IL-2 Sturmovik: Tank Crew - Clash at Prokhorovka

Started by Zulu1966, November 20, 2020, 12:39:43 PM

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Jarhead0331

Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:49:58 PM
Oh, and another helpful peripheral I just added is the Blackhog Explorer.  Can't recommend it enough. 

It's great for both air and armor.  I have it set up so it's how I handle complex engine management on the aircraft, and then when I go to the tank I have alternate assignments so I can do things with it like gunnery fine adjustment  and radio. 

Great device, but fair warning if any of you simmers want to pick one up, make sure you use DHL Express.  My box sat in IPZ Frankfurt for over a month before it finally made its way to the States because they accidently shipped it standard (Nice dudes though, when they realized the mistake they gave me free shipping).

They are nice, but I already have too many button boxes. Not sure where the heck I would mount it.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


SirAndrewD

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 04, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
They are nice, but I already have too many button boxes. Not sure where the heck I would mount it.

That's my increasing problem.  My setup is growing and I'm running out of room to place it all.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

Pete Dero

Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
The part I'm not done with is making some good icons that fit. 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/search/?tags=stream%20deck

DCS users have uploaded their Stream Deck profiles with many ready to use icons included.

If you look around more free icons are to be found e.g. https://visualsbyimpulse.com/store/?product_category=stream-deck-icons  (Free packs of steam deck icons.  To get the packs for free, click on the Add To Card - Free button, and then you need to checkout to get access to the free icons)

SirAndrewD

Quote from: Pete Dero on September 05, 2021, 04:24:26 AM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 04, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
The part I'm not done with is making some good icons that fit. 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/search/?tags=stream%20deck

DCS users have uploaded their Stream Deck profiles with many ready to use icons included.

If you look around more free icons are to be found e.g. https://visualsbyimpulse.com/store/?product_category=stream-deck-icons  (Free packs of steam deck icons.  To get the packs for free, click on the Add To Card - Free button, and then you need to checkout to get access to the free icons)

Oooh yes.  I have pretty much every one of those I downloaded for my Stream Deck. 

Some didn't work out of the box even downloading the plugins.  I'm not the best programmer but I've been working to get them all functional.

I'm less obsessed with using the Stream Deck on DCS as IL2.  With the fully clickable cockpit in the non Flaming Cliffs planes DCS is a lot easier to just have the HOTAS run the show with cockpit mouse interaction. 

With DCS I mostly use the Stream Deck to bind simple, universal aircraft quick binds like landing gear, startup sequence and SOI.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

Jarhead0331

I've also gotten into the habit of using MOBO mice for DCS, et al. They typically come with three interchangeable side plates and one of them has 12 buttons on it. I tend to use them to mimic the function keys on the keyboard, as well as the esc key. Makes life so much easier.

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Jarhead0331

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Gusington

I can almost feel the impact looking at those.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Sir Slash

"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Dammit Carl!

Gotta seriously dip my toes into IL2 tank-time.

Destraex

I also have to get back into this. Been into DCS a little more lately though.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Destraex

#55
What a hilarious time tonight as I drove for an hour in a Panther. Had to hide in trees to avoid a player in an aircraft. Apparently Tanks manned by players are gold to the majority aircraft populations in the il2 servers. He circled for 20 minutes trying to find me. Somebody was waiting for me outside of il2 by then so I drove to the nearest town and got killed by the defences? Or was it that aircraft, hard to tell on that server as they prevent you from knowing.
Then in another server that was a much smaller map, tried the German 20mm flak and shot one down first go, then proceeded to die a lot as 20 Allied players circled 5 axis ones. I ended up burling it down the road missing my engine cover which got shot off and bleeding heavily. Late was aircraft like tempests vs mid war light flak. Hard case man. Hard.
I will basically need the cover of an entire squadron when in a tank. OR 10 players in 20mm light flak half tracks HAHA!









"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Dammit Carl!

Quote from: Destraex on November 04, 2021, 11:07:23 AM
I will basically need the cover of an entire squadron when in a tank. OR 10 players in 20mm light flak half tracks HAHA!

Sounds like a right Groggy tank night (the 10 peeps with AA guns, that is).

Destraex


This server had me capturing flags and fighting AI tanks. Those tanks were amazing shots, one shot hit me telling me I was being attacked and the second killed me. This was from the line of trees past the road. Probably over 2km away. They were in Shermans.



Revenge


Drove for 15mins just to be able to destroy some enemy airfield assets. These AA guns are fearsome if they notice you.


Parked myself in an enemy aircraft prep bay for a rest after a long drive. :)


Forward Airfield assets



Hid in an Aircraft Hangar. Being Stalked by Russian tanks.


"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

demjansk1942

Cool pictures, I might have to get this one day,

Destraex

#59
      I am a little perturbed at how easy it seems to be in il2 to kill Tanks. I remembered everything I had read on ww2 suggesting that bombs rarely killed tanks and were generally just not accurate enough to do so. Recently I posted on the il2 forums about the size of the bombs needed to kill a tank because I thought that might be the issue. Now I think it just may be that the accuracy in this "simulator" for bombs is just not simulated enough? I am also actually wondering if il2 physics for weapons attacking tanks from the air is hugely more simplified than weapons on the ground. As in if you get a near miss and some force hits the tank it's an auto kill.

      Key take aways as to why Bombers were not used as tank killing weapons:
      *
Bombs - only 5% landed within 140m of the target
* Rockets - 89% within 100m but still needed a direct hit to kill a Tank (presumably as bombs did)
* Guns - 32 out of 100 bullets on target. The most accurate and therefore efficient weapon at the right calibre.[/li][/list]

So now that we have established that unless you are using a Gun armed specialised anti tank aircraft with a gun large enough to kill a tank, that rocket armed aircraft would be much more accurate than bombs and therefore the preferred tank killing weapon;



On a captured Panther that is static and painted so pilots could see it with no AA fire or other distractions like weather and dust or cover;

* Accuracy was .5% for rocket armed aircraft so much less for bomb armed aircraft
* Therefore 140 rockets would be needed for a 50% chance of a hit.
* Therefore statistically you need 18 Typhoons to fire on one tank to kill that tank.[/li][/list]



But the crew will be killed with any near misses right?

According to this video if the Crew did not bail and stayed with the Veterans inside they had a VERY good chance of surviving anything but a direct hit. Aside from this video a friend last night claimed that he had read of ww2 tanks being tipped upside down by blasts and still getting out afterwards no problem.

il2 Tank Crew has bombs killing me very accurately usually by aircraft that are below 100m high. Why their own blast did not kill them would be interesting to me. What was the safe recommended height for level bombing in a fighter bomber in ww2?

Another thing we apparently do not have data on that would be interesting would be about how effective dive bombing was against all of these other methods. It seems to be bundled in with bombing in general above. Given how hard it was for dive bombers in the pacific to hit a carrier, generally whole squadrons went in and only came away with one or two hits, I guess we can assume that the famed Stuka was not as good at killing tanks as one would think. I wonder what their height for dropping was supposed to be so that they did not get destroyed by the blast or were not able to pull out under.



One thing is clear about il2 and that is that morale for the aircraft and the tanker is not something covered by the game mechanics. Everybody wants to be a hero and believes they would be brave under fire. So our pixel air crew and tank crew do not suffer suppression and do not feel the pressure that real crews would under fire. In il2 we are all veteran crews, especially the AI. This makes a huge difference to accuracy. If I think about it, the tanks do get rocked when hit so that it takes a while to stabilise the gun again against other tanks, the aircraft. I do not know as I have not played them in years. I expect that if they get hit the effects will pull them off their aim right away. Do near misses by flak knock their aim around?



Another key factor would be the physics of the bomb drop. Do most servers have no wind, no physics based on the aircraft airframe affecting release according to airframe drift and bounce as they release? Instrumentation malfunction affects or even the bombs themselves not being of perfect construction at the factory.

How do we achieve the less than 0.5% direct hit ratio that is apparently realistic for bomb armed aircraft in game?

"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"