Author Topic: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC  (Read 1134 times)

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Offline MengJiao

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Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« on: October 18, 2020, 02:03:50 PM »

  I was puzzling over this battle which is the last one that Lysmachus and Seleucus fought (Lysmachus was killed in the battle and Seleucus was assassinated seven months later).  We know from a fragment of a Babylonian Chronicle that Seleucus had elephants sent forward to his army before the battle and we know that Pyrrus an ally of Lysmachus used elephants against the Romans.  So there were no doubt some elephants involved as was the Shaknu of Uruk Anu-uhballit AKA Nikarchos.  I've included him as Nabznes with the Babylonian troops.  Since he is a 4 in hand-to-hand and otherwise pretty sharp...well, we will see how he does.  Weirdly enough, the battle is featured sort of in C3I 31 so we'll see how their version aligns with mine.  Anyway...here is the left wing of the Seleucid forces:

 

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2020, 03:16:41 PM »

  So there were no doubt some elephants involved as was the Shaknu of Uruk Anu-uhballit AKA Nikarchos. 

  Elephants, yes some.  I've given Seleucus 30 good (green) Indian elephants and 10 very bad (blue) Indian elephants:

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 03:21:22 PM »

  So there were no doubt some elephants involved as was the Shaknu of Uruk Anu-uhballit AKA Nikarchos. 

  Elephants, yes some.  I've given Seleucus 30 good (green) Indian elephants and 10 very bad (blue) Indian elephants:

  While Lysmachus has 15 good (red) Indian elephants and 20 sort of Okay African (purple-ish little forest elephants) since Lysmachus had no well-connected eastern allies at this point since Seleucus held all of Asia more or less and Ptolemy was secretly on Seleucus side (until he had him assassinated):


Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2020, 09:58:57 AM »


   About half an hour into the battle, the cavalry collide.  A little after this, both sides lost leaders in this area.  Not the army commanders, though Seleucus is close to the action and Lysmachus is pretty close with his cavalry reserve:


Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 04:56:10 PM »


   About half an hour into the battle, the cavalry collide.  A little after this, both sides lost leaders in this area.  Not the army commanders, though Seleucus is close to the action and Lysmachus is pretty close with his cavalry reserve:

    I got the C3I that sort of has the official gamey version of this battle.  Naturally it was fought on a featureless plain and the phalanxes are double density and twice as numerous as I had it.  So they have 4 times the phalanx troops as I figured plus a few extra commanders.  So I've brought in reinforcements for both sides getting them up to about 400 rout points each.  They will break at 140 points.  The Lysmachians have better infantry and the Seleucids have more elephants.  Due to some bad accidents with rampaging elephants and some archery, the Lysmachians have lost 25 rout points and the Seleucids 16.  So we'll see.   

    And here are some of the Lysmachid reinforcements (new commanders from C3I 31):

« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 05:41:42 PM by MengJiao »

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 10:27:35 AM »


    I got the C3I that sort of has the official gamey version of this battle.  Naturally it was fought on a featureless plain and the phalanxes are double density and twice as numerous as I had it.  So they have 4 times the phalanx troops as I figured plus a few extra commanders.  So I've brought in reinforcements for both sides getting them up to about 400 rout points each.  They will break at 140 points.  The Lysmachians have better infantry and the Seleucids have more elephants. 

   The Lysmachians were at about 40 rout-points and the Seleucids were at about 30 as the battle moved on toward the stage where both sides start trying to recover from problems while exploiting some successes.  Here we see a leader with zero charisma moving into action.  I only use the radius and the hand-to-hand numbers so his charisma is irrelevant:


Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2020, 05:39:05 PM »


   The Lysmachians were at about 40 rout-points and the Seleucids were at about 30 as the battle moved on toward the stage where both sides start trying to recover from problems while exploiting some successes.  Here we see a leader with zero charisma moving into action.  I only use the radius and the hand-to-hand numbers so his charisma is irrelevant:

   About an hour and a half into the battle and the Seleucid elephants are crashing through the Lysmachid left.  I'm inclined to refight this battle with smaller forces and fewer elephants.  Still, there may be some instructive realism in my reconstruction.  For example, what went wrong that caused Lysmachus to get hit by a javelin?  In this reconstruction, his cavalry does well and he takes the cavalry reserve over to block the elephant attack.  It's not so much the elephants that would endanger him -- its the flood of light troops exploiting the elephantine chaos.  Seleucus in this reconstruction, is busy trying to  put his cavalry back together -- in effect protected by the failure of his first attack on the Lysmachid right.  Another weird possibility that might relate to reality is that Seleucus' commanders are slightly more numerous (many deserted Lysmachus triggering the war) and perhaps slightly more blood-thirsty and or ambitious.  They have won 3 out of 4 hand-to-hand battles due to their slightly higher personal combat numbers.  For now it looks like the Lysmachids (now only 23 points from having their army collapse) are just going to fall apart, though they are doing fine on their right:

« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 06:00:06 AM by MengJiao »

Offline MengJiao

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Re: Corupedium, Late Winter 281 BC
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2020, 04:59:44 PM »

 They have won 3 out of 4 hand-to-hand battles due to their slightly higher personal combat numbers.  For now it looks like the Lysmachids (now only 23 points from having their army collapse) are just going to fall apart, though they are doing fine on their right:

   The Lysmachids did collapse.  But they can fight again!  Lysmachus survived!  As did Seleucus and his eventual assassin Ptolemy "the Thunderbolt"...

   Next time, no elephants.