of that phone to the legal authorities if that is necessary to protect trade secrets.

You are no more secure in your person, physical papers and what not in the USA than you are with electronic documents.

As I've said before, this is just marketing grandstanding by the Apple CEO.  You can be ordered to jail for failing to cooperate with a murder investigation.  The First Amendment (newspaper writer notes) won't protect you so a corporation doing this for marketing purposes won't protect you.

The argument that the employer should have had an Admin account is also irrelevant and has been litigated before.

[mirth]

Please provide details about how this has been litigated before

[Huw the Poo]

Airboy, no offense but you seem not to have understood this particular case.

[MikeGER]

They could pretty much turn it into an eavesdropping device that not only sends them your emails, texts, and pix, but could also actually listen to you while it is lying on your coffee table charging.

go low tech  O0
my phone is always in a leather sleeve, always!
(the camera is obscured and the microphone is muffled. i tested the acoustics damping and its pretty good)

my tablet which could work as a phone too does not have a sim-card in, and is in a folding protection cover which obscure the little frontside cam, and its lying with the not blocked backside cam with the backside on a surface when not in use

and my usb-webcam for the PC is unplugged when i don't use it.
the microphone jack of the headset (pink marking) too       

     

[Barthheart]

They could pretty much turn it into an eavesdropping device that not only sends them your emails, texts, and pix, but could also actually listen to you while it is lying on your coffee table charging.

go low tech  O0
my phone is always in a leather sleeve, always!
(the camera is obscured and the microphone is muffled. i tested the acoustics damping and its pretty good)

my tablet which could work as a phone too does not have a sim-card in, and is in a folding protection cover which obscure the little frontside cam, and its lying with the not blocked backside cam with the backside on a surface when not in use

and my usb-webcam for the PC is unplugged when i don't use it.
the microphone jack of the headset (pink marking) too       

   

Go lower tech.... I don't own a cel phone.
O0

[bbmike]

^ But you really should upgrade that clay tablet for papyrus.  :P

[Barthheart]

You can take my cuneiform stylus from my cold dead hands. 

[airboy]

My knowledge of this comes from the original set of wiretapping cases from the 1930s and the extensive coverage of this in the Wall St. Journal.

I have been involved in the legal system as an expert and from being sued.  According to the WSJ - Apple cannot win this due to very clear case law.

[Huw the Poo]

Well, who knew?  We have someone with the definitive answer right here on Grogheads!  You should let Apple know, save them a fortune in legal fees. :)

[Barthheart]

My knowledge of this comes from the original set of wiretapping cases from the 1930s and the extensive coverage of this in the Wall St. Journal.

I have been involved in the legal system as an expert and from being sued.  According to the WSJ - Apple cannot win this due to very clear case law.

So you're saying that the courts can force a private company to divert resources from it's business to write code to break it's own encryption?  ???

[bayonetbrant]