Fleet Commander: Nimitz Set-Up Board

[BanzaiCat]

Yeah, well...my wife gives me some leeway when she knows it's "business" related.

[Nefaro]

This review mentioned a notable disparity in land-based aircraft gameplay value, compared to carrier-based, due to them being damaged so much more quickly in priority (while carrier-based ones automatically regenerate).  :-\

[BanzaiCat]

See, I've not seen a rule that says that carrier air units automatically regenerate. It would make sense in a scenario that spans the entire year, but in a single year, carrier air losses I think should be permanent.

Dan answered a question on BGG that asked what happens to eliminated units - he says they're gone for good, never to return. It's not clear, though, if that means carrier air units as well, since they are somewhat generic compared to land based air untis.

[Mad Russian]

In actual fact it was the IJN carrier air units that were destroyed for good once lost and not the land based ones. That's historically backwards.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Staggerwing]

Good point. Irreplaceable talent.

[JudgeDredd]

I have read or watched somewhere where it mentioned carrier units are replaceable...in other words, when a carrier is about, they get their compliment of aircraft.

Quite aside from any design aspect put in by Dan, part of the reason for having it that way is that there are not enough carrier aircraft chits and so they are not assigned to the carriers throughout the game and therefore no way of tracking aircraft.

A house rule could be implemented to manually track aircraft with carriers so you could keep track of damaged or destroyed aircraft. Whether that's worth the effort is up to the individual.

Something that concerns me more than the aircraft thing is the movement of Japanese units. It seems ludicrous that a Japanese invasion force could be turning up at a beach with no carrier support. I was thinking about implementing my own house rule of 1 carrier being assigned to every movement until they have all been used, but decided against it at the moment...personally, I think I'll just play vanilla and see how it goes.

[BanzaiCat]

I dunno...the IJN carried out several invasions without the courtesy of escorting carriers. The game is of course by no means realistic, but it does a good job given its solitaire limitations.

[JudgeDredd]

I dunno...the IJN carried out several invasions without the courtesy of escorting carriers. The game is of course by no means realistic, but it does a good job given its solitaire limitations.

I didn't know that. I was thinking if I were to launch an invasion, I'd probably want some air cover.  :)

[BanzaiCat]

Oh yeah, of course. Thing is there's SO many damn Jap carriers in the game (CVs, CVEs, CVLs) that the odds are there will be one or two going in every direction. And if there's a large concentration of them, it will be quite a challenge, just like with, say the historical Midway battle.

[JudgeDredd]

Oh yeah, of course. Thing is there's SO many damn Jap carriers in the game (CVs, CVEs, CVLs) that the odds are there will be one or two going in every direction. And if there's a large concentration of them, it will be quite a challenge, just like with, say the historical Midway battle.

Yeah - true. I noticed the amount when I was setting up. Did they have that number historically?

I guess I can't really comment until I've got a few games under my belt. I have no idea how it actually plays out because I haven't actually played a game yet. A few games will give an idea of how good the random mechanics are.

I've never really been too much for much in the way of historical accuracy...as long as the game is playable (computer or board). I mean, I want it to have historical aspects in it but I'm not a nuts and bolts man.

Talking about nuts and bolts, here's a good video - it gives good info of some of the mechanics

[GJK]

I like the way that VG's Carrier handles intelligence levels and Japanese force composition as it is revealed through increased intel.  Some variation of that for Nimitz seems like it could be implemented and perhaps would be a better way to handle it other than just randomly scattering about the IJN based on a dozen dice rolls. 

[BanzaiCat]

I'm lucky enough to have a copy of Carrier, but I've yet to play it...

[GJK]

I'm lucky enough to have a copy of Carrier, but I've yet to play it...

Programmed instructions but still a steep learning curve that you'll have to relearn if you don't play it often enough but given the time and motivation to learn it, you won't want to play Nimitz if you're looking for an intense, operational level WW2 carrier game.

[JudgeDredd]

Ok - so even with the easy rules and the Nuts and Bolts video...I'm over thinking things again...

First - I have 4 aircraft and 1 Inf (Jap) on an island and they've been given a reinforce move...so they move via transport? If so, what if I have no transports left? What if there are US forces on there? Are they on the beach already (if so, I presume no transport is required)?

Second - I have moved a US invasion force to an island with 1 Jap AC and 1 Jap Inf - now there were no US forces on the island before I sent the invasion force there - so are the japanese inf/AC units eligible to be moved or are they considered in combat and therefore not able to move (bearing in mind the US forces haven't "landed" yet)

Lastly - if there are 2 US AC, 1 jap inf and 4 jap AC, I roll for the area and say I am told to move 3 ships, 2 inf and 2 AC, is the jap inf allowed to move (because there is no US inf present)?

Over thinking things I think.

I've ran out of movement counters and I haven't moved the Japan or East Asia units yet??

[BanzaiCat]

Ok - so even with the easy rules and the Nuts and Bolts video...I'm over thinking things again...

First - I have 4 aircraft and 1 Inf (Jap) on an island and they've been given a reinforce move...so they move via transport?

Check the rule with the one line at the bottom of page 9 and at the top left of page 10:

The last Japanese Infantry or Land-Based Aircraft in an Area will not move out of the Area, regardless of the Order rolled.

...

Move the Forces in order of: Ships, then Infantry, then Land-Based Aircraft.

So, to answer this specific question...in order to meet the Reinforce order, the Japs need to move 2 Ships, 1 Infantry, and 2 Land-Based Aircraft.
- There are no Ships, so this is ignored.
- Next in order are Infantry. The Order calls for one Infantry. As you have that unit present, you can move it. It is the last Infantry in that Area, but you still have Land-Based Aircraft, so it's okay to move the Infantry.
- Finally, you need to move 2 of your 4 Land-Based Aircraft, so you'd do that.

This leaves 2 Land-Based Aircraft in the Area. The rule specified above says the last Infantry or LBA will not leave the Area if it is not East Asia or Japan. Consider that in all other Areas the Japs have to have ONE unit present in order to hold it. Since there is more than 1 unit in this Area still, you'd need to roll another Order for that one extra LBA. Make sense?

If so, what if I have no transports left?

Doesn't matter. You cannot run out of Transports, period. Now, you CAN run out of counters representing Transports. How you take care of that is up to you; use a quid, or a pint, or whatever you UK people do (lol) to mark extra Transports if you need to.

I don't even bother with extra markers, to be honest. The rules state that the Transport marker is just a way for the player to conveniently remember what Infantry units are NOT on an island and are yet to land. If I run out of Transport markers I just set the Infantry aside and remember later. I haven't had issue with that yet.

What if there are US forces on there? Are they on the beach already (if so, I presume no transport is required)?

Okay, here goes:

The Transport is just a marker for you to use to indicate what Infantry units are awaiting landing on the target island. Nothing more. You shouldn't have more than one Transport in each Area. If you roll up all your orders and move Infantry from one area to, say, Iwo Jima, and then roll orders for another Area and also get Infantry moving to Iwo, well, then you have two Transports. I just use one Transport to show which Infantry needs to land or invade. Make sense?

When you're moving Infantry to an Area that the Japanese control, and there are NO US forces present...well, that's just a simple movement of forces. You do not move units to the Battle Board. So really, you don't need to mark those Infantry units with Transports...just a "Moved" marker instead.

Now, if you're moving Jap Infantry to an island where there are US forces present, that Transport serves as a handy way of reminding you 'hey, these Japs want to invade/reinforce their comrades already there (if any)." When you move a Transport with Infantry to the Battle Board (and again, there's really no reason to have more than one Transport present, because they're generic and infinite, technically), the Infantry is placed on the Transport, in the Coastal Area. Japanese Infantry on a Transport is placed on the Japanese side of the island, opposite the Japanese Beaches area. US Infantry is similarly placed on Transports on their side of the island, in the Coastal Area.

(Now, I'll say this: Transports CAN be sunk during a Battle, but that's not happened to me yet. They're numbered very high (4) and since Combat removes the lowest-numbered Ships first, it's rare to even get to that point. At the end of the first Battle Turn, when you get to the Infantry Advance part, the Infantry moves to their respective Beaches area and the Transports go away back to the pile to be used again. My interpretation of the rule means that one Transport technically carrying many Infantry can get targeted and blown away on the first Turn, which would mean all Japanese Infantry would be destroyed since they didn't get off the boat on time. I haven't had a problem with this yet, but I haven't had huge Jap infantry invasions yet either. I imagine it's possible but the odds are against it, so I'm good with this interpretation.)

Infantry that is already on the island is placed in Foxholes; they start the Battle there.

During the Combat process, you'll find the "Infantry Advance" part of the Combat's sequence of play. (The rule is on Page 18.) When you get there, first you move Infantry on Beaches to Foxholes (for both sides, but only to their own Foxholes). You then move Infantry on Transports to their corresponding Beach area. US Marines are the only exception to this last part - they get to move straight from Transports to Foxholes.

Japanese Infantry never occupies US Foxholes, and US Infantry never occupies Japanese Foxholes. Units pretty much slug it out during the Combat and if it ends before either side is wiped out, they're just moved back to the Campaign Map and they both occupy the Area.

Second - I have moved a US invasion force to an island with 1 Jap AC and 1 Jap Inf - now there were no US forces on the island before I sent the invasion force there - so are the japanese inf/AC units eligible to be moved or are they considered in combat and therefore not able to move (bearing in mind the US forces haven't "landed" yet)

Remember that the US moves BEFORE the Japanese on any given Turn, unless you choose to Scout a stack. So, if you move a US invasion force to an Area where the Japs have 1 LBA and 1 Infantry...check the rule under "Japanese Orders" on Page 9:

Japan cannot Move its Infantry out of Areas that also contain US Forces. Place a Moved counter on them. Do not roll an Order for these Forces...

So, by moving a US invasion fleet to that Area, you've locked down one of the Japanese units. Recall my answer to your first question, above - there is an order to moving Japanese units (Ships, then Infantry, then LBAs). However, the invading US forces mean the Japs cannot move their Infantry - so it's stuck there and cannot move. You can, however, roll an order for the one LBA present. (Which seems somewhat silly - in my mind that rule should be that ALL Japanese forces remain in place, or at least give a strong bias to them staying when rolling movement orders.)

Lastly - if there are 2 US AC, 1 jap inf and 4 jap AC, I roll for the area and say I am told to move 3 ships, 2 inf and 2 AC, is the jap inf allowed to move (because there is no US inf present)?

Again, recall the rule on Page 10. The order is, Ships first, then Infantry, and finally LBAs. However, there must be at least ONE Infantry OR LBA present in the Area, unless it's East Asia or Japan, which can move the very last units out. Other areas may not do that so the rule applies everywhere else.

- There are no Jap ships in the Area, so the 3 Ships order is ignored.
- There are two Infantry in the Area, and the order calls for 2 Inf to move, so normally, both would load up on transports. However, there are US forces present, so NONE of the Japanese Infantry units may move. Place Moved markers on the Japanese Infantry to remind you they must stay in place.
- Finally, the order calls for 2 LBAs to move. Since LBAs are not restrained by invading US forces (again, kind of odd, but that's what it says), and the order calls for 2 of the 4 present, you'd move 2 of them to satisfy the order.

This leaves 2 more LBAs. You'd have to roll orders again for them to see where they go, if anywhere.

Thing is about the US LBAs - if they're already on the island and not invading, then they start in the Airfields space on the Battle Map during Combat. Technically they are occupying the island. The rule on Page 9 says that Japan can't move Infantry out of an area that contains US Forces, so Forces means Ships, Infantry, OR LBAs. Doesn't matter what it is.

Over thinking things I think.

Hell, mate, that's the way of things innit? ;) You gotta ask the questions if you want to understand it.

I've ran out of movement counters and I haven't moved the Japan or East Asia units yet??

There should be enough Moved counters present to cover each Area on the Campaign Map. I think you're using a Moved counter for each Japanese force you're moving, so if you move Japanese units to one Area, and they all come from multiple Areas, just stack them under ONE Moved counter instead of having multiple Moved counters present. It'll be less cluttering and it doesn't matter, as long as you keep track of what moved to the area that way (only so you do not re-roll orders for units you've already moved).