Sink the Tirpitz!

[MengJiao]

  Events in PQ-17 (my modified version of PQ-13/QP-9) suggested trying to simulate a RN surprise attack in poor visibility on the
Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen with 4 DDs.  In PQ-17 this happened with King George V and Renown and 8 DDs getting 2 major torp hits and some
significant gunfire hits in  a few (less than 10 I would guess) minutes.  In PQ-17 that was mostly the result of bad luck for the KM, but even with
very bad luck, setting up a similar outcome in Command at Sea 4th Ed., might be tricky.

  At first glance, things don't look so promising for the Tirpitz in early 1942.  The best radar in that TF would only detect large targets at around 17 nm at best (according to the tables in Command at Sea anyway), while the radar on KGV could pick up Tirpitz as much as 80 nm away.  Even the radar on RN P-type DDs (representing the L-M DDs in PQ-17) would effectively significantly out-range the radars on Tirpitz.

  In addition the RN has search aircraft and subs in the area.

  So we'll see what happens.

[MengJiao]

  Events in PQ-17 (my modified version of PQ-13/QP-9) suggested trying to simulate a RN surprise attack in poor visibility on the
Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen with 4 DDs.  In PQ-17 this happened with King George V and Renown and 8 DDs getting 2 major torp hits and some
significant gunfire hits in  a few (less than 10 I would guess) minutes.  In PQ-17 that was mostly the result of bad luck for the KM, but even with
very bad luck, setting up a similar outcome in Command at Sea 4th Ed., might be tricky.

  At first glance, things don't look so promising for the Tirpitz in early 1942.  The best radar in that TF would only detect large targets at around 17 nm at best (according to the tables in Command at Sea anyway), while the radar on KGV could pick up Tirpitz as much as 80 nm away.  Even the radar on RN P-type DDs (representing the L-M DDs in PQ-17) would effectively significantly out-range the radars on Tirpitz.

  In addition the RN has search aircraft and subs in the area.

  So we'll see what happens.

I was reading the radar table incorrectly -- apparently in early 1942 neither the RN nor the KM had particularly good surface search radars, so I'm assuming the radars are off until they get a visual sighting and then they are only used for gun ranging.  Form reading about the Battle of Barents Sea, it seems that even in late 1942, guns would end up being targetted by radar ranging on one target while the direction/asmuth was on a different target, leading to the immortal words of one RN DD officer:  "What is Hipper shooting at?"  The answer being range for a tanker and direction for the DD.

Anyway, here's how I'm trying to sink the Tirpitz (ships from Command at Sea, various eds and hexes from Flying Colors giving a 30 degree turn grid and 1000 yds):

[MengJiao]

  Events in PQ-17 (my modified version of PQ-13/QP-9) suggested trying to simulate a RN surprise attack in poor visibility on the
Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen with 4 DDs.  In PQ-17 this happened with King George V and Renown and 8 DDs getting 2 major torp hits and some
significant gunfire hits in  a few (less than 10 I would guess) minutes.  In PQ-17 that was mostly the result of bad luck for the KM, but even with
very bad luck, setting up a similar outcome in Command at Sea 4th Ed., might be tricky.

  At first glance, things don't look so promising for the Tirpitz in early 1942.  The best radar in that TF would only detect large targets at around 17 nm at best (according to the tables in Command at Sea anyway), while the radar on KGV could pick up Tirpitz as much as 80 nm away.  Even the radar on RN P-type DDs (representing the L-M DDs in PQ-17) would effectively significantly out-range the radars on Tirpitz.

  In addition the RN has search aircraft and subs in the area.

  So we'll see what happens.

I was reading the radar table incorrectly -- apparently in early 1942 neither the RN nor the KM had particularly good surface search radars, so I'm assuming the radars are off until they get a visual sighting and then they are only used for gun ranging.  Form reading about the Battle of Barents Sea, it seems that even in late 1942, guns would end up being targetted by radar ranging on one target while the direction/asmuth was on a different target, leading to the immortal words of one RN DD officer:  "What is Hipper shooting at?"  The answer being range for a tanker and direction for the DD.

Anyway, here's how I'm trying to sink the Tirpitz (ships from Command at Sea, various eds and hexes from Flying Colors giving a 30 degree turn grid and 1000 yds):

3 minutes into the run, 4 RN DDS spot and fire on 1 KM DD.  Visibility is 20% (dawn twilight with snow squalls) range is 4 to 7 thousand yards.   It's reaction fire in the Command at Sea world so damage is halved.  Still the KM DD misses and takes two sets of HE hits resulting in 30% overall damage and very bad luck on the critical hits:
Flooding, the engine, AA guns, torps, and a major fire.  A very bad minute for the KM DD.

[TheCommandTent]

Good stuff here.

[MengJiao]

Good stuff here.

Thanks!  9 minutes into the battle, the German DD is 90% damaged and sinking and two RN DDs have
minor damage.  The Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen have turned away though their gun flashes mean they
are now targets for the KGV and the Renown.

The closest 4 RN DDs fire 8 torpedoes each and 32 torps head for the Tirpitz:

[MengJiao]

Good stuff here.

Thanks!  9 minutes into the battle, the German DD is 90% damaged and sinking and two RN DDs have
minor damage.  The Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen have turned away though their gun flashes mean they
are now targets for the KGV and the Renown.

The closest 4 RN DDs fire 8 torpedoes each and 32 torps head for the Tirpitz:

Two torpedoes hit the Tirpitz.  That doesn't even slow her down, though it does knock out her torpedoes and start a fire.  Everybody else misses in the melee
except one RN DD has moderate damage (as shown by the Flying colors hull damage marker):

[MengJiao]

Good stuff here.

Thanks!  9 minutes into the battle, the German DD is 90% damaged and sinking and two RN DDs have
minor damage.  The Tirpitz and Prinz Eugen have turned away though their gun flashes mean they
are now targets for the KGV and the Renown.

The closest 4 RN DDs fire 8 torpedoes each and 32 torps head for the Tirpitz:

Two torpedoes hit the Tirpitz.  That doesn't even slow her down, though it does knock out her torpedoes and start a fire.  Everybody else misses in the melee
except one RN DD has moderate damage (as shown by the Flying colors hull damage marker):

I'd pretty much given up on duplicating the PQ-17 sinking of Tirpitz in Command at Sea terms, when -- much to my surprise -- things suddenly went much worse for the KM.  15 minutes into the battle and critical hits obliterate another KM DD and a torpedo at the extreme end of its run (at 41 knots for 11 thousand yds) hits Tirpitz, dropping her speed to 22 knots and more or less duplicating the PQ-17 results  in the case where the Tirpitz is surprised by 8 DDs backed up by KGV and Renown.

Kind of strange.

[Staggerwing]

No wonder the KM kept the Tirpitz fjorded in RL. They must have had a premonition.

[besilarius]

Great action.
If you would like to try something completely different,   the US Navy tried to be set up for another dash past Iceland.
The three Mississippi class Battleships, with a squadron of destroyers and a number of cruiser, Tuscaloosa and Quincy at least, were moved to Iceland.
The idea was that with three BBs, at least two would always be ready if Tirpitz tried a breakout.  And if the germans tried a major effort with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, they could be matched.  Also, there was at least one squadron of PBY Catalinas with brackets set up to carry two torpedoes.
The british admiral in Iceland at the time was Dalrymple-Hamilton, who had been captain of Rodney during the Bismarck episode.  Reportedly he was both gratified and shocked at the level of support.
He had grave doubts about the Mississippi's catching Tirpitz due to the speed differential.  If the torpedoes of the PBYs did not significantly slow down Tirpitz, the american DDs could be "used up early in the action."

[MengJiao]

No wonder the KM kept the Tirpitz fjorded in RL. They must have had a premonition.

  Yep.  While this scenario is an extreme case, it does suggest the KM was right to be very wary about engaging seemingly equal
targets, partly because the RN was likely to show up with roughly twice as many very aggressive destroyers, not to mention light cruisers.

  In fact, I thought it was unlikely that an RN force without light cruisers could overwhelm the Tirpitz in the world of Command at Sea, but
with poor visibility, I guess it might be possible as this run of a worst case scenario suggests.

[MengJiao]

Great action.
If you would like to try something completely different,   the US Navy tried to be set up for another dash past Iceland.
The three Mississippi class Battleships, with a squadron of destroyers and a number of cruiser, Tuscaloosa and Quincy at least, were moved to Iceland.
The idea was that with three BBs, at least two would always be ready if Tirpitz tried a breakout.  And if the germans tried a major effort with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, they could be matched.  Also, there was at least one squadron of PBY Catalinas with brackets set up to carry two torpedoes.
The british admiral in Iceland at the time was Dalrymple-Hamilton, who had been captain of Rodney during the Bismarck episode.  Reportedly he was both gratified and shocked at the level of support.
He had grave doubts about the Mississippi's catching Tirpitz due to the speed differential.  If the torpedoes of the PBYs did not significantly slow down Tirpitz, the american DDs could be "used up early in the action."

Given how bad the US torpedoes were in 1941-42, I would expect the Tirpitz to get clean away under almost any conditions if attacked only by USN ships and planes.

On the other hand, PQ-17 does have the Washington and some US cruisers for the PQ-17 scenario and I suspect the Washington would have been a very dangerous thing indeed for the Tirpitz to have encountered.  Of course that didn't save PQ-17 so I guess I'll have to do a few runs of PQ-17 to see how that might have worked out.

The PQ-17 game only has the faster BBs though of course the Royal Sovereign and at least one US Cruiser I think were loaned to the Russians later.